Lindsey, Chris & Stevie....harmonies & other ??
 

Am I the one who has ever wondered how Chris, Lindsey and Stevie decided who would sing on each other's songs?

I can't help but notice how prominently Lindsey voice appears on many of Chris's and Stevie's songs, yet, both Chris and Stevie's vocals are noticeably absent from Lindsey's songs. (*Note* I'm talking about the released albums but I'm excluding The Dance and SYW albums. I'm also not talking about any live performances).

For instance, Don't Stop. I'm just curious as to who made the decision that both Christine and Lindsey would sing on this song. There's nothing wrong with it and I think it's great and all, but for a long time I never thought Christine's voice was very noticeable on that song. She and Lindsey have such similar voices that when she started singing her verse it kind of just blended with Lindseys. You can't even hear Stevie at all.

Then there's Think About Me and Hold Me. I could almost say that Lindsey's voice is more prominent than Christines' on both songs. You can't even hear Stevie on either of the songs except for quietly in Think About Me during the chorus. In the demo version of Think About Me, you can't even hear Christine. It's mainly Lindsey. Am I the only one that thinks this is strange?

Why do you think the songs are this way? Do you think this was fair? I've tried to come up with some possible explanations -
1) Lindsey was the producer so he always put his voice on songs that he wanted - ie he used this position to his advantage.
2) Lindsey and Chris just sang better harmony - this is true in a way. But I don't think anything would have been lost by adding Stevie's harmony in there as well.
3) Stevie wasn't around so they didn't include her - I don't think this is a good excuse because besides Tango, I think Stevie was pretty much always around or readily available.
4) Lindsey did this to punish Stevie - Simply put, he was jealous of all the attention she was receiving so being the producer he tried to exclude her as much as possible.
5) Both Lindsey and Christine worked so well together that they sort of just unconsciously excluded Stevie from their songs and/or made decisions to sing on each other's songs.
6) Stevie didn't really have a say in anything. Lindsey and/or Lindsey & Chris just told her what to do and she went along with what they said because she lacked support in the band.

This is also true with Stevie's songs. For instance, you can readily hear Chris and Lindsey's vocals on BC, Gypsy and then you have the duets - I Don't Wanna Know, which I think you can hear Lindsey's voice much better than Stevie's too. I also noticed that after Lindsey left I can hear Stevie's voice much more on Christine's songs.

But, I can honestly say I can't think of a single Lindsey song where I can noticeably hear Stevie or Christine. I haven't listened with earphones in a long time so I can't say whether you can hear them quietly in the background at all.

Anyway, I didn't post this because I wanted to start a Lindsey vs. Stevie vs Chris argument. (So let's try not to go there). I'm also not trying to bash Lindsey in any way - those of you who have read my posts know I'm a huge Lindsey fan.

I'm just curious as to what everyone thinks about this because it is something that I've always wondered about ???

You sound very sure, Ali, but I'm not so sure. I think the extent of Stevie's participation in albums like "Rumours," "Tusk" & "Mirage" hasn't really been settled. Have you ever been in a recording studio while anal-retentives worked on songs? It's enough to make you want to chew glass. If I were Stevie & I didn't play an instrument well enough to lay down any tracks in the studio, there's no way in hell I would stick around in a studio all day for weeks & months on end. That goes beyond boredom into the realm of masochism.

There's a revealing comment Lindsey made to BAM magazine in the January 30, 1981, issue about the making of "Tusk":

Did you see that article in US that quoted Stevie as saying that doing the album was like being held hostage in Iran with Lindsey as the Ayatollah? That wasn’t the feeling there at all! I mean, she wasn’t even there most of the time. She’d come in to do her song once a week and that would be it.
I can believe that something like this might have happened once or twice over the years, but to suggest that it was a regular occurrence album after album is to utterly demolish any credibility & professionalism that Lindsey or Fleetwood Mac ever might have had. I have no doubt that some fans do believe this to be the case, but I think it speaks more about them than about the working conditions of the band.
"Second Hand News"?
Most of the time, it may have just boiled down to what I call After-Hours Syndrome. Lindsey probably spent quite a bit more time navel-gazing in studios than any of the others. My hunch is that a lot of tracking -- both vocal & instrumental -- not to mention sound editing was done by him when the others weren't around.

I've noticed this too. Don't really know what to think of it, though.

