N.C. Parents Angered by Gay Prince Book
 

(If the Hartsell's refuse to return the book, I'm going to buy a replacement copy and send it to the Freeman Elementary School. The book isn't about sex... which I agree a first-grader is too young to be exposed to... it's about love, which comes in many forms, whether people like the Hartsell's "agree" with it or not.)

N.C. Parents Angered by Gay Prince Book

WILMINGTON, N.C. - The parents of a first-grader are fuming over the book their daughter brought home from the school library: a children's story about a prince whose true love turns out to be another prince.

Michael Hartsell said he and his wife, Tonya, couldn't believe it when Prince Bertie, the leading character in "King & King," waves off a bevy of eligible princes before falling for Prince Lee.

The book ends with the princes marrying and sharing a kiss.

"I was flabbergasted," Hartsell said. "My child is not old enough to understand something like that, especially when it is not in our beliefs."

The 32-page book by Linda De Haan and Stern Nijland was published in March 2002 by Tricycle Press, the children's division of Ten Speed Press of Berkeley, Calif. A follow-up, "King & King & Family," was recently published.

The publisher's Web site lists the books as intended for readers age 6 and up.

"This book was reviewed by the most reputable children's book reviewers in the country," publisher Nicole Geiger said. "Not one of them said it was inappropriate for children or should not have been published."

"There are many kinds of families in this country, and the children in these families and their friends deserve to see their situations in a positive light."

Barbara Hawley, librarian and media coordinator at Freeman Elementary School, said the book has been on the library's shelves since early last year.

"What might be inappropriate for one family, in another family is a totally acceptable thing," said Elizabeth Miars, Freeman's principal.

Hawley said she couldn't comment on the book because she hadn't seen it. She declined to say whether she knowingly selected a book on gay marriage.

The Hartsells said they are keeping the book until they get assurances it won't be circulated. But Hawley said all county schools have a committee that reviews books after their appropriateness is questioned, and the Hartsells must make a written complaint and return the book for review.

The Hartsells said they intend to file such a complaint and are considering transferring their daughter.

hey, that's a Dutch children's book:)

:rolleyes: and the cycle of intolerance is perpetuated in that kids home....seriously...you'd think parents would have bigger things to worry about than a book like this...

That's the saddest thing of all, Deanna. These parents have a wonderful opportunity to instill in their daughter an openness, understanding, and acceptance for other walks of life.

Instead, they'd rather perpetuate their own narrow-mindedness and misguided "values."

They're also blowing their chance to teach their daughter that it's Ok to be yourself, whether other people "agree" with it or not.

What time is the book burning in their backyard?:rolleyes: Guess intolerance never goes out of style.

- Jake

I agree with you, but at the same time, if they think it's morally wrong then that's their opinion. Many religions condem homosexuality. I am not saying I agree with religion, but it is what it is..... It is true that there isn't enough love in the world...why worry about a stupid book?

Rob
:cool:

Prejudice is prejudice, no matter how one justifies it.
Again, I point to the Ku Klux Klan, who also use religion to justify their hateful actions.
Far too many people use religion as an excuse, in my opinion, and we need to rise above that.

But, you know, if the Hartsell's think it's morally wrong... so be it. But it's not up to them to decide that NO child in that school disctrict should have the opportunity to read that book.

Hmmm, I have to careful of how I word this, or many people on this board will be hatefull with me.
I personally would not want my very young children reading that book. I would rather sit down and read it with her. Not every one has the same views. Just becasue some one dosn't agree with a life style choice don't call it hate. I personally don't agree with that life style, does that mean I hate gay people? No it doesn't.
God has called me to love and not to judge. God is the final judge in the end. We all will have to stand before him and give acount of what we say and do and what our motives were.
But I will probably get hatefull responds back for what I have said.
Actually I find the ledge very hatefull at times of others opinions. Mainly towards religion and Christians in general.

I live about 200 miles from Wilmington so this article was in my local paper. I just rolled my eyes when I read it. I guess I just don't understand how people can be so hateful towards other human beings and then claim it's because of their "Christian beliefs."

Intolerance in it's biggest, brightest, Judeo-Christian form. Unfortunately, I live in the Bible belt and stuff like this happens all the time. It's enough to make my skin crawl. :rolleyes:

Merf... are you throwing all Christians in the same bag?
Your throwing hate towards Christians, in the same way you claim Christians are all intolerent to others, you are intolerent towards Christians.
I personally don't know any Christians who hate gays.
How would you feel if I said, gee, I live 200 miles from the gay community, and they are shoving their perverse life style down my throat. That sounds hateful doesn't it.

