CarneVaca is banned permanently
 

Please get the facts out in the open. I know the guy himself wouldn't mind if the board reveals what he's done wrong. It's nothing to be proud of, but please let us see things in perspective....

gerald

I would like to know what got him a final strike and why he is permanantely banned. I must admit I'm sorry to hear he won't be coming back

Pip

****.

Yes come on, out in the open!! Why all the secrecy?!




edit... oh, so there's a filter now? aargh. Kutzooi.

Kut indeed. And perkele even. You can not sweep this under the carpet that easily.

yeah, i want answers too.
unless a reasonably convincing explenation is provided, i'll have to see this banning as an undemocratic act, and a very coward one i might add.
i respect everyone who maintains and deals with these boards, so please, don't shatter my faith like that, make it a highly-convincing one.
thanks.

What the hell did he say wrong? That's what I wanna know.

I didn't always agree with him and I found some of his posts rude, but come on. Banning him is ridiculous.

-Kate

While I do think there needs to be limits placed on how far we're allowed to go here, and, some of his posts were over the top anger wise, aren't we all some form of internet family here? Look at the outpouring of support for him here.
Like it or not, moderaters, he's one of us. I think you mods might be losing your credibility by this heartless decision.
Please show some heart, and rescind his banning. :xoxo:

Can someone please explain what warranted The Ledge losing one of its most interesting members??:mad:

I'm not going to do this (because I don't know anything regarding the circumstances under which he has been banned), but if I started a poll saying "Should CarneVaca be allowed back on The Ledge" I am sure that the high majority of Ledgies would say YES.

:( Add me to the list of those who want Carne back. I disagreed with him a lot, but he is part of what makes the Ledge the Ledge.
Bring back CarneVaca!

I COULD, BUT I THINK IT'S UP TO THE MODERATORS and Marty to explain their verdict.

The guy has pushed it too far, and did some things that don't deserve the beautyprize, but I think it's ridiculous to ban someone who uses the edges of the virtual reality. We're part of it. But someone who is so interesting in the debate and in his love for the music we are talking about deserves a lot of credit. I wrote a PM to Marty and all Moderators about ten days ago asking for "seeing things in perspective" and the answer was that they took it in consideration. My question is: In what sense was my pleed taken in consideration?

I've been a very good mannered boy in this case and have bitten my tongue off for almost two weeks now. But I'm on the edge of letting loose what I know before the board can give answers.

i see no "official" statement coming this way gerald, i say go ahead. :shrug:

I haven't been browsing much through other threads but a couple of Survivor games in the last ten days (too busy working) so I've just read about the Carne situation. I don't know what he has done or said but I hope in moderators' noble-mindedness :angel:

Romy

Permanently?

You cannot be serious.

Bring back that Carne Vaca!!!

It's not my place to say, but I think he was banned for pretty ridiculous reasons, IMO.

He needs to be allowed to come back to the board, it is not the same without him and, as you all can see, no one wants him to leave the board other than the moderators who decided to ban him. Bring Carne back!

What were those reasons? I can't understand why everyone is being so coy. :shrug:

Marty asked me to hold my breath for a little while.
I will.

But I am VERY VERY dissapointed. :( :(

Well then I really think it is important for us to despite our differences support the owner and moderators who despite personal beliefs I am sure have taken a just action because I resepect them enough to believe they wouldn't do something unjust.

Tynan

True! But something CAN be "not unjust" and still be totally unreasonable given the situation.

and the thread was moved because..?
wouldn't be the first off topic thread on another ledge, so what's the big deal. Smells like a cover-up to me. Ah yes, let's put it on the bottom board that no one reads. :mad:

Who HASN'T at times? :shrug:

This thread was not moved as part of a "cover-up." It was deemed that since CarneVaca is not a member of the Rumours lineup of Fleetwood Mac, and since the thread pertains instead to a situation that has arisen on the Ledge boards, it would be moved to the appropriate place.

This has been done on many occasions in the past, and is nothing unusual.

Historically, it has not been the policy of the Ledge moderators to publicly discuss the reasons behind strikes and bans (so as to avoid embarrassing a poster if they don't want that information revealed), but due to the unusual number of requests we feel it is necessary to clear up any misinterpretations surrounding CarneVaca's ban. So this statement is being made as a courtesy.

Despite doubts to the contrary, our decision to ban CarneVaca had absolutely nothing to do with his criticism of the way the Ledge is run, or any criticisms directed at the moderators.

