Something Lindsey should keep in mind
 

The Beatles recorded their entire Please Please Me album in ONE DAY.

See, Lindsey? It CAN be done!! :laugh:

Maybe 'cause the Beatles had four musical geniuses: Lennon, McCartney, Harrison and producer George Martin, (sorry, Ringo!) ...
and Fleetwood Mac only has one: Buckingham. :)

How long did each Beatle take to make a solo album?

Lux?

I'll answer my own question....

Looks like the solo Beatles came out with albums annually....till their later years when more competition required more time to achieve perfection (which is debatable if they ever actually achieved this). :)

Harrison's last album, before his recent farewell disc was recorded in the late '80s, wasn't it? A big spread there.....

Re: Something Lindsey should keep in mind
 

Yes, and everyone's holding that one up as their big masterpiece in studio experimentation, aren't they? ;)

Ok, Sgt. Pepper took about nine months.

Is he really that slow? Didn't the real work for Out Of The Cradle start in 1989 (sure you could say that he recycled a few TITN ideas but creative recycling ain't easy, as we know :nod: )

If Gift Of Screws started around 1995 then I would presume he had it finished at some point in 1999 and he did The Dance in between.

Stevie gave her at least ten songs for producing in 2001 and those took about a year and a half.

So he's slow. But he's not that slow. You want albums quickly out of the production line? You always have Splinter Group for that. ;)

He's pretty slow. Waaaay slow.

Re: Re: Something Lindsey should keep in mind
 

Hell yes he is. I will bet that moreso than not he agonizes over crap that he eventually goes back and uses his original idea after months of f*ing around.

Fleetwood Mac's "white album" was recorded in 6 weeks...that's a more realistic time-frame.

George only wrote & recorded when he wanted to...once he set his mind to recording an album, it didn't take him very long. Even a studio junkie like Jeff Lynne doesn't take very long to get the sounds he strives for.

Re: Re: Re: Something Lindsey should keep in mind
 

As we say in the South "Bless his heart" he just can't help it - "You know he's a little touched" :laugh:

As for FM FM, I think "they" were able to control him because he was the new guy on the block - after that however :laugh:

In the end, the music is always brilliant. So, I guess it takes what it takes :cool:

Re: Re: Re: Re: Something Lindsey should keep in mind
 

Funny how we all want all this work done by our favorite band, while we're all - my self included - enjoying ourselves on here. :laugh:

Harrison didn't play every instrument, reproduce his own background vocals or do his own engineering the way Buckingham could.. All those take a lot of time. GH needed Lynne. He was the brains. Harrison even struggled with a few rapid riffs in his guitar repertoire :eek: ....George had his own distinctive "slide" style, but Buck could play rings around him....

Quote:

Originally posted by strandinthewind As for FM FM, I think "they" were able to control him (LB) because he was the new guy on the block - after that however :laugh: In the end, the music is always brilliant. So, I guess it takes what it takes :cool:

:nod:

John went through a long stretch without inspiration. Then he went sailing and started writing again. Out of that spurt came Beautiful Boy and Watching the Wheels. And that's enough for me.

In a way, I still miss John.

....No you're not, Lux....

My next door neighbor is 16 and she's a big Beatle fan, thanks to her parents. :)

My favorite Beatle is John Lennon. But I like his "fat Elvis" period the best, ( '65 through early '66). My mom likes 1964. (However, the solo work both you and Carne Vaca mentioned is exceptional.) Lennon has ("has" in the present tense) one of the best rock 'n roll voices, and is a gifted songwriter.

Buckingham is a totally different vocalist, but I love his voice, as well. (Happy to see you had a great "close encounter" with him!) I don't like McCartney's. It's just too weak, IMO.

I know Buckingham credits Lennon's first solo album as a big musical influence for him.......I think Yoko really whipped Lennon into submission, though.... His best solo work, IMO, was when he was with May Pang -- His lost weekend...... He was freeeee then.

Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Something Lindsey should keep in mind
 

That's a load of crap...a BIG load of crap. George didn't play everything because he didn't HAVE to, NEED to, or WANT to. Harrison didn't NEED Jeff Lynne, either; the friendship and working relationship worked between the two of 'em, but it wasn't co-dependent...Harrison was a TEAM player...something Buckingham will never EVER get a clue about.

Lindsey did everything because he obviously has some sort of "control" issues. Out Of The Cradle was a masterpiece IN SPITE of itself. Just think how much BETTER it would've been had it not been such an ego-trip.


