Question for pre-Tango fans who went to Tango shows and those who became fans w/Tango
 

:wavey:

I am wondering...

Those of you who were fans before Tango (and had been to shows on previous tours) and went to Tango shows: How did you feel about Rick and Billy and the addition of backup musicians?

Also...were those of you who became fans with Tango thrown off or frustrated that there was one guy on the album and different guys at the show?

Random curiosities.....

I thought the Tango tour was amazing even though I was so hurt LB was not there. I mean I was sick to my stomach when I heard he left.

Rick and Billy were great. Christine took over for that tour and the next one as well. Stevie who I thought stole the Mirage tour (she was on fire that tour) seemed out of it a little the Tango and BTM. I thought Christine was a little weak on the Mirage tour.

So in conclusion (sorry about the ramble). I was pleased with it even though I was upset about LB leaving.

[sarcasm]Wow, Fleetwood Mac touring with new members, what a totally unique concept. [/sarcasm] Because I've been a fan since the bands' inception, changing personnel has NEVER been that much of a big deal with me, once I got over Peter Green's departure, that is. :o

The 1987/88 Shake The Cage tour, as it was officially called, is VERY close to my favorite Fleetwood Mac tour of all-time.

I guess I'm like Chili. I started listening around Mystery to Me so the changes hurt, but you got used to them.

I thought The Dance tour was probably the most note perfect tour ever for FM since my tenure of fandom began with FM FM. But, I have to agree the Shake the Cage tour was great as I like Billy and Rick.

The guys were cool. They made for some interesting musical changes. I liked the two guitar thing, and the bluesy style they added. The tour, however, was a bit of a drag because Stevie was a total zombie at the shows I saw.

at the time I remember being really surprised at how good the band was. i wanted to join the "Lindsey who?" ranks because there was so much good energy - at least at the New York shows.

Looking back - and watching the Tango live video - I have to say, their sound was pretty "watered down" and generic compared to Lindsey's.

Rick and Billy are great - but I think they're better suited for a Jackson Browne tour or a Bonnie Raitt tour. Fleetwood Mac is too unique and too high energy and too loud for them. They need Lindsey to keep things fresh. Thank God he's back.

I have been a fan since I was a child (through the late 70s and 80s), but I didn't get to see them in concert (which I had been waiting for all my life, until I was old enough to go--this was the first opportunity---college!) until I saw them with KISS and Brother Cane in July 30, 1994, at the Gibson Guitars 100th Anniversary at Riverfront Park, Nashville, TN. They opened for KISS. This felt strange to me, because I didn't feel like they should be opening for anyone---they're Fleetwood Mac! I was there to see them, but most everyone else was there to see KISS, even the people with me. :mad: But it was during the time that Stevie and Lindsey both were on leave from the band, so we were left with Mick, John,Christine, Bekka, Rick, and Billy. They were out promoting the Time album. The concert was good, but it left me with a "where the h#ll is Stevie and Lindsey?" feeling. Somehow it just wasn't the same. There just wasn't the same magic, emotion, or feeling with that particular group of people---no chemistry. When I saw Fleetwood Mac in 1997 on the Dance tour with the Rumours lineup, it just felt right---------like this was the way it was supposed to be. Therefore,(after all this rambling :laugh: ), I would have to say that, in my opinion, this era of Fleetwood Mac just isn't the same without Lindsey or Stevie, just like the original era of Fleetwood Mac wasn't the same without Peter Green. I think that is why Fleetwood Mac went in a different direction after Peter left, so they would be more excepted---like it was a different band, and it worked. But, it didn't work here, because they tried to stay exactly the same as when Lindsey was in the band--trying to have the same kind of sound, etc. Rick and Billy weren't Lindsey (which I'm not trying to say that that was a bad thing), and the band was just trying to make them into something they weren't, and a sound that wasn't them really. For me, it just didn't work. It might have worked for me, if they had went in a different direction with these people, like they did after Peter. That is just my $1.25s worth of opinion. :lol:

...and which one is closer? :)

Christine was there???
:rolleyes:

Both struck me as somewhat nervous, maybe even unwilling, leaders of a megaband. They probably didn't have much time to adjust to the wild circumstances of joining the Fleetwood Mac juggernaut. There were things they did well: Don't Let Me Down Again, Go Your Own Way, I Loved Another Woman, Stand Back (those two forged the arrangement that is played to this day), Seven Wonders. Other ideas they had I wasn't so crazy about: World Turning, The Chain, Don't Stop (that lumbering, top-heavy arrangement has also lasted to this day).