I've also wondered about Stevie's layered harmonies with herself - who decided to do that? I personally love it when I hear her sing over her own voice (for example, "I wait for you to say, just go" from BC) but was it LB who thought it would sound best? Or does Stevie just like the sound of her own voice better than theirs (JK!)

Yes, even so I don't think it was at all like Tango where she was half way around the world. I think she was readily available. We'll just agree to disagree, I guess :) As far as Mirage - I would have thought she was around for the French Villa recording. But then, I read somewhere that they were there for three months and only worked for a few weeks or something like that. The rest of the time was taken up with BSing and partying.

Duh. Forgot about that one. Besides SHN - any others?

I agree. I think is probably the most plausible explanation. However, I wonder if he even tried to include the others - or if he just finished things and then said, "that's it."

Stevie on Lindsey's tracks?
All of Buckingham-Nicks, Monday Morning, World Turning, Go Your Own Way, The Ledge, I Know I'm Not Wrong, Steal Your Heart Away, What's the World Coming To, Peacekeeper, Say Goodbye.... I know I'm missing many more. So, yeah, I hear Stevie on many of Lindsey's songs. :nod:

I DO agree that sometimes Lindsey's and Christine's voices blend together, especially on Don't Stop, but I don't think they harmonize better than Stevie and Lindsey. Personal taste. I think those two were born to sing together.

And David, I think, makes a really good point here:
John has also spoken of the mind-numbing boredom; I think he escaped to his boat whenever possible!

So I guess to poor Stevie who didn't play an instrument, it got really nuts waiting around doing nothing! What a process, I can only imagine.

Wonder how many times Chris had to play a part on keyboards or Lindsey on guitar, etc...

Must drive you crazy sometimes I'm sure.

I've noticed this for a very long time, but didn't want to bring it up because i figured it would start another war. I just never understood why you could hear Lindsey on almost every song, but Chris and Stevie are noticeably not on almost every song. Now, of course it might not be such a great idea to have total three part harmony on every song. The thing that gets to me is that you very, VERY rarely hear Christine singing with Stevie and vice versa. They have little snippets in some of the other's songs, but they don't have even one song I don't think that is like a duet. Really, the only reason I can think of that wouldn't condemn any of the members is that, perhaps, Lindsey is on more songs because he was the only guy to throw in that sort of "masculine" voice (and I put masculine in "s because his voice is rather high for a guy). But since there were two girls, if you really only want one harmony on a song, you have to choose between the two, hence they get half the time Lindsey would get. But considering this IS Fleetwood Mac, I think there might be more nefarious reasons.

Trying to carry my bias away (which is impossible), I don't understand why they wouldn't have Stevie sing more since she doesn't play an instrument in the band. I mean, if she is the lead singer (well, front-person is a better word for her I guess), then I'd think she would be EXPECTED to do more. I guess not.

I always found it a bit annoying that you could hear Stevie better on Walter Egan and John Stewart albums, than you could on some of the Fleetwood Mac albums, but I think Justin (Sorcerer386) might be onto something.

Given that Lindsey was the lone male "voice" in Fleetwood Mac (in so much as Mick and John don't sing on record), perhaps it was a conscious decision by him, or even the entire band, that many of his songs wouldn't feature backing vocals from Christine or Stevie, but that their songs would typically feature backing vocals from him.
So as to have more of the masculine to balance the feminine.

Seems as plausible of a possibility as any. :shrug:

I would have loved more Stevie/Chris harmonies. I really love the reissue version of "Oh Daddy."

I've always thought the way Lindsey and Chris' voices blend was just eerie. When I was a kid, I couldn't tell them apart. :o

Stevie was on World Turning? ...don't think so, at least not that I can hear :shrug: The Ledge, I'm pretty sure is all Lindsey.

I wish Stevie had been more present on a lot of Christine songs. Take Love In Store for example...I think her vocals really improve the song. Stevie & Christine sounded so great together on Straight Back. There should have been more :(

I know what you mean, about the Chris/Lindsey thing! They sound so much alike, I guess with Chris being an alto and Lindsey being a tenor, they kind of hit the same ranges. "Hold Me" shows just how awesome they sound together, but also how much they sound alike!

I love Chris/Stevie harmony and "Oh Daddy"

That is also Stevie's fav. song of Christines...she actually helped her write one line in the song ("...but I can't walk away from you baby if I tried...").

