The Girls Light Em Up on Unreleased Versions
 

From Nicksfix Backup Singers Q&A

Hi Lori! Thank you soooo much for taking time to answer our questions. Here's mine. We all know how Stevie feels about this but you and Sharon haven't really put in your two bits. How do you feel about all the demos and "unfinished" songs being out on the internet for fans to download and have? Do you think anything should be done about it or should they be able to have them to enjoy? I for one LOVE "Julia" and one called "Prittiest Girl in the World" and hope that they make it onto an album soon!!!

Lori's answer:

Hi "Desrtangl"! (That's one of my favorite songs!) Welllll..... you want to know my feelings? You may not like what I have to say, but here goes..... I think it is sinful that people have "stolen" Stevie's unfinished/unreleased songs. If there were something that could be done about it, I would say, ABSOLUTELY... do it!!!! That having been said... I will try to explain: All of Stevie's songs are, well, STEVIE'S... and nobody has a right to them except for Stevie. They are personal, and private... until she is ready to share them with the world. Listen... there were reasons why those songs were not put on records previously. In alot of cases it was because the song was not finished, or had not been recorded and/or represented the way Stevie meant for them to be. "Julia" (one of my favorite unreleased songs) is a good example of a song that is quite personal to Stevie, and wasn't done quite the way she wanted. We always intended to re-do it, but for various reasons, it hasn't happened yet. Now that people have made these songs available everyone, it's possible she may never do them again, even the right way, which is sad. I think if these people thought about it, they wouldn't like it if someone read their diaries, without their permission... it's the same thing.



Hi Sharon ,My question is a a hard one I bet ..Do you think Stevie Knows that her Demos and other unfinished works have been sold and traded within her fan base? There all great and I want to tell you there is a outtake of you singing Leather and Lace, just you on vocal and it must be the best version I have ever heard! Take care!

Sharon's answer:

Hi Angie,
Stevie does know that her demos and other unfinished works have been sold and traded as "bootlegs". As you can read on her "Ask Stevie" page here on the Nicks Fix site, in her own words, "It greatly upsets me that people came into my life and stole my tapes". Of course it upsets me greatly as well, that this would happen to Stevie. As interesting as it might be to the fans to hear these recordings, it is still a violation of Stevie's privacy. Please consider that it would be much more appropriate to leave the decisions about circulating versions of a "work in progress" to the artist.

As concerns your comments about my vocal on "Leather and Lace", I only recently found out that there was a version of me singing the song going around. In this case, I was singing what is called a "guide vocal" for a Stevie recording session, so that the musicians would know where the lead vocal parts would be going while they were learning the song and working on the arrangement. This would be similar to a stand-in reading a part for a lead actor on a movie set, to give the other actors and camera men a chance to work out their parts and ideas for the actual filming. Please keep in mind, if this had been intended for public release, an entirely different process would have been used in order to get the best possible performance. Anyway, I'm glad that you enjoy Stevie's music so much, and thanks for your kind words about my vocal.

It's pretty clear now just what that whole camp thinks of all the demos leaking. I can't say it's much of a surprise. Don't most pop singers & bands hate it when their demos leak?

Someone should ask Sharon about why the "official people" allegedly didn't respond to the announcement about the Modern storage facility auction. Did they think it was all a joke? or that Stevie's fans didn't want to get their hands on all of it?

To be a rock star, you should have to pass the class on What Is a Fan 101. Fleetwood Macsters just seem so naive & so stupid, although I fully appreciate their disgust over the demo issue. If I were in their shoes, I wouldn't want my unfinished songs leaked, either, although I doubt I'd mind my concerts being recorded.

I agree... I probably wouldn't be too happy either if something I did that wasn't finished was taken or found and then distributed... But. On the other hand... It in a way has kept alot of us going through the lean years when we thought it was over to the point that we may not be around today had this stuff not surfaced.

Not to mention, the tapes that were stolen contained how many songs? 10? We've seen many, many more since then. Stevie herself has circulated her unfinished works at times. Why else would she go looking for a piano demo of Rhiannon to put on her box set?
While I can understand anger at "the tapes" being stolen, I think we're talking about a lot more material than "the tapes." :shrug: It had to come from somewhere.
Besides, some of them are quite brilliant.
Stevie didn't like the end result Julia? :confused: It's not that different from that first version she recorded with Shelley Yakus.
Sometimes she is surrounded by too much love. :)

