Thoughts on Fahrenheit 9/11 *spoilers*
 

Sorry I didn't post this yesterday, guys, I was still getting over what I had just seen. :xoxo:

I started balling two minutes into the film when they showed the congressmen and women standing on the floor of the Senate calling Gore "Mr. President" and saying they didn't give a damn that their bills hadn't been signed by a single senator. That was some heavy **** to take.

To have that quickly followed by footage of 9/11 really affected me.

If Moore's main point was to enrage people, he did so with me. I was already raging when I went in to see it, but I came out with a mission to defeat Bush. Movies like this NEED to be made more often. It's a very different experience to watch the news because you only get a couple pieces of real info each night, if that. But to see everything in such quick succession on film is something to behold. Bush really is the embodiment of evil.

Now, first off, don't listen to what the right-wing pundits say about Moore lying, he doesn't do it once. Pay extra special attention to what he says about the Saudi and bin Laden flights, you'll see that it is completely factual.

While I type this, only two words come to mind: Lila Lipscomb. That woman, my god. If I was sobbing before she came onscreen, I really lost it when she did. It put things about this war into so much perspective that I couldn't handle the reality of it all. When she was in DC for a conference and decided to go to the White House, the whole theater cheered her on. But when that abomination of humanity approached her and yelled "This is all staged! Blame al-Qaeda!" at her, I literally saw red. Never in my life had I ever been so infuriated by a person, not even Bush. When she proceeded to yell "Where was your son supposedly killed?!" I wanted to commit murder. Then, when she had the gall to yell "Well, others died, too!" I screamed "C*CKSUCKER!" at the screen as loud as I could. :laugh:

I was incredibly touched that she had shared the letter her son had written to her a few days before he was murdered. To hear her read him writing about seeing his family and newborns was something I'll never forget. I will also never forget the old Iraqi woman screaming for Allah, that was unforgettable.

The scenes from Iraq were incredibly hard to watch, not only because of the violence, but because of the sheer ignorance of the troops on the ground. The same guy that says he's going to win the hearts and minds of the people invades a residential house for no reason at all, then proceeds to kidnap the young man who lives there with his mother and sister.

Then, to top it all off at the end, they showed that blasted convention where everyone tlake dabout how much money could be made off of Iraq. Soulless bastards.

Moore's use of humor was very much necessary, in my opinion. Without it, I don't think I would've made it through the movie.

The crowd I was with was fantastic. They were among the most furious Bush-haters I've come across. A group of people were even handing out Kerry flyers and stickers. The last scene of Bush trying to say the "old saying" got a lot of "What a f*cking IDIOT!" comments from the audience. When the movie was over, the crowd applauded. And it couldn't have been more deserved.

This movie was a masterpiece and I'll most certainly see it again. You'll never have a more sobering experience.

Yes. Americans are the most ignorant people on the face of the earth and wouldn't pay attention to political issues that affect them if those issues flew up and bit them in their McDonalds-enlarged asses. The only reason this is doing so well is because of the controversy. Just as it was the popular thing to do to see "Passion of the Christ," it's the popular thing to do to see this film. Hopefully it will change some ignorant minds. I mean, there was obviously a few people in the showing I went to that didn't get most of it; it flew right over their heads. For all they know, the Carlyle Group is a Catholic school in the mid-west. :laugh: But, the majority of people were greatly affected by what they saw and left with tears in their eyes. That's wonderful, if you ask moi.

Where in the hell did your post go, Jason???

I didn't know we were into self-censoring. :laugh:

To tackle what you said about the humor, I greatly disagree. I don't think the movie would have gone over as well if it didn't contain humor. I mean, it does contain it and it was STILL a VERY difficult movie to watch. It needs some sort of levity and Bush and his cronies certainly provided it. It doesn't make Moore's points any less credible or valid at all.

