Pre and Post Christine
 

Ok, so I'm sitting here watching The Dance for the umpeenth time. However, for the past many weeks, I've pretty much watched LIB in its entirety. So now I'm realizing the significant difference between FM w/ Christine and FM w/o Christine. It's always FM, but in each video, it's a compltety different performance as a whole. The dichotmous nature of FM between these two videos fascinate me. I realize that there are about an infinite number of FM carnations, but I'm mainly intersted in TD vs. LIB. What does everyone think, comparing the two, as a band???? :blob1:

I also think it's amazing to see the difference between the two.
The Dance has a whole different vibe from Live in Boston. Christine left a huge gaping hole in Fleetwood Mac IMO when she left. (I think it also reflects in the sales of the Say You Will album!)
I don't think the latest lineup of Fleetwood Mac is bad by any means but it's just on a completely different level to The Dance.The band is SO much stronger with Christine in the fold.


-Bryan

It's difficult for me to compare them, because from the first time I've watched the Dance I've never felt the concert vibe, but the typical MTV hybrid vibe, and they're very different. By the way, even if I love the more guitar oriented sound and the intense, sometimes breathtaking harmonies on LIB, I missed Christine's songs. When I listen to a boot from their previous tours, they always represent for me the perfect chill-out moments that make me appreciate even more all the different flavours in FM music. And I can't believe I won't have the chance to enjoy new versions of Oh Daddy, Why, Say You Love Me, Brown Eyes, Over And Over, Little Lies, or Stevie & Lindsey's voices on tracks like Friend or You Are.

Romy

Yeah, there's a difference, but I think I prefer LIB. On The Dance, Christine really seemed like she didn't want to be there. I've just never liked her songs as much as Stevie's and Lindsey's (maybe if she'd done fewer "You Make Loving Funs" and more "Oh Daddys") and I agree with LB when he says her songs didn't work as well live.

I liked In the Meantime just fine, and while I wonder what some of the songs would've sounded like with Lindsey's (and Stevie's) involvement, I didn't miss Christine on SYW or LIB. I love her voice, but I can't relate to the idea that Lindsey & Stevie need her mellow (overly, sometimes) adult-contemporariness to "balance them out," as I keep hearing repeated by Christine-less FM naysayers. Then again, I don't understand why so many people are so in love with Bob Welch, either. "Sentimental Lady" is such a &$%#@! boring song. I can't imagine what Christine & Bob must've sounded like together. They'd probably put me to sleep. :sorry:

I can't speak about any comparison between The Dance & Live in Boston, since I didn't get Live In Boston & so I haven't heard it. But, there is NOTHING boring about Christine & Bob Welch together. I LOVE Mystery To Me & Heroes Are Hard To Find. In my opinion, MTM is the best Fleetwood Mac album ever, although Rumours is a strong second. I also have 2 fantastic live Heroes boots as well & they're terrific too(lots of great keyboards on there). And, Sentimental Lady(the Bare Trees version) is one of my favorite Bob Welch songs. It's NOT boring.

The Dance is Fleetwood Mac & LIB is Buckingham Nicks.

The music sounded more empty and hollow to me on LIB, while I thought the Dance sounded much fuller. Also, I love the 3-part harmonies of Buckingham/Nicks/McVie. But I like them both.

Yup - nothing else to say

Gail

Ditto...
 

What bikerchic and gailh said.

I still miss Christine. ::sigh::

And yes, I support her decision to retire from FM... BUT...I just can't help wondering what could have been if Say You Will/In The Meantime would have been combined and edited into one album.

The Dance made me a Fleetwood Mac fanatic, but it is different from this tour and the Live in Boston tape.
The group had a more standard "pop" sound with Christine. They may have called themselves a rock group, but there was a very definite old-time top 40 flavor to their music.
Now, while they haven't lost that sound totally, there is more non-stop "passion." I just think when you have two very (head)strong folks like Stevie and Lindsey out there--you have this non-stop roller coaster ride. And I like that a lot. Absolutely no disrespect meant at all, but I think Christine simply sings her songs, for the most part. Stevie and Lindsey pour themselves into their performances. That's why I love them and that's why I basically look at no one or nothing else when they are on stage.
In all honesty, my favorite moments of the Dance featured Stevie and/or Lindsey. I'm just not a Christine person. So, of course, I had a field day with this BuckinghamNicks-centric version of Fleetwood Mac.

yep. :nod:
I liked Christines more rocking songs (say you love me, temporary one) but otherwise...don't miss her too much. maybe her harmonies.

