Meryl Streep
 

I love Meryl Streep, but does anyone think that even she can make the remake of "The Manchurian Candidate" any good? Denzel Washington is a horrible actor, so any movie that stars him is like sitting thorugh a root canal, IMO. So, it's already got one strike against it. :laugh:

I watched Sophie's Choice last night again just to brush up on some Meryl and that's still a devastating movie. Probably the most depressing film ever made. :eek:

Yeah, I think she can make it "any good" as far as it goes. If you don't like Denzel, and if the writing is bad, the only thing left will be her good performance. Hopefully the writing will be good, but remember, Meryl is a pretty "natural" actress - her performance may not be bigger than life, and be able to take over the whole movie and all that. Her performances are always good, but saving a whole movie if everything else is bad? i dunno. On the plus side, the writing may be good, because she usually picks projects with good writing - she has pretty good taste. I don't care much for Denzel either, but i don't *hate* him as much as you :p .
AMber

Meryl is a true talent - maybe the best actor alive. I just bought Stuck On You & watched her restaurant scene last night.

There are definitely more depressing movies than Sophie's Choice, IMO. Playing For Time comes to mind. At least there's love at the end of SC.

BTW, I did not see the roast of her that aired recently.

- Jake

I saw clips. The people I saw were just making jokes about how perfect, nice, and awe-inspiring she was. And I think telling stories. Not as "roast-ie" as some roasts, I imagine :laugh:
AMber

I never saw Playing For Time, but I did see Sophie's Choice when it first came out. I had no idea what the "choice" was and when they got to that scene, I about died. It's a powerful scene regardless, but when you're not prepared for it, it's absolutely awful.

Meryl is a great actress.

My mom read the book before the movie came out & told me what the choice was, so I knew before I saw the movie. Really, the movie is about several of her choices.
BTW, Gloria Steinem wrote a stinging diatribe against the book as sexist trash years ago.

- Jake

And BTW, PFT is maybe the most powerful Holocaust movie I've seen.

- Jake

I'll have to rent that. My dad was Jewish and I had relatives in Europe back around all that. Fortunately they made it out.

As for Sophie's Choice, I subsequently read the book. It's been a long time, but I remember it being too long.

PFT was a telemovie, so I doubt you'll find it to rent. Won Emmys, I think. I have the book, but the movie (based on the play, based on the book) is even better. Rarely is a movie better than a book. But I suppose SC is as well, from what I hear.

- Jake

Actually, Jake, I just did a search on blockbuster.com and it is out on video, but they don't carry it close to me. I'll have to search for it. Since we're on the subject of Holocaust movies, what did you think of Schindler's List?

I always compare it to PFT, which for me was more effective emotionally. SL is art, & I appreciate Spielberg's mission & vision, but it lacked the intimacy between audience & characters that comes from following one or two victims in depth.

- Jake

Yes I can see where that would be more emotionally compelling. You've given me a mission to find PFT. Thanks for the tip. You're not all bad! :xoxo:

Such flattery! Keep it to yourself. I have my reputation to downhold.
Let me know what you think of the film. It's almost about twenty-five years old by now but I think it probably holds up well. For a color film it really captures the bleakness of the landscape.
BTW, in case you don't know, it stars Vanessa Redgrave (remember the controversy?), Jane Alexander, and the actress who played Michael's cousin on Thirtysomething.

- Jake

Meryl is one of the finest actors of her generation, or any generation, for that matter. Anyone who is compared to Katharine Hepburn is no slouch. :)

And I love that as dignified as she appears in many movies, she doesn't take herself too seriously in others. She seems cool.

- Jake

Sorry, Sophie and Nathan committing suicide after she's just admitted that she offered up her own child to be sacrificed at a concentration camp isn't love; their whole relationship was based upon desperation rather than love. I think it's the most depressing thing I've ever seen and I've seen Requiem For A Dream. :laugh:

I had seen the movie before I read the book and it was one of the most disturbing things I had ever seen. The book, however, was better because it went into a lot more depth about Nathan. In the movie, he really is just a stock character, whereas in the book he plays a much bigger role and his relationship with Sophie is way more fleshed out. If I have one complaint about the movie, it's that they did a very poor job of portraying their relationship. The final scene is also much better in the book, there's more dread and an 'Is this really happening?' feeling.

As for Gloria Steinem, everyhting she said during the 70s went out the window when she got married. Talk about your hypocrites.

Playing For Time is on video, but it's quite hard to find. We watched it in history class when I was in high school and Jake's right, it is a powerful film. Vanessa Redgrave was so good that I can't even describe it. The Germans in that film infuriated me moreso than in any other Holocaust movie. My grandmother taped it when it was on HBO back in the 80s and I have it here somewhere.

It's for sale at Amazon for $30:

http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/tg...glance&s=video

Ah! I DO remember the Vaness Redgrave controversy, even though I never saw the movie. I'm on a mission....

Gee, spoil the ending for people, why don't you. ;)
I think there was love there. I'm certainly not romanticizing suicide, but there was love between these characters.

- Jake

I thought the movie ending was a bit weak, but I didn't see it until a couple of years ago, so maybe it had more power on its release.

I don't agree with everything Gloria said or says, but peopl's opinions do change as they grow. I wouldn't dismiss everything she said for a decade just because she had a change of heart.

- Jake

When you mentioned being infurioriated, I flahed on seeing the baby scene and the choose your friend scene in Escape From Sobibor a few months ago. Not as good of a film, but those parts were horrific.

Vanessa Redgrave is an amazing actress, & Jane Alexander is also great in PFT.

- Jake

It's a 22 year old movie, if they haven't seen it by now, f*ck 'em. :lol:

I think there was a love there, but I don't think it was as passionate a love affair as they thought it was. They loved and cared about each other because of need and lonliness, not because they were soulmates. They were both heavily messed up and stayed together out of desperation and loyalty.