I truly stuggled with the demo issue after she said she resented people having them. But, I think that maybe if she knew the absolute JOY songs like Julia, The Dealer, Space Needle, The Tower, POTU, etc. provided me and I am very sure many, many others - she maybe would reconsider her position. I also think she has aquired many fans that way. I know one I played The Tower and POTU for that went to three of the TISL concerts and had no intention of going to those concerts prior to hearing those two. So, maybe if she knew that, she might not be as prone not to record these songs, be so angry, etc. In the end though, they are her songs and it is her right - period. I just think maybe the people around her do not let her know how much people really like those old demos and love her work. Also, witnessing the transformation from start to finish, which in some cases is 30 years, is beguiling to me and many others. I know we are taking the choice from her and that is wrong. I just wanted to point out that none that I know download them with derision. In fact, it usually is with glee and excitement because it is further insight into one of the greatest performers and songwriter of their time - I certainly feel this way. Anyway, that is my $0.02 offered in a friendly way and with no disrespect to Stevie :cool:

My 2 pennies
 

When? What songs? According to who? Do you just mean Enchanted Rhiannon, or are you talking about other material too? You've peaked my curiousity.

According to her in interviews for the release of the Enchanted Box Set.

I completely respect what Sharon and Lori had to say and largely agree with them. But, for me, it's just too tempting knowing these things are floating around and that me refusing to acquire them will not put and end to them floating around, especially since I never exchange money (is that just my way of freeing myself of guilt?! :angel: ). At least I feel like most of the people who are trading (as opposed to buying) care enough about that artist to not exchange money, therefore they are not likely to judge them harshly by their unfinished works. It does upset me to see Lori compare it to someone stealing your diary. But I do have a show from the TISL tour where Stevie displays a sense of humor on the issue. Before either "Sorceror" or "Planets" she says something like, "You've all probably heard it on some bootleg already!" with humor in her voice.

Well, now I want to hear their response to a question asking how they feel about people booting live shows. Anyone already asked?

Given the choice, I'm sure Stevie would rather they had never leaked in the first place, but since the barn door was left open and the horses escaped years ago, she's probably come to terms with it.

One of those things in life that you're not happy it happened, but that you deal with because you know there's no changing it now.

Something I've wondered for a while, is how Lindsey felt/feels about his entire 'Gift Of Screws' project leaking out, long before he was ready for the tracks to be heard.

As a rabid fan who can never get enough new music from Fleetwood Mac, et al., I do download the demos and outtakes when they pop up... but I do so with the complete intention of purchasing them if they should ever be made available through legitimate channels.

I just find it laughable when fans grumble that Stevie used an "old song" on one of her new albums, when, by all rights, we never should have heard those songs in the first place.

demos...
 

I agree about Lindsey. The whole GoS thing was sad. Of course I grabbed it as soon as it was available but I hated how some fans then later complained when his songs sounded different on the SYW album. (commonly Stevie was to blame as if Lindsey was obligated to release the tracks exactly as the boots were.)
As far as Stevie's boots..there have been too many leaks over the years. Honestly, the stolen tapes was a small part of this whole fiasco. There has to be someone continually leaking stuff for things like Thrown Down, Space Needle, My Heart, etc to keep being released. That is what is baffling to me. They claim they are so angry and it is so wrong and an invasion of privacy but why does it keep happening year after year? Plug up the holes if it bothers you that much.

I remember at one of the TISl shows I went to she said something before Planets..."I know many of you have heard this a long time ago and that is great..."...I guess she has just accepted it.

I don't really collect demos, but the few demos that I do have (My Heart, Space Needle, Christian, ummm that is it) are great and I don't feel bad about listening to them b/c it makes me love Stevie even more and I've paid ridiculous ticket prices and purchased every single album she has put out. So in my opinion, she owes me one!

However, I don't have that many demos because I prefer to just wait and get the final version. If I had heard the Not Make Believe demo before I got the SYW collectors edition, then the song would not be very special, now would it?

I don't think she is upset that people listen to her demos. I think she is upset that people stole them and leaked them out. But what is done is done so she has to accept the fact that we've heard them and we love them! :xoxo:

Does the camp realize that its mainly only us geeky fans that download the demos? We are the same geeks that will buy anything and everything she puts out commercially anyway. So no money is lost.

I believe that the whole selling/buying bootlegs is obsolete now anyway. Everyone and their brother has a cd burner now and can download music. Back in the 90s, 80s we might have bought bootlegs bc we didnt have the means at the time to trade them. I never bought any. I wonder if Stevie knows the days of selling her stuff illegally are over?

Miss Nicks wouldn't have the rabid fan base she currently has if it wasn't for those demos and unreleased songs. She should be grateful that someone leaked 'em. I know if I was a famous musician or just getting my feet on the gorund int he music industry, I'd circulate my own demos and other such ****. It would be too rewarding in terms of fan loyalty not to.

Same here!! someone should ask that.... very curious as to what their response would be..

