Joan of Arc
 

Does anyone else love this song??? I downladed it a few weeks ago, and have been listening non-stop! I love the music, and Stevies vocals are excellent imo (considering when it was recorded).

I can't see why this song didn't make it onto TITN, as I think it totally fits the mood of the album and would have flowed nicely. Just my 2 cents... :)

With the exception of a few cringe worthy lyrics, I adore this song and can't believe it hasn't made a record.

There is an even better version out there than the outtake we all have. I used to have it on cassette a few years ago, but the tape got eaten and no one else seems to have it. Stevie sung it completely live in the studio with the band backing her. It is AWESOME. Hopefully it will surface on a master reel.

I love the drums - very catchy from the start. The repetition of the Turn to the Wall line grates on me. Really, the song reminds me very much of Illume.

- Jake

Maybe that's part of the reason it never made it...? They didn't want to repetitive songs (i.e. WISYA) on one album...? :confused:

I have 2 versons of this song. One of them is more "demoish" for lack of a better word, or at least I think so. This is the one she repeats the first verse "They wanted images, when the images were unspoken". The other one sounds a little bit more polished to me, that's the one that has the hand claps in it. I like them both.

I think I have the polished clapping version.
I think what's missing for me is swome kind of vocal climax to the song. It sounds like it's building to something that never really arrives.

- Jake

Amen to that. Great song, it just needs to be tweaked, or even completely reworked for its second half. I invariably turn it off when she starts talking about limousines. And yeah with a reworked chorus instead of just Turn to the Wall, this could be an excellent album track.

There is so much gold available for the next FM album. Mistaken Love, Mystical Love (<--- I am a biig fan of this song), All The King's Horses ... arghh the list in endless.

Meanwhile All The King's Horses is another one which is for the most part great but could do with a reworked chorus.

Yeah, but didn't Joan of Arc ride a limo as she led her men?:)
BTW, the next album will be solo, not Mac. You're reading the wrong crystal visions.

- Jake

There is a great...
 

live in studio version available on the "1979 Tusk Demos-Lindsey's Songs" cd that is currently in circulation...

Joan Of Arc (Dated-3/9/86 5:41 in length)

Brian j.

Re: There is a great...
 

That's the one on that CD?!

OMG, I can't wait to get it in the mail, Brian!! You made my day!!

:laugh: :wavey:

Re: There is a great...
 

And where does one get this cd??? :(

Re: There is a great...
 

Sometimes it's frustrating when dealing with demos because there isn't necessarily a song title that's used across the board. Especially when there are several versions of a demo. I wrote down the lyrics to what I think is the "live studio" version of Joan of Arc that I got. I downloaded it a while ago as "joan of arc alt." To me, this version sounds like an earlier demo. If I were going to name both versions this one would be "joan of arc demo" and the other one with the hand claps would be "joan of arc outtake" because that's the one that I think was album ready. Anyway, here are the lyrics. For those of you who have the "live studio" is this the one you are talking about?

They wanted images
When images were unspoken
They depended upon illusion
Calling the illusion gold and glitter
And they came in tired
Said tired was the end of the line
Well I can't save you
Joan of Arc

They wanted images
When images were unspoken
They depended upon illusion
Calling the illusion gold and glitter
And they came in tired
Saying tired was just the end of the line
But I can't save you
Joan of Arc

Well there's a few martyrs in our century
They take a limousine
since everything else is taken care of
And they don't even know what they die for

Turn to the wall
Turn to the wall Joan
Joan of Arc
Turn to the wall
Turn it to the wall baby
Well no there's really nothing that you can do
to make it better

Gone like the wind
Like the stars in the dust
Well her little toy solider is covered with rust
And your beautiful eyes well they look sad to me now
And I don't even know why you left me

Well there's a few martyrs in our century
They take a limousine since everything else is taken care of

Turn to the wall baby
Ooh turn it to the wall
Turn to the wall Joan
Ooh turn it to the wall baby
Joan of Arc
Turn it to the wall baby
Ooh turn it to the wall Joan
Well oh no
There's really nothing that you can do
Turn to the wall baby
Turn to the wall Joan
She says "well is there anything that I can do for you
to make you better"
Says "no, well"
Turn to the wall baby
There's really nothing you can do for me
You can't make it better
Ooh
She saw it all it was a tiresome ending.

Re: Re: There is a great...
 

The lyrics are the same...But at the end it sounds like Christine McVie is possibly saying "Will that be enough tonite?", To which Lindsey respond "Yesss" and Christine chuckles "Huh".

It's definitely a live in the studio take...

Brian j.

Re: Re: Re: There is a great...
 

OK, that's the one then. I just listened and turned up the volume at the end and heard Chris and Lindsey. I like the other version better. It's almost got an asian sound to the music, and it also doesn't repeat the cheesy limousine line.

Thanks for posting those lyrics Paleshadow; I thought it was 'There's a few murders in a century, they take limousines', and unsurprisingly this made no sense to me. But now it does :P

:laugh: That's OK. I'm sure they are posted other places as well. I was just getting confused as to which version was which. I wish I could edit out the limousine line.

Doug

Actually the limo line helps me understand what she's trying to say. I think, anyway. Who knows with her.

- Jake

I think the whole "martyrs/limousine" verse is laughable, but that's just me. Martyrs taking limousines? Stevie is out there, but this just confirms it. :laugh:

I don't think it's any more laughable than the story in Mick's book of Stevie saying she knew how Marilyn must have felt. Certainly Marilyn had it all in some ways, but many people today see her as a martyr to the demands of Hollywood, fame, and love.

- Jake

Well, Marilyn was quite different than most movie stars, both in the way she lived and the life she led. I think it's ridiculous notion for Stevie to say she knew how Marilyn must've felt; Marilyn was quite the fragile woman-child whose problems traced back to before she even set foot in Hollywood. I don't see Marilyn as a martyr whatsoever, but whatever floats others' boats. :laugh:

Did you ever "Blonde" by Joyce Carol Oates? Not historically accurate, but a fantastic read about Marilyn.

Personally, I like the Jeremy Spencer song with the same title on his Jeremy Spencer & the Children LP quite a bit better. I could hear Stevie doing lead vocals on THAT track.

I do not think she was saying she was MM. Stevie said she was referring to the feeling of reaching the top at an early age - Where do you go from there - Rumors II? She was also referring to the lonliness felt by many who get huge adulation from fans via applause, awards, etc. - but they then go home alone to their "normal" lives. So, I get what she is saying and do not find it strange at all.

I think the limo line is cool and does not have anything to do with how we traditionally view a martyr. I think she is being almost sarcastic by calling herself (or whomever) a martyr (she may also be saying they call me a martyr) and then saying she is a careless, clueless, limo riding individual or something like that.

My $0.02

I don't either. I said that that it was ridiculous for her to say that she knew how Marilyn felt when Marilyn had mental illnesses that contributed to her state of my mind.

But I understand what you're getting at. Unfortunately, I think that line is another of Stevie's indulgences (i.e. clunky lines that no ordinary fan could relate to, therefore rendering it useless). :nod:

Well, there's THAT :laugh:

I know. Unfortunately, (or fortunately depending on how you look at it :laugh: ). We are pretty much walking historians for her - so we get it when mere mortals cannot without tedious explanation!! :laugh:

:nod: :laugh:

But even we can't relate to the indulgences! :laugh: I dare anyone to say they relate to:

Well, you know me better than I know myself
"Will you write this for me?"
He said "No, you wirte your songs yourself."
That made me stronger
That made me hold onto me

It's crap. ;) And she didn't even write the song completely by herself. :laugh:

When I think that Space Needle or any other song could have been there instead of that tripe :mad:

Martha Stewart reading the phonebook in that voice of hers would be a better listen.

"Stephanie Lynne Nicks, 555-9810. Oh, that reminds me of a seared black truffle I once made with white chiffon icing."

Even though we're not used to it in one of Stevie's songs, I've always felt she was being rather sardonic in "Joan Of Arc."

She's chastizing celebrities for a shallow reliance on image and affectation ("They depended upon illusion, calling the illusion 'gold and glitter'")... rolling her eyes at their "trivial" complaints ("They came in tired, and they said 'tired' was the end of the line")... and she's scoffing at the notion of those who feel they have it so rough because of their fame ("Well, there's a few martyrs in our century... they take a limousine, because everything else is taken care of").

They consider themselves martyrs to the cause, but "they don't even know what they died for."

And she's saying that she can't save any of them from themselves, because she's not Joan Of Arc... "this time."

