Red Rover, Exposed!
 

Hearing Red Rover performed live last night preceded by Lindsey's speech finally gelled in my mind the meaning of the song. Lindsey said the song was written from the perspective of gods, not God, sitting up there and looking down on us. He said, "gods, like Zeus." The whole idea is that these Greek gods are looking down on this experiment we call the human race, kind of furrowing their brows and wondering just how it all went so wrong. The gods start to wonder if they should pull the plug.

He then said apologetically that it's a very dark thought.

In listening to his introductory speech, it finally dawned on me: "Red Rover, we've come to take you over." That's the "pulling the plug" part. "What of the quiet ones" is clearly a reference to the folks who think the way Lindsey does and have concluded this experiment has gone terribly wrong.

It really is very political, but he dances around the politics of it by writing it somewhat cryptically.

And I also understand the relationship to "Someone's Gotta Change Your Mind" now. As you might recall, Lindsey has also said that song was written form the Greek gods' perspective. In both songs, the gods are in their rightful paternal role, manipulating or wondering whether to manipulate their creation, these children called humans. You might recall from your Greek Mythology classes that the gods amused themselves by thinking up challenges and tasks for the humans. Occasionally a human, like Prometheus, would outsmart the gods, but never without retribution.

"Red Rover," I believe, is about hubris. And as such, the gods are figuring out just what to do about it.

"Red Rover" is a very clever, chilling song. As is "Someone's Gotta Change Your Mind."

Coolness!
 

Christy, don't despair. It is about death. In it, the gods are contemplating just how to handle this hubris. And wiping out the human race is definitely a consideration.

I hope that makes you feel better. ;)

Lol
 

Feel free to send any interps to me, lol!

I've heard the Greek Gods spiel before - there was similar intro to it at Soundstage. I can see that applying to about half of the song's lyrics, but the other half are still inexplicible to me, despite this "explanation." Who is the "you"? The first verse - "Why do you come aruond so very much"? Is this Zeus talking to the other gods? If it's humanity, this makes no sense. Come around where? To temples to worship Zeus?!!! Oh, even writing this stuff is making me shake my head. Is the "lips you were kissing" a mockery of the love humanity finds because it is all doomed? And if that's the case, here is much to hear in "Heaven on in Hell."

The second verse can work in the context more easily.... there's more to it then this simplistic Pantheon Politics explanation. The lyrics intrigued me so much that once upon a time when I wrote a letter to Mr. Lindsey Buckingham (and no, he didn't answer it lol) I asked him to give more info on the song sometime during an interview. Well, he didn't do that either. Guess he doesn't take orders from Nancy. ;)

Death...
 

I didn't care for the song all that much when I heard it on Say You Will. But seeing it live changed my perspective. It does have a very dark vibe to it, and Lindsey was very intense when he sang it. I give it two demon thumbs up.

I GUESS I can hear this in the song, but I always hear it as a "gotta get away from Stevie/FM" song. But who am I to say Linds is lyin'?

Still love the song though!

I gotta chime in on this, even though I don't post here very much, I still read up everday.

Red Rover is my fav song of all time pretty much, it just strikes a certain chord within me, and I can never put my finger right on y.

At first, I associated this song with innocence, and childhood, because Red Rover is a childs game.

Then I thought it was just about some lonely person, who wanted to escape.

Recently, I have really been bought on the idea of Red Rover being almost a suicide song. "You DOn't belong here," "No one was crying" "We come to take you over."

And it is somewhat about dying/suicide and pulling the plug. I guess what Lindsey said makes sense, and there was a good explanation for it now.

I think because the song is so chilling, creepy and mysterious is why I like it so much.

I always thought RR was about death, to me the second verse was a give away, and to me the first tells of a secret illness??? I dunno really but it's great to hear of something of Lyndsey i've never heard the God's story before.

Tynan

OK, since I brought this up, I am going to give this one a whirl. I like Christy's interpretation because it's fairly close to mine. I believe some of the confusion stemming from Lindsey's use of the second person is because though he says "you," he's not always talking about the same "you."

"Why do you come around?" I see this as one of the gods asking himself, Why do I even bother coming here and looking at these people? Why do I have to keep reminding myself this has all gotten so out of hand?

"You know it just brings you down, it's just something you can touch." The god is still addressing himself here: I come here -- here presumably being some vantage point on Olympus whence he can look down -- even though it brings me down because this is tangible. It's real.

"You don't belong here, I guess you never did." Now, I believe the "you" becomes the human. The internal dialogue becomes a soliloquy directed at the humans. The god is saying, essentially, you wouldn't even be here if I hadn't put you here. Truth is you don't even belong here. And that has never been more obvious now that you're screwing everything up. Alternately, perhaps the god is still addressing himself saying "you don't belong here" in the sense that "you really had no business creating these humans in the first place." Perhaps it's both.

"Whisper murder in your ear, you just keep it so well hid." The god is saying, You know damn well you're murdering thugs, that everything you do is leading to death, but you're pretty good at hiding the actual truth of the matter from yourselves. This is a commentary, I believe, on the powerful people who run things.