I just listened to The Ledge today, looking for that, and I can totally hear Stevie. :shrug: Anyways -
I think it's possible, but absurd, that they tried to use Lindsey's "masculine" voice to go with Christine's feminine one. But, IMO, Stevie not only has a lower timbre to her voice than Lindsey, but also a more contrasting voice to Christines. So, I think, too, that Stevie shoulda sung on more Christine's songs to provide the contrast to Christine's smooth, smooth, voice. Lindsey's voice is pretty smooth and high and superficially similar to Christine's.
Before I knew more about the Mac, I sometimes thought it was Lindsey singing, when it was really Christine. Most notably on their "both singing" songs "World Turning" and "Don't Stop" :shrug:
But maybe some of it has to do with the factor of musicianship, and that Lindsey and Christine jammed together well on their instruments and with their voices. :shrug: Although, conversely, that could be a load of crap, because i think if you give Stevie a song, she can make up a kick ass harmony to it. Maybe they didn't want her rough vocal edges on some of their songs? I could see them thinking that. :shrug: Also, from listening to the things I have listened to, including random recorded conversations, I think they both may have been perpetrating a touch of "Stevie Backlash" :mad: Although Chris probably to a lesser degree, but still. They, at some points, may have had a sense of "banding together" to counteract the obvious "attention getting, star qualities" that Stevie had. You know, like, "hey, we rock, too!!!" :laugh: which, of course, they do. :nod:
My theory is that it is probably a combination of all factors mentioned. :)

Yeah, in my original post I said excluding SYW songs. ;) You are right - Stevie definitely has a presence on Lindsey's SYW songs!

As for those other songs, I can't *noticeably* hear Stevie on GYOW, The Ledge, IKINW or any of the other non SYW songs you mentioned. On the songs that I mentioned you can clearly hear Lindsey or Chris - they are noticeably present. That is, I don't have to dig out earphones to hear them.

It could also be just the way I hear things...I'm sure we all hear different things, that's why I think it's interesting to read other's opinions about this :)

Yeah, I can hear Stevie really well on The Ledge, fairly well on GYOW, and ok on IKINW. But I really listen for the harmony, maybe that's why. I mean, granted, it mainly sounds like just "a harmony" and i can barely discern Stevie's "signature" vocal qualities, but I can still tell it's her. The most seamless, "non Stevie" harmony that I can think of, where you can't tell it's *her* at all, is "Farmer's Daughter" from the Tusk reissue. That sh** is really tight, and I can't hear any of her vocal anomolies. And another Stevie harmony, which is one of my favorites (in fact it really makes the song for me) is on "I'm so Afraid" :nod: that is definitely one where she is prominent, even though she only has a few lines...

I agree. I love the sound of Stevie's harmonies. For instance, YMLF from the Rumours reissue (Disc 2) - where Stevie sings "isn't it time to try" (I think, plus something else I can't make out) I think her vocals just add so much more to the song. (I know all the Stevie haters :laugh: would disagree) but I wish there were more songs like that - where all of them add harmonies. Much better, IMO.

The harmony on "I'm So Afraid" (mainly The Dance version) is awsome! Proves why Stevie/Lindsey sound so awesome together!

Don't I know it!! And I think not only on the Dance version (Although I see what you mean, because that version is better overall, but actually, if I'm just talking about Stevie's harmony, it kicks just as much "A" on the original, if unfortunately Lindsey's part pales on that one.) :)

I don't believe that either Chris or Stevie are on any of Lindsey's Tusk songs. I think the backing vocals on "The Ledge" may sound like Stevie, but I think it they're Lindsey backing vocals(trying to sound like Stevie), same thing with "Save Me A Place" & other songs. I generally like Lindsey's Tusk songs on the album, but I prefer them live. I think "Save Me A Place" is so much better with Chris & Stevie's harmony. I also agree with most everyone in that I wish Chris & Stevie had harmonized more together, like "Straight Back". But, I think Chris & Lindsey's voices blended together so well, far better than Stevie & Lindsey's voices in my opinion.

Oh, c'mon... you mean that "uh-huh-uh-uh-uh" during the guitar solo in "The Ledge" was Lindsey? Oh please, Stevie is singing both harmony and melody on this one.