Couldn't have said it better myself! :nod:

sometimes, when i do manage to put sentimentality aside, i think that chris did the band a favour when she left, leaving them to find back their edge. TD vs. LIB proves that nicely. chris can be great, but you can't compare "great" to the powers of LB & SN, they both are way above that.
you could say the band's recent inability to score radio hits was resulted by her leaving, but to be honest i think her writing abilities aren't what they used to be in 1987, and besides, i don't need a strong single to get hooked on a FM album anymore.

I sort of agree
 

"Say You Will" is a lot edgier than "Tango in the Night" or "Mirage," but that isn't because Christine left. She didn't have that much influence over the band's direction, quite frankly, & she certainly never shanghaied the shows. If earlier albums with the five of them aren't edgy enough, I think it's unfair to blame Chris. Blame them all. "The Dance" was presented & packaged by ALL of them & ALL their managers & producers as a very stately, precisely performed & essentially immaculate affair.

Besides, quite a bunch of the songs on "The Dance" are also on "Live in Boston" -- so it's a good bet that the "Live in Boston" participants, being on the second go-round, as it were, were just a little more fired up themselves & in the mood to stretch a little (the way that song arrangements evolved & performances got more brazen from the Rumours tour to the Tusk tour).

"Boston" is a different agenda from that of "The Dance." If Christine had been along on the tour the last two years, Lindsey & Stevie would have still performed just the way they did perform.

um, i think just the inclusion of her songs takes the edge away. Not because of her influence on what everyone else is doing. just her songs are...feathers. No edge.

I guess I can see what you mean. I think it's like when Lindsey left in '87 he did the band a huge favour by leaving because they added Rick and Billy and that gave them a whole new edge. :nod:

The Dance was a much bigger "deal" than LIB in my opinion. The Dance's broadcast on MTV was either or going to make or break their comeback. I think that's part of the reason it's so polished sounding. Also, I think they couldn't take risks because they didn't want to alienate old fans, epscially casual fans. Those types want the hits, that's it.

Lindsey is the one who looks more alive on LIB. Stevie looks about the same. She sounds better on the Dance. Beautiful Child and Stand Back were her highlights this time around. (Rhiannon was pretty good as well.) But the LIB performances of Landslide, Gypsy, and Silver Springs -- yikes.

Silver Springs and Landslide I might agree with you on, but I much prefer the LIB version of Gypsy to the one on The Dance.

you're being sarcastic, right?

I like the Peter Green version of FM, and I'm crazy about the Buckingham Nicks version, obviously. But the "middle years" with Bob Welch, I can't get into. I bought Bare Trees, and thought it was a pretty sleepy album, mostly. A few high points, but mainly I couldn't get into it. So, I haven't bought any further Bob Welch FM albums.

As for Sentimental Lady...blech. I will say that Christine's vocals add a little color to the FM version, but not enough for me to be able to stomach it.

IMO, the reason SYW/LIB has fewer sales than TD has nothing to do with Christine's absence. TD was full of past hits that even casual fans would spend money on. The SYW releases got minimal radio time here. Let's face it, if you don't show your bellyring and perform a synchronized dance with each song (while lip-synching, I might add!), you're not going to sell as many records or get as much air time. It's not just about music anymore, and adult music fans like us aren't the marketing target anymore, either. I know we have lots of younger fans on the Ledge, but you've got to know you are in the minority with your age group, though I have to commend your wonderful taste! :thumbsup:

I prefer the edgier LIB line-up, but I do miss Christine since I never saw her live. I've been a fan since the "White album," but the past tour was the first time I've ever seen the band live!

I think she both looks and sounds better on The Dance, but I still prefer LIB.

Stevie didn't look so good on this tour, IMO. Especially the last leg where she had those hideous bangs and that scarf around her neck. Maybe it was covering up a tracheotomy scar, or something. That would explain her voice.

I was watching the video clip of the Jones Beach performance of Sara, and though that red outfit she had on was dreadful. The layers and layers of clothes make her look too heavy. Whoever is picking out her wardrobe needs to be fired.

At the very least, she should get a new haircut for the next album and tour.

