Hmmm Hypocrisy all Around
 

link

The Other Tsunami
By John Pilger
The New Statesman

10 January 2005 Issue
While the sea may have killed tens of thousands, western policies kill millions every year. Yet even amid disaster, a new politics of community and morality is emerging.

The west's crusaders, the United States and Britain, are giving less to help the tsunami victims than the cost of a Stealth bomber or a week's bloody occupation of Iraq. The bill for George Bush's coming inauguration party would rebuild much of the coastline of Sri Lanka. Bush and Blair increased their first driblets of "aid" only when it became clear that people all over the world were spontaneously giving millions and that a public relations problem beckoned. The Blair government's current "generous" contribution is one-sixteenth of the £800m it spent on bombing Iraq before the invasion and barely one-twentieth of a £1bn gift, known as a soft loan, to the Indonesian military so that it could acquire Hawk fighter-bombers.

On 24 November, one month before the tsunami struck, the Blair government gave its backing to an arms fair in Jakarta, "designed to meet an urgent need for the [Indonesian] armed forces to review its defence capabilities", reported the Jakarta Post. The Indonesian military, responsible for genocide in East Timor, has killed more than 20,000 civilians and "insurgents" in Aceh. Among the exhibitors at the arms fair was Rolls-Royce, manufacturer of engines for the Hawks, which, along with British-supplied Scorpion armoured vehicles, machine-guns and ammunition, were terrorising and killing people in Aceh up to the day the tsunami devastated the province.

The Australian government, currently covering itself in glory for its modest response to the historic disaster befallen its Asian neighbours, has secretly trained Indonesia's Kopassus special forces, whose atrocities in Aceh are well documented. This is in keeping with Australia's 40-year support for oppression in Indonesia, notably its devotion to the dictator Suharto while his troops slaughtered a third of the population of East Timor. The government of John Howard - notorious for its imprisonment of child asylum-seekers - is at present defying international maritime law by denying East Timor its due of oil and gas royalties worth some $8bn. Without this revenue, East Timor, the world's poorest country, cannot build schools, hospitals and roads or provide work for its young people, 90 per cent of whom are unemployed.

The hypocrisy, narcissism and dissembling propaganda of the rulers of the world and their sidekicks are in full cry. Superlatives abound as to their humanitarian intent while the division of humanity into worthy and unworthy victims dominates the news. The victims of a great natural disaster are worthy (though for how long is uncertain) while the victims of man-made imperial disasters are unworthy and very often unmentionable. Somehow, reporters cannot bring themselves to report what has been going on in Aceh, supported by "our" government. This one-way moral mirror allows us to ignore a trail of destruction and carnage that is another tsunami.

Consider the plight of Afghanistan, where clean water is unknown and death in childbirth common. At the Labour Party conference in 2001, Tony Blair announced his famous crusade to "reorder the world" with the pledge: "To the Afghan people, we make this commitment . . . We will not walk away . . . we will work with you to make sure [a way is found] out of the miserable poverty that is your present existence." The Blair government was on the verge of taking part in the conquest of Afghanistan, in which as many as 25,000 civilians died. In all the great humanitarian crises in living memory, no country suffered more and none has been helped less. Just 3 per cent of all international aid spent in Afghanistan has been for reconstruction, 84 per cent is for the US-led military "coalition" and the rest is crumbs for emergency aid. What is often presented as reconstruction revenue is private investment, such as the $35m that will finance a proposed five-star hotel, mostly for foreigners. An adviser to the minister of rural affairs in Kabul told me his government had received less than 20 per cent of the aid promised to Afghan-istan. "We don't even have enough money to pay wages, let alone plan reconstruction," he said.

The reason, unspoken of course, is that Afghans are the unworthiest of victims. When US helicopter gunships repeatedly machine-gunned a remote farming village, killing as many as 93 civilians, a Pentagon official was moved to say, "The people there are dead because we wanted them dead."

I became acutely aware of this other tsunami when I reported from Cambodia in 1979. Following a decade of American bombing and Pol Pot's barbarities, Cambodia lay as stricken as Aceh is today. Disease beckoned famine and people suffered a collective trauma few could explain. Yet for nine months after the collapse of the Khmer Rouge regime, no effective aid arrived from western governments. Instead, a western- and Chinese-backed UN embargo was imposed on Cambodia, denying virtually the entire machinery of recovery and assistance. The problem for the Cambodians was that their liberators, the Vietnamese, had come from the wrong side of the cold war, having recently expelled the Americans from their homeland. That made them unworthy victims, and expendable.

