Who do you think stole Stevie's demos?
 

Stevie told the DJ at WMMS (somebody correct my history if it's wrong) during a live phone-in interview in 1981 for "Bella Donna" that her so-called "Almanac" demos ("Cathouse Blues," "You Could Forget," "Designs of Love," "Goldfish & Ladybug," "Nomad," "Sorcerer") were stolen from her Hollywood Hills home in the late 1970s -- or at least borrowed & never returned. She said she thought she knew who it was because that group of demos was worked on at a particular time & she knew who was living with her or hanging out with her a lot at that point. Has she ever specifically said any of her other demos were stolen?

I think that two likely suspects are:

1. Tom Moncrief -- who played bass for Buckingham Nicks shows in 1974 & who played bass on & helped record many demos in the late 1970s & early 1980s with Stevie. Those "Almanac" demos predate Fleetwood Mac, so it's likely Tom had access to all those tapes. In fact, Buckingham Nicks even played "Sorcerer" in concert.

2. Hernan Rojas -- who helped engineer a number of Fleetwood Mac albums as well as Stevie Nicks studio demos, & who also had an affair with Stevie during the making of "Tusk," according to the latest Mojo article.

Listening to all the reel-to-reel transfers that are circulating now really clarifies the extent to which these two guys participated in Stevie's demo "sessions" through the years. Apparently, they were around a LOT.

So, who are your suspects?

Chris Nicks.

Her own brother?!

Re: Who do you think stole Stevie's demos?
 

They played Sorcerer? Oh my, what I would have given to have seen that. She also says in her Storytellers show that someone stole demos and copied and returned them. She was still working with Tom during the Bella Donna sessions, so if she did know it was him, she didn't seem to have any reservations about continuing to work with him.
As for Hernan, some of the Tusk stuff that has leaked is fantastic. It could be him, both him and Tom or neither.

I have always wondered about that.

Yyyyep.

Re: Who do you think stole Stevie's demos?
 

I think the butler did it!
Oops, sorry... been reading too many old-fashioned mystery novels lately. *blushes*

I guess either Moncrief or Rojas are good possibilities, though Stevie continued to work with both well after the demos would have been stolen.
Rojas was still working with her as recently as 1987, when she recorded "Silent Night."

If Stevie ever suspected either of these two men, she apparently didn't let it get in the way of their working relationships.
I wonder if she ever pin-pointed whodunit.

To answer your other question... I don't recall her ever mentioning that any other demos have been literally stolen. Everything else we have seems to have leaked from the studios where they were being recorded.
Then, of course, there are those "master reels," which have leaked because Stevie declined to buy them back, having in her possession the original copies of the tracks.

I have to ask, why would, or why do you think that Chris Nicks did it?:shrug:

Does anyone think that Stevie suspects that Chris did it? How is there relationship anyway?:confused:

Cherchez la yorkie/poodle/shih tzu.:nod:

- Jake

Not that I have any idea about who may have done it, but why would Chris do it? What would be his motive, or how would he benefit from it?

Maria

I hear they are very close

Pip

David Letterman stole them

Ah, the ex-husband. Of course! :laugh:

LMAO!!!:lol:

Can someone explain to me how demos work?

Why would she send them to everyone in the industry when she only works for one record label?

Is she so desprate that she has to send them to a ton of producers or am I confused on how the system works?

No, no... it wasn't/isn't a case of her shopping her songs around. Stevie has always been generous with her music, and when her friends, musicians, etc., like a song or songs, she'll give them a cassette with the early version of the song(s) on it.

In the case of most of the demos/outtakes that are floating around out there, it seems that these were leaked by someone... mixers, engineers, night-custodians... who had access to the tracks at the various studios at which Stevie records.