To me, it reminds me of the sentiments she's conveyed about the meaning behind the phrase, "Priests of nothing," in "Has Anyone Ever Written Anything For You:"So those are the things I've always felt "Joan Of Arc" was about.

"That Made Me Stronger" isn't one of my favorite songs (although I love the line, "Don't call me when you're lonely")... but I feel the best thing about Stevie's songs is that, even when we can't relate to the specific situation itself, most of us can relate to the ideal behind what she's saying.

So no, we can't relate to a famous friend turning down our request to write a song for us, and telling us that we can do it ourselves... but most of us can relate to those feelings of self-doubt and wanting someone to hold our hands thru something difficult.

I think many people have heard their friends say things like, "You don't need my help getting that job," or "You don't need me to introduce you to that guy over there... do it yourself."
And on that level, it is relatable.

Is Stevie wrong to not make the situations more universal? That's hard to say.
I think sometimes when you strive to make something too universal, it ends up becoming generic in the process.
Stevie's an honest and forthright writer, and she writes about what she knows best... her own life, as she's living it.

At times, it may come across as self-indulgent or narcissistic, but it always comes off honestly.
And I think it's why Stevie has some of the most rabid and devoted fans around... when you listen to her lyrics, she's not just singing at you, she's letting you into her life, with all of its glamour and romance, as well as all of its doubt and loneliness.

So we may not share common experiences with her (How many of us have been to Betty Ford?), but we do share common emotions, desires and fears.
One doesn't have to be rich and famous to relate to what she's saying in her songs in those regards. :)

Yahoo Johnny Stew-
You're explanation of JOA is exactly what i was trying to word properly in my head in then I saw you read my mind and stole my thoughts and put them to words very literately. How do you always do that? Get out of my brain!

And I agree, we seem to think Stevie is narcisisstic if she writes lines that are abviously about her own life "he said no you write your song yourself" but almost all her songs are about her life. Just because "children get older and I'm geting older too" seems more universal, it is not any less narcissistic, as again she was writing about he own life. And like Johnny Stew said, it's not that you have to be so literal and say "hmmm, I've never had a famous friend who told me to write my own songs", it's that you have had a friend who encouraged you to be strong and do for yourself what you are capable of. And again I agree, it's these little glimpses into her life that we know are genuine and real that keep us hooked. If you like Celine Dion you might think that she was inspired to sing I Drove All Night because at one point in her life she really did drive all night to be with someone she loved. But there's just a good of chance that someone in her management said "Celine, here's a song you can make us all millions more dollars with, so sing it like you mean it" and she said "oui oui!" ...
but we KNOW Stevie had a low point and wanted Tom Petty to help revive her...and that is far more interesting, whether you are in love with the song or not. Now if you are in love with Celine:eek: , don't flame me here-as this is the Stevie page. Go do it in Chit-Chat (since I never go to that page!)
RICOH
p.s. dissention: I did read "Blonde'and loved it!

Give me a song like TMMS over Every Day or Maybe Love (which she did not write at all, if I remember) any day.
TMMS is not my favorite on that album, but it's not me least favorite, either.

- Jake

over the weekend my hubby was listening to several demo cd's by the Beatles and then some Jimi Hendix, Miles Davis and Allman Bros. live and many others.

and I've come to the conclusion that self-indulgence makes great music...

btw, as a writer I can totally relate to That Made Me Stronger...

so if you don't like any of her songs: "don't listen to Stevie when you're lonely" :laugh:

"that made me stronger"
 

i actually like the music which i think saves the rest of the song...and i really don't have a problem with the whole song. It's just that some of the lyrics could have been rephrased a little better: "will you write this for me, he said 'no, you write your songs yourself'" kind of irks me when i hear it.

Re: Joan of Arc
 

YES!!!! (Except the "considering when it was recorded" bit.:) I LOVE Stevie's voice on Tango!) This is perhaps my all-time favorite Stevie song, and it SO should have been on Tango. It is AMAZING, addictive, hypnotic...................

"Turn to the wall, baby
You go up against the wall now..."

AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAHHHHH! I-LOVE-IT!

So true.:)

My version is very soft and it is hard to understand all the words. Would someone with a better copy email me about getting a copy? I will be glad to share the demos that I have.

I have the "Live In-Studio" one, but not the one with hand claps. Does anyone know if it's available for download anywhere? Thanks :)