A similar, largely unreported siege was forced on Iraq during the 1990s and intensified during the Anglo-American "liberation". Last September, Unicef reported that malnutrition among Iraqi children had doubled under the occupation. Infant mortality is now at the level of Burundi, higher than in Haiti and Uganda. There is crippling poverty and a chronic shortage of medicines. Cases of cancer are rising rapidly, especially breast cancer; radioactive pollution is widespread. More than 700 schools are bomb-damaged. Of the billions said to have been allocated for reconstruction in Iraq, just $29m has been spent, most of it on mercenaries guarding foreigners. Little of this is news in the west.

This other tsunami is worldwide, causing 24,000 deaths every day from poverty and debt and division that are the products of a supercult called neoliberalism. This was acknowledged by the United Nations in 1990 when it called a conference in Paris of the richest states with the aim of implementing a "programme of action" to rescue the world's poorest nations. A decade later, virtually every commitment made by western governments had been broken, making Gordon Brown's waffle about the G8 "sharing Britain's dream" of ending poverty as just that: waffle. Very few western governments have honoured the United Nations "baseline" and allotted a miserable 0.7 per cent or more of their national income to overseas aid. Britain gives just 0.34 per cent, making its "Department for International Development" a black joke. The US gives 0.14 per cent, the lowest of any industrial state.

Largely unseen and unimagined by westerners, millions of people know their lives have been declared expendable. When tariffs and food and fuel subsidies are eliminated under an IMF diktat, small farmers and the landless know they face disaster, which is why suicides among farmers are an epidemic. Only the rich, says the World Trade Organisation, are allowed to protect their home industries and agriculture; only they have the right to subsidise exports of meat, grain and sugar and dump them in poor countries at artificially low prices, thereby destroying livelihoods and lives.

Indonesia, once described by the World Bank as "a model pupil of the global economy", is a case in point. Many of those washed to their deaths in Sumatra on Boxing Day were dispossessed by IMF policies. Indonesia owes an unrepayable debt of $110bn. The World Resources Institute says the toll of this man-made tsunami reaches 13-18 million child deaths worldwide every year; or 12 million children under the age of five, according to a UN Human Development Report. "If 100 million have been killed in the formal wars of the 20th century," wrote the Australian social scientist Michael McKinley, "why are they to be privileged in comprehension over the annual [death] toll of children from structural adjustment programmes since 1982?"

That the system causing this has democracy as its war cry is a mockery which people all over the world increasingly understand. It is this rising awareness, consciousness even, that offers more than hope. Since the crusaders in Washington and London squandered world sympathy for the victims of 11 September 2001 in order to accelerate their campaign of domination, a critical public intelligence has stirred and regards the likes of Blair and Bush as liars and their culpable actions as crimes. The current outpouring of help for the tsunami victims among ordinary people in the west is a spectacular reclaiming of the politics of community, morality and internationalism denied them by governments and corporate propaganda. Listening to tourists returning from stricken countries, consumed with gratitude for the gracious, expansive way some of the poorest of the poor gave them shelter and cared for them, one hears the antithesis of "policies" that care only for the avaricious.

"The most spectacular display of public morality the world has ever seen", was how the writer Arundhati Roy described the anti-war anger that swept across the world almost two years ago. A French study now estimates that 35 million people demonstrated on that February day and says there has never been anything like it; and it was just a beginning.

This is not rhetorical; human renewal is not a phenomenon, rather the continuation of a struggle that may appear at times to have frozen but is a seed beneath the snow. Take Latin America, long declared invisible and expendable in the west. "Latin Americans have been trained in impotence," wrote Eduardo Galeano the other day. "A pedagogy passed down from colonial times, taught by violent soldiers, timorous teachers and frail fatalists, has rooted in our souls the belief that reality is untouchable and that all we can do is swallow in silence the woes each day brings." Galeano was celebrating the rebirth of real democracy in his homeland, Uruguay, where people have voted "against fear", against privatisation and its attendant indecencies. In Venezuela, municipal and state elections in October notched up the ninth democratic victory for the only government in the world sharing its oil wealth with its poorest people. In Chile, the last of the military fascists supported by western governments, notably Thatcher, are being pursued by revitalised democratic forces.