I know a LOT of Christians who hate gays. I don't know if you live anywhere near the south, but it's reality here, more than anywhere else in the country. And it's a sad reality.

Umm... since when is falling in love with someone a "life-style"?:confused:

So Merf doesn't agree with a certain "Christian lifestyle" just as some Christian's don't agree with a "gay lifestyle". And she can voice her opinion just as a Christian can voice his/hers. It's too much to expect everyone to just agree with each other blissfully. The key, IMO, is action vs. inaction.

I've talked about things like this with some of my black friends, and many of them have said they can deal with the fact knowing white racists exist, they basically don't want to have to feel the effect of it. And that's what this reminds me of.

No one is telling these people what to believe in or not, but the minute they decided not to return the book they started stepping on the rights of others. They could have just sat down with their daughter and talked with her about the book. Maybe it could have been a nice little story about friendship. The first grader probably didn't put very much importance on the book at all until mom and dad started making a big deal out of it.

Imagine if there is a child in that school being raised by two men. This is a pretty awful thing to do to him/her, isn't it?

Nope, if the child's parents love him/her, there's nothing wrong with that. What Ã*s wrong to do, is for other people pointing fingers at it.
Just like pointing fingers at single parents, or mixed-race couples.

Btw, it's not that awful at all to be raised by two mothers or two fathers in my country.

EASY MARI!
 

You and I are in agreement. The awful thing to do to a kid being raised by two men in this community is to have this other family hold up a similar lifestyle and say, "This is wrong, and I don't want my child reading this smut and I will remove my child from this school if this is considered acceptable!"

But your point is a good one, because I was actually waiting for someone to say something about a kid being raised by gay parents being an awful thing to do to the kid. My grandmother recently said that about a friend's bi-racial kids. I just shook my head at her. :distress:

oh, okay, I guess I took one comment out of context.
my english isn't that brilliant at this hour (it's 1.26 ;) )
sorry for that!

That's cool...:cool: ...I figured it may have been one of those pesky language things...:)

phew:D
I guess it's the subject too, I react on it before I even read a post well. It's just such an endless discussion, religion & homosexuality... I've settled for more or less christian and more or less gay:D
Overboard with those pesky principles!

First of all, I haven't read or even seen the book in question. But I totally agree with Alison's comment and view about not wanting a young child to read it alone. I think adults (parents, aunts, uncles, teachers, etc.) should read WITH children as much as possible. Just think of the bond and memories created by having a loved one snuggled up next to you, sharing a good STORY (and remember, we're not talking non-fiction here) with you, and talking with you about it afterwards - explaining the parts you didn't understand, pointing out the nuances in the words and drawings you missed... Priceless.

Alsion, DO YOU plan on reading this particular book to your daughter, or discussing the subject matter in some other form? I'm not saying you should or shouldn't, just wondering.

However, I'd like to point out something FOR EVERYONE from Alison's post, and that is the phrase "life style choice". And the idea I'd like to impress upon everyone who may be reading is this (in general):

THERE IS NO CHOICE INVOLVED WITH BEING A HOMOSEXUAL.

I'm gay, and I always have been. Every gay person I've ever met has said practically the same thing. I remember having "gay" thoughts in elementary school. I ALWAYS knew I was different. I didn't know exactly how when I was young, but several years before puberty I figured it out. Did I hide it? Yes. Did I feel ashamed at times? Yes. But, my actions were only a response to the "normal", disapproving, frowning world around me. It was merely a case of mental (and yes, at times, physical) survival.

I didn't choose to be gay, Alison, no more than you could suddenly choose to turn off your attraction to men and start dating and having sex with women. Yes, some people do choose a certain kind of gay LIFESTYLE, but they DO NOT choose to be gay or straight (or bi, or transgendered or ... ). And I emphasive the word LIFESTYLE here because there are all kinds of gay people and gay lifestyles, just like there are all kinds of straight people and straight lifestyles.

The only other comment I'd like to make is about the words "gay community". There is no such thing. Gay people are everywhere. Yes, there are concentrations of gay people here and there, just like there are concentrations of Chinese people in Chinatown in San Francisco and concentrations of Italians in Little Italy in New York. But even these concentrations are different, and live differently, than the other concentrations around the country and world.

Okay, enough blabbering from me. None of this is aimed at any one person, and it is no way meant to be hateful.

Alison, I don't want you to think that I, or anyone else, is coming down on you for being Christian or for your opinion.

I should stress that I was raised Catholic, and I am a firm believer in God. I also follow the Ten Commandments and the Golden Rule.
But I found a lot of flaws and hypocrisy within organized religion, and I just couldn't be a part of that any longer. So I decided to cut out the middle-man, as they say.

For some that's heresy, but for me it feels right. And, at the end of the day, I DO believe in God... and isn't that what's most important?
But I certainly don't deny anyone else the right to believe as they choose to believe. My feeling is that as long as you believe in something bigger than yourself, and as long as that leads you to work towards being a better person, then you're doing something right.

But at any rate, and as Nixxxed said, homosexuality is not a "lifestyle choice."
This isn't deciding to become a vegetarian, or that your commute is too long so you're going to start working from home instead.

My sexual orientation was no more a choice for me, than yours was for you.
It's also not a perversion.
Quite simply, it is the way God created me.

My point was that many people cite the bible as a reason to justify "disagreeing" with homosexuality, and a number of other people also point to passages in the bible, in order to justify a wide variety of other prejudices.
To just say, "the bible says it's wrong," isn't really a strudy platform on which to stand, in my opinion. And we should open our hearts and minds, and try to rise above that old chestnut, "but the bible says...." :nod:

Alison thank you for putting it so well.

I can't help what other Christians do or think. Unfortunately there are many people who give Christianity a bad name. I DO NOT hate gays. I believe that homosexuality is wrong...and if that pisses you off, that's your problem. There is a difference.

As I said before I think it's too much to ask to expect everyone to start walking in lockstep together. That's your opinion and you have a right to it. And as long as it doesn't infringe on the rights of others in this civil society, you can believe in whatever or whomever you please.

But you might want to consider how offensive it is that you believe you have the right to judge anothers life as right or wrong.

I believe that Christianity is wrong...and if that pisses you off, that's your problem.

:laugh: :laugh: :laugh:

Well Markolas....hmmm
Well its not me you offended by that statement. But Jesus might not look so kindly at that remark, but I supose that is something you have to take up with him. After all the Word of God says, every knee will bow and confess that Jesus is Lord. Some will be very humbled on that day, encluding me.

No offense, but that comment always gives me shivers: "I don't hate gay people... I just think that what they are is wrong."
To me, it kind of sounds like, "Oh, I love black people... in fact, my maid is black."

I'd rather people show their prejudice towards me, to my face... rather than veiling it with false tolerance and acceptance.

"Love the person, hate the sin"... well, as a wise man once said, "I'd rather be hated for what I am, than loved for what I'm not."
And I might be a sinner for other reasons, but certainly not because I'm gay. :nod: :)

I do NOT hate Red Rover fans, but the song to me is wrong.
Yup, I'd have to agree with you, Johnny. These statements are not as benign as some may believe.:laugh:

- Jake

I'm guessing it's actually me you're referring to since I made the remark. Markolas just thought it was funny.

I don't know that Jesus would be offended by that remark, although I have no doubt he would be touched by your concern. And when the day comes I will have no problem atoning for anything I may have done or said in my life. I've made my bed and I'm prepared to lie in it. I also think that Jesus would be bright enough to see there are a couple of meanings to my remark.

You see you and I obviously have fundamentally (no pun intended) different ideas as to the nature of whomever we will meet in the afterlife. And that's OK. Just don't lord over me (will the puns never cease...) with your opinion, and it's all good.;)

It doesn't. It makes me sad though.

I don't think I'll be checking this thread again because this arguement will go on for a very long time...and it seems like at least on this board I'm losing. I've shared my opinion and you can take it the wrong way or whatever you want.

Whether you believe it, or believe it's wrong...Jesus loves you.

I truly believe if Jesus came back and saw how His good news was twisted and turned for two thousand years to fit the needs of straight white males, there would be a new meaning to the "wrath of God." I think the history of the making of The Bible and the the two thousand years of persecution of anyone who stepped outside of The Roman Catholic Church and now in America, the fundamentalist Christians like Jerry Falwell ( sorry Dissention ), proves my point. So, I pray to God on my own terms and based on Christ's words in the four Gospels, which BTW never mention gay people, and I also pray for Him to forgive all of those people who make money in His name through spreading fear and hate in His name.

and God made gay people in His image - so He was wrong and sinful :shrug:

Also, I think it is not people hating the Christian posters here. I think it is what is perceived as blind following of twisted words and selective enforcement of archaix parts of The Bible that Christ Himself said he was obviating when he made a new covenant with mankind. I see this blind faith as ignorance and/or the results of brainwashing by organized religion. That tends to make people angry, esp. when coupled with "I do not mind you even though you are really only to be tolerated in MY Christian US and you are going to hell." :laugh: I mean who would not take offense at that, esp. when society as a whole pretty much hates gay people based on religion, which is not the law :shrug:

BTW and as an aside - Johnny, there is nothing wrong with having a black maid :cool:

No, people here don't hate Christians...but, there are many Christians who have a martyr complex, and are so obnoxious about their religion that they make other people crazy. And when someone has finally had enough and decides to tell the Christians off, the Christians get passive-aggressive ("I'll pray for *you*"), or sometimes just plain nasty (with threats of hellfire).

It's nearly impossible to take them seriously, or to think of them as anything other than emotionally unbalanced basket-cases.

I laughed at Sugar's comment because I knew what kind of reaction it would get: the Christians can dish out the condemnation, but they usually can't take it.

And really there's my point. I took Lala's exact sentence, substituted "Christianity" for "homosexuality", and this is the response.

This isn't about personal belief. This is about respecting others in a civil society. This one's a martyr. I make her "sad"; I can take her response the "wrong way". Why? Because I put her in the same relative place she put homosexuals in, and she doesn't like it. Not unlike Alison with a veiled threat of "that's something you'll have to take up with him." This is the superiority thing that bugs people. Last I checked, being a Christian doesn't make you God.

And I will take it up with him or her or it or whatever greets me on the other side. I will say that I thought very hard about the choices I made in my life and that, more often than not, I lived the way my heart led me. I believe that him or her or it is going to think that's pretty cool.

Again, this is about respecting others in a civil society, not personal belief.

Amen and well said!!!!!!!

AND - it is perfectly within reason to be a good if not great American citizen and non-Christian!!!!!!!!

I'll do you one better...it is even possible to be a great human being and a non-Christian, all at the same time.

Well damn. I guess I better start shopping for a new religion...cause I'm after the title....:laugh:

I am, of course, kidding....but seriously...the Christianity I was raised with had values such as: Do not judge others (the whole s/he who is without sin can cast the first stone thing...that would be no one...)...judgment is set aside for God and God alone...

soooo...with that in mind...isn't saying that "homosexuality is wrong" a judgment??? Sounds like one to me...that's not very Christian IMO....

I agree with above posts as well...you can be a good person and not believe in God....but it's amazing how many people hear someone say they don't believe in God and automatically assume that that person is an uncivilized heathen or something....

I have my own beliefs...and I keep them that way...as MY OWN...I don't believe anyone else should have to have the same ones as me etc...I get really annoyed with the whole "what's right for me and my church is right for everyone...or it's hellbound with ya!!"

Whoa, he's been twisted to fit MY needs?:)

- Jake

Isn't there an indirect reference or two? Or is it in the Old Testament? Do today's Christians only follow the four New Testament gospels or do they also follow the Old Testament?

The Old Testament says:

A marriage shall be considered valid only if the wife is a virgin. If the wife is discovered to not be a virgin, she will be stoned to death.

If a married man dies without children, his brother must marry the widow. If the brother refuses to marry the widow, or deliberately does not give her children, he shall pay a fine of one shoe and be otherwise punished in a manner to be determined by law. [One shoe!!??]

And here's the kicker:

A woman who has not found a husband shall get her father drunk and have sex with him, thereby perpetuating the family line.

:laugh: :laugh:

Hmm...funny how we never hear about these things anymore...but Leviticus (one of the gay references) is cited again and again and again......

Yeah, this stuff is really unbelievable. I really find it interesting when homophobes, like Fred Phelps, use passages from Leviticus to condemn homosexuality- but conveniently "forget" all the other passages. And it's not even extremist's like Phelps who based their bigotry on Levictus. Many christians simply swallow the scripture without even researching the rest of the chapter. Women, in particular, should be appalled at the majority of Leviticus.

It baffles my mind why anyone in this day and age would organize their life based on ignorant writings from well over 2000 years ago. Oh well..........