I grumble because I don't want to hear songs that were written years ago, I want current work. Even if it results in sludge like That Made Me Stronger. :D

The Stevie Nicks camp leaks them on purpose because they know how wild her fanbase is about them and it keeps them interested. I've thought so for years.

ugh.. don't get me started on that song :rolleyes:

I think you are on the money with that statement. Aside from the Masters which we know came from a clearing out of the Modern Records warehouse when the label folded... I always thought that someone close to her was leaking some of the demos... and doing it on purpose... I mean it's quite brilliant if you think about it, and if it's true... It's kept me interested for years - not by continually listening to them, but continually trying to get them knowing they exsist.!

Just look at the masters, though. They were alerted about them and did nothing. It's not like they didn't think the fans would get them and circulate them. Those demos and bootlegs are very responsible for giving her such a rabid fan base, who knows where she'd be right now without them. :nod:

That's true... But possibly they weren't given all the information to make a proper choice... and maybe the person(s) alerting them that they were going up for auction didn't realize what was all there to begin with so that they could make the argument that she HAD to get these back or else. And wasn't Stevie's camp asked to buy them back or something and they refused saying they had copies of their own? I don't know.. that whole thing was really weird, but goes to show what can happen.

I've seen an interview (somewhere) where she says something about "Gold and Braid" being one of the songs originally stolen & that it ended up being OK because people got to hear the song since it was booted from Bella Donna. Why else would she have performed it in concert?

As far as having copies of unreleased songs & demos -- I never buy them. But I WOULD buy them, from HER, if she released them. Say, if there were limited-edition discs that were offered to fans after the release of each album, containing that album's demos, outtakes, etc. Or if she put together a boxed set, as I've suggested via The Nicksfix about 10 times now. Strangely, my question never gets answered. :shrug: :laugh:

NOTE: I was gonna say the limited-edition discs/boxed sets should be offered through The Nicksfix or through a *REAL* SN Fan Club, but I really wouldn't want either of those parties involved. *sigh*

Right, but his point is, if Stevie was concerned about those masters getting into the hands of the fans, she could have re-obtained them just to keep them from being circulated, regardless of whether or not she had her own safety copies elsewhere. The fact that she didn't suggests she wasn't all that worried about people hearing them. If I remember correctly, the whole auction only went for a few thousand dollars. A lot for us, but spare change for Stevie or the record/management company protecting her interests. Perhaps, as you say, the person who originally sold them didn't give cough up all the info or go to great lengths to contact Stevie and her camp, but several fans also tried contacting Stevie through her management and various other means, including John Kinney. At that point all the info was there on the auction page. The responses all seemed to be along the lines of 'Yeah, we know. Thanks.' Maybe there's something we don't know or perhaps Stevie was never told about it afterall. If she was, the idea that she's very upset over her unfinished material being passed around doesn't really hold water, though. That, or she simply underestimated her fan community and never imagined people would actually go to the trouble of getting all those old reels baked, transferred, and out into the light of day.

Agreed. And creating additional drama by speaking so strongly against such practices, yet not following up with any action to stop what's out there... dare I say it? You can all blame me if it all suddenly dries up. :eek:


Laura

I would agree with you... but come on... why would someone intentionally leak an absolute turd like "Lily Girl"? :eek:

Why would someone intentionally record and officially release That Made Me Stronger? :laugh:

if they're so upset that the demos are being passed around, why don't they try and cut in on it. i've long thought that every band should boot their own shows and post them on their website for download for... $5 maybe? even if they charged $1 per download, can you imagine? doesn't MAC boot them all anyways? it would only generate money as the only cost to the band would be upoading that file and covering bandwidth. you know we'd all spend $1 on a show. i understand that not every show is spectacular in quality, but who cares? hey FM, stop being self-conscious and make some cash... same thing could go with the demos. clean up the static and post it.

anyone remember when pearl jam booted their tour and then sold them, real cds, nothing fabulous, but how cool was it to have that souvenir.

By now, if she's underestimating her fans, she's a dunce. :laugh: She has fans that dress up as her and follow her around on tour, fans that make their living off of her (I'm lookin' at you, Babs), fans that bring her Tiffany lamps at shows, and once had a fan that thought her magical powers could cure him of his homosexuality. Transferring master reels that she abandoned and trading them around is the very least she should expect!

My brother is or was into Metallica and on I think it was their last tour... They have this website strickly for downloading live shows. The whole tour was recorded and the whole tour was up for download... Think the cost was $10 bucks a show... you had the option of wav or mp3 download... Not sure, but I think it came with artwork too.... And you could have the show you were at about 2-3 days after. There's a few sites/bands that do it now... I think Kiss is another.

Only problem really is that one person will buy or a group of people will buy and 50 people will be copied... so they wouldn't make all that much.

It was on Metallica's official site that you could download shows. I downloaded about 20.

How I wish Stevie/FM would do that. That will never happen though. Nevah! :rolleyes:

Because it's a great song!

