Billboard album sales
 

This is from the Ask Billboard section on Billboard's website:

Hi there,

I check your column weekly and really enjoy the questions asked and answered, so thank you for that. My questions are regarding Fleetwood Mac and Mick Fleetwood.

Both released albums in 2004. Fleetwood Mac with "Live In Boston" DVD and CD, and the Mick Fleetwood Band's "Something Big."

I was just wondering how well these two releases are doing sales-wise and whether or not you can provide any sales numbers for Fleetwood Mac's albums during the Nielsen SoundScan era.

Thanks for your time.

Peter Taylor

Hi Peter,

Fleetwood Mac's "Live in Boston" (Reprise) has sold just 58,000 in the United States, according to Nielsen SoundScan, since its bow in June 2004. The Mick Fleetwood Band's "Something Big" (Sanctuary) hasn't faired even as well -- its total stands at less than 3,000 units.

The Mac's biggest SoundScan-era (1991-present) release is 1997's "The Dance" (Reprise), which has sashayed through 4.3 million units.

So let me see if I understand this:
Christine in the band= sales very good
Christine out of band= sales suck?

:lol: :lol: :lol: :nod:

Well, I was looking on RIAA as I periodically do, just to see if there are any new certifications for Fleetwood Mac, and Live in Boston is certified platinum. I think for videos though 50,000 is gold instead of 500,000, and therefore 100,000 is platinum (again, that's SHIPPED units, not necessarily sold). I didn't think videos sold that well anyway, so I don't see why it is "just" 58,000 copies. It's not like it was hugely promoted like The Dance.

I wonder - does this include all the LIB sets that were "given away" to people who donated to PBS when they premiered the show as part of their membership drives?

Yeah - TIME was a blockbuster. ;)

These numbers and the question as well are old. This question was submitted by ME to Billboard... and I asked Billboard back in September, near the end of September actually, after Micks release, and they posted my question and their answer like a week later... They just reprinted (must have been a slow week in the Q&A dept.) It's exactly as it was back then... so I'm sure the numbers have gone up especially over the holidays.

And Christine, as I understand it, wasn't even going to be on Time. Her songs were added late into the project. And she didn't tour with the Time band. So there! ;)

No, I think the numbers are current. I remember back in October, the numbers for Mick's album were just under 2000. So it must have sold another 1000 since then. I think LIB was about 50,000. So it must have sold another 8000 or so since then, mostly over the holidays.

I think there are 2 DVD discs on LIB. That's why it's been certified platinum, even though it's only sold 58,000. It's the same with The Very Best Of Fleetwood Mac set. There are 2 CDs, so the numbers are doubled for RIAA certification purposes. The VBOFM CD probably will go multi-platinum by the end of this year, since it's still selling slowly, but steadily.

I wonder if SAY YOU WILL picked up any good sales over the holidays..I'm still shocked that it hasn't gone Platinum

Chris

I'm not. It's one behemoth of an album and too mcuh for the mainstream public to swallow. Quite frankly, I'm shocked that Warners let them put it out as is.

Yup. Still gold.

TVBOFM is platinum though. Rumours is like 19 times platinum.


riaa.com has all the info on each album.

yep. Lindsey has lost his self editing ability.
Behemoth(sp) is the proper word....

:laugh:

There really was no excuse for Come whatsoever or the inclusion of Bleed To Love Her, but I love the rest of his tracks (save the awful Peacekeeper that was ruined by Stevie's presence and the slowing of the tempo, I like the solo version MUCH better). I could have done without Thrown Down, Say You Will, Illume, and Silver Girl, though. They really add nothing.

Say You Will IS definitely platnum whether it is or not. Madonna's last album is Platnum and Say You Will practically doubled Madonna's sales. So it's really just warners or whatever not wanting to certify SYW platnum even though it probably is.

Illume and Thrown Down added A LOT to Say You Will. And Say You Will added a lot to Say You Will simply by making Say You Will, Say You Will :laugh:

No, Madonna's album shipped more than Say You Will did. :)

Ugh, Thrown Down is putrid swill to these ears. I can't stand it. I specifically burned myself a copy without it. Same tired old cliches in a package with a bow that lost it's luster years ago. I like parts of Illume, but that laughable voice and her monotonous delivery, coupled with music that goes nowhere, ruin it for me. However, I did think the album should have been named Illume or Come. :laugh:

Well Say You Will SOLD a lot more.