The ending was quite weak in the movie, I've always disliked it.

The fact that Gloria dismissed almost everything she said speaks volumes, my dear. I mean, she went overboard for overboard's sake. "An act of penetration is an act of rape" and all; she didn't even believe half the stuff she said.

I can't say I necessarily agree based on the movie. I'm guessing that the book gave you extra insights, but based on the movie alone the love seemed pretty passionate.

- Jake

I didn't see that one. I'll look it up on the IMDB to see more about it. ;)

Vanessa Redgrave is fantastic. Her books were great, too; she got pretty in-depth about her support for Palestine and the effect it had on her career.

I don't think it was for overboard's sake, there was a greater goal. I think it was the great Gerda Lerner who said (or maybe she just quoted somebody else) that when a scale has long been tipped far in favor of one side, you've got to press down hard on the other side to get the fastest balance. Like any movement, feminism evolves over time, and the leaders are not stagnant either.

- Jake

I thought the movie exemplified that aspect of their relationship, albeit a bit less than in the book. But, I guess it is up to interpretation. ;)

And I don't disagree. But Gloria Steinem, for the most part, exploited other women to advance her "cause," the very same cause that she called "over the top" as late as 2000. Look what she did to Linda Lovelace and others like her; she used them for all the publicity she could get, made some ridiculous comments when the media showed up, and then threw the women away like they were yesterdays garbage. She championed feminism, but became what she supposedly despised in the process.

I think this is an unfair assessment. Gloria championed Linda at a time when many people were inclined to bash her. And I hardly think she threw women away like garbage. I do not always agree with Gloria's opinions, but I would not call her a user.

- Jake

I would when it comes to Linda Lovelace, even Lovelace thinks so (or did, bless her soul). Gloria didn't champion her, she used her for her own agenda and when she couldn't get anymore out of her, she forgot about her. People still bashed her when Gloria around, but with Gloria's presence, the bashing took on a life of its own. Gloria Steinem is just as much to blame for Lovelace's horrible life as Lovelace's old husband was.

You equate Gloria's alleged abandonment with a husband's alleged abuse that included holding a gun on his wife to make her perform acts on animals? I don't know how to begin reasoning with that.
:shocked: :shocked: :shocked:

- Jake

I don't mean it that way. I mean that Steinem's exploitation of her impacted her life in just as much of a negative way as what her husband supposedly did. Obviously, the acts aren't the same, but the effects of both forms of exploitation are. Where was Steinem and all the other feminists when Lovelace was on welfare and couldn't afford to buy her necessary liver medication? Where were they when she needed a double masectomy? Where were they when she was fired over and over at various jobs? Where were they when she was ebing abused by her second husband? Where were they when she was on her deathbed? Unfortunately, like her first husband, they had already used her for what they could get and let her rot in her misery. They simply didn't care and that, to me is unforgivable after what she had done for them and their cause.

ok..
 

I can't let Denzel get 'diss'ed... I think he's a great actor. He was Malcolm X in that movie and should have won an Oscar for his performance. And his final scene in "Training Day" was powerful. His self destruction deserved the oscar.. so.. ok.. i have the original dvd of "The Manchurian Candidate" and watched it again a couple of months ago.. makes me drift away in my flat upstairs.. i can't wait to see the remake.. Meryl Streep is an amazing actress.. my favorite Meryl Streep films are "kramer vs. kramer" "out of africa" "the bridges of madison county" "silkwood" "manhatten" "death becomes her" and "The Seduction of Joe Tynan." whew.. an amazing actress..

abb..

I disagree, and I see no point in arguing assumptions. :shrug: :wavey:

- Jake

I always had a thing for Meryl Streep.

My mother LOOKS EXACTLY LIKE HER.

It's scary. Since I was a little girl I would watch people tell my mom how much she looks like Meryl. My mom is 10 years younger but wow.

If you watch Deer Hunter especially, it's scary. Then there is Falling in Love. My mom always had long blonde hair and those two movies she looks most like my mom when she was younger.

Now they are older. In the new movie, she doesn't look so much like my mom but on interviews, as a woman with short blonde hair like my mom now, it's still very eery.

Meryl as an actress? My favorite is Silkwood. I just think she was amazing in that movie.

Your mom's a lucky lady. Meryl is pretty AND interesting looking.
I've never seen Silkwood. I'm not even sure I'd recognize Cher before most of her surgeries. ;)

- Jake

I'm not arguing assumptions, I'm simply agreeing with what Lovelace said in her own words. Feel free to read her many interviews that I'm sure are on the web. :wavey:

Feel free to show me where Lovelace said that nothing Gloria said or did in the '70s mattered because Gloria got married.
I know Linda wrote four autobiographies whose facts are seen as dubious at best, so I don't know that I would trust everything she said in an interview. And Gloria wrote the introduction for the fourth book. If I remember, Linda's health was already poor at the time.

- Jake

Gloria was a spokesperson for a movement to change peoples minds. I think she was an excellent one, and very brave, smart, pioneering. Leaders of movements to change people's minds about something important often use the best examples they have at hand, wherever they come from, to further their goal. They are thinkers and speakers. I don't understand what Gloria was supposed to do, follow Linda and whoever else around for the rest of her life seeing that her every need was attended to? Leaders and speakers for movements need to change, find new info all the time, think, present new ideas in new ways. She has given very generously of her time and everything else over the years, I think it's very narrow to criticize her for her treatment of Linda or her marriage. it's kind of like saying MLK, Jr.'s work was for naught, just cause he had affairs. :shrug: IMO, it's a little ridiculous. I always enjoy hearing people's diverse opinions and knowledge, though. :) , so thank you, Diss.
Amber