Oddly, neither of them was able to evolve in any noticeable way in a live setting: e.g., compare Rick's playing of The Chain at the Capital Centre in October 1987 with Las Vegas in June 1990, & you'll hear virtually no difference in the riffs, the tempo, the attack or the general tone. This may have been the fault of the band in general, however. I call the 1987 tour the Digital Tour because everything went digital, & that gave a clinical dullness to the instrumentation (Mick's drums had never before sounded so bloodless & Christine's quirky keyboard presence was blunted) & the vocals, particularly the backup women. Speaking of which, there were the backup players. Oy gevalt. That was the year they all trouped out onstage for the duration of the concert -- one of the most unfortunate decisions the band's ever made, as far as I'm concerned. It was the tour that Fleetwood Mac got perilously closer to your worst MOR nightmare than it had ever been before.

Stevie herself was a different woman, but her stodgy comportment, which had only started that year, was sort of refreshing at the time, parodoxically enough. Christine was in great voice, but I wondered where that beatnik/bohemian quality of hers from years past had gone. I was sorry to see it go.

All in all, on okay big rock show (the catalog saved it) -- impersonal, not a lot of individuality & practically no idiosyncrasy -- about as far from the fey minimalism of the Tango in the Night album as you could get. And I can't help thinking it was probably deliberate.

Tango was my first FM tour and I have to say I thought it was great. In retrospect is does seem a bit sanitized compared to tours before it, but there was so much anti-Lindsey sentiment at the time that I was happy to see pretty decent sounding and playing replacements (I think this configuration of the band could've really shaped up to carry on the FM legacy -I'm not sure what went weird- sort of lackluster songwriting on BTM, but not terrible. And something about the production of that album-like how everyone says No Questions Asked sounds like it was recorded in a trash can -so does a lot of that album to me. It just sounds sort of "thin"-I thought Love is Dangerous was snappy and could've been big on the radio but Stevies voice was just kind of lost in the mix...anyways, I digress!).
After having seen Stevie for the first time on 3 Rock A Little shows she did seem tamer but, of course everyone knew she had just went through Betty Ford and it also seemed to me at the time maybe she was just being sort of respectful and being part of the band-as opposed to the flailer out there speaking in tongues. Again, in retrospect maybe a good old fashioned excorcism/snake charming is what those shows needed to really set them on fire. Stevie did not seem off in the shows I saw-she actually seemed more in control of her voice and just more refined, which as much as we all love a good Sisters Of the Moon excorcism, (cocaine recovery/Klonopin addiction/Eipstein Barr syndrome/leaking breast implants aside) it is inevitable I suppose, that even the Queen of Rock is bound to grow older and more refined at some point! How's that for a rambling, hum drum answer! :rolleyes:
Ricoh

It was the Tango album that drew me towards FM, but I soon became a solid Lindsey fan so for me FM didn't retain the same level of interest after he left. I didn't go to any of the concerts (partly because I was a student and didn't have money to burn) and although I bought BTM I probably only listened to it a couple of times. I didn't bother again about FM until The Dance.

I know Mick (amongst others) goes on about all the different versions of FM, but like golddustwoman says there are really only two versions that count: the Peter Green version and the Lindsey Buckingham version. And I do mean the Lindsey Buckingham version because the band was a shadow of itself when Stevie was there without him. I remember her saying in an interview that she could have left when he did and no one would have blinked and personally I think she should have done. Stevie on her own works fine - it's a whole different feel, style, emphasis, whatever you want to call it - but Lindsey and Stevie with FM - whatever their personal or professional lives now, feelings towards one and other (or no feelings) - are a duet within a band. The sum is greater than the parts.

My two-pennies worth.

Angela
x

Sacrilege! Bob Welch, and Christine, pulled FM through several years, that FM, most likely, would've DIED the death(=no BN, for you chiffoners). They got airplay. They WERE successful, even if not by Rumours comparison.
Do any of you wonder why Mystery to Me is CONSTANTLY listed as one of the favorite FM albums? What in the F did Bob Welch do to deserve this forgotten fate??? I don't GET it. I'd like to punch Mick in the mouth the next time he dogs Bob.
Ungrateful, stupid ****!(Mick) Greedy, ignorant loser! He's a real pro at milking the talent of others. Yet, he still forgets Bob. He must be the luckiest man alive....at least until his next bankruptcy....
:lol:

I agree with Homer. The Bob/Christine line-up is my favorite Fleetwood Mac line-up. Fleetwood Mac is NOT just the Peter Green & Rumours line-ups.

I enjoyed the Tango tour. I never really cared for the Stevie/Lindsey angle, so I really liked the show that I saw. Even better, without Lindsey there were more Christine songs, which made me VERY happy. I liked Rick & Billy live. I was only vaguely familiar with Billy & had never heard of Rick. But, they won me over. Billy is a very good singer with & Rick is a terrific, but underrated guitarist. I also LOVED the set list. The only thing missing were a few Bob Welch era songs. The only complaint that I have about that tour is those back-up singers, too distracting in my opinion. I prefer just the band.

The Tango tour was the first FM tour I saw. I became a fan in 1980, but when they toured for Mirage I was unable to go. I thought it was a great show at the time, but in retrospect, having seen Lindsey live now, there is just no comparison. Lindsey does something to that band-he sparks them or something-that no one else does except Peter Green in that line-up.

Not to say Rick and Billy are any slouches on the guitar. When they play their own music they are very, very good. But playing music Lindsey had crafted-they just couldn't create the same effect.

Stevie seemed really out of it during that tour (and also BTM tour) compared to say, the Dance tour or now. I didn't know the history then like I do now, and I know now why she seemed that way then.

I am very glad Lindsey is back=:-)

Vianna

I know this is going off topic, but he really is the jammiest person on this earth. How many times has this man gone bust? And, what does he spend it on? Surely not just the white stuff?

:laugh:

Angela
x

:mad: :mad: :mad: :mad: :mad: :mad:

No more ignorant words have ever been typed.

Haha! Chili's gettin grumpy! I would have said, the only version that counted is the Buckingham version. So then, THOSE would be the most ignorant words ever.

But WHY is it that Mick wants to forget the Welch years SOOO much? He acts like they were on hiatus for four years.
I think Mick's a slimeball.

I think certainly there are three major eras in Fleetwood Mac's history... the Green/Spencer/Kirwan Years, the McVie/Welch Years, and the McVie/Buckingham/Nicks Years.
But, in defining the three major eras, we should in no way slight the many other talented musicians who were at one time a part of Fleetwood Mac's ranks.

As Stevie would say, "each had their own charm"... and each brought something unique to the band. And for that, each deserves our respect. :)

I've often thought it's probably a passive-aggressive dig towards Bob Welch, because of the lawsuit.

Apparently they've made amends now though, so perhaps in the future, Mick will be more inclined to discuss the importance of the Welch Years to Fleetwood Mac's history.

I became a fan with Tango. I remember being upset that Lindsey quit, but was glad that the band managed to find a way to survive. Within a few months, I had gotten "Mystery..." and realized that the band had gone through a lot of changes.

I think Billy and Rick were trying too hard to be team players, to the point of not asserting themselves as much as they should have. It was really the first time in the band's history when the guitarist wasn't setting the band's direction. Peter, Bob, and Lindsey were brilliant in that direction. Billy is a great songwriter, Rick a brilliant guitarist (and from a skill level, both are arguably the best the band's ever had). But in some ways, they had mostly been industry insiders who worked mostly in the background. They didn't have the same production obsessions of Lindsey, which is not a bad thing, but in retrospect wasn't right for Fleetwood Mac. To be fair, I think Billy and Rick have come a long way in terms of defining themselves, and I'm sure that band would be totally different today.

As for the defining eras:
Peter Green
Bob Welch
Lindsey Buckingham
Billy Burnette

And, no, Christine wasn't at the Gibson gig, that happened BEFORE the release of the "Time" album (remember, they never actually toured in support of that album). I have it on video, and she's not there.

Rick and Billy
 

Arguably, indeed. You'd certainly get an argument from me that Billy is the band's greatest songwriter.

I think that's true. Things they've done since joining Fleetwood show a lot more individuality & scope. In fact, things they did before joining Fleetwood show a lot more promise.

How can every era be the "defining" era, Steve? In the past, I've harangued you about employing your sociological approach & then sticking an aesthetic preference label on it. You're operating on two unrelated planes.
Chris didn't play any gig with the Time group.

I don't think Chili will hate you for saying that. You're expressing a preference, which is perfectly valid (it would be no different in principle from someone hating you for saying you don't like Celine Dion, or chocolate pie).

Saying you don't like Rick's music with Fleetwood Mac is different from saying or implying that Rick's stint with Fleetwood Mac never happened -- or rewriting the band's history, leaving that chapter out entirely.

best songwriter?
 