You have to actually pay RIAA to certify your albums.. cds.. whatever it is. Auditors need to be hired and paid to come in... look at all the data at the record label and there you have it.

If an artist or label does't feel like paying an auditor to do this, or if they want to wait to included other cds in their catelogue - then we sit and wait for the right time.

SYW is an amazing album. It's my fav FM album.

Every song should stay where it is but Silver Girl, Goodbye Baby and the title song.

Woah!.......well,......I can say......that's the FIRST time I've EVER read that! :lol:

Thrown Down
 

I love Thrown Down. It's catchy and the lyrics seem genuine enough to me.

As for the album and its sales or lack thereof....the marketing was fairly minimal. The appearances did not help. Stevie had zero energy on Leno and the Today Show? We won't go there. They obviously learned nothing from the success of the Dance. Why didn't they bother making a video for heavens sake? Peacekeeper, although not my first choice for the lead off single, could have generated an interesting concept video. Say You Will as well. (maybe something along the lines of LB's Slow Dancing video)

To me the problem with the album is summed up by the fact that one song after hearing a bunch of young children sing the chorus to Say You Will, you then find Lindsey telling you to think of him every time you don't come.

They should have made one really energetic/inventive/different album with tracks like Come, Murrow, Everybody Finds Out, Illume, Red Rover etc. and put in a couple of the best single material songs like Thrown Down.

Stuff like What's The World Coming To, and Say You Will are just too generic imo.

But I definitely think there's more stuff there to enjoy than any album since Tusk. It just suffers in the same way Tusk does - there doesn't seem to be one collective vision for the album.

Everybody Finds Out would have been my choice for a single with a video.

That's what I'm saying. No one feels like paying for SYW's Platnum status.

I never quite thought of it this way but yes, you're right. :laugh: :laugh: :laugh:

I think that it hasn't faired that well, because the marketing for the album, Say You Will, was sub-par, at best. :rolleyes: I've found that most "casual," Fleetwood Mac fans don't even know that they had a new album or video out. The general public has to be told that it is out there, or they just don't know that it is there=marketing. These people would have probably wanted to hear the new album, but they didn't know it was out there. Let's face it; we only knew the album was coming out, because we keep up with the band. I don't remember much publicity, except for a few commericals on at specific times on VH1 and VH1 Classic. I think Warner Brothers has failed the band by not marketing the album better. The band really should have pushed for that as well, but I think they have the attitude like Stevie said in Destiny Rules about how people her age are not "sitting on the floor smoking dope wondering what the next record is they're gonna buy." Therefore, they are just thankful to put out the record, and that the record company wanted to put it out. The band needs to remember who they are, and that they deserve to be marketed well. They have made A LOT of money for Warner Brothers over the years. What gets played on the radio today is what the record companies want, therefore if Warner Brothers had pushed this album, it would have gotten more air time, more publicity, etc. The crazy, record company world! :shrug:

The days of when a record company sticks by a band or artist because they are acutally "good" and worth keeping around are gone! Today... the listener of radio and the buyer of music are in complete control here especially if you are on one of the major labels. It is so money driven that they, the labels, can't afford failures what so ever, they are spread that thin.

As for radio and video and not marketing the band enough... I'm not sure about that. I mean you can only do so much as a label, then you have to let the public dictate where the product is going to go. If there is huge response from listeners at radio level for a particular song, single or not, then the music reaches the top... there's no other way. Playlists aren't just made up by record labels cause they want a certain band to do well, they are ultimately derived from listener response. I'm sure there are all kinds of incentives and reminders thrown the radio stations way to promote stuff.. but in the end, the public dictates what they want to hear by responding to it. A combination of single sales and radio play used to make up the big charts, now that singles aren't being made much anymore you lose that end of the equation... If there are no singles to buy or no response at radio to play the music... the song goes nowhere.

Going out on tour for groups like FM is probably the best marketing tool they have to market their music now-adays. They hit all kinds of markets, big and small, especially on this tour. This is usually accompanied by print media on the band either in reviews of the show, or just write-ups in general about them still being a group and out on the road - which usually mentions any new music if they have it... I'm sure there are radio announcements.... and in some markets tv spots.

