Was Lindsey insanely jealous of Stevies solo success?
 

This may seem like a stupid question, but I was reading Stevie - In Her Own Words website and from what she was saying (which is naturally going to be at least slightly biased anyway), Lindsey totally despised the woman from around 1989 until The Dance.

I knew they didnt get on but I wasnt aware of just how much L (seemingly) resented S, eg. Stevie says whenever she walked into a room L would become the most horrible and sarcastic man. Was this all down to Stevies solo success?

:wavey:

I think LB's jealousy started way before then. Stevie has said the minute she began to be the one that got the most attention is when it started - not to mention her dating DH and other huge stars of the time. But, yes, who would not be jealous of their former love achieving great success when they formerly depended on your musical talent to get there and by your own admission you used that as a tool as LB has said he did when he said that sometimes he did not feel like helping Stevie, etc. If there were no hard feelings, he would have wanted to help her for the success of the band, etc. So, I am sure he was jealous because I and I think anyone else would have been IMO. I am also sure Stevie resented LB having to be the one to make her songs into greatness; who wants to depend on their former love for that - I would not. Then, there is the whole question of where would FM have been if Stevie had not come back after BD. I am sure they would have been successful on some level because I think CM is brilliant, but if Steive had not come back, would LB have remained in FM, which he even then was beginning to loathe. Personally, I do not think he would have, esp., considering LB says Mirage was an attempt to run back to the highly successful mainstream after the financial, and somewhat critical (then) disappointment of Tusk, which was his mastermind. Then, without LB, would CM's songs have been hits? Certainly, "Hold Me" has LB's distict stamp. But, who knows - CM is VERY talented - the problem as far as stardom goes however is she is just not, by her own admission, a focal point by any means when compared to Stevie and, to a lesser degree, LB. So, I think there was some jealousy of Stevie by everyone, but I think LB had it the worst. They are so intertwined and still are IMO.

Also, it is all speculation regarding the what if's I used above. We will never know for certain because we cannot go back and see what would happen if the equation was changed :shrug: It is just IMO fun to speculate.

NOTE: Could we please not let this thread turn into WWIII :cool:

Them's fighting words!!! :mad: :mad: :mad: :angel:

To be honest, I haven't a clue what Lindsey's emotional states were through the years. Based on interviews, it seems that there was tension over Stevie's solo work, but who knows if it was resentment, jealousy, or something else? :shrug: But I agree that it's logical for Lindsey to have been unhappy that Stevie got the attention and wrote songs quickly.

- Jake

How dare you?!?!
 

This is an evil thread and I hope you are banned!!!! Stevie this, Stevie that!!!??! WHY would Lindsey be jealous of her!?!!?! She's NOTHING without him!!!!! :mad:








































:lol::lol::lol:


Just kidding. LOL

Wouldn't YOU be jealous of her? I would be!! She's the focus of FM, always has been, always will be. I'm sure there is still competition, just not hateful and fierce like back in the day. They're human. :)

Are you trying to start something? :shrug: :mad: :mad: :lol:

- Jake

Yeah...
 

On the other side of the coin, I've always suspected that Stevie was not just a little jealous of Lindsey, too, because he was always respected and revered by music critics and fellow musicians.
And Stevie has often said that respect is something she's always wanted.

Like Christy said, they're only human... and jealousy is a very human emotion.

True...
 

I think it was jealousy combined with hurt. He didn't have a part in her solo success...she didn't need him and could be successful without him. How could that NOT hurt? Especially since they were this "package deal."

I agree with all of these comments, and I'm not trying to lead us to the aforementioned WWIII here, but...

I know others have mentioned it, and I truly believe Stevie has selflessly toned it down on this tour (and perhaps any future FM tours), so that Lindsey can finally have a chance to shine. I say "selflessly" because Stevie was just always being herself and most people just naturally gravitated towards her...it's not like she came in and said "I am the star of this band!" I'm sure there are other factors: age, etc., but I just sense something there. I don't know that LB sat her down and said, "How 'bout a little less chiffon this time 'round so I can prove my genius"...I'd tend to suspect it was more a quiet decision she made within herself, though if asked about it by LB or another band member was honest. And with Christine gone, Stevie can make this decision and see it through on her own. We all know and recognize the extent of LB's talent, and I think Stevie is ready to step back and let the world see it more...let him be "the star of FM", if you will. Again, this is not based on my or our view, but the world at large. But I've noticed it's even worked on some of the diehards...I remember a lot of posts when the tour started last year: "Stevie used to be my favorite, but now I think it might be Lindsey..." Her sudden lack of interaction with the crowd seems odd if it's not with intent. Lindsey's the one hamming it up with the front rows now.

