I'm an "undecided"...convince me.
 

I had planned on voting for Bush, but the last few days I've been reconsidering. Since there are so many Dems on this board, I thought I'd give y'all a chance to convince me to vote for Kerry.

If it helps you to know where I stand on some things okay:
--I'm okay with stem cell research, but I don't think that makes late term abortions okay.
--I'm all for gay marriage. In fact, I performed a committment ceremoney for a friend when I lived in FL.
--No throwing things at me, but I supported the war in Iraq. But I also feel it's time for our troops to come home.
--I'm middle class

I have one request, though. Don't bash Bush. That's not gonna convince me, and it will probably make me skip the post. I want to know what Kerry will do; not what Bush has done/hasn't done/should do/won't do, etc. I want to know how Kerry will keep us safe, how he's going to pay for all these wonderful things he's promised, if he plans on going after bin laden. I kept hearing him say during the debates what he's gonna do, but never heard him say how.

Oh, one more thing. Keep it simple. I took an Indian neonatologist's depo and I've had enough big words for a while. :p

So have at it. Sell me on Kerry.

Thanks, guys!
Carol

Well, why were you going to vote for Bush? I can't tell from your post what you do agree with him about...Is it because you think Bush will keep us safe?
:wavey:
AMber

Mainly because I want people to tell me why I should vote for Kerry; not why I shouldn't vote for bush. Does that make sense? Why did I vote for bush the first time? I like him as a person :ducks head: for one thing. I can't stand Clinton, and I found Gore boring. I don't remember exactly I liked bush more than gore, except that gore didn't impress me during the debates or anything. I watched the campaign then and knew I wanted to vote for bush. This time I'm wishy-washy...

Carol

No, you said you "had planned on voting for Bush" and I wanted to know why, since the few positions you posted that you had did not agree with Bush. If i was gonna convince you, i had to find out what you care about, see?
AMber

I think you should vote for Kerry because he is more even tempered than W.

I think Kerry is smarter and more experienced than W.

I think W and Cheney both avoided going to Vietnam but have no qualms about sending other peoples' children to war on a false premise, not listening to the advice of their Generals and sending too few troops, and then not having a plan to win the peace in Iraq or, apparently, to secure the munitions sites once we got there.

I think if you are for civil liberties as you say you are, you must realize W will most certainly push to ban a woman's right to choose, any rights at all afforded to gay people, and any rights at all left in the Const.'s prohibition against unreasonable and warrantless searches and seizures.

I think Kerry is not for any of those things and W is. So, I think if you are okay with the foregoing, then you should vote for W. If not, then vote for Kerry.

I voted for Kerry because I think Kerry can and will protect us, but he will not foolheartedly rush into a conflict that we do not have to fight. Again, Kerry and the Senate gave W the authorization to use force in Iraq as a last resort. W betrayed that authorization and went in before the UN inspections, which were finally working, could be completed in about three or so months. W could not wait for that. Then, after saying SH was an immediate and exigent threat and his admin. said they "knew" where the WMD were in order to sell the war, it all turns out to have been a lie. Over 1,000 American soldiers payed the price of their lives for that lie and 10's of thousands of innocent Iraqi's (the people we are supposed to care enough about to liberate) are dead because of it.

I hope that helps!!!!

Tone: Not an in your face kind of way :cool:

George Bush does not support stem cell research. The only embryos he has made available for stem cell research are damaged ones, hardly the cream of the crop. That, in turn, taints any kind of research that comes out of testing. All of the cells available under the Bush policy were originally grown on what is known as a "feeder layer" of mouse cells, making their therapeutic value uncertain. The Bush policy prevents federally funded scientists from conducting research on stem cells grown without this contamination.

Kerry believes in supporting stem cell research. He wants to expand the stem cell policies by making clean embryos available, along with more federal support. From the Kerry webpage on stem cell research:

"John Kerry And John Edwards Support Lifting The Ban On Stem Cell Research. Stem cells hold enormous promise for the development of new treatments for the most devastating diseases. John Kerry and John Edwards believe our medical researchers should be permitted and encouraged to simultaneously pursue embryonic stem cell research. As president, John Kerry will overturn the ban on federal funding of research on new stem cell lines, and he will allow doctors and scientists to explore their full potential with the appropriate ethical oversight. Patients and their families should no longer be denied the hope that this new research brings."

George Bush wants to ban gay marriage nationally instead of allowing states to decide. His administration also doesn't believe that gay men and women should have equal pay in the workplace. He once said that AIDS was not a disease. Out of all the money he has said he would give to stop the spread of AIDS, so far he has only given $300 million, billions short of what he promised.

While John kerry does not believe in gay marriage, he does not believe that the federal government should impose the rights of the states and ban it. He also voted against the Defense of Marriage Act of 1998, one of very few senators who had the balls to do so.

George Bush CUT combat pay for the soldiers in Iraq, he CUT benefits for them, and he CUT aid for their families back at home. He has also CUT veterans benefits for all veterans and has given the go ahead to closing three VA hospitals.

90% of all the wealth in this country belongs to 1% of the population. When he cut taxes, who benefitted more? The people who make $25,000 a year or the people who made millions? The people who made millions. In fact, over 80% of the tax cut went to the wealthiest one percent of the population...the same people who already own 90% of all wealth. Bush is also in favor of getting rid of the income tax and instead replacing it with a flat federal sales tax. Tha twould mean a federal sales tax of around 20%, plus 5-10% for state and local taxes, meaning that you would pay about 30 cents on the dollar for taxed products

Now, at JohnKerry.com, he lays out every plan he has for the country and the issues. Go here:

http://www.johnkerry.com/issues/

When you click on an issue, it will give you some background info on that particular issue and what he believes. As you scroll down whatever issue you click, on the right side of the screen you will see a box that says "_________ Plans." Click on a particular plan and it will be laid out for you. Go there and check them out because they lay everything out!

Oh! oops...told you my brain is fried. :]
Well, see I'm a Republican and have NEVER voted democrat. And like I said, I like bush as a person. Sorry, but that's important to me. And I think the few things I mentioned were more to show that I'm kind of a liberal republican.

The thing that concerns me most is being safe. That's my biggest thing. I'm thrilled we took out sadam. I read somewhere (please don't ask me to quote where because I'm not gonna take the time to look it up) that Clinton had the chance to get bin laden and he didn't. That scares the bejeebies outta me.

My second concern is taxes. I don't want to pay any more than I do now, and I liked getting the $400 or whatever it was last year. nuff said.

Carol

Well said my friend - well said!!!! :xoxo:

Here's my two cents, don't spend it all in one place ( :laugh: ):

We've all seen what has happened in the last four years. I personally think it has done such incredible damage to our country that it will take a miracle to even begin repairing it. While you may like Bush as a person, look at his policies. Are you and the country better off than when Clinton was in office? Economically speaking, I say no. Socially speaking, I say no. When it comes to foreign policy? No way. It's the kind of election where you simply cannot vote for who you like better as a person, you have to vote for the person who will actually do something good while in office. :)

I am uncertain if Kerry will raise the taxes on the Middle Class. I think he has said he just wants to repeal the tax cuts for the people making $200,000 or more a year and he thinks the tax cuts scheduled to go into effect in the future or something like that should not be effectuated. He has a point because W cut taxes, which many but not all believe is an effective catalyst to promote economic growth. The problem is W then spent all of our money and went into debt. So, we cannot afford the future tax cuts. It would sort of be like taking a cut in pay and then maxing out all of your credit cards based on the hope that you get a slight raise in five years. That kind of economic policy is too liberal for me. Thus, I could not vote for W.

I knew you'd be one of the first to respond!
Totally not taken in an in-your-face kind of way! :xoxo:

I've read what you've said and will consider it all. I appreciate it, really.

And I admit I didn't watch all of the debates, and I'd like to know how Kerry plans to keep us safe. Like I told Amber, that's my biggest thing.

Carol (anxiously awaiting Dissention's post)
(oops again! Dissention must have posted while I was reading Strand's. I KNEW you two would be on top of this!) :xoxo:

The Clinton rumor has been debunked ten times over, it NEVER happened.

As for keeping us safe, I don't know what to say. :laugh: I don't want to piss you off because you like Bush, but what has he done to make us safe? Just this week it was reported that 400 tons of explosives just, poof, vanished into the air in Iraq, leaving no trace. He was asked about it today and he refused to comment. Colin Powell said he has no clue what's going on.

On August 6, 2001, he got a Presidential Daily Briefing titled "Bin Laden Determined To Strike Inside United States," wherein it stated he was going to hijack planes. Common sense says that you need to leap into action, but he stayed on vacation in Texas. He didn't get back to work until September 10th. Before Clinton left office, he told Bush that Al-Qaeda was the biggest threat, but Richard Clarke testified under oath that Bush disregarded everyhting about Al-Qaeda and concentrated solely on Iraq.

90% of all cargo that is brought into the US is NOT INSPECTED. People are allowed to bring four books of matches and two butane lighters onto commercial aircrafts...even after 9/11.

I don't think he's done a single thing to make us safer. He didn't go into Afghanistan until TWO MONTHS after 9/11. Obviously bin Laden was outta there.

Kerry only wants to raise taxes on the top 1%, the same as Clinton. He wants to keep the tax cuts for the middle class.

http://www.johnkerry.com/issues/economy/

Cut Middle-Class Taxes To Raise Middle-Class Incomes
When John Kerry is president, middle-class taxes will go down. Ninety-eight percent of all Americans and 99 percent of American businesses will get a tax cut under the Kerry-Edwards plan.

Create Good-Paying Jobs
As president, John Kerry will cut taxes for businesses that create jobs here in America instead of moving them overseas. John Kerry and John Edwards will also stand up for workers by enforcing our trade agreements.

http://www.johnkerry.com/pressroom/s...2004_0423.html

I will reform out of control spending by putting in place budget caps that assure Washington has to live within its means. I will cut waste and abuse out of our health care system by giving incentives for smarter more efficient systems.

I will reform corporate America by requiring corporations to report to their shareholders and what they report to the IRS. And I will reform our tax code by ending incentives for companies to send jobs overseas.

Government should take less money from the middle class, and do more to make sure their hard-earned tax dollars go to solve their real problems.

My plan will cut taxes to help middle-class families send their children to college, but it also includes reforms to make college affordable again, after three years of the steepest tuition inflation on record.

We need to take these steps to help our working families and we need to make sure that they are paid for. And I will pay for my education and health care plans by rolling back the Bush tax cuts for the wealthy.

Like white on rice. :xoxo:

LOL - Carol - it is so funny because Diss and I agree on the large issues and fight to the death :laugh: :rolleyes: in the minutia (sp.?)

:cool:


But seriously, I think W has not done a whole lot other than talk tough. As Bill Maher said, any idiot could have pointed to Afganistan and told the world's most powerful military to detroy it, which essentially is what W did. AND - I willingly admit that mission captured a significant number of OBL's main people, which was a good thing and made us on the whole safer. My problem with W on this issue is:

1. He let 9/11 happen - the buck stops with him whether the peices of the puzzle could have ever been put together or not, which is a hotly debated issue. But, assuming they could not, W has never even said he was sorry to the American people for letting it happen. He just assumes it was not his fault.

2. He allegedly had OBL in Tora Bora and caved into political pressure from Pakistan not to use them as a tool to get OBL. I think that shows weakness to a much larger degree than Kerry has ever shown.

3. Iraq. Like you, I was all for doing something about SH, because like W, Clinton, Kerry, and the unanimous UN - I thought SH was too dangerous a variable to leave unchecked and unaccountable to the first Gulf War accord where he agreed to prove he had disarmed. My beef with Iraq is W's almost rabid and inexplicable mad rush to remove SH. W could have waited a few more months for the UN inspections to end and maybe all of the those lives could have been spared - maybe the world would have gotten behind us, which could have averted war. I think that was a long shot, but three moths for 10's of thousands of lives - I'll wait that anyday, especially since W knew that SH was not the exigent nuclear threat W knowingly and erroneously alleged. Then, our troops were ill prepared as evidenced by the prison torturers, ill equipped as evidenced by parents selling personal items to buy bullet proof vests and other needed items, and ill planned as evidenced by the utter turmoil in Iraq right now and the loss of like 300 tons of munitions that the UN told the US was there and to watch it. I mean those are HUGE mistakes which probably could have been avoided with more planning and training, which W inexplicably just refused to do.

4. I have a huge problem with someone who willingly lies to send other peoples' kids to their deaths in the name of our nation when he himself refused to go overseas and do the same. Moreover, Cheney himself got several deferrments because because he said he had "better things to do." I mean that is an outrage to me. And these people are the ones who are supposed to be the fearless and unflinching leaders they tout themselves as. Conversely, Kerry volunterred to go into battle. I know there is an alleged issue surrounding the severity of his wounds, but all of those medals certainly could not have been forged. Moreover, Kerry went while W and Dick played possum. I think that more than anything shows bravery and integrity on Kerry's behalf and none on the behalf of W and Dick.

That is why I think W cannot keep us safe and Kerry can :cool:

I am still...
 

undecided, Just something makes me NOT want to vote for Herman-Munster even though I do like Edwards (Shrub/Dick is outta the question)...So I will more-than-likely vote for the Green party candidates.

I am more interested in the state laws that are on the ballot for Oklahoma...Most should pass (Including the lameass state lottery question) except the law to add an amendment to legalize gay marriage (Currently about 77% of Oklahomans are against this law...Well the 2 straight married adults in this household are voting for it to pass, So we are in the very small minority!)

Btw, Brad Carson is now behind in the polls here for the US Senate with Tom Coburn pulling ahead...Not good news for those Demos who are wanting control of the US Senate.

Brian j.

That's a lie.

Frankly, I have to tell you that it's quite irritating to me that you are too lazy to do a simple search of this board, read the paper, watch television, etc. and make an informed decision for yourself and then come here and ask people to convince you to vote for Kerry one week before the most important election in our lifetimes.
It is precisely this mindset in our country that has landed us where we are today-less safe, in debt, all of our good jobs being sent off overseas, civil rights being eroded, social programs for the poor and working poor being slashed.
With respect to your $400 tax break-enjoy it because you are paying dearly for it in many ways. Have you noticed the price of food and gas recently? Are you comfortable that our borders are unprotected and all of the cargo coming into this country is unscreened because there is no money to pay for it? Does that make you feel safer?
What is it that you like so much about Bush? Is it the fact that he's pro life, yet executed 160 people while governor of Texas? Was it his performance in the debates? How about lying to get us into an illegal war? We got Saddam, yeah. The f*cker wasn't going anywhere. We had him cornered. You know what would really impress me? Finding Osama Bin Laden-but your "friend" George isn't interested in finding him, says he doesn't care where he is. Pro military, support the troops do you? Geroge Bush was AWOL, Dick Cheney had FIVE deferrments and John Ashcroft had SEVEN. They had other priorities, I guess.
Did you mention you just took some kind of exam? Studying medicine? Nursing? Guess what? If your "friend" George gets elected, YOU WIN A FREE TRIP TO IRAQ! :] That's right. People with medical skills will be drafted for the huge casualties we are going to suffer in the ensuing massive battles post election so George and Haliburton can win the war! Woohoo! Hell, you might even get to see Iran or Syria for free too!
Now before this thread gets up to 100 posts, I must admit, Carol, Violet, whatever your name is, your writing style seems hauntingly familiar to me. So please, if in your heart, you are serioulsy having doubts about incurious George, do your homework. This is serious. :)

Yay, Green! that's how i'm choosing all my propositions to vote for and stuff...

Oh Jesus. He did it to himself by saying he wasn't running on the Dem ticket and all that other whacked out behavior of the last few weeks. Hopefully, Jim Bunning will lose his seat in Kentucky since he's too senile to debate or speak in public. :rolleyes:
I do not wish "Dr. Death" Coburn on anyone.
Please do not waste your vote in this election on a third party candidate. It translates into absolutely nothing. JMHO.

Well...
 

what hurt him is the new Pro-Repub ads, One which show an animated Brad Carson dancing in Washington DC with 2 people Oklahomans cannot stand:

Hill-billy Clinton & Ted "Where's the bar/Where's my drink" Kennedy

I find the commercial funny as hell cause Hill-billy looks so damn realistic...Especially her salute!!!! Bwahahahahahahahahaha!!!!!!!

Kinda funny but I emailed Brad Carson's campaign to ask about the rumor you heard about of Carson switching parties, His campaign chairperson emailed me back saying that rumor started with Tom Coburn's chairperson as a smear tactic...And the tactic has been "erroneously" been picked up by the Democratic National Party as being a fact.

As for a vote for the independent/third party being a waste that translate into nothing, Sorry I do not see it that way...I talked to a person last night as I was pumping gas into my car and this 30-something African American male said the same thing I believe, "The candidates for President leave alot to be desired...Doesnt matter who wins, Nothing will change."

I cannot bring myself to vote for a candidate that I do not like, That being both Bush & Kerry, and I will not waste my vote that way...but it is my right and my vote to CHOOSE who I vote for, Even if it as you say "It translates into absolutely nothing" (Please do not take my post as a personal attack because it is not, I just disagree with you is all :nod: )

Brian j.

Peter Garrett...
 

is no longer a member of Midnight Oil? I didnt know that...I liked his political activism, Only one of the few musicians who activism I care to read about (With John Lennon, Bob Geldof & Bono being the others).

Brian j.

ps-Offtopic-Hey Lux, Are ya going to purchase the "Page & Plant Unledded" DVD? It was released yesterday and plan to purchase it...

Lord this thread has gone from Zeppelin to abortion - :laugh:

In sum and to paraphrase a wonderfully pithy friend of mine "I'd piss on a spark plug if I thought it would help defeat W" :eek: :laugh: :wavey: :angel:

And the Bush camp. knows that that is one of the top things on the minds of Americans - they are therefore using fear as a campaign tactic....and that sucks - because it's a powerful tool - playing on people's fears....

and - it just boggles my mind that people are so willing to give W a free pass on failing to prevent 9/11. The evidence was there - they just failed to put it all together. While I readily admit, it would have taken a lot of breaks and luck to do so, the Bush Adminsitration by all accounts of the people who were there, were not really concentrating on Al-Q and instead were looking at ways to invade Iraq. So, some fault must be assigned to them. AND - what do they say about that - they certainly did not apologize or even seem contrite. THEN - they did not learn from their mistake in that instead of continuing to pursue Al-Q (the people that attacked us here and elsewhere) - they refocused on Iraq and went into a wqar that perhaps could have been prevented and most certainly was based on a false premise (immediate threat to the U.S. if SH was not removed) - yet, once again, they were wrong and did they apologize - no. Instead, they justify the death of tens of thousands of innocent Iraqi's (again we are there because the common Iraqi is our friend and we are trying to help them) and over 1,000 U.S. soldiers with countless others on all sides severly injured - by saying America was justified because SH was a "bad guy" - That excuse fails with me and I am appalled anyone would accept it, esp. considering W said he would not go to war on ANY resaon other than the case where Amercia was in immediate danger from a direct threat :shrug:

Then, the whole post-Iraq scenario has been a total scew up from day one, which again, could have been somewhat avoided if we had taken our time and actually prepared to go into Iraq. Alas, W did not and now we are paying the price for it.

That is correct. :nod:

Make no mistake, I am not against the Greens or any other third party. but there are a few things to consider. Democracy begins from the ground up. The best way to change the system is to start at the bottom, build a strong base and then get your cnadidates elected to a national office. It's pretty offensive to me that some of our tax dollars will be spent of federal matching funds to help these people mount their campaigns when they have no chance in winning and some of them are present as spoilers in the race.
By thinking that there is nothing you or I or anyone can do-"Doesnt matter who wins, Nothing will change."-that is the ultimate capitulation. That is right where they want us, cynical, divided and without hope.

I don't usually get involved in these threads, but here goes:

Violet, have you seen Fahrenheit 9-11? Yes, it may be a slanted viewpoint of Michael Moore's, but it's a lot more factual than the Bush administration has been with America. I don't like being lied to. Period. I've always been a Democrat, however, even I was a lifelong Republican? After seeing F 9-11, I would want Bush and his entire administration out of the white house asap.

You shouldn't base your vote on "I like his personality and that other guy looks like Herman Munster," or whatever...I'm sure George Bush would be a lot of fun to go fishing with and hang out and drink with, etc. (which is what he does best) But he and his entire administration must go!!

I agree...
 

but I feel that a 2 party system has made some of us divided & without hope...While both may have good ideas and thoughts when it comes down to the brass tacks, Their ideas will only cover those who line up behind those beliefs of each individual party.

The 2 party system reminds me of shopping for music, (I will use this as my comparison) When I shop for music I usually tend to buy what is good to my ears, Not what is currently the "flavor of the week" or trendy for the moment...I decide what I like, Not some 'suit behind a desk hoping for the next big cookie cutting pile of dog**** trend'.