BTW, George could bury Lindsey in a sitar duel. :laugh:

Chili is so right here. Lindsey has too many control and perfectionist issues.

Holding OOTC and GOS back for so long doesn't help him or his fans in the long run. Life is just way too short.

Besides, sometimes the ridiculous amount of overtime he spends on tracks results in them sounding too produced.

Regardless of what people say about OOTC, it would have SOLD more if some of the songs didn't have the "glisteny" Christmas music-sound, sort of like "You and I" on TITN.

LB's SYW sound is much better. Much more rough. He should stick with that sound.

And he doesn't need all the decades he takes to get it. Mick and even John can help him keep that sound.

And despite all the knocks Stevie takes, she has control over sound too. Just look at the similarities between the Rumours outtake "Planets", presumably overlooked by Lindsey, and the John Shanks-produced version on TISL.

I don't think SYW is any less glossy than Cradle. In some places, I think it is more.

It’s his persona. You don’t like it, you stick with Fumble Fingers. :lol:

And just think how much *ss Peter Green could kick these days if he lost some of that “I’m so humble and unworthy of playing the blues” schtick. ;)

(Yeah yeah, he got older and he got subtler.)

It was the record company who kept GOS back and OOTC suffered from the same fate as Time and Street Angel.

No way am I going to swallow the claim of a particular sound ideal resulting in the commercial failure of an entire album.

It isn’t a “glisteny Christmas music-sound”. It’s an updated, guitar-centred version of the Beach Boys’ Pet Sounds.

Some here have labelled John Shanks as a “Lindsey-wannabe”.

Please explain what the hell you meant by that? :mad:

And then they say group players have no ego! :)

I wasn’t referring to the fact that the band you’re in is having success on a smaller scale or anything like that.

It was just that LB strikes me as one of those nerds/isolationists at school, people who don’t like the social chatter and hanging around that much. So it’s bound to affect to his music as well, in spite of all that therapy. ;)

Some nerds, even though they might not have the cosiest personalities in this world, are still just too damn cool. :wavey:

SLSKIM!!!
 

:wavey: ChiliD/ That Sounds like a Song Title!:o
:] Lindsey :cool: A Cool Nerd!:]ME TOO!!!:nod:

Yeah, but then again many view rock and roll as a social occasion, not lonely dabbling in the studio. I don't think it necessarily makes the music better but I do see where those people are coming from.


I fit into that too, so I suppose that's why Lindsey and some other guys (who I'm not going to mention) speak to me; I can tell they've been through at least some of that.

Lindsey, like I, has opened up in many areas as he's gotten older but the isolation that's at the bottom of it all still remains and affects everyday life, sometimes even in the tiniest things.

We'll never be managers of any corporation, anyway. ;)

It certainly does not have to be that way. But, it became that way when LB make the choice to record his stuff with FM, which is a band, not a solo act :cool: Interestingly, LB does a wonderful job IMO of spending tim ein the studio by himself and then with the band. SN certainly did sort of the same thing by demo'ing four songs without the band and then giving them to the band to use, perfect, etc.

Ok guys let's just face it, it's the pot, munchies and then the long naps in the hammock.

HAMMOCKS!!

*reminiscing yea olde ledge days...:D

Yes, didn't we used to randomly "shout" that word for no reason?

wasn't there a photograph...? If anyone can find that one back I'll be a very happy lindseyfan:)

One thing I found odd about all that was that she brought in completed songs, not mere demos. How does she do that? Are there three or four musicians in Phoenix who just jump and run over when she beckons?

In the past, she's had Jesse Valenzuela, ex-guitarist of the Gin Blossoms, run over to the her house to help her make the demos.

She has said a few times that she has people help her with demos. Don Ortiz is one. :cool:

Al Ortiz. ;)

Of late, it seems that Stevie records almost all of her demos with Al filling in whichever instruments she's not playing herself.
I have to say that they get a pretty good sound for just a basic demo.

I love how they did the "Sweet Girl" demo (which can be found on 'Enchanted') far more than how Fleetwood Mac arranged it for 'The Dance.' It has a lot more oomph and spark.

Carne... I think she brings them in with a more completed sound now, to better demonstrate the arrangement & feel she wants the song to have.

Oops "Don" Ortiz was this jerk I used to work with :eek:

:laugh:

Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Something Lindsey should keep in mind
 

Amen...All one has to do is find bootlegs of George to find out he needed no-one to help flesh out his ideas. (I included a link to one of the best sounding bootlegs I have of George that proves this, "Beware Of ABKCO")

http://www.bootlegzone.com/album.php...r001&section=4

I also believe some of the more interesting John Lennon material is what appears on a set called "The Lost Lennon Tapes" which I recommend (Available as either a small 21 disc set or the quite large 222 disc set...The 21 cd set is more easily available.)

And I can definitely say George was the team player as Chili pointed out, One listen to the "Get Back Sessions" proves that. (A fave moment that stands out is when someone working with the filming crew asks George "What's that George?" to which he replies "The new Fleetwood Mac album...")

Btw, George can also SMOKE anyone on the Ukulele :laugh:

That was no demo, that was a completed track, for cripes sake. I suspect they did a lot of tweaking and filling in on that sucker before they even considered releasing it. :nod:

Possibly.
Her demos from TISL were fairly fleshed out, too (for demos)... though not quite as much as "Sweet Girl."

Even still, it's obvious she doesn't just do simple piano demos anymore! :)

Actually, you're not too far from the truth. Stevie has always been able to rope in good musicians to assist her with recording demos. She hasn't always chosen to do so, which is why we have a lot of demos of just Stevie & her piano. But guys like Michael Campbell, Benmont Tench, Tom Moncrieff, the engineers Hernan Rojas & Shelly Yakus, Mick Fleetwood, Don Henley, Rick Nowels, Al Ortiz, Jesse Valenzuela, Les Dudek, Danny Kortchmar, Waddy Wachtel, Sheryl Crow, Sarah McLachlin & Tom Petty have spent many hours over the years with her recording demos.

I think she offers them brownies.

Laced?

.. or in paper flowers?

Another golden oldie:

Yeah, I guess you could say that Lindsey did damage the group spirit with his Tusk songs even though the band did marvellous work on the rest of the tracks. On Mirage they try to superficially put the band work to everything and it necessarily doesn’t work always. And I daresay that the extra musicians are only hindering the band interplay and thus the possible next album won’t be any better than SYW in this regard. But LB wasn’t the first to bring the extra hands in. ;)

It also seems to me that Mick Fleetwood hasn’t been interested in real band democracy for a long time; in spite of BTM sounding like a real band album Rick Vito still got treated badly. Mick obviously just wants FM with LB and SN now and lets them take the lead. In the music side, at least.

I know everyone says Rick got treated badly on BTM. I disagree a little. When Stevie joined FM, she only got to sing lead on two songs on the white album. And she was just a singer. Rick was hired basically for his lead guitar prowess, which is evident on BTM. He also gets quite a few song credits, sings lead on "Stand on the Rock" and co-lead on "When the Sun Goes Down" and "Love is Dangerous."

Maybe he had more songs that didn't make the cut, but the one solo lead vocal he contributed, SOTR, was pretty much a stinker. And I bet he had SOME say in which song of his made it to the album.

"When The Sun Goes Down" is probably the only concession to Rick on that album. I think "Stand On The Rock" is not; nothing on King Of Hearts really sounds like that one.

"SOTR", "Intuition" and "Got No Home" are Rick's attempts to fit in to FM without being overtly bluesy. I think a lot of King Of Hearts fits into that mold too, what with Wetcamelfood (in his review at the Penguin) speaking of it being the least like RV's musical self in his solo canon. So maybe some of the songs on King Of Hearts were offered to FM at one point and rejected (of course, ChiliD or someone else will soon prove me wrong ;)).

Picking the banality of "SOTR" over the other two was ridiculous especially since "Intuition" and "GNH" are very sophisticated songs. Rick probably thought "Intuition" didn't get the treatment it deserved and used it again on King Of Hearts.

I think they could have gone into a more blues-bound direction if Rick had been allowed to influence the band more.

I do think Billy Burnette got to do what he wanted so in that case I don't agree with the Post-Rumours fanatics. ;)

Well, I agree to a point. What I directly meant in my review was that I felt KOH sounded much more pop/rock orientated than the likes of "Pink & Black", "Lucky Devils" etc. (that's not to say those are "100% blues & that's it" either but you know. :)

I do recall Rick saying at his Penguin Q&A that FM recorded "Walk another mile" while he was with FM but it obviously wasn't used so you might have a point there in the rejection thing.

I do agree with you that if RV was allowed to do more of what he wanted in FM that FM may have gone the "back to the roots" route.