These forces are part of a movement against inequality and poverty and war that has arisen in the past six years and is more diverse, more enterprising, more internationalist and more tolerant of difference than anything in my lifetime. It is a movement unburdened by a western liberalism that believes it represents a superior form of life; the wisest know this is colonialism by another name. The wisest also know that just as the conquest of Iraq is unravelling, so a whole system of domination and impoverishment can unravel, too.

Looks like America is not the ONLY Nation committing atrocities.

I LOVE the comparisons to the inagauration. Give me a break - that is so apples an oranges and unfair. I mean suffering, disease, and pestilence has existed throughout the history of the US - yet every four years there is the inagauration. So, if we berate W, let's hear some of the same high powered criticism levels at the last 40 or so. Yet, that never happens, ah the hypocritical far left (and right for that matter) :rolleyes:

AND even if Wwould skip his inagauration, live in a tent, give all of his money to charity, and personally do 25 hours of charity work every day - you people would STILL bitch that he did not do enough :laugh:

But, I agree - govt. in general sucks and is unfair.

it just bears stating
 

That America is not the ONLY nation who interferes in world situations for their own benefit. If you are already aware, Kudos to you. As an American I get oh so TIRED of hearing all the smear directed at America ONLY. I dont agree with the garbage our Government does, but hey. They didnt consult me first :shrug:

Our government recognises our wrong doings and we accept them, however in America they are covered up and politicians aren't held accountable for their actions, I don't see this as hypocrisy what so ever, sure if we said what we say about American intereference without knowing what the Australian government has done fair enough, we also had a very important input in the Indonesian invasion of East Timor, however we know full well our shortcomings, it is constantly spread across the media, we are aware of it, it isn't glorified and people get sacked over it, and the ones that are responsible are sacked, not scape goats.

Tynan

If they did, our economy would not be recovering, 2004 would not have the greatest job gain since 1999, and Georgia and other states would not have experienced a bump in tax revenue, to wit (emphasis supplied) :

Tax revenue soars, blunts budget ax
Surge in economy eases the squeeze on state spending

By JAMES SALZER
The Atlanta Journal-Constitution
Published on: 01/08/05

State revenue shot up 24.7 percent for December — $273 million more than was collected in the same month a year earlier, the Georgia Department of Revenue reported Friday.

Halfway through the fiscal year that began July 1, revenue is up 12.9 percent, with strong income and sales tax takes leading the way. That's much healthier than the 6 percent increase state officials expected for the year.

For the first six months, collections are up $812 million. The total includes a few extra days of collections over last year, due to state accounting changes.

"The Midwest had a white Christmas. Georgia had a green Christmas this year," Tommy Hills, the state's chief financial officer, told reporters.

Lt. Gov. Mark Taylor said the improved economy should give the state government some breathing room after $1.7 billion in spending cuts over the last two years.

"Hopefully this positive news does not mean another round of pork, but instead a set of strong priorities like eliminating the backlog on rape kits at the GBI, adequately funding k-12 education so we can reduce class size, and adequately funding higher education, so students on HOPE aren't hit with steep tuition increases," Taylor said.

Gov. Sonny Perdue has preached fiscal austerity since taking office in January 2003. But in the past week, Perdue proposed spending $257 million for Georgia schools, plus a $148.7 million pay raise for teachers and state employees.

The governor said cuts toMedicaid, the state's health care program for the poor and disabled, won't be as deep as anticipated. He also intends to hire 46 driver's license examiners to reduce long lines at Department of Motor Vehicle locations.

Medicaid provides health care to about 1.4 million Georgians, and more than 1.8 million Georgians attend state-supported schools and colleges. Spending for both has been severely reduced, and another round of painful cuts next year had been anticipated.

Even with the spurt of revenue growth, Perdue is likely to try to cut more than $100 million from state health care programs. And he is not expected to restore about $400 million pared from spending on schools during the last two years.

The new, robust revenue figures have some wondering why spending cuts will be needed at all.

"We should not be cutting the health and social service programs that are so important to the people of this state, especially children and the elderly," said Linda Lowe, a public health care advocate. "It is very questionable. We need to get our priorities straight: families, children and the elderly."

The priority for Perdue and the Republican majority in the Legislature will likely be on rebuilding state reserves, which fell from $700 million to about $50 million in two years. The reserves needs to be rebuilt, they say, to maintain the state's AAA bond rating, which is vital to a state that pays $1 billion a year to repay money it borrows.