I have also kind of wondered how Stevie's voice seems largely absent from a lot of songs- both Lindsey and Christine's. I hate to make another cliched analogy, but it seems like Lindsey is a painter who uses Stevie's voice like a rare accent color- just enough to add a bit of contrast, but not enough to distract from the overall theme of the painting. For example, in a song like "Say You Love Me," Stevie is pretty much absent except for the "Falling, falling, falling" part at the end- a point in the song where things might have become monotonous and bland. Same with "Sugar Daddy," where Stevie's voice is just brought in faintly at the end during the "I'm not asking for LOVE" part. And I don't hear Stevie doing harmonies on "Little Lies," but she has her "Tell me lies" line all to herself (and all that inane vamping on the 12" mix). Again, just wispy little Stevie strokes here and there on the FM canvas.

I have a theory about the absence of Stevie harmony vocals on the "Tango in the Night" album. I think it's because her voice was still suffering from the "Rock a Little" syndrome; it was just too wild and raw to blend in well with the other voices. For whatever reason (coke, presumably), around this time her voice had this warbly/crackly barbed wire quality that was probably too distracting no matter how low she was buried in the mix.

Anyway, here are some FM Songs without a discernable Stevie vocal (not including largely solo/acoustic songs, e.g., "Songbird"):

-Big Love (except for the 12" dance mixes)
-Everywhere
-World Turning
-Don't Stop
-I Know I'm Not Wrong
-That's Enough for Me
-Think About Me
-Over My Head
-Caroline
-Tango in the Night
-Family Man
-Empire State
-Wish You Were Here
-Only Over You
-Hold Me
-Can't Go Back
-Oh Diane
-Eyes of the World
-That's All For Everyone
-Love Shines
-When it Comes to Love
-Come
-Not That Funny
-Murrow
-Red Rover
-Love Minus Zero
-Hard Feelings

:nod:

I see Tango as a Buckingham McVie album, anyway, and that's why I like it. It gave Lindsey and Chris a bigger and better opportunity to work together than they had before. Even with songs that I dislike somewhat, I listen to them when I pop the album in because they just go together so well overall. I had to burn a copy without Stevie's tracks, though; she throws the whole blasted thing for a loop and almost ruins it. :laugh:

Whoops! Sorry! :o

I've wondered, too, if it's only Lindsey sounding like Stevie on The Ledge, but to my ears, I think Stevie is there, too. I think there definitely (clearly) are layers of Lindsey, but I do hear Stevie, too. That's just me.

Also, I mentioned World Turning. I think in my head I was hearing the live versions of World Turning - where Stevie is definitely prominent. Maybe not so much on the album. But to me, prominent can be when she is providing backing vocals or harmonies. I am all about harmonies! :laugh: For example, I don't really care at all for Say You Love Me, but I love the last few lines. And in most FM songs, I do hear her vocals (obviously not on the few Tusk songs that are all Lindsey, or something like Songbird). But if she's providing backups, the song is instantly more appealing to my ears.

I wonder if some people are more "in tuned" to certain vocal qualities and so they hear them better. Clearly, people have different tastes in music ('scuse me while I state the ridiculously obvious :rolleyes: ), and so it makes sense to me that we all hear music differently. People with perfect pitch hear things way differently than me. People who are more musically "sharp" (can't think of a better word here) hear the different instruments more clearly than I do. I could never be a music producer, for example. But imagine what it must be like to be Lindsey listening to a song with 20 different tracks? Must be a totally different experience, because he hears each one. I know I am very alert to Stevie's voice, as I'm sure others here are. So I think I hear her more intensely on songs because it's like she is singing the main track to my ears. I used to go to sleep with my radio on, and no word of a lie, I would wake up if a Stevie nicks song or a Fleetwood Mac song came on. The first time it happened, I thought it was a coincidence. By the 10th or 11th time, I figured there was a reason. Not sure if this makes any sense, but it does to me. It's all about what our ears and our brains react to.

I think one factor in why the girls didn't show so prominantly in some of Lindsey's songs is, as Stevie described about Tusk, they didn't want to be on his songs because they thought they were weird.

After Lindsey left the band, Stevie and Christine still didn't really do any songwriting or vocalizing together, which leads me to believe that maybe they just didn't quite feel comfortable for some reason.

I always thought this was weird. It's really weird that three songwriters in one band can hardly ever come together and write a song as one. I always felt that Fleetwood Mac was a combination of three solo songwriters using each other as a backing band on solo songs. Maybe that's why they were able to work together so well, or as Lindsey put it, five totally different personalities were able to come together and make music amidst their vastly different backgrounds. If they all had to work songs out together from the beginning it never would have worked. The reason that all the songs have that signature F.M. sound is because Lindsey gets a hold of 'em in the end and puts his producer/arranger mark on them. But even still the songs manage to come out containing the unique charm of each songwriter. It just hit me what a totally strange chemistry this band has!

In the early version of You Make Lovin' Fun, the end vocals go "I've a feelin' it's time to try" and "I'm beginning to wonder why." When they performed this song (before the album was even released) they sang it this way. I guess they then tinkered with the song and changed the arrangement slightly for final release.

I agree with the general sentiment that, overall, while Fleetwood Mac is well known and lauded for their 2 and 3-part harmonies, in actuality, they rarely utilize and capitalize on that sound within their songs. I think that comes from the reality that they are 3 very disparate individual, strong-willed songwriters and don't really have a group mentality.

What's worse is that in recent years, Lindsey is more prone to creating block harmonies that are so generic -- anyone could be singing them. There's no sense of individual voices blending together "organically." More often it sounds cold and studio-manufactured.

I wish they hadn't!

Actually, yes! Lindsey is the master of sonic manipulation. Just listen to his OOTC album. There are many times I think I hear Stevie or Christine, but you know he was avoiding them like the plague in 1992! Basically, he records certain parts at a slower speed. When played at a normal speed, it sound much higher then it really was. Compare a live "Never Going Back Again" to the "Rumours" version. Listen to how much higher the guitar sounds. BTW, Lindsey openly admits to using this technique.

Skies the Limit
In the Back of My Mind

I just always thought he'd capo'd it up in the studio?

Another instance where he's done this was with the love grunts on Big Love. He was constantly making comments about how everyone thought it was Stevie making those sounds but it was actually him slowing down the tape machine, as he always points out.

IMO, that technique of manipulating his voice is one of his favorites to use.

I guess I don't consider either of those as especially heavy vocalizing partnerships. :shrug:

That is one of the reasons I love SYW, Stevie has tons of background vocals which are easy to hear for a change... Normally, her background voice is the best part of a song (Little Lies, Second Hand News, What's the World Coming To?)

I like the fact that Stevie sometimes isn't noticeable or oviously absent on album tracks, it creates an interesting distonic effect when you here the same song live and her voice evidently becomes part of it, like with Over and Over, Hold Me, Big Love acoustic (Letterman or RnRHoF versions) or more recently I Know I'm Not Wrong and Red Rover. Besides the Buckingham Nicks harmonies that I love, I like those by Christine and Lindsey but much prefer those by Chris and Stevie, they seem to be much more creative together, like on Oh Daddy, Rhiannon, Farmer's daughter, Why live (where Lindsey does magic too). Actually I'd like a whole McVie/Nicks album. :D

Romy

Oh, that would be great! If only!

Listen closer, Stevie is singing a higher harmony on the chorus of Say You Love Me too. It doesn't sound much like her because the harmony is so high, she's in her upper register, which at that time was pretty high.

Wasn't there an article somewhere that listed the songs on Tusk that were basically all Lindsey?

I think it really does kinda come down to personal preference. Maybe that's the way the songs sounded best to Lindsey, as producer? Personally, I don't really like when Christine backs up Stevie, like in Rhiannon. I don't know if it's because Christine's voice is too strong compared to Stevie's in this one, maybe? But I do enjoy Christine and Lindsey's voices together, either way. And I think Stevie is a great backup singer. Like someone said, she can wrap her voice around Lindsey's. And in my opinion, she does that with all the duets I've heard her on. If she hadn't made it on her own, she coulda been a great backup singer!... although I'm sure she wouldn't have settled for that. all or nothing. lol.

Preach it. I love Tango; I really do. As you say, I even listen to the songs I'm not so crazy about. I think it was their most cohesive album, save for Stevie's songs.

He even goes so far as to emulate Mick and John on Countdown. :nod:

Do you think so? I'll have to listen to it again, closely. I don't remember its reminding me of Mick & John. That's an interesting idea! What is the song about?

Lindsey practices an art (or perhaps a craft) in which the medium is the message. So you might say that "Tango" is a concept album (the concept being a particular musical abstraction rather than a literary or mimetic one).