The songs that she told the Cleveland radio station were stolen were the songs somebody bootlegged on vinyl (Almanac) in 1979: Without You, Cathouse Blues, Goldfish & Ladybug, Sorcerer, Nomad, Watchdevil, etc.

I really agree with your points here. I have to say, I felt like crap after I read Sharon and Lori's answers. And I knew what they were going to say (in fact, I sent questions to both of them about the demos and leaks, too). I would love to actually be able to sit down and explain to Stevie why we love these demos so much, and how for many of us, they are our favourite songs - maybe because we know we are a select little group that is lucky enough to know them. I don't know. I've always wondered, if I was ever so lucky and honoured to meet Stevie, would I have the guts to bring it up? I don't know. I would love to tell her why some of them mean so much to me (two in particular), but I can understand her feeling of having her privacy violated. (sigh - still torn) I'm somewhat cheered by the Stevie quote Kelly posted, which seemed to sound like Stevie knows they're out there and has come to accept it.

A seperate question... do most other artists have this many demos and outtakes out there (not live shows)? I've never had any interest in checking out other atrists' fan sites. But are Stevie and Fleetwood Mac so unique? And if so - WHY??? That is the question that would interest me. Are Stevie/Lindsey/Fleetwood Mac fans so very different in their love and need for material?

It depends on the artist, really. A lot of the artists and bands that are my favorites have a good amount of demos/outtakes and general bootlegs out there, like David Bowie, Franz Ferdinand, Blondie, Bob Dylan, etc. From what I've seen, I'd say Stevie/Mac fans are pretty darn casual in terms of bootlegs when compared to Bowie fans. They are an obsessive lot, those ones.

I've wondered a lot about the sources of these leaks, too. I can tell you that Thrown Down (WOS) and My Heart came from some kind of German acetate version of TISL that was pressed before the album actually came out. The CD -- which as I understand it functioned as sort of preview for record company execs, producers and Stevie herself -- then got into fans' hands.

And we know the master reels came from the Modern warehouse.

But it perplexes me where Space Needle and other recent demos come from. The only thing I can figure is that Stevie or one of her associates makes CDs of the songs to give to her producers or session musicians when she's working on an album. Those CDs then somehow get out into the world. But I'd love to know the exact backstory. Maybe SaraRhiannon or some other expert could shed some light?

You grumble like you think it's your job. :laugh:
As someone who complains almost endlessly about her new songs, I would think you'd be happy when she includes some tracks from the time-period that you feel produced her best writing.

I've always enjoyed the mix of old and new on each album. Stevie has some brilliant songs in her vaulted catalog, and I think they deserve to see the light of the day anytime she's ready for them to.

Nope, I don't want the good ones to be ruined by her current voice. Write some new stuff. And put Space Needle on an album because I said so.

Would you say that when you want something, you get it? :laugh:

So far, I've loved every new recording of an old demo or outtake far better than the original version.

My only disappointment regarding any of them, is how badly I missed Lindsey's harmony vocal on "Candlebright."
Oh, and I do miss some of the vocal layering on "Running Through The Garden"... but, at the same time, I think they were smart to tighten it up, as the outtake version gets really sloppy towards the end.

Aw, I'm far from an expert! I really don't know how these things get leaked. The TISL demos first surfaced on eBay in 2001. They were two separate CD's:

-Trouble in Shangri-La demos/outtakes 6-15-99: Candlebright (Sheryl Crow rough mix 5-27-99), Sorcerer (Sheryl Crow rough mix 5-27-99), Thrown Down #1, Thrown Down #2, Space Needle, Love Is (solo demo), Bombay Sapphires (solo demo), Not Make Believe, Trouble in Shangri-La (demo), Have No Heart, Planets of the Universe (5-23-99)

-Trouble in Shangri-La demos/outtakes 8-4-99: Planets of the Universe (8-2-99), Annabel Lee, Fall From Grace (demo), Love Changes (demo), That Made Me Stronger (demo)

I bought the first one, and I believe Daniel (stevienicks.info) bought the other one.

Last year, some people got an email from a mystery person who wanted to share "Chanel, Chanel" through a Yahoo group. I don't know who he was, or how he chose the people he emailed. He did send the song to me, and allowed me to post it for download. He also claimed to have a long rehearsal version of "Trouble in Shangri-La" that he was planning on sending, but he never did. The Yahoo group was deleted, and I never heard from him again.

Years ago, a woman contacted me for a trade, saying she had some stuff that she knew I didn't have. She was right, and they were songs that weren't yet in circulation (Night Gallery, Rock a Bye Baby, an alternate version of Impossible Task, and a clear version of Ooh Baby). She said that she used to work for Paul Fishkin, so I figured that's how she got her hands on the demos. Ever since then, I've assumed that a lot of the unreleased stuff is leaked (either purposely or accidentally) by people associated with Stevie, or by people who have access to those people. It just makes the most sense.