It seems politics as of late has become too devisive, Like music, Whereas ya have "Conservatives", "Liberals", "Independents", "Anarchists", etc and with music ya have genres-"Pop", "Country", "Rap", "Rock", etc. When ya shop for music it is because you like what you hear, Not because you are being led to like what the corporates want you to like to benefit their labels (Or as in this country what the political system wants you to like to benefit their parties.)

If you tend to listen to a certain genre of music, Be it "Pop", "County", "Rap", etc. Sure 'nuff yer goin' to find someone who will jump on yer tastes because it conflicts with their personal tastes...They will constantly bombard yer ass until ya line up behind that lemmin gravy train and give in. Sorry, I cannot do that...Seems the same thing with politics, Yer bombarded "Over & Over" until yer the next lemmin in line goin' over that "big ol' cliff", I cannot do that either.

"I have this moronic thing I do, It's called thinking. I like to think and formulate opinions and thoughts for myself"-George Carlin

Brian j.

And Fahrenheit 9-11 isn't exactly flattering towards the Democrats either-no matter what you might have heard from Repugs attacking Michael Moore. When I saw it for the first time, I left the theater so angry that I wanted to vote for Nader. Diss famously asked me had I been smoking crack after I posted my review of the documentary here and expressed that feeling here on the Ledge. He however successfully talked me down from my redheaded fit and made me return to sanity and firmly commit to the Democrats once again. I'd suggest everyone see it, no matter what their political orientation. It makes you think and isn't that what documentaries are supposed to do?

Wow...First of all, I haven't read further than your post, yet. And I'm not going to respond to everything you said.
I will answer a few questions you had. No, I didn't take exam. Depo is short for deposition. I'm a court reporter and took a deposition of a neonatologist.

Second (going out of order of your post, sorry) I have NO idea why my writing style seems hauntingly familiar. If I remind you of someone somewhere you didn't like, sorry, but it's not me.

I am trying to do my homework; hence my post. Is it a little late in the game? Yes. Sorry about that, too. Like I said in my first post, I am just starting to question whether I'll vote for Bush or not. So I am trying to find out more about Kerry. I have already read all the negative things people on this board feel about bush, and that's why I asked for positives on Kerry. I don't watch a lot of news because my husband is in the business, and I'm too jaded to believe most of what is aired.

As for the price of food and gas, duh. of course i've noticed gas has gone up. But as for food, I can't really say I've noticed because I moved from FL to NJ and EVERYTHING is more expensive here.

Oh, and thanks for calling me lazy for not looking up prior posts. I was looking for specific info on Kerry, not bush bashing. Guess I should have known I'd get it anyway.

Going to read the other two pages of posts. I couldn't get on the Ledge last night. So I have to catch up.

Carol (my real name. Violet is my cat's name)

so, have we convinced you?

Here--this is from DailyKos.com and he summarizes this better than I can.

1. Kerry is the only candidate in the race with significant experience in both domestic policy and foreign policy. He won't need much "on-the-job training" in any field; he'll be able to hit the ground running, as it were.

2. Kerry has the best environmental record of all the candidates. He has a 96% lifetime rating from the League of Conservation Voters and earned the earliest endorsement they've ever given in a Presidential race. Some specific highlights of his environmental record include leading the fight against Republican attempts to weaken the Clean Air Act, being one of the first to threaten and then organize a filibuster against recent Republican attempts to allow drilling in ANWR, and authoring important 1994 amendments to the 1972 Marine Mammal Protection Act and a 1990 law to protect marine mammals from driftnet fishing. (People who think he's exaggerated his role on these issues should ask themselves why the LCV would have endorsed him so enthusiastically and so early if that were the case.) There's a lot more, though; those who are interested can look at LCV's summary webpage on him or the more lengthy PDF profile it links to.

3. Kerry has a solidly liberal overall voting record that's earned him a 93% lifetime rating from Americans for Democratic Action. For those who want a specific example of an important vote for an unpopular liberal cause, note that he voted against the Defense of Marriage Act-- which even Paul Wellstone voted for. He also voted against the 2001 Bush tax cuts, contrary to the claims some have made here.

4. Kerry's record has an element of economic moderate-ness very consistent with the successful Clintonian recipe for economic growth. He voted for not only Clinton's 1993 deficit-cutting budget but also the 1980s Gramm-Rudman-Hollings deficit-control law, and he favors free trade, albeit with labor and environmental protections built into any new trade agreements we sign.

5. Kerry's tax plan gets rid of the Bush tax cuts for the wealthy, but not those for the middle class. The middle of the Bush recession is not the most economically appropriate time to raise taxes significantly on most consumers; repealing the tax cuts for the wealthy is sufficient to get rid of most of the distributional unfairness from the Bush tax cuts and get back a decent portion of the lost revenue.

6. Kerry has more of a record of accomplishment in the Senate than a lot of people think. He spearheaded important investigations into the Iran-Contra affair and the Bank of Credit and Commerce International, taking on Republican administrations in the process. He's authored successful environment-related bills, cosponsored others, and played leading roles in the fights against rolling back many existing environmental laws, as mentioned in #4. In any case, I can't think offhand of many legislators with more than a couple of specific accomplishments in their names; most of being a legislator is working on and voting on bills that other people have officially authored. And in that respect, Kerry has done a lot of good over the years, as evidenced by his ADA and LCV ratings.

7. Kerry's Vietnam war experience means that he knows what war is really like, unlike the various Republican "chickenhawks". And Kerry's heroism as an officer during the war shows that as an executive leader in a crisis, he can make quick and courageous decisions.

8. Kerry's health-care proposal combines coverage for more Americans with a plan to control rising healthcare costs. I've been unable to track down the relevant link so far, but my recollection is that for this reason it got the highest rating of all the candidates' plans from some nonpartisan group that looked at the plans last fall.

Gees! It hasn't even been 24 hours since my first post! As gldstwmn so eloquently said, I need to be more informed! So I will be going to John Kerry's website today. As well as talking to relatives who plan to vote for Kerry. Believe it or not, The Ledge isn't the only resource I have! :wavey:

Carol

Interesting point. However, this year, I feel, it is not just about what appeals to your particular ear. We truly, this time, are all in this together and must approach it as such. The greater good of our country is at stake here.

I agree - the effect of four more years of "guns a blarin shoot now and ask questions later - Christian America is the only important thing in the world - bring on the rapture we are ready for it" Bush is so devastating I would vote for a hole in a tree if I thought it could defeat W. Fortunately, Kerry is better than a hole in a tree :laugh: :rolleyes:

That's okay. My main intent was to provoke thought.

Shit dude...
 

don't give 'em any ideas...Bad enough I have to live in the heart of the Bible belt and have to see these "F**ktards" on a daily basis & their "master plan for God, the Bible & Halliburton" world domination schemes :nod:

As for me, I still like the ol' saying "Anybody but Bush"...And yes, That means ANY independent is better than "Moses' burnin' Shrub"!!!! (Kinda funny cause my Mother's family name is Moses...Bwahahahahahahahaha!!!!!)

Brian "W. was on Mt.Cyanide and God spoke through a burning SHRUB" j.

We are, but that's the way people are always discouraged from voting outside one of the big two. And I think until everyone starts voting for who they really want - that races will still always be dominated by the big ONE party, big money, which is what both parties really cater to. The parties are highly flawed, and there won't be actual change unless people start voting for actual change. Which means voting outside the parties.
I will be voting for Kerry, but isn't the greater good always at stake? But we keep only having the choice of voting for one of two greater bads. And we always have to vote for big money.
AMber

I think everyone should remember...
 

that a vote for any other party other than Democrat or Republican is giving the edge to the Republicans. The race is so close that if you are absolutely sure you want rid of W, you need to vote for Kerry. If Bush is elected for another 4 years, it wouldnt surprise me if a lot of us aren't here to discuss the next election. He will war his way in way over his head and the US will pay.

I guess depending...
 

on what state you reside in, Such as larger populated states like Ca-li-for-niE & Flori-DUH (Home of the "voting Bermuda Rectangle"), that would be true, But here in Oklahoma a vote for anyone other than Shrub will not matter in helping Kerry to win this state since polls have already predicted a Shrub win by 35% over Kerry next Tuesday.

Last Demo to win Oklahoma was the original JFK in 1960.

Brian j.