"Anyone at all could see what was missing, could see you were dying through no one was crying." Mother earth is dying. The environment is shot to hell but people aren't paying enough attention.

"And the lips you were kissing, night after night, all were bathed in blue, all bathed in white" This is a commentary about humanity's near-constant flirtation with death. The blue and white lips seem to suggest kissing a cadaver. The cadaver may be humanity itself, mother earth or both.

Then at the chorus, the god is again addressing the humans, who after all are the children of the gods: "Red rover, red rover, red rover, we come to take you over." The gods are saying, Since you screwed things up royally, we're going to take you over. This I believe is the "pulling the plug" part.

"One of the quiet ones one of the few." Now the god seems to be appealing to the few among us (clearly myself included ;) ) who realize things have gone terribly wrong: "Now fall down onto your knees show us all what you can do." He's using he kneeling reference, I believe, as an allusion to faith, that which gives you will power to do something. Do you have enough will power to turn this thing around?

"We came around here to see if you were well" Now this one god is acknowledging that "we," all of us gods up here, are checking up on humanity to see how it's holding up.

"Now there's nothing for you to fear in heaven or in hell" This is an interesting line, because it seems to fly in the face of what we are taught: Fear hell because you don't want to end up there. To me, it seems this deity is saying, "Guess what, there is no heaven, there is no hell. So you have nothing to fear there." Implicit in this seems to be the message: Fear not those things; they don't exist. We do, we exist, and guess what? We're going to take you over. We're going to wipe you out.

Anyway, that's more interpretation then I've ever wanted to do. But this particular song is song intriguing that I couldn't help myself.

I can totally see that. But just for the sake of argument :) here's how I always heard it. of course, I'm not saying anyone's wrong (here on the oh-so-sensitive Ledge), but I'm just throwing this out since I'm the only one who sees it. :laugh: And I agree with the death imagery, I'm just thinking it may be more emotional death rather than actual death.

Why do you come around so very much You know it just brings you down, it's just something you can touch

Clinging to a dead relationship OR His final days with Fleetwood Mac in the 80's. "Something you can touch" being something real and secure, even in a dysfunctional way.

You don't belong here, I guess you never did.

Gee, maybe this is why my relationship with Stevie/FM didn't work out. Maybe also commenting on how different his musical direction was from the rest of the band

Whisper murder in your ear, you just keep it so well hid.

Staying was going to kill him (emotionally, artistically), though he tried to fight it and stay for so long. The imagery is of it being kind of taunting and subtle. Can't you see him working at the mixing board, hating the direction he's going in, thinking "These guys are going to kill me," i.e whispering murder in his ear.

Anyone at all, could see what was missing, Could see you were dyin', though no one was cryin'

Everyone could see he wasn't happy, but no one did anything to alleviate his pain (probably all too busy with their own...)


And the lips you were kissing, night after night, All were bathed in blue, all bathed in white

The lips could be Stevie or FM, but this person/thing you are so intimately involved with night after night is DEAD. DEAD, DEAD, DEAD.

One of the quiet ones, one of the few, Now fall down onto your knees, Show us all what you can do OK--I admit to losing a bit of my momentum here, but here goes! Maybe he's "quiet" because he didn't get the spotlight like Stevie. Maybe he's "one of the few" because HE'S the one who broke away from the machine and all the craziness. But now he's left and he's really on his own now. And now he feels like he needs to get a little humble and prove himself.

We came around here, to see if you were well, And there's nothing for you to fear, in heaven or in hell.

More recently the old gang has gotten touch with him and I just see this as kinda "All 's forgiven".

Red Rover, Red Rover...we come to take you over

The fear of giving in and compromising himself. At one time more about getting away from the crazy drug filled days, but also a bit about giving things up artistically for the name Fleetwood Mac. He says it like a warning, like a low alarm going off. It's cool!

Ah well, far be it from me to know what's going on in Lindsey's head. It's cool, though, that we all dig this song so much! It certainly elicits a visceral response.

Come on. It's just another song about sex, or in fact, the lack of it. That's what they all write about. ;)

Wow - that was really good Sugar - I can totally see it being about that! :cool:

Red Rovuh'
 

Well Lindsey's songs can be eccentric at best, and almost impossible to interpret. 95% of songs are about love anyways. I think this is one of those thats in the other 5%.

Sugar, that's an impressive read. And I really do think the Gods versus Mankind as a metaphore could adjust with The Muses and the Mac.

It really makes sense for me. Compliments!

I don't think that's right. The majority GOS stuff is not about love. OOTC hasn`t love as main theme also.

But it's about self-love!
Uh, then again, nearly all of his material is narsistic anyway. :rolleyes: But it's narcism that one can identify with. :nod:

Oh my!!
 

:shocked:

LMAO!! Gives a whole new meaning to Don't Look Down. :laugh:

:lol: :lol: :lol: :xoxo:

"I'm just sittin' here nuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuude...yeah-ah..."

:lol: :lol: :lol:

Maybe it's been a main theme for Gift of Screws?

Glad you guys liked my interp! :) I think I formulated it before the whole Greek Gods explanation came out. God knows the song could be about both or neither, for that matter! Does anyone have any ideas as to when the song was actually written? That might give us a clue too.

Oh, and if I ever start a rock band, I think I need to call it...

...or maybe a title for a short story... :)

I don't remember him saying it about "Peacekeeper," but he definitely said it in regards to "Someone's Gotta Change Your Mind."
I've always associated that song with the children lost in the Oklahoma City bombing, for some reason. :(
And I guess maybe my interpretation of it, and Lindsey's own comments about the Gods looking down on us, could still fit together... since I've always thought Lindsey was basically saying, "look what we've done."


Anyway... great interpretations in this thread. :)

This from a man who corrected Stevie on not maintain consistent second-person tense? That would sure be hypocritical of him, to lecture Stevie on something he disregards on his own songs. That's why I hesitate to buy into that, and why I do indeed get confused by it.

That's an interesting read and one that hadn't occured to me.

P.S. Anyone who is so inclined, feel free to send me these interps as speculations for my site!

You're right that he said it about SGCYM, but about Peacekeeper as well. I've been keeping track of Peacekeeper comments because it's so controversial.

From the Philadelphia Inquirer 4/15/03: "There are a few songs of mine on the record that imagine if there were gods, in the Greek sense, looking down on the human race, wondering when to pull the plug. 'Peace Keeper' is one of those, and 'Murrow' is another. To me it's strange because 'Peace Keeper' is a very ironic song, but I guess it's one of those songs where [because] you hit the right reference points, it seems to get attached to very specific events. In my mind, it could be applied to a nation and also a love relationship."

So not only Peacekeeper, but MURROW! Folks, this catch all answer cannot be applied so specifically to one song but not others. I frankly think this is purposefully vague so that he doesn't have to tell us what these songs are REALLY about - which, of course, is his right. I just wish he'd be more straightforward about it.

Lol
 

Oops! :o I remember that Philadelphia Inquirer quote now... too bad I didn't remember it before I posted! :laugh:

Maybe Lindsey took a page from Stevie and her 'Songs of Rhiannon,' for his 'Songs of the Greek Gods'? ;)

I imagine that, like all good writers, the theme of the Greek gods looking down on us was Lindsey's starting point, but that the songs then took on a life of their own as he wrote... which would explain why we can have such wildly different interpretations, all of which have equal merit.

I disagree on that one. Life is all about love. We all want it, need it, search for it, fight for it, go to war for it, write songs about it... the list is endless.

And if we care about world issues, and making this world a better place, it's out of a love for our fellow man, or our children, or someone. :)

:xoxo:

Js...
 

Oh no, I didn't think you meant it that way... I was just trying to say that, one way or another, pretty much everything is born out of love in some way or another.

Wars, racism, hatred... that kind of stuff is born out of pride, which itself is a warped form of self-love.

So I didn't mean it to sound like I took your comments to mean we shouldn't all love each other... I was just commenting that love (of one kind or another) is pretty much the basis for all of our actions in life.
I should have given a broader idea of what I meant, in my first post. :)

I found the former a tiresome theme and I find the latter somewhat of an eye-roller as well, but hey, Red Rover is a brilliant song regardless.

Js...
 

Theme
 

Yeah, just because the Rumours-era FM once wrote an album full of songs about each other doesn't mean that they've always been writing themselves. No disrespect to the BN.net board and its posters but I'd rather imagine that the songs are random thoughts coming out of thin air and then they're assembled together by the artist. Even Lindsey said, back in the day, that the artist has to seriously struggle for what seems simple to others.

Music, and the way it's performed, can express a lot more than just 'em lyrics.

Ok, I'm just as clueless as the others in matters like these. :D

Good point. I'm not sure it makes him hypocritical though. I'm always getting on people at work for using passive voice too much, but that doesn't mean I don't ever use it. When I do, it's very, very rare though. Doesn't make me hypocritical. I use it when it's called for (<----like here).

Hmm... Murrow seems to be a stretch. I just can't imagine the gods sitting on Mount Olympus pondering the state of TV news.

Be that as it may, I definitely see a connection to the gods on Shuffle Riff. Lindsey even uses the "someone's gotta change your mind" line. So I think it's quite possible that he set about writing a series of songs from the gods' perspective. Let's give him the benefit of the doubt on Murrow, then we have:

Murrow
Peacekeeper
Someone's Gotta Change Your Mind
Red Rover
Shuffle Riff

Is it possible he was going to have a theme for the album. Does the song Gift of Screws also fit? I've always seen that song as somewhat political as well.

This is entirely plausible.

Wait - you don't want him to get a new theme, you just want him to stick with a current theme that's not Stevie? And yet you like the songs you named, don't you? I get a lot more moved by songs inspired by private emotional struggles than I do about songs inspired by Zeus and Hera - even if that personal inspiration is :: gasp :: Stevie. And I'm convinced Red Rover is about her. (Just kidding about that last part, folks lol)