I don't know... It's a weird situation I think and a challenge for a labels I'm sure. I try to think from my perspective... What type of advertising would make me realize that something was out there. I don't sit around watching videos all the time or even have those stations on, mainly because they aren't vid stations anymore. I was around when MTV first started out and it was excellent... nothing but videos - pretty much 24/7! And you'd sit and wait.. or leave the tv on, just to catch your favorite band. Now.. There's like an hour here and there alotted for videos!! So basically that angle would be useless. Radio.... Get maybe an hour of it a day when getting up and ready for work... other then that, it's the computer or tv.. Or if they came to town, I'd hear about that....

I think doing things like the All Access half hour gig and the Destiny Rules Doc. on vh1 are also great ways they were marketed... It's a little bit extra other then just throwing out a cd and praying to god that radio plays it. And I also think the pbs Live In Boston was a good idea, although it was on at very weird times of the night, so in the end, it probably did squat to promote anything! They should have had like an hour long concert on one of the big 4 stations instead of pbs... that would have been great!

In the end... people have to care enough to go out and buy the music. I mean they cared enough to go out and see the band on the road... Let's see... approx. 140 shows, roughly 10,000 per show... You do the math.

Sure, except Destiny Rules came out more than a year later, with no other support for the album. I mean - they played the Miranda chords at every commercial, and there's the title of the doc itself. So, why weren't those 2 songs pushed as singles at that point, with a little blurb on the show that announced it?

But, honestly, how should they have marketed the album? As far as it stands as an actual piece of work, it's just a dark and brooding mish-mash of two musical styles that don't work together. Red Rover on the same album as Everybody Finds Out? Silver Girl on the same album as Murrow Turning Over In His Grave? Come on the same album as Goodbye Baby? As much as I love the album, it has no continuity, none of it blends together at all, and it turns out just being mess. It's just too much for one to handle, many of the die-hards on this board have even said as much. And if it's hard for the big fans to swallow, just imagine how hard a pill it was for the general public to swallow.

I think part of the reason the album sank like a stone is bad word of mouth. Reading the user reviews on Amazon is very telling because most of them come from simply casual fans. Boiled down, most people missed Christine, found Lindsey's tracks were off-putting, and Stevie either left people scratching their heads or loving what were seen as the only commercial tracks on the blasted thing. The reviews weren't exactly kind, either. Some critics thought Silver Girl was about a porn star, they called Red Rover noisy junk, said Illume was downright "embarrassing," thought Everybody Finds Out was a desperate attempt to reach the young crowd, accused Lindsey of being a spoiler when it comes to production, and blasted it for being such a long epic album with no real point. What gets our jollies off as fans is really off-putting to casual fans.

The album could have been a big hit, but the actual content of it prevented that from happening. I think Warners did a phenomenal job marketing it, the public just didn't care for the product very much. :)

I think it took forever to be released on VH1 because the band had to have it edited to their satisfaction, i.e. sanitize it. Didn't you find it odd that the battles over the tour length and the running order were mysteriously left out and only referred to? :laugh: :p

I agree with your post. I think Christine's style of music was really missed and she always was able to make their albums blend more with the three of their styles all together instead of just two.

Hasn't the album gone Gold? I believe it has, which isn't that great considering what FM is capable of doing and for the simple fact that their "The Very Best Of..." 2 CD set has gone multiplatinum and was only released a year BEFORE SYW. But hey, at least Gold is SOMETHING, it's no platinum but its something considering most artist today don't even merit that.

No matter how it was marketed, I don't think Say You Will would have been a hit released as it is. Most casual fans yearn for the "Rumours" days, and anything but "Go Your Own Way" and "Dreams" will be greeted with apprehension. The tour sold well because it included a generous helping of their hits, and I think many felt that this tour might be their last chance to see FM in concert.

That it does.

Most people are dolts, unfortunately.

Yet, many of those things can be said of 'Tusk,' too, and that album is regarded as a masterpiece around here.
'Tusk' is definitely a mishmash of styles. Need I remind anyone that the CLOMP! CLOMP! CLOMP! of "What Makes You Think You're The One" follows the languid six-minute piano & acoustic guitar laced "Sara"? And that the edgy, brash and punk-tinged "WMYTYTO" then leads into "Storms"... another slow and mournful ballad?

Or that "The Ledge"... a quirky head-scratcher of a song if ever there was one... is only the second track on the album, following on the heels of Christine's ballad, "Over And Over," and then leading into the Top 40 sounding "Think About Me"?

The album is filled with jarring moments like that.

And as far as missing Christine... well, on 'Tusk' there's a span of nine songs between two of Christine's tunes, and people seem to get through that all right.


Well, the band makes up for it with the casual fans, by sticking to all the big hits in their concert setlists. ;)

As usual, it's a damned if you do/damned if you don't situation. The "commercial" moments on the album... "Say You Will," "Steal Your Heart Away," etc.... were met with groans of displeasure from the "diehards." But the edgy material that many of us here love, elicited groans from the casual fans (and, hell, even many of the diehards too!).

They have material on this album that SHOULD please both factions... and, yet, neither seem pleased. One group wishes the album was entirely "like the Mac of old," and the other group wishes the entire album was dark and edgy.

I'm a weird little goober, because I love Fleetwood Mac's "variety pack" albums, and the fact that many moods and styles are reflected in the selection.


Had the band capitalized on the success of 'The Dance' and released an album like this within a year and a half of that monster seller, I think it could have sold MUCH better.

But, they didn't strike while the iron was hot... a six year wait is a LIFETIME in the music industry... so a safer album would have been an "easier sell," and might have helped them overcome the length of time between releases.
Instead, they released a very eclectic album which required more investment from its audience.

From a business standpoint, it wasn't at all wise... but if the band feels satisfied with the album creatively, then it was definitely a success in the end. :)

Yeah, and Tusk flopped as well.

But of course, that's where the money is. Heaven forbid Fleetwood Mac ever did anything unexpected or halfway original in concert. More power to those that spend $125 to hear Stevie sing Dreams for the 34,987,013 time because I could never do it. :laugh:

You make it sound as if no one likes the album. You must have missed it in my post where I was speaking form the viewpoint of the casual fan. When put into their shoes, you should have no problem understanding why the content of the album was the cause of its bombing. To fans of Landslide and Go Your Own Way, it was nothing more than a slap in the face and just a lot of noise with no purpose.

Eclectic is a nice way to say that it's disjointed and flows together like oil and water. It can be called many nice names and I happen to like the album a lot, but let's stop the window dressing and call it what it is: a monster of an album that is quite the acquired taste. It's Lindsey and Stevie unleashed and at their most indulgent. While the individual songs are pretty damn good, there was absolutely no vision or thinking as to how it would go together as a final product and the album suffers from it. While I love getting 18 tracks as opposed to 12, most folks simply don't have the patience to listen to it.

Tusk flows better for the simple fact that there are two extremes (Lindsey and Stevie) with Christine's middle-of-the-road approach between them to lessen their impact a bit. Say You Will, unfortunately, is in your face constantly and the fact that, as someone pointed out earlier, you hear little kids singing "Say you will give me one more chance" followed by Lindsey talking about coming and not coming is not only off-putting but it makes you wonder if they really put ANY thought into the what the album would be as an end product. Instead, it sounds like two different artists laying down a bit of vocals on each other's songs to pretty them up for the use of the Fleetwood Mac name. And that's what it really is, essentially. Doesn't mean I don't love the album, it just means calling a spade a spade.

Since when has Fleetwood Mac made smart business decisions? :laugh:

TVBOFM still hasnt SOLD as much as SAY YOU WILL...as was discussed earlier it has shipped many more units because they give stores many more copies of best of albums...hence the reason Best Buy here has like 50 VBOFM albums and like 3 SYW's...but its first week of release it only sold around 66,000 and debuted at #12...SAY YOU WILL has actually sold nearly 900,000 copies...and likely has shipped over a million---but for whatever reason they still havent gotten it certified platinum

Dissention, you're taking the words from my mouth. And you saved me from having to write it down!

Ah, it's my pleasure. :laugh: :xoxo:

Correction TVBOFM HAS gone platinum (therefore selling more than SYW) according to RIAA anyways!

FLEETWOOD MAC: THE VERY BEST OF FLEETWOOD MAC (as of 01/10/03)WARNER STRATEGIC MARKETING Platinum ALBUM

www.riaa.com

VBOFM hasn't sold as much as SYW because VBOFM is counted as two discs, so when it says platinum, it really means gold (500,000).