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-   -   Still ten percent?? (http://ledge.fleetwoodmac.net/showthread.php?t=18053)

Villavic 02-08-2005 07:18 PM

Still ten percent??
 
Just curious, I've been reading or hearing since long ago that the homosexual population in the world is around 10 percent. Is it still true?

It looks to me that it is more than 10%, buy maybe it's because now medias are far more open (and of course also people in general) about this topic so there are more gays "out" of the closet.

Of course this can be relative, since it should include an analysis like.. are you including bi? "ocasional" gays? just who have sex? or also those who fall in love with? etc..

Anyway, does anybody know about recent and reliable statistics?

dissention 02-08-2005 07:19 PM

"Occasional gays."

That made me laugh my ass off, dear. :laugh: Love that term!

amber 02-08-2005 07:19 PM

I've heard that throughout time it has always been 10-25 percent, and i think it tends toward the higher number. Don't have a statistic site, though.

strandinthewind 02-08-2005 07:19 PM

Who knows for sure and it really is impossible IMO to get an accurate number when you have people who will never admit it (due mostly to religious and social stigmatization) and then those who have group sex and get off with the same sex during it and then those who mess around on the side. I personally think everyone is just sexual and to draw lines is ridiculous. I mean what is masterbation - it certainly is not heterosexual sex. In fact, in some places, it is considered a very homo thing to do.

Villavic 02-08-2005 07:21 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by dissention
"Occasional gays."

That made me laugh my ass off, dear. :laugh: Love that term!

Yeah, I know, I couldn't find a better english word,

What I mean is people that sometimes do it (just sex), but I guess they really should be also bi. Of course you ask them and they deny it.,

dissention 02-08-2005 07:23 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Villavic
Yeah, I know, I couldn't find a better english word,

What I mean is people that sometimes do it (just sex), but I guess they really should be also bi. Of course you ask them and they deny it.,

I don't deny it. :lol:

I agree with what Jason said, though. He made good points.

Villavic 02-08-2005 07:24 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by strandinthewind
Who knows for sure and it really is impossible IMO to get an accurate number when you have people who will never admit it (due mostly to religious and social stigmatization) and then those who have group sex and get off with the same sex during it and then those who mess around on the side. I personally think everyone is just sexual and to draw lines is ridiculous. I mean what is masterbation - it certainly is not heterosexual sex. In fact, in some places, it is considered a very homo thing to do.

Interesting point.
In Colombia there was an anonymous survey, I read few years ago. And there was a high increased number of "straight" men who admited they have at least one homo sex relationship, and enjoyed it. But I can't remember the %. I do remember I thought in Peru it would give the same % results

strandinthewind 02-08-2005 07:28 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Villavic
Interesting point.
In Colombia there was an anonymous survey, I read few years ago. And there was a high increased number of "straight" men who admited they have at least one homo sex relationship, and enjoyed it. But I can't remember the %. I do remember I thought in Peru it would give the same % results

The Latino culture is esp. hard on gay people. I think it is the whole Machismo thing made severer by the Catholic guilt doctrine. I know more than one Latino who has multiple boy partners outside of his "perfectly happy" heterosexual marriage.

strandinthewind 02-08-2005 07:29 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by dissention
I don't deny it. :lol:

I agree with what Jason said, though. He made good points.

THANK YOU :D :D :D :D :D

Interestingly, Kinsey's study is probably still very applicable today. He really had a way of making people open up.

Villavic 02-08-2005 08:03 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by strandinthewind
The Latino culture is esp. hard on gay people. I think it is the whole Machismo thing made severer by the Catholic guilt doctrine. .

Yes, however it is changing. It is less hard than in the 70s or 80s. For example, when I was at college, it was unimaginable that a kid could visit a gay disco. Now many guys (18yo) have visited and they don't deny it (of course they say it was just for curious or for the music. But at leas they are not ashame it.
And there is more symptoms about it.

Quote:

Originally Posted by strandinthewind
I know more than one Latino who has multiple boy partners outside of his "perfectly happy" heterosexual marriage.

HA! I'm sure than even more than ten thousand.. ;)

ontheEdgeof17 02-09-2005 07:15 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by takenbythesky
Same here. Reminds me of an article I read that stated an anonymous American politician said, "I'm not gay--it's just my penis that is!" ":laugh:


:laugh: That burns my crawl just like "I'm str8 acting". WTF?!?!

markolas 02-09-2005 08:27 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ontheEdgeof17
:laugh: That burns my crawl just like "I'm str8 acting". WTF?!?!

It's not as bad as using the words "mangina" and "sh*t p*ssy." Ugh...

DrummerDeanna 02-09-2005 11:12 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by strandinthewind
The Latino culture is esp. hard on gay people. I think it is the whole Machismo thing made severer by the Catholic guilt doctrine. I know more than one Latino who has multiple boy partners outside of his "perfectly happy" heterosexual marriage.

:nod: This is very true....in El Paso, TX there's this big gay culture - we call them the El Paso gay boys...they all look eerily alike and come from similar backgrounds (not ALL - I'm generalizing)....in many cases their mothers accept them - but their fathers not so much....or in some cases they are ostracized by their entire families.

My good friend Matthew is a good example...his father still doesn't know he's gay (I don't know HOW) - actually I think he does know - they make horrible remarks to him when he's home....and his family still talks to him and such - but if he makes any reference at all to being gay or anything gay they yell at him and make him feel like s**t - it's very sad...

strandinthewind 02-09-2005 11:13 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Lux
. . . I agree with Jason (surprisingly), . . .

:woohoo: :woohoo: :woohoo: :woohoo: :woohoo: :woohoo: :woohoo: :woohoo: :woohoo:

GateandGarden 02-09-2005 01:39 PM

What do y'all think about the conservative sites that say 10 percent is too high? I've visited many and they often say the 10 percent thing is made up by the gay community in order to obtain more recognition, etc. I've seen some sites that claim it's really only about 1-3 percent. Just based on the gay people I've met, I would say that can't be accurate, and I'm in a place where coming out of the closet is, in some cases, comparable to signing your death warrant. Also, I read Eric Marcus' Is It a Choice?, and he thought the 10 percent was very inaccurate as well. (And he's a gay guy--it's a pro-gay book designed to dispel myths). However, he doesn't claim to have scientific evidence or be an expert. But, from what he's seen, he thinks it's about 4 to 5 percent. That is discouraging to me when I think of finding someone to be with! But, as Jason already pointed out, it's really difficult to do an accurate study on this because there are so many people out there who will never admit that they are gay or bi.

ontheEdgeof17 02-09-2005 03:50 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by GateandGarden
What do y'all think about the conservative sites that say 10 percent is too high? I've visited many and they often say the 10 percent thing is made up by the gay community in order to obtain more recognition, etc. I've seen some sites that claim it's really only about 1-3 percent. Just based on the gay people I've met, I would say that can't be accurate, and I'm in a place where coming out of the closet is, in some cases, comparable to signing your death warrant. Also, I read Eric Marcus' Is It a Choice?, and he thought the 10 percent was very inaccurate as well. (And he's a gay guy--it's a pro-gay book designed to dispel myths). However, he doesn't claim to have scientific evidence or be an expert. But, from what he's seen, he thinks it's about 4 to 5 percent. That is discouraging to me when I think of finding someone to be with! But, as Jason already pointed out, it's really difficult to do an accurate study on this because there are so many people out there who will never admit that they are gay or bi.


Well, take my high school graduating class....out of 40 boys, 4 of us are gay. 10% baby. :lol:

But you and J are right....it is hard to be accurate....10% is just a guess-timate.

dissention 02-09-2005 04:10 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ontheEdgeof17
Well, take my high school graduating class....out of 40 boys, 4 of us are gay. 10% baby. :lol:

But you and J are right....it is hard to be accurate....10% is just a guess-timate.

Ha! The four that you know about. ;) :laugh:

ontheEdgeof17 02-09-2005 04:12 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by dissention
Ha! The four that you know about. ;) :laugh:


:lol:

I was just pointing out the minimum percentage possible. :]

dissention 02-09-2005 04:18 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ontheEdgeof17
:lol:

I was just pointing out the minimum percentage possible. :]

I have always believed (and will continue to believe) that there are no such things as homosexuality and heterosexuality. As Jason said on the other page, we're sexual by nature. Show me a "straight" person who has never had sexual feelings for a member of their own sex and I will sell you a bridge in Brooklyn. Sexual feelings of all sorts are natural, they don't need to be connotated as good or bad because of trivial things like religion and what society sees as the norm. If it feels good and it ain't illegal, have fun.

amber 02-09-2005 04:19 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by dissention
I have always believed (and will continue to believe) that there are no such things as homosexuality and heterosexuality. As Jason said on the other page, we're sexual by nature. Show me a "straight" person who has never had sexual feelings for a member of their own sex and I will sell you a bridge in Brooklyn. Sexual feelings of all sorts are natural, they don't need to be connotated as good or bad because of trivial things like religion and what society sees as the norm. If it feels good and it ain't illegal, have fun.

Actually, I think there are people who have never really had a sexual feeling towards their same sex. :shrug:

ontheEdgeof17 02-09-2005 04:22 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by dissention
I have always believed (and will continue to believe) that there are no such things as homosexuality and heterosexuality. As Jason said on the other page, we're sexual by nature. Show me a "straight" person who has never had sexual feelings for a member of their own sex and I will sell you a bridge in Brooklyn. Sexual feelings of all sorts are natural, they don't need to be connotated as good or bad because of trivial things like religion and what society sees as the norm. If it feels good and it ain't illegal, have fun.


I honestly believe this. Friends think I am crazy that I say that I don't believe in sexual boundaries. I am "gay" because I do perfer men over women....my sexual drive is towards men. However, if I was attracted to a women, I'd go for it. I don't give up opportunities that could arise because I am gay. I guess I have been sucked into society's view of myself.

dissention 02-09-2005 04:24 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by amber
Actually, I think there are people who have never really had a sexual feeling towards their same sex. :shrug:

I don't (unless they're completely asexual). Anyone who says that they haven't is lying is through their teeth, IMO.

GateandGarden 02-09-2005 04:24 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by amber
Actually, I think there are people who have never really had a sexual feeling towards their same sex. :shrug:

I agree. Honestly, I've never been into the idea of actually having sex with the opposite sex. And believe me, I tried to get into that idea. So hard. But I'm sure everyone can look at any human being and admire his or her beauty, easily. I'm not sure that any of us can jump into the bed with anyone so easily. And what about the minority of the population that is asexual?

EDIT: Oh, sorry. You already addressed the asexuals.

GateandGarden 02-09-2005 04:26 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by dissention
I don't (unless they're completely asexual). Anyone who says that they haven't is lying is through their teeth, IMO.

I promise I'm not lying to y'all. :laugh: I guess it depends on what you mean by "sexual feeling." I can look at Jon Stewart or Stephen Colbert and think they're sexy, but I can't imagine ever actually doing anything with them. :shrug:

dissention 02-09-2005 04:26 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ontheEdgeof17
I honestly believe this. Friends think I am crazy that I say that I don't believe in sexual boundaries. I am "gay" because I do perfer men over women....my sexual drive is towards men. However, if I was attracted to a women, I'd go for it. I don't give up opportunities that could arise because I am gay. I guess I have been sucked into society's view of myself.

Exactly. I've been attracted to men, but not on the same level as I am towards women. Until recently, I never attempted to have any type of relationship with another man, but I'm not going to say 'You can't do this, pick one or the other.' If I feel a certain way, that's how I feel. No one has to be categorized as being this or that because it's the kind of thing that cannot be categorized.

GateandGarden 02-09-2005 04:28 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by dissention
Exactly. I've been attracted to men, but not on the same level as I am towards women. Until recently, I never attempted to have any type of relationship with another man, but I'm not going to say 'You can't do this, pick one or the other.' If I feel a certain way, that's how I feel. No one has to be categorized as being this or that because it's the kind of thing that cannot be categorized.

That's cool for you and Curtis. I believe y'all. (Why wouldn't I?) I think a whole lot of people are that way, actually. But what about me? I just don't see that in myself at all. :shrug:

Remember that this is all coming from a virgin. :o

ontheEdgeof17 02-09-2005 04:29 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by GateandGarden
That's cool for you and Curtis. I believe y'all. (Why wouldn't I?) I think a whole lot of people are that way, actually. But what about me? I just don't see that in myself at all. :shrug:

Remember that this is all coming from a virgin. :o


I don't see it happening for me anytime soon....but the option is always there.....until I find the "one".

dissention 02-09-2005 04:29 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by GateandGarden
I promise I'm not lying to y'all. :laugh: I guess it depends on what you mean by "sexual feeling." I can look at Jon Stewart or Stephen Colbert and think they're sexy, but I can't imagine ever actually doing anything with them. :shrug:

Finding someone sexy is a sexual feeling, how could it not be? If they didn't turn you on to some degree, you wouldn't find them sexy.

GateandGarden 02-09-2005 04:31 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by dissention
Finding someone sexy is a sexual feeling, how could it not be? If they didn't turn you on to some degree, you wouldn't find them sexy.

Okay, yeah, I see what you mean. But, most of the time, when someone has a "sexual feeling," don't they have the inclination to act on it if that's at all possible?

dissention 02-09-2005 04:33 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by GateandGarden
That's cool for you and Curtis. I believe y'all. (Why wouldn't I?) I think a whole lot of people are that way, actually. But what about me? I just don't see that in myself at all. :shrug:

Remember that this is all coming from a virgin. :o

Just because you haven't or have no desire to sleep with a man, it doesn't mean that you don't have any sexual feelings for them. That kind of thinking is part of the problem with society and how it categorizes a "sexual feeling" as being one that means you want to jump into the sack with someone. I don't know how you define them, but that's not how I define them. :)

amber 02-09-2005 04:34 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by dissention
I don't (unless they're completely asexual). Anyone who says that they haven't is lying is through their teeth, IMO.

How can you presume that? And just because someone really likes someone that is the gender that they don't usually sleep with, doesn't mean that those feelings necessarily translate into sexual feelings. Hell, I've slept with a girl, but I don't really actively desire to sleep with a girl. And I don't think you can presume everyone who says that is "lying". I've known people who have no qualms with any kind of sexual boundaries, but still say things like "well, there is no reason I wouldn't do it, I've just never had the desire to do it" :wavey:

amber 02-09-2005 04:35 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by dissention
Just because you haven't or have no desire to sleep with a man, it doesn't mean that you don't have any sexual feelings for them. That kind of thinking is part of the problem with society and how it categorizes a "sexual feeling" as being one that means you want to jump into the sack with someone. I don't know how you define them, but that's not how I define them. :)

Yeah, I don't call it a sexual feeling if you don't have some kind of desire to share sex with them. I call it "love" or "intense like" or "good friendship" or something. :shrug:

GateandGarden 02-09-2005 04:37 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by dissention
Just because you haven't or have no desire to sleep with a man, it doesn't mean that you don't have any sexual feelings for them. That kind of thinking is part of the problem with society and how it categorizes a "sexual feeling" as being one that means you want to jump into the sack with someone. I don't know how you define them, but that's not how I define them. :)

I suppose society has f*cked me up in that realm, as it has in others. I think it's a conclusion many jump to. I think if I tell some of my friends that I think one of our professors is sexy, some would most likely say, "So you would have sex with her? Gross!" I suppose I'm not looking at it the right way. The way you worded it, though, makes me think that, yes, everyone has had those feelings for the opposite and same sex at least once. I think some things like that go through our minds and we don't even realize it. I even think Crow on "Mystery Science Theater 3000" was kind of sexy, and he was a, uh, robot. :laugh:

dissention 02-09-2005 04:38 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by amber
How can you presume that? And just because someone really likes someone that is the gender that they don't usually sleep with, doesn't mean that those feelings necessarily translate into sexual feelings. Hell, I've slept with a girl, but I don't really actively desire to sleep with a girl. And I don't think you can presume everyone who says that is "lying". I've known people who have no qualms with any kind of sexual boundaries, but still say things like "well, there is no reason I wouldn't do it, I've just never had the desire to do it" :wavey:

So, you've slept with a girl, but because you you don't actively desire to sleep with them, that translates into you never having had sexual feelings for one? :confused:

Everyone has some sort of sexual feeling regarding both sexes, it's human nature and I'll believe it until I die.

GateandGarden 02-09-2005 04:38 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by amber
Yeah, I don't call it a sexual feeling if you don't have some kind of desire to share sex with them. I call it "love" or "intense like" or "good friendship" or something. :shrug:

I may be thoroughly confused here, but I think that contradicts what diss said. :shrug: :sorry:

strandinthewind 02-09-2005 04:39 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by dissention
So, you've slept with a girl, but because you you don't actively desire to sleep with them, that translates into you never having had sexual feelings for one? :confused:

Everyone has some sort of sexual feeling regarding both sexes, it's human nature and I'll believe it until I die.

I call it being horny :shrug:

dissention 02-09-2005 04:40 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by amber
Yeah, I don't call it a sexual feeling if you don't have some kind of desire to share sex with them. I call it "love" or "intense like" or "good friendship" or something. :shrug:

By that line of thinking, we can say that things like clothing and scents aren't sexy. If it turns you on in the least, it's a sexual feeling in my eyes. But we're all different in that realm, I suppose.

dissention 02-09-2005 04:42 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by strandinthewind
I call it being horny :shrug:

And horniness is a sexual feeling.

amber 02-09-2005 04:43 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by dissention
So, you've slept with a girl, but because you you don't actively desire to sleep with them, that translates into you never having had sexual feelings for one? :confused:

Everyone has some sort of sexual feeling regarding both sexes, it's human nature and I'll believe it until I die.

I guess i wouldn't call it a sexual feeling, if you don't want to have sex with them. And if you do want to have sex with them, then i call it a sexual feeling. And I think that some people may not have ever had a sexual feeling for their same sex. And i would never keep it so black and white as to say that it is outside the realm of possibility that not everyone on the planet has bisexual feelings. Obviously, I think most people do. But i would never say everyone does, and if they don't admit it, that they're in denial. :D

GateandGarden 02-09-2005 04:43 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by dissention
By that line of thinking, we can say that things like clothing and scents aren't sexy. If it turns you on in the least, it's a sexual feeling in my eyes. But we're all different in that realm, I suppose.

I think that's a good point. I think certain scents, clothes, etc. are sexy, but I don't want to have sex with them, so I agree with you there. :nod:


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