As for Lindsey...I think I said once before that the Fab Five from Queer Eye need to get ahold of him.

lol..no! I think that the band NEEDED fresh input at that point. I think that if Lindsey did agree to join them on tour in '87 then it would've made Fleetwood Mac pretty stale pretty fast. Just look at the inaguration performance of Don't Stop in '93...it just wasn't right. It was dull. But with changes happening in the band throughout those years it seemed right to have The Dance happen at that particular time in 1997. I don't think that Fleetwood Mac could've gone on to be hugely successful in the early nineties even if Lindsey were still in the band.


-Bryan

Ditto! Her wardrobe on this tour was terrible. The length of her dresses was so unflattering....and that @*!#*# cardigan!!!!

I also think she needs a new haircut. I think the long, straight look makes her look older. Some inches off the length, and a little wave and volume...and she'd look spectacular. :nod:

Really? If frustrates me she just says, "and it lights up the night," instead of trying to belt it. And I think the "la la las" sound a little flat.

Now that I think about it though, musically it sounds better on LIB.

Yeah. LIB had some great moments, and as everyone says, it was "edgier." But I'm just a sucker for the five of them together.

Both the band and Lindsey himself received a new and better edge by parting ways. After all,he did release 'Out Of The Cradle' after leaving,which is his greatest work to date IMO. I don't mean Lindsey made the band dull either,I mean the band would have made themselves dull by carrying on as 'the Rumours lineup'. It wouldn't have lasted very long,and quite possibly Fleetwood Mac would've died an eventual death had it not been for Lindsey leaving and then re-joining ten years later. So yes,it's all good. :nod:

While we're on the subject of TD vs. LIB,
I think these first two Amazon reviews of LIB sum it up pretty well. (still,i think the 2 outta 5 stars is a bit harsh on that one!)


Bryan

what you are suggesting is merely speculating, while in actual fact the joining of RV & BB took concert/record time from two great talents in favour of two inferior ones. i think i would have enjoyed a SN/CM album a lot more.

They're only inferior in your opinion.

I see your point, but I think that's essentially what the band did anyway after it folded in two new members. The concerts opened with "Say You Love Me," followed by "The Chain," "Dreams" & "Rhiannon," & closing with "Blue Letter," "Go Your Own Way" & "Songbird.

The "Rumours" formula was so firmly entrenched onstage that neither those two new members nor the two new members after them were able to dislodge it.

The one album that '90 group made was a slightly different kettle of fish; but "Time" has the "Rumours"-style signature on a lot of it. I don't mean to put down Billy or Rick or Dave, per se, but I've heard some of my cohorts say that the '87 lineup change provided a "fresh new change" of direction, & I just didn't witness that. (Citing the reasons for it is a different issue.) "Change" is what Kate Bush did with "The Dreaming," for example, or what Fleetwood Mac did when Welch joined. Anybody agree?

Funny you should ask about the The Dance vs. LIB. I just happened to listen to the Dance last night and was kind of surprised - I am already used to no Christine and in some ways like it better. It's more "rock music" now, whereas Chris there gives it more of a "pop" feel.

In shows, Lindsey has come "alive" so since Chris left. I don't know why that is. Does he feel he has to make up for her being gone? Did she squelch him? Is it that he is now married and has 3 kids? I'd love to know the answer...

There's FIVE albums with Welch & Christine...stop trying to "imagine" and LISTEN...Future Games, Bare Trees, Penguin, Mystery To Me & Heroes Are Hard To Find.

Bulls**t. (x1000)

inferior or you just don't prefer them Tommer? I do not think of Rick Vito as an inferior guitarist. He may not be as popular, but never mistake popularity for superiority. That's a big trap to fall into.

Having said that I love LB on guitar and probably prefer him. But I have to say that the Behind the Mask tour was breathtaking. It blew me away. Nothing inferior about it IMO.

LMAO! :laugh: :lol: :laugh: :lol: Great retort!

Hillary

Well, I've heard Bare Trees, and I thought it was kind of a dozer. But, you had Danny Kirwan in there to balance things out a little. What I was really talking about were the albums where it's *just* Bob & Christine.

markolas,

if you are so inclined may i suggest Heroes are Hard to Find

to me this is pretty adventureous and doesn't get the credit it deserves at times

some really cool stuff on this album. glad you gave Bare Trees a chance!