As for it being biased, show me a doc that isn't. :shrug:

And I especially loved the footage of the cronies saying that Saddam was under control and had no weapons. :cool:

Crazy....and yes, I'm thinking this film will enrage many...and many many people are going to go in having absolutely NO prior knowledge of anything...

A good friend of mine went last night with a group of his theater friends (all over 18, NOT ONE voted in the last presidential election..they are all registered democrats) And a lot of them were moved enough by the film to start getting on the defeat bush band wagon....some (who had no prior knowledge) decided to wait and do more research, which I admire...but really hope they vote.

I haven't seen the film yet, because movies are crazy expensive here in DC...but I do want to see it, so I"m going to try and catch a matinee...

I edited - then deleted. I did not want to tear down the movie with my over analyzation. So, I thought better of my post. That is why I deleted. Hell, it was only up for like 15 min. I thought no one saw it :shrug: :laugh:

But, in the end and like I said, I think it is a stunning and good good movie. I think it will awaken people to thought, which is a good thing no matter how they think :cool:

The only thing that remedied that scene for me (I was extremely upset) was Bush's limo getting egged after the inauguration. It cracked me up. He knew he didn't win. That's why he's the only president that never got out and walked. It's tradition. He'a a f*cking coward. :mad: It did my heart good to see all the protestors.
Now, that said, I want to say something that's been bugging me. I posted an article about 1.9 million votes in the 2000 election not being counted-about half of which were votes from African Americans. I got one snarky response to it-no offense Carne- and in my mind I kind of equate that to that scene in the movie. It was exactly what I was thinking as I was watching it. No one said anything. :confused:

I pity that woman in the film if she is ever found. :distress:

That's the convention where Moore filmed Nick Berg. That scene was quite disgusting.

I plan on seeing it a few more times. There is so much to absorb. Moore really lets the images speak for themselves.

I would guess there are surprises in the film for everyone. The military document was quite a suprise to me.

http://www.snopes.com/rumors/flight.htm

SNOPES: Members of the Bin Laden family and several
Saudis MAY have left the US while almost all flights
were still grounded until Friday the 14th of
September, 2001. I have not found any evidence
otherwise. Not in any Newsweek article or in the 911
commissions reports, but I did find this on the Snopes
Urban Legend Reference pages (link to follow):

"However, records obtained from the U.S. Department of
Homeland Security under the Freedom of Information Act
(FOIA) seem to indicate that one flight carrying
approximately 46 Saudi citizens may have left the U.S.
from New York as early as September 13, before the
general ban on air travel was lifted. The records do
not identify who these passengers may have been — bin
Laden relatives, royal family members, or other Saudi
nationals. (The "Class of Admission" column in the
document lists the departing passengers as a mixture
of foreign government officials and their employees
and temporary visitors to the U.S. for either business
or pleasure.)"

:sorry: I didn't see it. I'll go look for it and read it.

If I ever saw her on the street, I'd spit on her. What a waste of life.

It was more than disgusting, it was awe-inspiring. I couldn't believe what I was seeing. I didn't think anyone would be so blatant, but they were. Lots of 'em.

There's a LOT to absorb, which is why I'm confused by people saying he doesn't make his case. He does...tenfold.

It's okay doll. :xoxo: I was just kind of surprised and frustrated at the general lack of response.

I always leave my mark in EVERY political thread, so thanks for bumping it up. :laugh:

It's official: Fahrenheit 9/11 is a phenomenon!

http://movies.yahoo.com/movies/featu...oxofficer.html

'Fahrenheit 9/11' Tops North American Box Office
Sunday June 27 11:30 AM PST

LOS ANGELES (Reuters) - Michael Moore's red-hot documentary "Fahrenheit 9/11" earned more in its first three days of release across North America than his Oscar-winning "Bowling for Columbine" did in its entire run, the film's distributors said on Sunday.

"Fahrenheit 9/11," in which Moore takes aim at President Bush (news - web sites), and the war in Iraq (news - web sites), opened at No. 1 after selling about $21.8 million worth of tickets in the United States and Canada since June 25.

The film opened in two theaters in New York on Wednesday to help build even more media buzz before expanding to a relatively modest 868 theaters two days later. (In contrast, most of the other movies in the top five were playing in more than 2,500 theaters each.)

Including the sales from the head start in New York, the film's total stands at $21.96 million. Moore's previous movie, "Bowling for Columbine," grossed about $21.5 million during its nine-month run, during which it peaked at about 250 theaters, according to Moore.

"This is a testament to Michael Moore. His voice resonates across the country in what I think we can all now fairly describe as America's movie," said Tom Ortenberg, the president of distribution at Lions Gate (news - web sites) Films, which backed the movie.

He said in a conference call that the film played strongly in both Democrat and Republican states, even drawing sell-out crowds in Republican strongholds like Nassau County, New York and Fayetteville, N.C., home of Fort Bragg.

Lions Gate, a unit of Lions Gate Entertainment Corp., partnered on the film's distribution with IFC Films, a unit of Cablevision Systems Corp.'s Rainbow Media Holdings LLC, and Miramax co-chairmen Harvey and Bon Weinstein. The Weinsteins bought the movie's rights with their own money after Miramax parent Walt Disney Co. refused to let them release it under the Miramax banner.

The movie cost about $6 million to make, according to Moore. Additionally, the distributors spent less than $10 million -- a relatively modest sum -- to market the movie, said Ortenberg.

I just got back from seeing 911
 

and I didn't realize I could think even less of our President than I do now. It wasn't a misreading of intelligence, it wasn't a miscalculation.. the Administration LIED to us about the Iraq war. In 2001, both Rice and Powell stated that Iraq was actually no threat. The policy of containment was working.

Yes, the movie made me angry. It was intense at times, hard to watch at times.. and I'm so glad it had moments where we could laugh.. because the seriousness of the film almost made me want to walk out. I can't believe so many in my country actually applauded the day we "shocked and awed" a city the size of Baghdad, where half of it's population is under 16. How could we even think the people of Iraq would embrace us after we drop 500 lb cluster bombs and kill their fathers, mothers, sons, daughters, brothers and sisters?

Powerful movie and I applaud Michael Moore for his patriotism. I also applaud the members of the Congressional Black Caucas who protested the selection of W. Where were the Senators? Not one stood up for justice.

I applaud the families of the 911 victims for pushing hard for an investigation of that tragic day. An investigation the administration did it's best to thwart.. Bush should have ordered an independent investigation on 9-12, but instead he did all in his power to stop it.. thanks to the families for not giving up.

Mrs. Limpscomb broke my heart, especially her grieving by the barricaded White House. An amazing American and an amazing woman who lost her son in a war that we should not have been in. I cried with her and I can't even begin to understand her pain.

I also now understand why many in the news media have been blasting this film.. it implicates them for NOT doing their job.

I also thought it was interesting that the current administration was dealing with the Taliban in early 2001.. trying to get the pipeline from the Caspian Sea through Afghanistan.. the bombing of the Cole just happened, and our government is dealing with the Taliban (inviting them to Texas) in early 2001, and we knew they were harboring Bin Laden. What the hell is that all about?

I saw the film in D.C. (it is showing in 5 theaters at Loews Georgetown) and the crowd was engaged, and we applauded at the end!

I have many more thoughts about the movie, but I need to chill.. and although I'm not crazy about Kerry, I will do all I can to get Bush out of the White House. This administration is a disaster.

Here in suburban Philadelphia, the film was applauded at the end as well. Comforting, because this is a pretty Republican area.

I can't say I was shocked at the information contained, but it was interesting to see everything put together concisely.

Lila Lipscomb was the truely dynamic character in the film, going from encouraging her children to join the army to breaking down in front of the White House. I think she symbolizes a (hopefully) ever-growing segment of the population.

And I respect Michael Moore's guts. He is putting himself out in the midst of all the controversy to get this message across. And I realize he's a filmmaker and benefitting from all the publicity, but if our politicians (particularly our Democratic ones) and media outlets would have stood up and not been carried away or threatened by the jingoistic, rah-rah, can't-go-against-the-president bull****, there wouldn't have been a film to make. THAT is what resonates with me. :nod:

I really hope this film is released on DVD before November.

If it is, I'm going to make sure it's displayed at the front desk of the library. :nod:

More power to y'all...
 

who saw this movie and who are very political in your views (In my younger years I used to somewhat to the left like most in my family, But as I grew older my life experiences moved me towards a neutral middle political view.), I just can't bring myself to see it because I made up my mind about the current administration without Mr.Moore's on film schenanigans.

Btw, I am interested to read the 13 pages in Slick Willie's book about the Murrah bombing and how he reacted as the President to try to bring comfort to those Oklahomans who were affected by this act of terrorism. Has anyone read this part of his book yet?

Brian j.

It should vanish from that theater anytime now. The Carlyle Group just bought the Loew's theater chain. :shocked:

True, but CNN had inteviews from Lowes chain owners that indicated the managers were opening the theaters at 6:30 a.m. or some such hour to accommodate more showings to meet the demand. So , , , , , ,

I don't think the takeover has happened yet. I do know that they did purchase it, though. They are partners with two other comapnies that did so.

I read that too. It is scary to think those people are going to be in control of the movie threaters - it smacks on mind control gas being put into the AC vents to me :distress: :cool:

It smacks of Goebbels. :D

Or the blob coming out of the vents! :eek: :eek: :eek:

:lol: :lol: :lol:

How did Rush get in the air vents?!

In one of the order catalogs for video stores (I think it's called Video ETA?), it's advertised as haivng a street date of the last week of September.

Looking for an oxycotin he dropped :cool:

He wife got away with it all. She's selling them in the back of Rite Aid for $5 a pop to help with her lawyer fees.

I heard on GMA the other day that the plans were for a September DVD release, like Diss said. Moore wants it on DVD so more people can see it before the election.

I saw the movie at 11:30 a.m. on Friday, the first showing in my town at a three-screen, non-profit independent theater. That morning showing was added at the eleventh hour but it was too late to fill the theater. So it was about half full. I understand later showings were packed. Mrs. Carne tried to get in with a friend to the 7:30 p.m. showing on Saturday, but no luck.

Anyhoo, my impressions:

Nothing really new here. The genius of the movie is the way Moore pieces the scenes together to back up his argument that the reason we went into Iraq was primarily about profiteering.

After the opening credits, when the screen went black and we heard the planes crashing into the towers and the chaos that followed, there weren't many dry eyes in the theater. This is one of the most chiling scenes I have ever seen in a theater.

There were some gasps at the revelations of the alliance between the Bushes and prominent Saudis, including the part about George Sr. watching the news on TV on 9/11 with one of his Saudi pals, a half-brother of Osama.

I was also struck by the US soldiers in Iraq who were so gung ho about going to war and explaining why they had rock music fed through their helmet phones. It's as if they were preparing for a football game of an athletic meet. Then some of them come back on and they talk about the gruesome scenes they witnessed as they rolled into Baghdad, how they weren't expecting that the destruction they caused would affect them as much as it did.

The Marine who said he wouldn't go back to Iraq, and even would go to jail if he had to, has my undying respect.

Others have mentioned the woman who lost her son and how that completely turned her views around. Her pain is so very palpable in this movie. And as she fell apart on screen I was wondering how it is that so many people don't make the mental leap of what it means to join the military. In rich, mostly peaceful America, we were lulled into believing that joining the military is a career choice, something you do if you have no other prospects (I will spare you my dissertation of the perversity of advertising the military as such). With Iraq, I suspect more people are going to start viewing joining the military as something other than a career choice.

This is an important movie for people to watch. Folks who dismiss it and say they won't go see it because of Moore's reputation need to open their minds a little.