I often think that he maybe thought this is what Mick wanted to do when he joined the band (go back to the blues) and after getting in the fold, he realized this was obviously not in Mick's plans and thus with the shut out that apparently went on with his submitted material to the band, I'm guessing the "musical differences" view is at least partly the reason he must've left (although he usually just refers to it as "personal reasons"). I'm sure there may have been personal issues going on at the time as well anyways but whatever, this is all just my guess work anyways. :)

I could see why you'd think that Billy was "being allowed to be more himself in FM" but I don't know what to think there, I don't know much about "Victim of love" or the other outtakes and I do think he was "more himself in FM" on "Time" but not so much on BTM. I mean, sure, I love what he did on BTM, but to me I think he felt pressure to be more pop/rock sounding on BTM and hide the country a little bit (though he did certainly touch on it with Rick for "When the sun goes down") as he's sure never recorded anything else like ITBOMM since or before and the obvious John Lennon vibe I hear on "Hard feelings" says a lot as well. His teaming up with popular writer of the day Simon Climie for "When it comes to love" adds fuel to this fire also. I get the feeling this is what Billy felt, though Mick or whoever never actually said to him at the time "I want you to sound (this way)". Mick kept saying at the time what a strong writer Billy was/is and I think he wasn't worried about Billy's stuff not fitting in at that point as at least on the surface, it seemed Mick was more willing to go in whatever direction Billy was going to take things (more on "why only Billy" later) but I think Billy worried about it. This ties in with the many politics that I suspect have gone on through the years in FM history where, at the time, Billy was part of the "in crowd" (even if not "all access", certainly a lot more access than the likes of Rick who I don't think was allowed the freedom Billy was, with the well documented "Are you mine" recording w/SN, his work w/The Zoo, CM, etc. he was already in good standing) then but now, it appears Billy has been shut out and branded as one of the "little people" so it doesn't really matter I guess. :) My point though is that although Billy may have been allowed to do what he wanted, I think he put pressure on himself to not be himself, at least for BTM. Again though, these ramblings of mine are just speculation. :)

Well, I don't know if any of this makes any diffeence or not but I just wanted to make clear what my thoughts on the KOH thing were in case it was being misread is all. :)

John

There's a BTM outtake of "Intution" floating around, as well. It sounds VERY much like the final version on King Of Hearts with the exception of Christine & Billy singing backgrounds on the Fleetwood Mac version and Stevie singing on Rick's solo version. Well, that, and the Fleetwood/McVie rhythm section kicks ass on the Mac version...whereas Rick's solo version has a drum machine and Rick on bass duties, as well.


Who has been Eric Clapton's collaborator for four albums (and a fifth on the way) now, too. No wonder I've always thought "When It Comes To Love" would've been a good song for Clapton. Hmmmm... :cool:

It's quite possible Mick thought Billy fit in better with Fleetwood Mac because of Billy's rockabilly sensibilities. After all, rockabilly was always there, at least at the subliminal level, with Lindsey. Taking Tango aside for a moment, if you take most of Lindsey's Mirage and Tusk songs, the rockabilly influence is all over them. Of course, rockabilly informed punk in a major way, which is quite evident in music by the likes of the Ramones.

See, for Mick, carrying on after Tango had to be quite a daunting challenge, no matter what. Tango had taken the Fleetwood Mac sound in such a new direction that it would have been impossible to maintain that glossy sound without caricaturizing it unless Lindsey was driving it. Lindsey had moved from an essentially rockabilly-based sound to more experimental stuff that was really a progression from the Go Insane sound.

Fitting Rick's blues into the mix at the time was probably not what Mick wanted. But here comes Billy with this country-billy thing, and Mick probably saw an opportunity to maintain some of that essence instead of trying to imitate the Tango sound. Going back to the blues was probably too radical a change to make at that point, though if you really think about it, the blues was just beginning to experience a much-overdue revival at the time. I think Billy fit in with FM better in 1990 than Rick did because Fleetwood Mac had been a little twangy since Lindsey and Stevie had joined, whereas it had very little to do with the blues, except for Christine's approach to some songs.

And while I realize Rick is a very able guitarist, his solo stuff doesn't do much for me. It strikes me as a little too glossy, a la Roomful of Blues. I likes my blues with warts and all, which is why I stopped paying attention to Clapton a long time ago. Billy, on the other hand, does the rockabilly thing with energy and conviction. I dig his stuff. And though people often dis When the Sun Goes Down, to me it is the best damn song on that album. I love that Cajun flavor.