Billy Burnette the band's BEST songwriter?!?!?!!!! Bwa-ha-ha-ha!! That's the goofiest thing I've ever heard. Downright heresy I say!

Well, look at the artists who've covered Billy's material over the years. Billy's not necessarily my favorite writer (actually Peter Green is). But, he writes songs that could be done by a wide range of artists in a wide range of styles. Take John McVie's favorite, "The Bigger The Love." In about a year and a half, Billy recorded the song with John and it had a very bluesy sound to it, and then did it solo with a very country feel to it. It's a good song, regardless of musical style, and THAT is the reason why I said it could be argued.

However, this is also why Billy didn't work out that well with Fleetwood Mac. What is a great trait to have as a songwriter made is songs sound generic with Fleetwood Mac. He really didn't have that quality that made him a uniuqe writer. Most of the other writers have been more focused in their writing in a way that makes their songs unique to that writer (save maybe for some of the blues stuff early on). The only Fleetwood Mac song that I can think of that was truely reinvented by another artist would be "Black Magic Woman."

Totally agree with this...I think they're both great musicians but just did not fit in with the 20 year (at the time) old atmosphere of "Fleetwood Mac".


I'll take that complaint a step (or 5!) further and say I think they butchered the riff of The Chain. Compare that loud, awesome and mysterious sounding intro. LB did during the Rumours tour to the version that was played during the Tango tour. The latter sounds like the soundtrack to a cheap 80s porno.

JMHO.;)

I would like to know where I said in my previous post that the only two eras of Fleetwood Mac that counts is the Peter Green era and the Lindsey/Stevie era. :shrug: I never said that, because I don't believe that! :mad: I think all eras of Fleetwood Mac are important. If it weren't for the eras in between Peter and Rumours era, the band wouldn't have survived. Here is what I said, I think that it should be reread, so everyone can see what I really said, or for that matter, go back and reread my whole previous post. Here is part of my previous post that is referred to.

:sorry: Also, I'm sorry about the incorrectness of the comment about Christine at the Gibson show (knew Stevie and Chris both left the band in 1994; I just somehow thought that it was after that show :( ), and the comment about the fact that they were promoting the Time album. I thought I had remembered them saying at the concert that they were working on a new album called Time, therefore I got in my mind that they must have been promoting it. In trying to keep all the fact straight about the band---because there are so many things to remember-----I'm bad to confuse things. :o Thanks for helping me get it straight you guys.

You are right that they were trying to hide Lindsey being gone as much as possible. The won't admit it, but come on. Billy had the same dark, curly hair, the same suit in certain publicity shots, and even a white Les Paul custom, similar to Lindsey between 1975 and 1978.

Now, to change the subject somewhat, Bob Welch has said that he offered to help the band out in 1987. How cool would that have been?

I always felt they tried this with Bekka Bramlett. They probably hoped some occasional fans wouldn`t know then...

I didn't know that. That would have been a fantastic choice. Why didn't they? Me personally would have liked that A LOT.

Well, except for holding a press conference announcing the 1987 tour & introducing the two new members.

Have never heard this theory before -- quite an unusual one, to say the least!

Billy's hair, clothes & guitar were intended to duplicate Buckingham?! Steve, Steve, Steve . . . . this is Roswellizing.

I thought the same exact thing.

I remember when they first took the stage for the Tango tour.
I was thinking, Wow, Lindsey decided to do the tour...............No, wait, they're just trying to make people THINK it's Lindsey. The similarity was striking.

there is a photo out there from the "rock and run" concert that FM played in 1983 (could have been 1982). it's the one of stevie leaning against mick as he's playing the drums. shes got both arms above her with a tambourine in one hand and her eyes are closed. i always assumed in the background it was Lindsey. then, i found out Billy actually played with them (with Lindsey there too, i assume, although i've never seen any other pics of him there) and so "Lindsey" turned out to be "Billy".

I always thought that too, to be honest, and I know 90% of people here disagree but I think Billy's contrbution to FM was crap. When I first became a fan and discovered that Billy was in fact a different person to Lindsey I thought he was there to fill the gap and as Stefan pointed out about Bekka Bramlett, was maybe there to 'fool' the more casual fans. I like Rick's music on BTM but can't get through a full Billy song without cringing. Furthermore, I dont think the casual fan would pay much attention to a press release about 2 new members.

:rolleyes:

Gosh, now you guys have me wondering if Lindsey was actually hired only to fool the casual fans, too.

;)

:lol: :lol: :lol: Good one :D