Securing our borders
 

I watch a lot of CNN on my cable TV here, and Lou Dobbs is always raving on about the border protection issue. In one interview, the interviewee was asked how the problem should be addressed/resolved.. the interviewee (of Mexican background I think) replied that it is a human issue which needs to be dealt with by addressing issues in both countries and the human aspect. Lou Dobbs retorted: "This is not a human issue - it's an American issue!"

I don't think he realized how bad that sounded.. :( But I know that not everyone is as hot-headed as he.

You know it's ashame more people won't get this but Lux: "Please Explain" :laugh:

Hehe it's ashame they don't get it because she represents essentially what I see as the Americans are trying to do and yet over here she waas blasted and I believe ended up in Gaol for her views.

Blah Blah Blah - we are such the bad guy it is a wonder anyone takes our aid (insignificant in percentage that it may be :rolleyes: ) at all. I mean you would think all these other countries would just refuse our help because we are such jerks :rolleyes: Funny thing is they do not, so I guess we are not that bad :rolleyes:

Yet, the elitist (ironic no) America bashing continues.

But, to the point, America must secure her borders. The 9/11 hijackers got in through loopholes and the person who was going to bomb LAX on Y2K was caught rather by chance at a border. Moreover, who knows how many others have gotten in for the sole reason to plan harm to us. So, I say, they can be tightened up. I also say that tightening will not exclude anyone who can demonstrate they are here legitimately.

Tell that to the people of Rwanda. :D

Are you still high :wavey:

Tell that to the Tsunami victims and every other person the US has helped over the last few decades. Tell that Europe which without our help and lives they would be saluting to some faction of Hitler. Tell that to the African nations we help feed.

My point is this, lest you try to spin it :wavey: --- I and most know the US has done bad things, but we have done a whole lot of good as well and no one seems to want to talk about that. Its all the US is a bad nation blah blah blah - that tends to make me pissed :cool:

Here is a cool site http://www.globalissues.org/TradeRelated/Debt/USAid.asp

Plus, you have to consider the private donations as well and they are plenty.

But, all of that does not matter I guess because all anyone around here ever does is comment on horrible we are :rolleyes:

Word Jason.
 

:xoxo: :xoxo: :xoxo: :xoxo: :xoxo:

We should start helping those on the streets of our country before we start dishing out the dough to others. Just my two cents. :o

I agree for the most part, though it is hard to sit by and watch things happen elsewhere. I do think, however, that if we stopped the corporate welfare, the $215 hammers, and the free flow of cash to able bodied people - we would have enough money to educate people who need it for the workplace and provide health care to allow people to work. But, hey - no one ever asked me :cool:

Curtis..
 

What utter ****. We certainly sat by fine while genocide was occurring in Sudan and Rwanda, along with the UN and many other nations. If people want to talk about how wonderful this country is, fine. It is a great country when it does great things. But let's not delude ourselves as to why this country of ours does these good deeds or turn a blind eye to this country's continued ignoring of genocide and human rights violations. We look out for our best interests in the end.

blah blah blah - we are all ingrates who need to be killed for our apathy :rolleyes:

Interestingly, when the US acts, people get pissed off. When we do not act, people get pissed off. So, we might as well do whatever we want and there is no pleasing everyone :cool: If we went into Darfur right now or even at the beginning, I am sure you would find some reason to hate Bush for it even if we did a great job. Thus, the state of political commentary.

I mean you, and others, seem to rejoice on the bad acts and never bring up the good ones. Just an observation :shrug:

Right.

As if we're the only country who has ever done ****ty things...:shrug:


I agree too....

I do think more needs to be done for our own people- but I also think people need to start doing more for themselves...AND I think there are a lot of people doing great things for the people of this country...it's not enough - but I don't know that it will ever be enough...

There's no other country with as much power and force as ours, we're the only superpower. To compare us with other countries in that context is inane. When we do something, it affects the world.

I agree. I think our current welfare system stifles overall (certainly not in every case - look at Oprah) the drive to do better. I think it also captures people in it and by its design does not allow them to better themselves by getting a part time job. Mary knows way more than I about this, but people finally get a job and then they are cut off after a period of time and they cannot find a place to live, etc. So, they go back into the welfare system. It needs a huge overhaul and IMO it needs to focus not on getting people prematurely off of the rolls, but getting them off forever. Yet, it is a political poison pill if you tinker with it too much because in the transition, people will be effected and those people have nothing to put out as a buffer.

and more times than not it affects it in a good way :wavey:

Interestingly, and in an attempt to drive your blood pressure through the roof :wavey: - couldn't it be argued that the invasion of Iraq was an attempt by the US to stop the genocide there? Certainly SH was doing the same types of things as other places? I get that W and the bozos lied about it and are horrible people, but assuming as history demonstrates that resistence would occur anywhere we asserted our peacekeeping, Iraq from that point of view was a good thing :shrug: I am not saying we should have gone or the reasons we went were anything but lies. I am just saying that hopefully, with the US' help, genocide will no longer occur in Iraq, though that possible instance does not excuse the lies since 1992.

That's why I was saying we should have been in Darfur immediately, right? Gimme a break. We should have been in there just as we should have been in Rwanda. But we had nothing to gain, so we didn't.

If that's what you think, fine. Forgive me if I don't have a flag hanging from my window or a yellow ribbon plastered to the ass of my car. I'm not that dumb that I'll just make a blanket stement of "America is a great country." Such a statement is absurd.

I am just saying you always talk about the bad things. You never say, "hey that was a good thing," which is hardly on the level of false intent with a plastic flag :shrug: - which I would never accuse you of :wavey:

Okay - but America IS a great country :shrug:

I'm not saying it's the greatest - but many here do get opportunities etc that one would not get elsewhere :shrug:

And I hate this argument - but some of the things you say do beg the question - then why stay here?

if it's such an atrocious place - then why not go elsewhere?

I get that the US has done bad things - but I maintain that other countries have as well...regardless of superpower status....atrocities are atrocities...

Tell that to the millions upon millions who have died because we didn't give a ****. I'm certainly not suggesting that we could prevent everything, but a little bit of effort is in order.

You mean the genocide in Iraq that our country helped to perpetrate by telling the Iraqi's to rise up and rebel? Where were we when they listened to us and did, in fact, rise up and rebel? We were nowhere to be found.

Well that, but we were not alone and it occured before then. AND - we certainly are there now :wavey:

I am not saying we have not been bad. I am just saying that we have helped far more than we have not. A good example is Europe in WWI and Europe and Asia in WWII. Another good example is the aid we current give South America and Africa. Yet, you never ever mention that. It is always a bash on the bad stuff. I know you know about the good stuff. I just think it would not kill ya to mention it istead of the non-stop America bashing :shrug:
Both exist and I suggest the good we do far outweighs the bad.

That's your opinion. My opinion is that America is a great country when it does great things.

Yeah, and just look at the people that inhabit this country. They take everything for granted and it's revolting. I'd like to see them live in mud huts in Africa for three days and then tell me how horrible their lives are.

Don't put words in my mouth, I never called this country atrocious. ;)

With respect - you are grossly generalizing all Americans. I know lots of people from all walks of life who take nothing for granted.

So let's hear about those great thing!!!!! :)

In the end, I am an optimist, which is contrary around here most of the time :laugh:

While you may encounter those types of people, to say that they are the majority of this country is absurd, imo. The people of this country take so many things for granted that it's kind of funny. I bet half of them don't even realize what a luxury it is to have supermarkets; to them, it's just there. They can walk into a store and come out with 87 different sodas, all the meat and produce they want, and whatever else their heart desires. I doubt any of them take the time to think of how incredibly lucky they are to have such a thing. They're so used to it that they don't pay it any mind. And then they get pissed if they don't have a certain type of fish or cheese in stock.

I respectfully disagree. I think it is possible to realize how good you have it AND simultaneously "get pissed if they don't have a certain type of fish or cheese in stock" :shrug: I mean who here has not been thankful for all of their blessings and at the same time become impatient while waiting in line, etc. Thus, I do not think equating the two in any way is a genuine comparison.

That makes two of us. :woohoo:

Speaking of Rwanda, did you see Hotel Rwanda yet, Amber? Great movie. :nod:

Right - I literally count my blessings every night and everyday I am SO thankful for EVERYTHING I have...

On the flip side I also try very hard not to be attached to my material possesions - because that is not the most importatnt thing to me...if I lost all I owned it wouldn't be the end of the world ya know?

BUT I also know there are people who take things for granted...but there will always be people like that....I guess lately I'm taking more of the approach of trying to improve myself and not worrying to much about those around me who may have their heads up their asses.....

I do like to help others though who aren't as fortunate as I have been....

But I think there are a lot of Americans who are SO thankful for what they have....

BUT as Jason said that doesn't mean that I don't get annoyed when I can't find the cereal I like or the milk I like somewhere - it's a minor inconvenience - not the end of the world....I realize there are people living in boxes in the dessert who have no milk or cereal - but yeah I think I can be a conscious human being who is thankful for what I have etc...while still sometimes being annoyed at life's inconveniences :shrug:

I'm mainly struck by one of (I think) your points, which is also what I think, and that "America" is far more likely to intervene in a good way if our interests are threatened, or people are threatened in an area where we have lots of interests. Not saying we are more bad than good, or that we don't do good things, but I think we are far more likely to do so if it benefits us. Which of course, leaves countries we don't care about kinda f****d, - As a country, we have also ignored many heinous things that we could have done something about. :shrug: JMO.

Sheebus
 

Totally agree, not that I want to get heavily involved in this :shocked: I wouldn't bash the US for this kind of thing - the UK are every bit as guilty (both countries have strangely similar ideas lately :rolleyes: )

I would also say that we are still ignoring many heinous things that we could do something about - e.g. Zimbabwe, Burma... :distress: but then of course, what have those countries got to offer us?

Interestingly, for the Americans who go to Church, they are reminded every Sunday that they are to be thankful for what they have and to share their good fortune. I suggest the numbers indicate many many Americans share in one way or another. For example, leaving change in the boxes at various stores, giving old clothing and other items, checks to charities, etc. I think when people do thin, it reminds them of how good they have it. Are there people are totally self-centered - probably. But, I think they are outnumbered by people who give away their things because they know otheres are less fortunate. Do they give until it hurts? Well that is not really the point and that also is a subjective standard I would never want applied against me :cool:

But, back to the topic at hand. How do we secure our borders? It is not an easy task considering the land borders :eek:

So, I should have to move simply because I don't like a lot of the things our government turns a blind eye to? Gawd, I'd be petrified to see exactly where this country would be today if it weren't for people who disliked what our government did and then tried to change it. It wouldn't be pretty.

And just because horrible things have been done everywhere, it doesn't excuse the bad things we've done or somehow make them any less significant.

Why do they have to come here to experience it when they're already experiencing the effects of our actions?