Also, keep in mind that Saudis have been financing Euro Disney for a while. Do you think that may have entered Eisner's mind as he was refusing to distribute the film? Eisner will be gone soon, I suspect. He is pretty much a joke of a CEO at this point.

True. But let's be cautious about this. Much of the negotiation between Unocal and the Taliban had taken place during the preceding administration. Running that pipeline through Afghanistan was an old idea.

No offense taken. And while "snarky" may appropriately characterize the tone of my reply in that thread, I hope you didn't miss the point. As I recall, you are one of the people who have continued to insist on the fantasy that Nader lost the election for Gore in 2000. It's fantasy because

1) Al Gore was a ****ty candidate (no need to go into that now).

2) Way too many people had their votes thrown out. As a former reporter, I covered a fair number of elections and one thing I know is that there is always a small percentage of votes that gets spoiled. But in 2000, it was clear to me that too many votes were being thrown out that came from certain contingencies of voters. Without the resources to look into it myself, what that suggested to me was that there was something systematic going on. The report you posted about the 1 million out of 1.9 million spoiled votes having come from blacks surprised me not in the least. All things being equal, the percentage of spoiled black votes would have been less than 20 percent, as opposed to more than half.

But all things are not equal. And the report you posted, though it does not conclusively prove what I've suspected all along, is confirmation of my suspicions.

Ralph Nader didn't give the election to George Bush. It was a combination of a very, very dislikable Democratic candidate with the shennanigans that went on in voting precincts, especially in Florida, that gave the election to the loser. But, you see, true to form, the Democrats didn't even have the guts to do anything about it.

Euro Disney has been eating a hole through Eisner's pockets for ages, then Pince Talal lent him quite a bit of monetary support and Eisner made a small profit. Go figure.

And I find it rather funny that just last week, Eisner announced that Disney is going roll back greatly. He told shareholders he only wants to make two a year. :laugh: Meanwhile, McDonalds is furious at Eisner because they signed contracts almost ten years to only promote Disney films at their restaurants, back when Disney films made money. Now that they're forced to promote straight-to-video releases and places like Burger King get to promote stuff like Shrek, they've lost a lot of business.

I've heard that the Weinstein's are going to buy their Miramax and subsidiary labels back from Disney, but they won't get their film library. In any case, this does not bode well.

Eisner will be gone within a year.

Well, that really explains all of the questiuoning from the 9/11 commission about why nothing was done in retaliation for the Cole bombing, an investigation that the Bush administration put a halt to and cost John Dean his life.

I thought the same thing. I liked how Moore explored that by transitioning from Lipscomb to the recruiters, then back to Lipscomb. There's something about how he dealt with her that made her story unforgettable and intensely difficult to watch. He didn't exploit her, he didn't cue the music whens he was onscreen, he let do all the talking. We've been so desensitized by the media and how they report war casualties that we almost forget that these are people with families, not just another notch on CNNs chalkboard. To see just one family in the way Moore presented them put an all too real face on what this administration doesn't want us to see.

George Soros is still a major player in The Carlyle, so maybe not. Poppy bush got out some time after 9/11.

I am? Where did I say that? The election was stolen, no doubt. However Nader is but one symptom of many in that cancer.

It's not up to just the Democrats. It's up to everyone. Why didn't you do your damn job and write the article?

:eek:

:lol: :lol: :lol:

How about...
 

the US Army soldier who did not want to go back because of the abuse he saw and is current seaking to have "C-O" status??? (See the thread I started elsewhere)

He (Mejia) has my respect for standing up for what he thought was right, And he is not the only soldier at Ft.Sill who wishes to make it home alive (I've lost count of how many soldiers based at Ft.Sill that have died in Iraq/Afghanistan at around 12).

I picked up Soros' book before I saw F9/11 on Saturday and it's pretty darn good. Great writer.

You know this but just so everyone else knows, George Soros is the major backer of MoveOn.org and doing his best to unseat Bush.