Ok... i have heard a lot of Chris Nicks bashing over the years... but have seen absolutely no proof that he is this shady character that so many of you have made him out to be.

i remember once some people were blaming him for the liner notes in the Rock a Little CD being messed up.... which i am SURE is a mistake of the printing company.... i worked for one for a while and i am somewhat familiar with what goes on and how often we let the brothers of our clients into the building to help put the pages together for stapling... lol... they normally hire some 19 or 20 yr old college kid and pay them $7 an hour to sit there and listen to their headphones and put the stuff together.... like i did... lol...

and on the demo subject... why the hell do you all think Chris Nicks would be the one who leaks demos? and also... i am somewhat curious as to why he has such a bad reputation amongst fans anyway.... what HAS he done that is so bad? I would think that if he was this awful person intent on sabotaging things in Stevie's professional life (such as liner notes and leaking demos that she doesn't want released) Stevie wouldn't have him around and as involved as he is.

Since first hearing all these rumors about him years ago... i still have never seen anything concrete to support everyone's claims... seems as though a lot of people here are full of **** and don't know what they are talking about.... and Tiff.... stop tracking Stevie's flower orders.... it's none of your business why she sent flowers to someone in Glen Parrish's family... and it's freaky that you want it to be your business....

Right on sista, Jess Lay! People shouldn't judge a person based on what they hear. Chris is an awesome person, and it's sad to see him get cut down by people who don't even know him. :(

I'm not bashing Chris Nicks. I've met him & talked to him on more than one occasion, and I don't think he's such a bad guy. I can't speak for everyone else. In regards to the demos, as someone else pointed out, Stevie is very free with her tapes among friends. I doubt she had everything under lock & key in the studio in those days either. Surely that's how the bulk of what we have got into circulation. But he's helped a little of it find its way out.

I didn't track anything. Someone submitted a bunch of scans she had.

Chris Nicks may be an awesome person (and a devouted brother to Stevie) but he a lousy graphic designer. Stevie has allowed him creative control over some of her merchandise, and the result is amateur crap. Most of her tour books and her Street Angel cd to name a few....are all under-par. Stevie Nicks' cd artwork and merchandise (and Fleetwood Mac's for that matter) could be so much better than it is. Giving family members jobs in the company is an admirable gesture, but it isnt' always the best move.

you know this for a fact? or have you just heard it from someone who has been told by "a reliable source" as most people say when they want people to believe them....

that's fine- we can all have our own opinions of art.... but do you know which designs exactly are his? you could be disliking someone else's art while thinking that it is his... and even if he is a bad graphic artist.... how does that make him the shady character so many of you have made him out to be over the years? i just don't get it.... i thought i might understand after being in the internet fan community for 5 or 6 years.... but all i have heard is crap without anything to back it up.... help me out here...

simmer down, home skillet.......

Maria

We don't have to attack other posters for no reason. For all the things that Tiff has done for other fans, I don't think she needs to be insulted. I can't stand when people do that to other generous fans.

Why do I think Chris Nicks had a large part in leaking the demos? For the simple fact that he probably had a large amount on tape and he didn't keep them under wraps. I'm not saying he did it out of spite, I'm saying someone probably copied or stole them from him. That's all.

And I have been a HUGE and vocal detractor of Chris Nicks and have stated why on numerous occasions based on what I've encountered and what friends of mine have encountered. I don't feel the need to post all about it once again. Even if it was just a bunch of stories and rumours floating around (which they aren't), some of it had to be based on fact at one time.

Feel free to have whatever opinion you want on Chris Nicks, I think he's an asshole and won't be changing my opinion. :wavey:

:laugh: :laugh: :laugh:

back in the mid/late 80's, a friend of mine house sat for Mick Jagger and Jerry Hall, and he found a demo tape of the material for the then unreleased "Steel Wheels". He swiped it, made copies, returned it and we all had copies of the album prior to release...

just goes to show, it could have been anybody...

as to the Chris stuff, I, too, have heard Chris being knocked over the years but around Stevie solo tour time, you always hear stories of people who actually meet him always say how nice he is..open and willing to talk to fans. So I will reserve my personal judgement until when and if I ever meet him. But it's just an old habit to pick on Chris for his merchandising capabilities that FM/Stevie Fans have, but I think Jonathan Todd has replaced him as the fan's whipping boy...

dissention...Jessica Leigh is a long time member of the Ledge and is also very generous with her fellow fans...I think we should leave their discussion between them... :)

Regardless, it doesn't excuse such rudeness. I just don't think personal attacks should be posted, do it through private messages or emails. When I see them, I'm gonna cry foul. Sorry, it's just how I feel. :)

Debbie (catdancer) and I can certainly vouch for that. :rolleyes: :nod:

I didn't really seem to get the impression that Jessica was bashing anyone.... just sounded to me like she was defending someone who actually has no voice here to defend himself... what's so wrong about that? It seems hypocritical to say that we shouldn't attack other posters (which is great and true), but then in the same breath say that Chris Nicks is an asshole. So it's okay to attack people that aren't posters here, especially when we don't know them? Sorry, I'm just a bit confused. And no, obviously this is no attack on you, either... just an observation and opinion. People are entitled to their opinions, and you have clearly stated yours... I commend you for that.

Also, saying that someone may have stole copies of demos from Chris is just like saying that someone stole them from Stevie, so she would be to blame for that? How would it be anyone's fault if something was stolen from them? LOL I don't understand that either... :confused:

Have you sat down with Chris and had him show you all of his designs? I have, and I thought they were pretty freakin' awesome... but maybe that's just my opinion. Some of the designs you are referring to might not even be his... and sadly, most of them may never see the light of day due to politics that are involved with everything in the biz. I think he had maybe one or two designs that were released late on this FM tour... not enough for people to notice. I don't think Stevie would allow Chris to be selling t-shirts or designing merchandise to begin with if she didn't like the designs herself, regardless of the fact that he is her brother.

Then we obvioulsy didn't read the same post from Jessica. ;)

I stand by my assertion that Chris Nicks is an asshole. I've met him and thought him to be an asshole and numerous friends of mine have met him and have had less than stellar encounters. So, at least I have something to base my opinions on.

Also, what I said about Chris Nicks and the demos being leaked was that I believed he had some on cassette, didn't keep them under wraps, and they wound up in the hands of people who copied them/stole them. I never said that it was a situation where anyone deserved blame for doing something *wrong.*

But there will always be someone who is a "friend" of Chris Nicks that will pop their head in around here, just like they did when someone claimed that Chris told them Stevie's father was dying. :rolleyes:

And, for the record, he may be a fab-o graphic designer, but the things that have been released to the public suck BADLY.

Sorry, he takes full responsibility for the TISL tourbook and the Street Angel CD artwork. :nod:

Yep, I'm with you, dissention. I've met him too and he is an asshole. He's arrogant to say the very least. He acts like he's the star :rolleyes: And calling his sister "a ****ing bitch" because she didn't show up for a soundcheck on time, is not my idea of brotherly love.

As for the demo's ~ Stevie is recording while she's on the road. I've heard she leaves them everywhere in the hotelrooms (she's kinda sloppy, I guess) so anyone could've come in (the maid, roomservice) and take them.
As for the earlier demo's I suspect Glenn Parrish. Someone on The Chain saw that he was selling golden and platinum records on ebay. I don't know if there's any truth to that, I've never seen it so this is based on hearsay. Why do I suspect him? Because when was working with Chris Nicks in New York doing Stevie's fan club, he suddenly disappeared and took all the money with him. I've heard this from Chris himself. His exact words were:"Glenn's gone. He's gone back to L.A., problem is he took the money with him and I'm loosing my shirt here". So evidently Glenn needed money and maybe he sold the demo's.

Debbie

Or stumbling around drunk as a skunk after concerts and screaming "This show sucked!" at the top of his lungs. Or, making passes at pretty young fans and making obscene gestures. Even though he's married.

Nice image to be projecting!

*waves to Debbie*

:wavey:

I know.... like we said, the guy is an asshole. I'm glad she left him in the USA, at least I didn't see any sign of him in Germany.

*waving back to dissention*

Debbie

Hey there...I'm not speaking for anyone else but myself. I don't know Chris, so I can say nothing about his character. But I don't know how you can equate my distaste for his questionable graphic design skills with quality of his character. Two entirely different things.

How do I know which designs are Chris's? It's easy...they are the bad ones...and most times, in the fine print, he is credited.

Chrsi was friendly enough when I met him in Vegas and Glenn Parish was a lovely guy

Pip

Oh Dear!

What a topic!

You know for years I have always wondered about the karmic ramifications of listening to these certain "boot leg" tracks. It was always my feeling that my love for Stevie ran deeper and that my respect for her would always win out in the end in even the greatest of all temptations - her "bootlegs"!
It seemed to me that if I was a true fan of hers I would know and respect her one single wish for her music that she writes and records for the world. And that being simply that we allow her to put her blessing on the music that she gives us, ultimately.

And though there are those who understand the right principle of not charging actual monies for Stevie's unreleased music under the premise that she never actually made a dime for the recordings so, therefore, why should they, there are those who are wrongfully profitting on her talents and vulnerability!

We know she will not let us down and that she'll offer to us something very special and from the heart, but also something that she feels good about as well - first and foremost before we, the public, are to have it.
I often wonder what she thinks when she sees us out in her crowded audiences when she performs and whether or not she asks herself if maybe this fan or that fan stooped so low as to obtain my unauthorized music by whatever means possible. It is no wonder we rarely catch Stevie looking straight at us fans in the audience anymore. One could become bitter over such thoughts of betrayal.

Or maybe what she thinks is simply that they love me enough to care about my unauthorized material, and for that I am grateful!

As for myself, I will never profess to being a saint for I do own Stevie's "CRYSTAL VISIONS", though I did not seek this out, it was given to me as a gift. It is my greatest treasure and I cherish it...but, really at what price?

We talk of defending or offending the ones who are to blame for such a outrageous act of betrayal and violation of trust in the creative industry and here we are buying/swapping music that was never meant for our ears to hear. Who is there to defend Stevie and fight for her honor as an artist when we say oh let's obtain some her music by origin of questional means - music that she never had any intentions of allowing us to hear in the first place.

Can someone explain to me what it is we do when we agree to do that to Stevie. Can someone explain to me who it is we've become when we've reached a point of bragging that we have all of Stevie's "Unreleased, Unauthorized, Unpublished, Unpopular, Unknown, and Undoubtedly Underappreciated works of music she put her all into and was left "Unpaid" It is something that I do not understand.

What I do know is that there are certain laws of the universe that if followed to its degrees you should be able to live a relatively happy and successful life. One of those laws roughly outlines that anyone who expends an energy force to perform an act of service or produces goods for another shall be compensated for that energy and time used. In order for the individual to continue providing their services or goods they must be compensated for their time and energy!

I know how many of you feel about the subject, and oh how I envy you. I hope that someday I wouldn't care as much. But these days I still can't help but feel that "WE" are just as guilty of theft as the bums who enabled the materials to us initially.

On the other hand...I can't ever rule out the possibility that all of the said materials were intentionally dispursed so as to create the "buzz" it takes to always peak an interest in certain artists when their careers hang in balance.
Bootlegs have been around for as long as their have been recorded music and this phenomenon will never change. A sense of "sensation", if you will, is always good for artists of all kinds. In its way, it keeps us coming back for more! This theory is not new, and is the only one I personally use to justify why I can listen to "CRYSTAL VISIONS" and still sleep at night.

I could never be in a position to even begin speculating as to who allowed Stevie's property to walk away as it did on countless occasions. Although I do have strong opinions about the individual/s who were entrusted with the responsibility of ensuring that these materials do not walk off or get spirited away and yet allowed them to do so.
That this simple task was the very least on the list of jobs that Stevie should not have had to worry about. We're talkin' basic professionalism 101. How can one not suspect that a close insiders' deceit and greed was afoot. They will have their special song to play when the time comes for them to play it for their own final judgement.

Finally, what I do hope and pray for is that Stevie will follow Bob Dylans' lead and release a box set containing all of her "bootlegs" and "previously unreleased demos" for mass consumption. And that someday she'll be able to forgive us for loving her so much, and then maybe I hope she'll have the last laugh!

Love, Peace, and Magick ~
Moon Brother

I highly doubt that her reasons for not looking directly at fans correlate with anything that has to do with bootlegs.

And she's said on multiple occasions on-stage that she could care less. The only thing she's mad and disgusted about is that someone in her life stole such personal things; that's all. I really don't think she feels betrayed that her hardcore fans cherish them. It's not as if a huge chunk of the worlds population has them or even wants to hear them.