I sort of agree. It seems like she may not be doing things like twirling during his guitar solos, for example, so people stop paying attention to her for a few minutes. Although even during costume changes at the side of the stage, I always keep my eyes on Stevie! lol

Anyways, it is easy to see this if you look at a song like Stand Back where Lindsey really isn't involved. In that song she has no problem cutting loose, going crazy, twirling like a mad woman, wearing a mystical cape, belting out the notes and really hamming up what made her a star.

I think that's an astute observation. Jealously is rarely a singular emotion. It is generally paired with others, such as fear, insecurity, hurt, etc. Lindsey for a long time was bitter about Stevie's success, no doubt. He was the man who actually brought her along to FM, crafted her best-known songs. She goes off on her own, becomes famous as a solo act, while he has to deal with the recriminations of the relative commercial failure of Tusk, the whole breakup thing and the fact that as a solo act he remained largely unknown.

Interestingly, today Stevie comes across as the bitter one, while Lindsey, though still fighting some demons as evidenced by the occasional tossed guitar in a hotel room, seems at peace for the most part.

How long have you been following this band? This is utter nonsense. If you look at footage from the tours starting with Tusk, Lindsey has remained an electrifying presence on stage. Stevie's over-the-top swirls and stage antics did not outshine Lindsey. He was always the slightly-crazed guitarist who would do his fair share of over-the-top stage antics.

The woman had had hip surgery. There were reports of other maladies that I am too much of a gentleman to repeat here. When a part of your body, such as a hip or a knee, is either replaced or repaired, you have no idea just how much that restricts your mobility. Stevie was probably a little crazy to even get on stage at that point. But give the woman credit. And this has nothing do with some tacit agreement between her and Lindsey to "let him shine" this time around. Even during The Dance tour, even though Lindsey was more subdued, he still got huge accolades for his stage presence.

Besides, there is nothing about hip surgery that prevents Stevie from doing new songs as well as older less-known numbers on stage. If you ask me, the reason she has taken some hits on this tour for being lackluster or whatever, is because she keeps doing the same songs over and over again, and in some cases the melodies are so different from the original that it has to be jarring for people to hear. Add that to the toning down of the twirls, and you have a less interesting stage Stevie.

Be that as it may, I think they have both done a tremendous job on stage. I was just listening to the DVD's Say Goodbye and was again struck how good both their vocals are.

I think the most obvious reason for her lack of interaction with the crowd is what happened on the TISL tour. She's getting up there in age and her immune aystem ain't what it used to be. Shaking all those hands that could've been in some dark and dirty places every night is what made her sick for so long, IMO. She probably knows this, doesn't want to get sick again, so she consciously restricts herself from giving the audience much attention so that they aren't disappointed that she didn't shake their grubby hands.

Lol!!
 

:laugh:

Probably true! Yuck!

I do not think anyone is questioning LB's ability to be what you said. I think it comes from a different perspective. I think Stevie knows that if she hauled out during ISA or the guitar solo at the end of GYOW and danced her a$$ off, it would take away some of the spotlight from LB. She used to do that during the end of GYOW and peoples' eyes just move to her when she does hat. She has that allure to most people (I know I know not all :laugh: ) :shrug: I think she is very aware of that. So, she chooses not to upstage anyone. Also, Stevie is VERY good about giving props to the back up players a la the going up to Brett and pointing during the SB beginning and going up to Carlos during his guitar solo in SB. So, I think this is not trying to take away from LB's brilliant guitar playing and his own schtick, I think it is not trying to compete with his schtick, the same way he lightens up his stuff once she comes on in SB. He fades to the background and lets her shine. I think they are just being respectful of each other a little more these days.