Hills cautioned that Georgia's revenue growth may not continue at the same rate. The state collects about 55 percent of its taxes in the second half of the fiscal year, he said, so much of the anticipated funds haven't been collected yet.

Rajeev Dhawan, director of Economic Forecasting Center at Georgia State University, called the surge in revenue "a pleasant surprise."

"I think the likelihood of substantial [spending cuts] is lower," he said. "The issue is whether the cuts turn into increased spending."

Dhawan said he wouldn't expect that to happen — if at all — until the next fiscal year, which begins July 1.

A key sign of an improving economy is the state's income tax collections — up 32.4 percent for December, and 12.1 percent for the first half of the year. Income taxes bring in more revenue than any other state tax.

"Georgia is late, really, in cashing in on the [improving] growth rate in the economy," Hills said. "We have been waiting for two years for this growth."

The revenue numbers were announced three days before lawmakers return for the 2005 session of the General Assembly.

While Perdue has been freeing up millions in recent weeks for delayed construction projects, Senate Appropriations Chairman Jack Hill (R-Reidsville) said he believes the days of heavy state spending on legislative pork are gone.

"I don't think anybody is making any promises," Hill said. "I don't really see the return of special projects."

Find this article at:
http://www.ajc.com/news/content/metr...08revenue.html

_________________________________________________

I just could not resist that :laugh: :laugh: :wavey:

You get a cookie for that one. Hit nail on head. :xoxo:

Now in a sense I may have sounded too critical of the general American public, if so I take it back to an extent, I believe the media is shocking (I have Fox News on my Pay-TV at home and all I can say is ech). However the population needs to realise this in GENERAL (you guys seem fairly well educated in it) and understand the media can feed you lies.

We constantly villify our politicians, no politician in our nation is indispensable, hell we've sacked our Prime Minister before (head of government) and just in 2003 forced our governor general (head of state) to resign!

We know we have done wrong but we acknowledge it and are aware of it and I think that makes a huge difference.

Tynan

Your govt. officially came out and listed every bad act it has done. You all have voted out every politician you deem did a bad act :shrug: If so, great and I am happy for you all (I am being serious not a smart a$$)

America's is as well. The media here screamed about the war in Iraq. They reported all of the autrocities. They showed, to the govt.'s chagrain, the torturing at the prison. What are they supposed to do, show the bullets ripping into the Iraqi's :shrug: Show the Muslim extremists beheading innocent people. No, they should not show that - reporting it is enough and they do that :shrug:

Americans, and I submit alot of the rest of the Western, for the mostr part world just do not care. They just as well see all Middle Easterners dead and BOTH sides have dirty hands in that.

Anyway, that is how I see it and I ain't about to get into a five page repeat bitch fest with anyone :cool:

I blame you. You gave us Rupert Murdoch. :laugh:

AMEN BROTHER JOSH - AMEN :xoxo:

I don't think its a bitch fest, personally regardlless of others opinions I am interested in them, I found it amazing to find the American perspective on these issues and am greatful there are enlightened people I can learn from.

For the record I am involved in politics in Australia, and am aiming to get in to parliament, I am a member of the Labor party which has socialist roots and is currently in opposition.

Tynan

Tynan for PM!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

We will have to have a rally for you here on The Ledge!!!!!!!!!!

Also, though I quoted you prior to my response, not all of that was directed at you :cool: :angel:

I would be more angry at Canada they gave you Celine Dion and Bryan Adams hehe (Sorry south park joke).

Seriously though, we gave him to you but you allowed him to do it. A big battle in Australia at the moment is that there is a huge fight on people being able to own certain media facets and not more than one (or something like that), so we are trying to stop that blatant bias over here....I must say I LOVE watching Bill O'Reilly, I piss myself laughing.

Tynan

Tynan

Just for the record, FDR cancelled three of his inagurations (well, the party party anyway). Reasons? The Depression and WWII. Just saying.

The most important thing though is that I hope democracy is preserved as long as possible, that can only happen with an informed public I think, it doesn't matter in what country, a great democracy needs a great education and understanding of the issues.

Tynan

:lol: :lol: :lol:

Puhleeze.

LOL - Bryan "I am rich enough to afford dermabrasion but will NOT do it" Adams :laugh: :wavey: :laugh:

As for BO - he is a characture of himself now - at least to me. Also, he is a sell out. Fox needed to get to no. 1 in the ratings and he helped by spinning not wanting Jesus into the Const. (better said as Govt. sponsored religion :laugh: ) as an attack on an individual's right to practice whatever faith they want or no faith ( :wavey: Dissention ) - they made that seem like that was an attack on God Himself. And, they only give a rat's a$$ about the Evangelical Christian God mind you :mad: But, no one wants to take the time to learn the difference. So, they listen to panderers like BO, Hannity, Rush "pillpopper" Limbaugh, etc. and accept that crap they spew as the truth. Such is life - ain't it grand :rolleyes:

:laugh:

Rupert Murdoch makes my skin crawl. Always has. He's scum.

I saw a guy on Bill O'Reilly the other day saying how generous America is for going over to third world countries and employing so many people, ie: thinking sweat shops for nike, etc are a geneorus contribution to the world.

Tynan

You are right, it was nevfer reported in any paper whatsoever. The cable news never carried any stories. The NYTimes and just about every ohter major paper here never posted editorials screaming about the war. The 9/11 Commission's report received no press.

Yep - none of that happened - not one word - no pic.s, no text, NOTHING at all :rolleyes:

Again, I ask you, what more could they have done. They reported it and W still got elected. The math there to me means the American people know it, but do not care because they hate ALL Middle Easterners.

O'Reilly isn't exactly a bastion of good journalism. He once stated that 58% of American single mothers were on welfare. He said that America contributes the most tax money in foreign aid. He says he's an independent, but is a registered Republican. He dreams up Peabody awards.

I don't know for a fact (so tell me if I'm wrong...I know you will hehe) but apparently some Defence force guy has been on television saying what happened at Abu Ghraib wasn't even illegal, or atleast that is what the report found, I may have heard it somewhere else but I think it was TV.

Tynan

I'm not taking the bait. ;) You know as well as I do that the American press failed miserably in reporting this war and everything that went with it. They did such a bad job that they're as responsible for this mess as the Bush administration.

Terrible situation really although I don't deny Australian news papers are ridiculously biased, there are three main ones owned by Families, when one gets married its front page news in that family's paper!

But I think in a sense the ultimate responsibility in ANY nation comes down to the people, who have to be motivated enough to discover the truth, because nothing beats huge people power, simple, there just has to be enough willing to though.

Tynan

:laugh: the Nike stuff was bad and there certainly are others.

I think the world is moving toward a globnal economy and the larger countries are trying to figure out how to protect the job in America that costs $10 per hour against the same job in India that costs $3.00 per hour (whatever it is) - I think we and the world are approaching this the wrong way - but I know of no alternative that work - Hopefully, it will resolve itself.

Kathie Lee. Mary Kate and Ashley Olsen. :woohoo:

The problem is that these thrid world economies especially india and china are increasing very very rapidly, so it seems as if this is a viable option, however, I think it has more to do with their large population and the natural progression of the society.

Tynan

Well, the American people are amongst the laziest people to grace this Earth, so good luck in trying to get them to take any responsibility about anything. The American people roll over and fetch for the people in charge and it's only gotten worse in the name of partisan politics. Throw the Bible around with some random month-old fetus and everyone is up in arms, ready to picket and bomb abortion clinics. Send their kids over to Iraq to kill other kids and all they do is wave the flag, slap a magnet onto the ass of their car, and profess their allegiance with Bush. The current crop of Americans wouldn't know true democracy if it flew up and bit them in their self-satisfied, greedy asses. They're ignorant and stupid by choice. Great country, lazy people.

You can lead a horse to water - but you cannot make it drink :shrug: Thus it was with the American public. They knew. If they watched ANY TV or if they ever glanced at the cover much less read a magazine or newspaper - the facts were there - and vehemently expressed. The public just refused to believe it.

Agian, what more could they have done -

they reported the abuses like torture

they reported the failures like the tons of missing explosives

they lambasted W on the missing WMD

they reported the faulty intelligence

they reported the administration's lack of interest in OBL until 9:00 a.m. on 9/11

they reported that Afgan is a drug seller now and we are supporting that

they reported W and crewe GROSSLY underestimated the post war in Iraq

they reported the lack of finding OBL

and about a million more.

And - when I say "they" - I mean all of them - even Fox News carried the AP wire stories and even wrote their own - even Fox showed the prison torture :shrug: Even BO came out agains the post war situation in Iraq and said Americans should hold him accountable for that - and BO did in his interview with W :shrug:

But and again, you can lead a horse to water, but you cannot make it drink :shrug: Most American's do not care if Middle Easterners die.

I think you think reporters should respond the Pres. (and I mean any Pres. ) with a finger in the face and dialouge similar to "shut that LYING MF'ing hole in your face and listen to me you wothless so and so . . . "

I think we both know that will never happen and it never really has :shrug:

But - you will never see the truth in what I said because it is easier to blast, etc. So be it :cool:

China will be the largest in the next ten years of less.

India already is the largest Democracy on the planet.

America, however, still retains the economic and, along with her allies, the military power - so we shall see where this leads :cool:

AMEN - but I would soften it to say "mostly lazy people" - what was that about shades of gray :laugh: :wavey: :cool:

BTW - your post bolsters if not proves my point that the media put the info out there and the majority of Americans could care a less :cool: Thanks :wavey: :xoxo:

I wasn't going to say it in those words howver I think in a sense it could be true, I know at election time, I felt the same way but I try to think the best of people and that it will eventually work out, we had our conservatice PM re-elected a month before your election, I was shocked, I thought we would win but at the same time, it isn't because middle Australia are being lied to so much, it is that middle Australia are getting what they want, - grants for first home buyers, grants to help pay for new babies, expensive but popular, so really people are stupid to get rid of it if they benefit.

Our economy is good and we are thriving at the moment, however from what I am aware, America ain't doing so great at the moment.
Tynan

It will lead to a hell of a lot of problems in this generation, because it is a huge shift given current standars and conceptions, ie: personally I think our world will change even more greatly in the next hundred years than the last, because the next generation will be generally free of a lot of the old school though patterns of my grandparents generation (I am sixteen) and we will see radical thought changes.

I predict legalisation of marijuana the norm (we can discuss this in another thread if your up for) and much different views towards homosexuals and lesbians, and all for the better!

Tynan

:laugh:

Yeah, the media that only interested, intelligent, and responsible people, such as myself, seek out. :laugh: If you can tell me that average Americans have the intelligence to access stuff such as The Nation and The Economist, I'll give you a kiss. That kind of truthful media is the only real media we have. Most Americans are ignorant to this fact and listen to the gospels of GE, Murdoch, Sinclair, and Disney. If you can honestly tell me that they did their jobs in reporting over the past three years, I'll give you another kiss, only this time I'll up the ante and slip some tongue. ;)

I think all people are generally lazy :shrug: Thus, I would not limit Americans in that label.

As for the economy - all major indicators indicate it is well on the way to recovery save any terrorist attack, etc. Personally, I welcome this news no matter that it will put a feather in that jerk W's hat. But, I am not partisan :shrug:

The question is whether it will revcover and then boom (with legal profits unlike the costly and economic ruining fraud that went unchecked in the 90's - that little fiasco cost trillions in lost wealth and tens of millions of lost jobs ) enough so that America can pay the OUTRAGEOUS debt W put us in to get there. Personally, I am unsure. But, I hope it does. It certainly could, but that is going to take some doing (like STOP SPENDING ON CREDIT ) and a lot of luck.

Yer I think the debt was something was big, the American national debt is bigger than our whole budget for the next ten years! Is it true it is over a trillion dollars?

Tynan

You may kiss me whenever you like :laugh:

But and again, I do not know what more they could do to get it through to people. But, they did report the good with the bad and reported it often. Those facts speak for themselves and if you have any evidence to the contrary let's see it.

The problem was people like Hannity, BO, and the mad ant Scarborough and their ilk were allowd to voice their response. Should we have silenced them :shrug: I wish we had no matter the cost to freedom of the press - and I know EXACTLY what that makes me sound like :laugh: :eek: :laugh:

I think so - but that number is difficult to figure and people use different models. But, that sounds about right. I think a booming economy can cut that to zero - but and again, that will require discipline, which the R's have none of :mad:

Well I think it speaks volumes that the names of the fox enws network are the names i have heard in Australia, that is the face you are presenting to the world.

Tynan

well, they really cannot be silenced by law and I submit every country has these types :shrug:

Well, we present others as well. I also tend to think FOX is not broadcast too much outside of the US. I base this on my travels abroad. The hotels (American and foreign owned) always have CNN, which IMO (shut us Diss :laugh: ) is FAR from being conservative and is a little bit like light or diet news. I have never seen Fox in any of those hotels. Thus and hopefully, we keep our crazies in the upstairs room :laugh: