Stevie Nicks' Feeling on Michael Jackson?
 

Has Stevie ever said anything about him? I know a lot of celebrities support him and I think it is sick. The fact that he gets a standing ovation at different music awards is so disturbing. I'm crossing my fingers that Stevie doesn't support him. Does anyone know?

Sorry if I am stiring things up on this board, I don't know if there are any MJ supporters here...

there's at least one: me.

why do you think it is sick that celebrities support him? why are you so disturbed that he receives a standing ovation?
what is wrong with celebrating an extraordinarily talented singer and dancer?

i hope the media's sensationalist approach to MJ coverage has not unduly influenced you. why are you so offended by MJ? have you heard both sides of the story?

i strongly suggest you visit the following websites before you unleash any wild judgments about mj:
http://www.geocities.com/plabcures/snarlindex.html
http://www.geocities.com/plabcures/peterpan.html

Listen, the fact that he has admited that he slept in bed with a child that was not part of his family is enough for me to think he is a nut case.

Here's the rule that I generally apply to celebrities in these kind of situations. If a normal person was doing something--say my next door neighbor--how would I feel about or classify their actions? Illegal, immoral or just plain weird? If they fail my test, then the celeb does too. And I'm sorry, any 45-year old man who admitted he slept with children fails all three of those tests!

I highly suggest that if you think Michael Jackson is innocent, that you spend some time educating yourself on the psychological profile of the average child molester. You'll find some alarming similarities between them and Jackson. They don't ever think they are hurting their victim either and they usually categorize their interactions with children as "innocent, beautiful", etc. Sound familiar? And oh yes, when confronted, they also usually proclaim their innocence loudly all the while blaming the victim for misunderstanding their actions/intentions.

Neverland is a pedophile's dream come true-the perfect lure to attract victims with--again, another typical child molestor tactic. Have you stopped to think about the type of psychological damage that molestation does to the victim for the rest of their lives? If not, I suggest you look that up to.

And you know what--I love Stevie to death, but I could care less what presidential candidate she supports, whether she belives there is life on Mars or if Michael Jackson is innocent. I don't look to celebrities to give me insight into what I should be able to figure out myself.

:rolleyes: I hardly believe Christopher was releasing any "wild judgements." You, of course, have the absolute right to support MJ as a fan. And I have the right to say what I'm about to say. Don't jump down the throat of those who think that he is guilty. Because quite honestly? Look at the facts! I would suggest that in addition to reading those websites above, that you personally check out information about pedophilia, THE CRIME that MJ is accused of. Because MJ fits the profile. Why is everyone so quick to blame the VICTIMS when a celebrity is involved? MJ may be a celebrity but NO ONE is above the law!!!

I am totally with DeeGeeMe 100% on everything she said.

Your rule is psychologically unsound. It has the same problem as those useless checkout aisle dream dictionaries. Sure, there are some dream images that are suggestive in any context. However, for an accurate reading, each dream symbol needs to be analyzed in the context of the patient's individual experience. Similarly, a man's action needs to be looked at relative to his own life experience. You can't just say "Aha! Molester!" without legitimate evidence.

My point is that MJ is by no means "normal", and this is largely due to his upbringing. He was forced to perform all the time--against his wishes. His father belittled him constantly. His father beat him with electrical cords and belts, to the degree that the mere sight of Old Man Jackson induced vomiting.

So, am I unreasonable to conclude that MJ was deprived of a childhood in the full sense of the word? No. MJ never got to play with his friends, he was just shuttled off to the next concert or TV venue.

Consequently, I am much more inclined to think that Neverland is not a pedophile's dream, but rather a child's dream. Specifically, it fulfills the childhood wishes MJ was never allowed to live. And now that he is a multimillionaire, why shouldn't he be allowed to live his dreams? Yes, it may be eccentric, but if he wants to ride a merry-go-round at age 45 because he never got to at age 5, who are we to condemn him? One of the links I provided above offers a convincing argument that MJ is trying to look like Peter Pan. No surprise, considering MJ's many references to the boy who is eternally young (e.g. statues in Neverland, mention of him in interviews).

Ok, you might now ask, what about all the children he "sleeps with" and invites over? In fact, they are merely peers not objects of sexual desire. MJ's emotional growth was halted because he was forced into adult situations long before he should have been. So he is simply trying to live his childhood. The "profile of a pedophile" keeps getting waved in my face, but another significant aspect of it is that the wrongdoer is an emotional adult. MJ thinks of "sleeping with kids" like we thought of slumber parties when we were 10 or 12 years old. Just because he has a 45 year old body does not mean he is operating on a commensurate emotional level.

Moreover, if we are hypothesizing that MJ was a molester, it seems highly unusual that allegations would occur a decade apart. Like gambling, alcohol, and other psychological addictions, pedophelia is a compulsion. A ten year span between incidents is unheard of in actual pedophiles. And surely if MJ was committing sex crimes during those ten years, we would have heard a lot more allegations. For me, the evidence to support a claim of pedophilia is lacking.

When did MJ claim the victim was at fault? And I'm not sure I can agree with the argument that proclamations of innocence are: 1) significant characteristics of pedophiles; and 2) grounds for greater suspicion(!).

Well, if by "admited" you mean "admitted", then that statement is incorrect. In fact, MJ admitted that if kids are staying over, he lets them sleep in the bed while he takes his repose upon the FLOOR.

While I fully subscribe to innocent until proven guilty, Jacko did one thing that suggests to me that he is guilty. When he made the absurd comments about the police roughing him up and that he was still in pain from the handcuffs, he was clearly trying to get sympathy. That's a tactic of guilty people. When they get in trouble, they try to be a victim.

As for blaming it on his up-bringing, I don't buy it. There are many people who grew up in extremely difficult circumstances. They, too, didn't have normal childhoods. But, they don't do the type of weird things Jacko does.

That is another generalization. But how many people grew up with exactly the same circumstances as MJ? Nobody but MJ. So the argument that many people had difficult childhoods... is not valid at all. It doesn't work.

Hey, no one answered my question. Has Stevie ever made a statement about MJ? I know it shouldn't matter what she has to say, but I truely would not respect her as much (as a person) if she supported him- the same man that admits to sleeping with children, however "innocent" it may be.

Your right. Many people have much worse childhoods. Raised in foster care, being beaten by their parent, having a life threatening disease like cancer, losing their parents, depression, the list goes on and on. And almost all of these people survive and turn into healthy adults.

This is exactly why Jackson has lost so much credibility. He has lied about so many other things unrelated to the sexual abuse allegations that it is hard to find him trustworthy. Lying about plastic surgery is one thing, but going on TV and spending practically the entire interview talking about how much pain you are in because of the police "mistreatment" is another. He just cannot keep his trap shut!

He has shown complete disregard and disrespect for the court system and the charges filed against him by showing up very late to his arraingment and by dancing on his SUV and having an party back at Neverland after the court appearance. Insanity. Even his lawyers can't control him, and that is a BIG problem.

How do you know they aren't objects of desire for him? Whether or not he is an "emotional adult" does not mean that he doesn't have sexual desires. He is a grown man, and with that comes sexual desire in one form or another. Now that his children's paternity may be in question, we don't know if he ever even slept with Debbie Rowe. Too many things don't add up.

Are you out of your tree? Pedophiles absolutely tend to go on for years and years until they are locked up. You've got to understand that they are sexually attracted to children. It's their sexual orientation. As a result, they have one of the lowest "cure" rates among any criminal offenders and/or sexual offenders! I worked in law enforcement for several years and Investigators, Victim Advocates & Sex Crime Experts will all tell you that they honestly don't believe that pedophiles can ever be "cured". It is not unusual for a pedophile to molest generations of someone within their reach--i.e, their own family or a neighbor, etc. In the criminal population, pedophiles and child murderers are considered to be the lowest of the low.

The Today show this morning had a fascinating interview with Maureen Orth of Vanity Fair. In an issue that will hit the stands next week she details the latest allegations against MJ and documents other cases where the parents and the victims were too intimidated by MJ and his thug lawyers to proceed, or that they were just flat out paid off. Orth is a very highly regarded investigative journalist and has been following Jackson for 10 years now. She alleges that MJ has paid off the families of his victims with cash, cars, etc. The patterns are all similar--he prefers victims who come from broken homes--he stashes the parents away in seperate guest houses, he intimidates his own employees from testifying against him, he gives his victims alcohol in soft drink cans & plies them with pornography to weaken their inhibations. Yeah, that's normal behavior all right.

Listen, I'm glad you're so thrilled with him and that you think that his "bad childhood" gives him free reign to molest children. You're the ideal juror for his upcoming trial. He wants people just like you on the jury so he can get off and continue to molest children. Why he doesn't even need to supply his excuses--he's got people like you who are all too willing to do it for him. I think it was PT Barnum who said something about suckers being born every day. Congratulations, you prove Mr. Barnum correct.

I am NOT saying that his bad childhood gives him free reign to molest children (if I have not made it clear before, I feel MJ is totally innocent of molestation charges). I AM saying his upbringing is a good explanation for his child-like behavior, which suggests he is NOT a molestor.

Where is your proof that he was lying about his pain? And even if he was, it just supports my theory that he is a child in his mind. It's hard to be more childlike than to exaggerate an injury to get something you want. Children lie like that all the time. I know I did.

Most of you people are confusing eccentricity with guilt.

Anyone with any any actual psychological knowledge knows that you can't say, "Just because Mr. X's childhood seems TO ME worse than MJ's, MJ must be guilty. If other people with completely different upbringings can survive and become 'healthy,' MJ must be guilty." Sorry, it just doesn't work that way. I can name many examples of cases where the patient had a GOOD upbringing with perhaps one bad event, who showed much stranger pathology than somebody with a "bad" abusive upbringing.

Okay..you kind of proved other's points there...he's got a child-like mentality?? Children lie all the time!! Well....if he'll lie about something as ridiculous as plastic surgery (an actually think people will believe him) Then what's to stop him from lying about the molestations to save his own ass??

Also...didn't he have several siblings...who all grew up in the same family....now Latoya is eccentric...MJ is just plain chalk full of NUTS!!!!

First, Barnum said "There's one born every minute" (not day). If you are implying that I was sucked in by some smoke and mirrors act by MJ, think again.

MJ wants people like me on the jury because we have considered the evidence before just accusing him. You may find it hard to believe, but I have not always been an MJ supporter. At one time, years ago, I was like you--fumbling wildly in the dark, eager to point an accusing finger. Only when I began to look closer at the so-called "evidence" did I detect something rotten in the state of Denmark. Now that I have examined biographical details and looked closely at his eccentric behavior of today, I feel confident in proclaiming MJ is innocent.

I'm no sucker; I changed into an MJ supporter of my own volition after I examined all of the evidence. Furthermore, I have even persuaded other family members to my point of view, thanks to the strong evidence for MJ.

I would suggest you all take a serious look at the evidence, but since MJ-bashing is so safe, I doubt any of you will. As somebody above tried to say, there's a sucker born every minute. Well, you all seem to be eating up every little pellet of MJ misinformation doled out by the media. So, "congratulations, you prove Mr. Barnum correct".

Michael is NOT a child. Even if he is more like a child emotionally, he is an adult mentally and physically. He makes his own decisions about how to conduct himself, and should be held accountable. He is just used to controlling everything and everybody. He lives in a dream world of his own creation.

His lying about his pain and/or the reasons for it were evident by the fact that the video shows him thanking law enforcement for their kind treatment of him. It also shows him waving and flashing his "victory" sign with his "injured" arm when he is leaving the police station. Not to mention that during the interview, he said he couldn't raise his arm past a certain point because of the "terrible pain", and not one minute later, is seen on camera raising that same arm to smooth back his hair. :rolleyes: :rolleyes: :rolleyes:

Do you have some type of job/education credentials that would allow you to make these assertions about psychology and the pathology of pedofiles? Just wondering . . . .

Haven't seen or heard anything yet . . .
 

. . . from Stevie or the rest of FM for that matter Christopher. One would assume they are focusing on their own matters right now. I guess most people are waiting until the verdict comes in, but chances are good many people will speak up. Stevie wasn't too thrilled with Madonna's using Britney for "PR", saying Madonna was much too "old." But the Jackson matter is totally different. I can't imagine Stevie, Fleetwood Mac or most of the public will give Michael Jackson much slack, talented or not, if he is found guilty. But the trial is hardly even underway yet. He IS talented. I give the man his due, including his day(S) in court.

Yes, I said that he is child-like emotionally.

Yep, I said that too.


MJ's child-like mentality is shown by, among other things, lies about seemingly unimportant details. When children lie, they frequently lie about insignificant acts. But they cannot sustain a lie about something major that everybody is breathing down their necks about. Children are notoriously bad liars when it comes to something significant. I can think of countless examples where I could lie about something minor (comparable to MJ's plastic surgery), but broke down when I tried to keep a lie going about something major (comparable to the allegations). One time when I came home from the 3rd grade and my parent accused me of being in a fight, I tried to lie but broke down quickly.

Also, your logic is faulty: "He told a minor lie, therefore, he is likely to tell a major lie and any important statements he makes are to be called into question." So since I lied about why I was late to class the other day--a minor lie--does that mean I should be suspected of lying when I say, "I don't know anything about the virus that's sweeping the university."? After all, I did tell a minor lie. So what's to stop me from lying about the virus?

About the other family members...they were often part of the problem. For example, MJ's brothers would frequently have sexual intercourse with girls in the same room as MJ, who had to lay awake and listen in confusion and alarm. Don't forget that MJ was *the star* though, which brought added pressure, which was compounded by his younger age.

Yes, I am graduating from Boston College this year having studied psychology and psychoanalysis.

I know that MJ is not an actual child. He is a physical adult. But an emotional child. As you said, he lives in a "dream world of his own creation" and is "used to controlling everything and everybody." It sounds like you are describing a spoiled brat who daydreams and has imaginary friends.

I feel that for MJ, sex is not of interest. Notice how he speaks in a constant falsetto (that is not his real voice; his real voice is much deeper, and one can catch it during his concerts when he is out of breath from dancing and the lower voice accidentally pops out). I think his use of a falsetto is a denial (either on a cs. or ucs. level) of his sexual maturity and "manhood". He may not even realize he is doing it.

This is not faulty logic. This "lie in one, lie in all" idea is something that is used everyday in the criminal justice and court system. That is why Jackson is going to have an uphill battle when it comes to his credibility at trial. This is why no defendant show give a statement or interview to the media when charges are filed against them. More often than not, it just gives ammunition to the prosecution.

He is spoiled. I don't see how anyone can not agree with that when you watch his "shopping spree" in Las Vegas. To me, spoiled means getting what you want, when you want it, all the time. That is Michael Jackson. For example, he showed up late to his court appearance simply because he didn't give a darn whether or not he was there on time. You can't use the excuse, "but I am Michael Jackson" as a way to get out of those types of responsibilities.

Well, just becuase the court uses it doesn't mean it is correct. We all remember Johnny Cochran's logic: "If it does not fit, you must acquit."

Precisely! I was going to use the shopping spree example myself. Such acts only go to prove he is an emotional child. MJ really IS a spoiled child, emotionally--something he never got to be when he was a physical child. The same goes for him jumping on top of his SUV after the first hearing. That seems like the act of an innocent child to me. If MJ really was guilty, I highly doubt he would be jumping all over the place with glee. So, I do agree that MJ wants to be and can afford to be a spoiled kid.

Am I the lone MJ supporter on the Ledge? I thought there was at least one other.

I for one will hold judgement until I hear the facts and evidence from the trial. I know better than to believe everything the media says, as well as everything a celebrity says.

If he is found guilty I will trust that and that will be the end of it for me, but until then I will continue to listen to and enjoy his music...and if he is found innocent I will continue to listen to his music.

I have mixed feelings about this whole thing..I think Stevie usually keeps her comments to herself about these sensitive subjects like this, and subjects like the war in Iraq..and politics..

Chris

just a thought:

imagine MJ in Oz, how many episodes could he survive?
:angel: :angel: :angel:

I have not stated that I think Michael is guilty or anything, I, like some others, am waiting to hear more of what comes out of this whole ordeal, right now the media is filled with one side, and I am aware of that since I work in the media business.

What I do think, however, is that the man IS sick, he has problems and has lied about dumb things in the past. No, they may be simple little lies but once someone lies to me all trust is gone and I do think that is someone is willing to lie about little things then lies about big things are next. And perhaps MJ doesn't think he is lying (if he is) Many sick minds delude themselves so much that what may be a lie, to them is pure truth.

Now the court system is supposed to have an innocent until proven guilty stance, though it often times seems more like guilty until proven innocent. Either way, he's in this mess yet again and there are some disturbing facts brought to light.

But whatever the outcome...all I can do is sit back and accept whatever the court system finds in this case...

I felt a *little* bit bad for him until the interview where he said the police roughed him up....I would buy that if it was wrapped around a Stevie shawl!

That interview is just one of MANY things that has screwed MJ. Frankly he is full of it if he says the police abused him. Perfect example was when he moved his arm up to smooth his hair...PLEASE...the man is not all there. And when you take into account his sleeping in bed with children, something just does not add up. I do not care how much of a childhood you didnt have, that is just wrong. Sociology will tell you so.

~Alex

Michael jackson supporters do not have the facts or rationale to back up their support. They come across as over-zealous and just as crazy as Jacko himself.

On the other hand, people who have a shred of sanity can see him for what he truly is: an insane pervert.

I'd like to see someone come to the defense of Michael after those papers documenting his stalking and harrassing of the boy and his family bubbled to the surface.

Jacko is a pig and his public behavior makes him seem like a cold and careless man.

I could not agree more! Thanks Dissention..

~Alex

You're quite welcome, Alex. :D :wavey:

I certainly do not want to deny MJ could use some psychological treatment. He is not a child molester, but I'll be the first to admit he may need counseling. Let's remember, pedophilia is neither the ONLY explanation for MJ's eccentricities, nor the MOST LIKELY and SATISFACTORY (MJ shows many more non-pedophilic than pedophilic traits; of the latter, he shows few if any). Isn't the first part of that statement enough for at least reasonble doubt? I am constantly amazed that so many people can be so set in their opinion without having looked at all the available facts and theories.

For those of you (Tango, Drummer, Shangri) who state you want to wait until more evidence comes out, it is very refreshing to hear such a reasonable reaction to the allegations.

I don't follow you. I think I have shown more support for my claims than anti-MJ folk have for theirs, and also, I have done a more complete job of fitting all of the circumstances into one theory. The only "rationale" and "facts" I have heard from the anti-MJ posters here are statements such as "Jacko is a pig," "Many people have difficult childhoods," "MJ is just plain chalk [sic] full of NUTS!!!!". These statements are just the same unfounded, biased blather the media spouts out every day. None of them would stand up in court.

And speaking of over-zealous:
I smell a witch-hunt afoot.

----

Here's a question: how do you anti-MJ people think MJ's facial metamorphosis fits into your child molestor theory? Can anybody posit a solid explanation that is more satisfactory than the eternal child (Peter Pan)/experience childhood theory?

Well, yes, I think I can. It would appear that he has such self-loathing regarding his own appearance that he literally is attempting to turn himself into someone else--ideally, a white woman--which is what he looks like these days. And a damn scary one at that.

I'm sorry, but no explanation that you could possibly offer me could ever defend the actions of a child molestor. And given that I've got a few more years of living over you and have actually worked in law enforcement, I can tell you right now that at the very least he ought to be serving a term for child endangerment--that whole dangling the kid off the balcony thing was enough for me.

Tell me, when the evidence comes out, as it's beginning to, and it's not pretty, what will your defense be then for him? That he was framed?

Why on earth would anyone want to frame him? Do you think Tommy Mottola wants MJ's records not to sell? I think he thinks that if he throws enough lies out there that the air will be so cloudy that people will come away confused. And clearly, you are quite confused youself to go to such great lengths to defend this creep.

I wish you well in your future career. May you never have to work with a child molestation victim.

I will agree with you that he wants to change his appearance. But not into a white woman. He looks like no white woman I have ever seen, or want to. He DOES look like Peter Pan. I hope some of you have taken the time to look the photographic comparisons here:
http://www.geocities.com/plabcures/peterpan.html

It seems far more likely he wants to look like Peter Pan. Why, he lives on a ranch called Neverland! What more evidence do we need? And why would he want to turn into a white woman? I am unable to locate any other evidence to support that. Please show me evidence that supports the white woman hypothesis.

But that is assuming from the start he is a child molester. Rather than looking at ALL of the evidence & arguments and THEN forming a conclusion, many are entering the debate with the PRESUPPOSITION he is a molester, thereby causing them to ignore or reject evidence that runs contrary to their belief.

Wait, does this mean you KNOW what the evidence is?

Well I was wondering when the ad hominem attack would rear its vicious little snout. It's always easier to attack your opponent personally when you have no good points with which to attack his arguments.

To be frank, none of us know more than what has been leaked.

It seems to me that you act as if you know the evidence and you know that Michael Jackson is innocent. You're quite zealous in demonstrating this. I, and others, are just as zealous when we say that he is guilty, yet you frown upon that behavior. Let me ask you, what makes your beliefs so superior? Because you think Jacko is innocent, you believe that it's okay for you to defend him as vidorously as we tear him down, when in all actuality, your beliefs are no better than ours.

So before you start screaming once again about us not knowing the evidence, quit with the moral superiority bull****; you're in the same boat as the rest of us.

Be truthful: how was the little shindig at Neverland last week? Did you get to touch his lips?

Saline or wax? 'Fess up.

I'm not screaming about not knowing the evidence, I'm writing that you all should look at the available evidence and facts before just lashing out. Do you feel think statements like "Jacko is a pig" and "MJ is just plain chalk [sic] full of NUTS!!!!" are well-thought out?
I don't understand this question. Touch his lips how? Plus, I did not even attend the get-together at Neverland. I'm in Boston not the West Coast, and I did not receive an invitation.

Would you attend if you got one? Probably. :rolleyes:

I've looked at the facts and they all support the boy, not Jacko. Do you honestly think that they would go to all this trouble over a he-said he-said kind of thing? That's rather ludicrous and delusional.

Unfortunately, I think your ardent support of this cold man clouds your objectivity. I, on the other hand, have looked at it objectively and believe the boy. I really had no opinion of the first case and was never a fan of Jackson's one way or the other, but when it came out that the descriptions the boy gave of Jacko's genitals matched up with him physically, I started to really question things. Then we find out about bedroom alarms (say it was to be safe from intruders all you want, it was like trying to get into Fort Knox), a secret room of unmarked videotapes, saying he sleeps with young boys, corroboration by lawyers of the child, death threats to the man who introduced the boy to Jacko, leaked documents that prove harrassment and stalking on the part of Jacko's camp towards the boy and his family (which Geragos knew about, yet never mentioned it), and Jacko's behavior over all of this; it really makes a person wonder about guilt.

With all that info and the endless amount of other info out there, how can you say that he is absolutely innocent? His freakish look and sleep tanks and monkeys and Elephant Man bones have nothing to do with this; it's his behavior towards children and his attitude about all of this. He's guilty as sin.