{I have been a fan for 10 years (yes, a short amount of time in the scheme of the band's carrer, but long enough to know quite a bit about them...was a personal attack really necessary for making a suggestion?! I didn't claim to know it to be the truth...I am just speculating. (Kinda like we all are in 80% of our posts seeing as how no matter how long one has been a fan they do not actually know these people!):wavey:}

I emphasized repeatedly that it was not how I felt...I completely agree with you that Stevie's antics never outshined Lindsey! But you can't deny that the world at large has thought of Stevie as the star of FM. I've heard plenty of people talk about FM performances using the word "she": "I was so glad 'she' did this song or that song". Again, even though Stevie was just doing what moved her, I think she may have realized that *the world at large* may not be giving Lindsey his due if she is twirling during a guitar solo. Or, it could just be that people are nasty and don't wash their hands after they pee, like Christy said.:laugh:





Did you read my post at all?! I specifically mentioned that I couldn't see an actual agreement between them having been made. And as for everything else you said here in defense of Stevie, I could not agree with you more and have repeatedly made similar comments on any number of threads. (Which I am stating because I certainly don't expect you to keep a personal diary of my posts;).)

I agree with this too. I love her no matter what, and think she's great on this tour. I think her voice sounds SO good and actually like (as opposed to "accept" or "tolerate") some of the new melodies. But I do think she's weary of performing many of her songs and direly wish she would branch out. There's no way it couldn't light a little spark in her.

I COULD NOT AGREE WITH YOU MORE!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! :nod: :] :nod:

:)

:nod:

Good "bottom-line" statement.

Given the specific time frame you're talking about, 1988/-mid-90s, I think some of what she said is also partly down to her own frame of mind during that period. What exactly Lindsey felt toward Stevie in that period of time, I don't know. But that time period exactly coincides with her Klonopin downward spiral where she seemed a lot more angry and bitter about a lot of things. I think that was reflected in almost everything she talked about for a while. When she got through that period of her life, a lot of her bitterness and more extreme comments on a variety of topics went away again.

Stevie spends far more time on stage than she did in the tours before The Dance. Therefore, all these comments about "letting" Lindsey shine this time around are pure nonsense.

Dammit, you gotta stop doing that! ;) What do I say to that!?

You've made the "Stevie is the bitter one these days" comment before.
How do you reckon that? What has she said or done in recent times, that would make you think she's bitter?

Is it the fact that she's best friends with the wife of one of her exes, and even takes vacations with them?
Oh, wait... that can't be it.

Is it the fact that she's friends with the wife of yet another ex, and dotes on his children (even buying his daughter little ballerina outfits)?
Hmm, that can't be it either.

Or maybe it's the occasions where she has stated that she sometimes wonders "what might have been" if she had made other choices, but ultimately feels that her life is pretty damn good these days, and that her family and friends (and music) bring her a lot of fulfillment and happiness?
Well, I guess it's probably not that either.

So... uhm... what is it then? Despite the prevailing opinion around here, Stevie's lack of a spouse doesn't make her an embittered old maid. :)

Well, Johnny, as much as it might be fun to have another go-round on this tired old debate, I'll pass. There are plenty of comments from interviews that say very loudly: "I'm bitter!"

I would expect your interpretation to differ from mine. So let's leave it at that. :wavey:

If I thought she were a bitter person, I'd be the first to admit it. I don't like bitterness... I have no time for it. It might be kind of cold, but I always think that if you can't make your peace with something and move on in a suitable amount of time, then I don't want to hear about it.

I felt Stevie's pain during her "bitter Klonopin-years," but if I felt she hadn't moved on from that, and hadn't grown from that, then I would have moved on.

So if you want to interpret things she says as "bitter"... so be it.
But I see a person who has come to terms with the choices she's made in her life, and doesn't mind talking about them candidly.

(Oh, but I will grant you that bitterness seeps thru when she discusses the Klonopin... but it kind of seems understandable to be a little angry about losing 10 years of your life. Still, hopefully she'll move on from that, too.)

I think what we all have in mind more specifically are things like Stevie twirling during LB's guitar solos, etc (not just that she's onstage period...which you're right that she is out there a lot more than she used to be). As said, most people could not help watching Stevie when she did this and I know plenty of people who still only know Stevie by name of the all band members. I still don't think you're getting that we're going by how the general public views the band, not us here on The Ledge. Whatever's going on is certainly 'working'...I sure hear a lot more people in the general population talking about LB and knowing him by name now.

Sounds like a lot of Lindsey bashing to me....

Perhaps there were moments of jealousy, but think about it: Stevie and Lindsey a still friends. Why would anybody want to hang out with somebody who's insanely jealous of them or vice versa?