It was found that CarneVaca was using two additional usernames, Dulcimer and NoThatFunny, to deceptively engage in the harassment and debasement of other users (not to mention casting multiple votes in the Survivor games), going back and forth between his usernames to post taunts and insults, so as to perpetuate the arguments even after he had claimed to have bowed out as CarneVaca.

Such actions were deemed as willful, calculated, serious breaches of the FAQ, and certainly against the overall friendly environment we hope to maintain on The Ledges.

Based on our FAQs, harassment, taunting, and excessive insults are clearly against the rules.

There is not an explicit rule in the guidelines forbidding the possession of multiple usernames, as it has always been believed that rationality would dictate that the use of multiple usernames to deliberately and clandestinely engage in strike-worthy behavior would not be tolerated. In the real world, the adoption of an alias does not exonerate someone of any wrong-doing they may have engaged in under another name, and the same holds true here.

CarneVaca has not been banned for having multiple usernames, but for the way in which he used them. However, in the future such similar actions will automatically earn three strikes and a ban. Additionally, all strikes will now be accompanied by a minimum 48-hour temporary ban.

We were not at all happy about having to ban CarneVaca, and in fact a great deal of consideration and discussion went into our decision. It pained us, but we also couldn’t stand by and allow the rules against harassment/taunting/insulting behavior in the FAQ to be continually and willfully violated.

We also knew others would not be happy about our decision, and we took this into consideration at all times, but CarneVaca’s behavior ultimately created a hostile environment and is strike-worthy. Taking into account that he already possessed two strikes (which he’s publicly stated in the past), he was therefore awarded his third strike and banned.

The ban has been issued and is final, it is not up for debate. People are free to comment on the decision, but should watch that their responses are measured and do not violate the FAQ. Polls to bring back CarneVaca will be promptly closed.

Although some may disagree with the decision even after knowing what happened, the moderators still feel that the decision is in the best interest of all Ledgies, and had to be made in order to uphold the FAQ.

- The Ledge Moderators

Yeah, but I assume they have to stick to their rules, even sometimes when they may not want to. Cause otherwise, why have strikes and rules and such?
AMber

That reminds me - I notice that i can't change my user name. Do I have to use Amber forever? I'm not trying to trick anyone, I just like to try out different names, like we can change our signatures. Is this, like it seems to be, impossible? Will I be forever Amber?
AMber

:] :] :] :] :] :]

You could always be AMber. :xoxo:

I really can't believe that Carne has been banned for good. I know that he won't be allowed back and that this decision is final, but it still strikes me as petty.

I talked to Carne earlier this weekend and, I must ask, why did it take so long to catch on that he was using multiple usernames? I thought it was obvious that one of them was Dulcimer, which has been a username on this board for two years! Honestly, I see no difference in the things he posted to goad and antagonize others than what other users post to antagonize others. We're almost all guilty of it, Carne was just more eloquent about it.

The two threads that I believe he got in hot water over, "What the hell...?" and the "Tusk Survivor," confound me. It was clearly stated in the "What the hell" thread that he would not be banned for criticism over how the board is run. So, why has he been banned for using multiple usernames to criticize the moderators? :laugh:

I know the case is closed, but it still leaves a bad taste in my mouth. :sorry:

But penguins post says explicitly he was not banned for multiple user names, but for what he said under those user names. Not that i agree, or Dissagree :laugh: but that's just what the post said...
I can't even change my username to AMber...But actually I wanted to do "Catinthedark" and was suprised no one had that yet....
AMber

Yes, but I simply don't see his comments under those usernames as being ban-worthy. :sorry:

oh, yeah, I can't, and wasn't, speaking as to that...I might've found them so, had I been a mod., with rules, and two previous strikes...but i'm not a mod, and can say that i will miss Carne - he usually didn't piss me off, cause he was always like that so i expected it...also cause i like drama. And also, I'm just not, by nature, a "banner", I would've just told him he was an arse, but apparently the mods did, at least 2 times (the strikes) and probably more. Maybe they were thinking, "How many times do we have to tell you, etc." or something. I dunno. I kinda wish i could email him, though, or something...I'm kinda feeling sad... :(
AMber

I don't think it would make sense to keep explaining things, but I'd just like to make clear that he wasn't banned for using multiple usernames to post criticisms about the Ledge.
In fact, he posted those criticisms exclusively under the CarneVaca name, and those criticisms were never even an issue to begin with. Marty and I are both big boys, and could handle it. :)

It's just like we said... he was banned for his actions regarding the treatment of others, which violated our guidelines.

The respectful tone of your post, dissention, is appreciated. :nod: :)

I went back and read a lot of the exchanges. I wouldn't necessarily consider them "ban-worthy", but those posts between the three of him are really on the narcissistic-creepy side.... One of the response posts to Dulcimer says something along the lines of "I don't think Carne needs your help to support his point". :eek: Creeeeeeepy!! I guess he did need Dulcimer's (his own) help after all... (I feel a weird Sybil moment coming on any moment now).

While I think that maybe Carne thought that he was having fun, I don't think he may have realized just to what extent his "gamesmanship" was having on other posters. Jacob was getting pretty upset from the demeanor of his response posts, and looking in hindsight, it appears that Carne was getting quite a lot of glee out of his tag-team plays. Surely, he was smart enough to know he would get caught. Several posters correctly guessed in the threads that NoThatFunny was, indeed, Carne in disguise. I guess he just didn't think anyone would make that big a deal about it.

I don't know, but I think that Carne was banned for some pretty lame reasons. :sorry:

Everyone's done something to piss off a moderator or fellow Ledgie. Each and every one of us have, admit it. What's gonna happen the next time someone hits a nerve with a moderator? Are they going to be banned? I'm not saying that people should be able to get away with everything, but what Carne did was just immature, if you want to call it that. It wasn't anything horrible and nothing that could *truly* be rendered offensive. Now, I don't know the whole story behind this, keep in mind. But from what I could tell, he didn't say anything really offensive. I didn't bother with the original Tusk Survivor thread in the end, since it got pretty lame with all of the bickering and whatnot. That didn't offend me or anything, though. I just thought it was childish. There have been plenty of immature posts and a few real offensive posts here and there, but do you see any of the people posting them getting banned/reprimanded/whatever? No, you don't. It's just not fair that you're banning Carne when the absolute worst thing he did was cheat in a silly little game by using a different screen name. And I agree with Dissention in that what he said was not worthy of a ban. Maybe a warning or a temporary suspension, but a ban? Sheesh.

[throws two cents onto table]

-Kate

That's what i could be tempted to think, but then on the other side, remember, he already had 2 STRIKES. Which means he had been sufficiently warned as to the rules, and why people get banned and striked. He coulda modified, with that much warning and all. Not saying it's right, but just pointing out a possible other side....
AMber

idont think everyone has, i dont think i have

chris

You did back in your Bush-lovin' days. :laugh: j/k

I was never a BUSH lover.....I like to refer to those days to simply being mis informed.. If I had known what he really stands for I would have never supported him, but I was supporting him based on only what he was saying..not what was REALLY happening.

Chris

I know, I'm only joshing ya. :p

Hi Kate:

Apparently you didn't read the following part of the statement from the Moderators:

Despite doubts to the contrary, our decision to ban CarneVaca had absolutely nothing to do with his criticism of the way the Ledge is run, or any criticisms directed at the moderators.

We have never awarded strikes or bans based on treatment of the moderators, in fact, we are extremely careful never to let our personal feelings influence our deliberations.

Barbara

Well, not nesicarily "piss off", but pretty much EVERYONE has disagreed with someone. And lots of people take that to heart. That's what I meant to say.

-Kate

Then What DID cause the ban. Danm you people don't like giving clear answers. If it wasn't the critisism and it wasn't the fake names (which is actually a shock to me, i never would've guessed, but it does proove all those times SMAP stayed in Survivor was invalid) then WTF caused the strikes. I think it's personal, and don't try to say it isn't. I believe we've all stepped to CV's level. And some have done worse. Why doesn't HomerMcVie have a strike for his recind the goat sig. That's been bothering me forever (ignore this HMCvie just making a point) I find him far more offensive then CV. And I'd even call Dissention more offensive then CV (again just making a point Dissention I still like you) I think during that Survivor game "I" even got pretty down and dirty and I was definitely doing as much harrassing as you like to say as CV did. And whats with that harassing. What would you consider harassing. I didn't see any. The only thing he did wrong was try to fix the Survivor game and all you had to do was ban his 2 alliases.


And since you said in that quote above that it doesn't matter what we say to the moderators then YOU MODERATORS SUCK!!!!!.
.
And why are some people moderators who don't contribute one danmed thing to the boards. JS is an active member and of course Marty's VERY important who aside from some very very bad judgement does an amazing job with this place. And Janet's good. But other then that, WTF is witht his Barbara person who pops up now to make a decision but never does Sh*t overwise.