I happened upon this quote from a 1989 interview last night:

"Stevie had a relationship with Lindsey Buckingham for a number of years but eventually they parted not on the best of terms. However, he did phone her shortly before this interview took place, and for old times sake Stevie says she’ll definitely call him back."

http://www.nicksfix.com/recordmirror5-20-1989.htm

So, it seems like even then Lindsey was reaching out to Stevie on some level.

And here is something from May 1992, regarding Mick's book:

"But there was one story that had me slapping Stevie when I said I was leaving the band. The next time I saw Stevie after that, she came up to me, and said, 'God, I'm really sorry he wrote that.' She was apologizing to me for something he wrote... "

http://bla.fleetwoodmac.net/index.ph...x_v2&id=92&c=9

So, he had seen Stevie after Mick's book came out and apparently as friends they sympathized together about it. Further proof that Lindsey didn't despise Stevie during this period.

And look at "Say Goodbye" - written in 1989 - doesn't sound angry at Stevie to me. I imagine Lindsey was riddled with guilt over leaving the band and feeling sorry for Stevie, rather than loathing her.

I remember the second incident but not the first. Thanks for sharing it.

- Jake

Mutual Respect?
 

HI to all
I am fairly new to the board and hope to make lots of new friends - I took an interest in this thread as I have been a long time Mac fan and an even longer time Nicks fan. I loved the SYW tour here in Brissie and was lucky enough to have front row seats right in front of Stevie - IMO I found Lindsay and Stevie to be magic together and I felt the competitiveness on their solo's but it was healthy, they both cut loose over here - Stevie in Stand Back left me speechless, but in saying that I felt that they actually have a lot of respect for each others solo performances and each let the other take the spotlight when it was their individual performance so not to take from each other. I think and hope they have reached a point in their relationship where they respect each other firstly as people and secondly as artists and this shines through when they are on stage singing together and apart, :xoxo:
Cheers,
Mandy

Welcome, Mandy. Glad you got to see them Down Under. Or Up Over. Depending on how you hold the globe. :wavey:

- Jake

In what way? Please explain...

I think he was jealous of her success way back when, but I don't think he thought she deserved it in the sense that he didn't like seeing anything he considered bland or overly mainstream create such a stir.

I think at this point he's thankful for Stevie's popularity, now that he's working with her a lot once again.

Thanks for the Welcome!
 

Thanks for the warm welcome Jake - damn now I know why I have trouble keeping my feet on the ground - the globe is being held upsidedown!!! :laugh: :laugh:

Stevies on stage more true, but I think thats due to she is not off changing her stage clothes like she used to . just adding a new shawl doesnt take much time at all. I have been a fan since the 70s and looking back, Stevie used to do lots of twirls during or while lindsey was doing a solo. she does grab the attention of the audience. she was more active during those days on stage, but i think she has toned it down on this FM tour, not so lindsey can shine, I think she is doing it so she can pace her self , for she does have hip problems.
she definatley can kick it, like in stand back she is the old stevie. I do feel that when she is on a solo tour she is more lively with the audience, for its her show.

And I do not see Stevie being bitter. I think Lindsey today is a happy man, and I think Stevie is happy for him.

WELL SAID.

More good points, and again, my original post was simply speculation. As also mentioned before, they are undeniably more respectful of each other now, and that translates onto the stage as well.

Very true.

{I love your username, btw. Very clever.}

Was Lindsay insanely jealous of Stevie
 

Well, not insanely :) but I am sure he was. He expected to be the star and she turned out to be the star. Add to that that for many years she didn't acknowledge openly that he was as much help to her as he was. She does acknowledge this now, and I think that's helped the reconciliation.

I think to some extent she is letting Lindsey shine on this tour. I have seen her before in concert-back in the Tango days and the Mirage video. She is quite a different person these days. I also agree that she is probably not interacting as much because of trying to keep well-respiratory ailments are not her friend :)

Anyway, as a fan who thought back in 1987 and in the early nineties that I'd never see Lindsey and Stevie together again, I am just glad for whatever reconcilation has occurred :)

How can you say on the one hand she is letting him shine and on the other that she is not interacting as much because of her ailments? Why can't it be that she is not moving as much on stage because of the ailments. Incidentally, when I saw them she moved a fair bit.

It's this "letting" business that has me a little baffled. Lindsey is the sun. He's never needed anyone to let him shine. He emits plenty of heat and light all by himself.

Well, he DID "Go Insane" three years after her solo debut.:lol: