SYW vs TISL sales figures
 

I dont think anyone posted this yet, and I know there has been interest in SYW sales numbers compared to Stevies' TISL 2 yrs ago....I dont know about you guys but before the release of SYW I was totally expecting Fleetwood Mac to sell at least double of what Stevie did!!....so does this make SYW a failure sales wise...?? Also these numbers may give creedence to the fact that miss Stevie may just go ahead and do another solo record...... the only thing to keep her in Fleetwood Mac would be to do big business on the road....and I really dont think they'll ever do another concert tour on this scale again.



This is from Billboard.com in the Ask Billboard section posted this week:

STALKING STEVIE

Keith,

Can you let me know how many copies have sold to date of Stevie Nicks' "Trouble in Shangri-La" as well as Fleetwood Mac's "Say You Will?" Also, I was curious if any of the songs from Stevie's last album like "Everyday" or "Planets of the Universe", or the title track from "Say You Will" hit Billboard's Hot 100 Bubbling Under chart.

Thanks for your time,

Jim

Hi Jim,

According to Nielsen SoundScan, Fleetwood Mac's "Say You Will" has sold 733,000 copies in the U.S., while Stevie Nicks' "Trouble in Shangri-La" has moved 638,000. The latter was released in May 2001.

Neither "Everyday" nor "Planets Of The Universe" reached Billboard's Hot 100 Bubbling Under chart. However, "Everyday" reached No. 17 on the Adult Contemporary survey, while "Planets" became a big club hit, hitting No. 1 on the Hot Dance/Club Play chart.

"Say You Will" never reached the Bubbling Under chart either - though it also peaked at No. 17 on the Adult Contemporary chart.

embarrassing numbers, for both mac and stevie...:distress:

The numbers aren't into the millions like her first three albums were, within the first couple years of their release... but I don't think 638,000 copies sold in the US is embarrassing, when you consider Stevie's age, the average age of her core fanbase, and the fact that she's female (not trying to sound sexist, but with only a few exceptions, female artists always sell less than their male peers).

Stevie's doing better than her female peers (Pat Benatar, Heart, etc.), and she's even doing better (or least comparable) numbers to some of her male peers.
For example, Paul McCartney's 'Driving Rain' is "only" gold, and Tom Petty And The Heartbreakers' 'The Last DJ' hasn't even been certified gold yet.

As usual, sales figures are not necessarily indicitive of quality, but in a discussion of sales, I don't see how Stevie's numbers are anything less than impressive, when all factors are considered. :)

However, I would expect bigger numbers from Fleetwood Mac... especially considering the additional promotion they received, and the breadth of this tour.

As of this week, the album's actually scanned 739,575 copies.

This is NOT bad. That is NOT embarassing.

Let's use an example- how about Sting. Sting was about a thousand times more commercially viable when Brand New Day came out then Fleetwood Mac is today, simply based on the market. It took Sting nearly four months to hit 750,000 copies sold. It took him nearly five months to reach platinum status, and the last month of that includes when Desert Rose began to hit.

Fleetwood Mac, operating without a huge radio presence, is doing very well compared to similar bands... Steely Dan, considered a relatively large surprise in terms of their continued success, has only sold 140,000 more copies of their record after its 90K opening week three months ago. 140K in three months? 750K in five ain't bad. I know Steely Dan might seem like a stretch in comparison, but honestly- the record company was expecting them to perform no better than SD, and a lot of the public associate them as similar bands, similar stature. (sad but true)

With Grammy nominations coming up (and they will be) and the tour continuing to be successful, they'll pass platinum with change to spare. And platinum is NOT a bad thing.

If Fleetwood Mac really wanted a huge smash record, they wouldn't have released a record like Say You Will... they would've played it more safe and released a shorter, more radio friendly album. Instead, they decided to court success on their own terms- and if you look at it like that- they released a record that's relatively difficult for casual fans or new listeners to attach to because of it's length and "out there"ness- it's VERY successful for what it is.

Maybe their management could arrange for Mick and John to make out at the podium at this year's Grammy awards and then their record would sell a whole bunch more copies.:rolleyes:

I think those numbers are very good! I mean, think about it... Most people I know at least just download music from the web. That means that out of maybe 25% of the population that still buys CDs, 700,000 copies were sold. When you think of it like that, it is comparable to their older records. Because, back then non of this piracy was going on.

ok, so "embarressing" may be a bit harsh, but if you consider the number of people who attended their concerts this summer, you'll see that apparently many of them didn't even bother buying the album.
right, but then again, both Heart and Pat don't have a major label contract, or a worldwide release deal, both of them also records cheaply, in their releases you won't find this huge galleries of the finest professional musicians, nor will they ever dare to shelf recordings made with dallas austin in the process. true, but especially today, you have to measure in terms of it's financial success, profit and investment. you can sell 6 or 3 million and still lose money (if you're michael jackson or mariah carey)
i think Stink sells 70% of his records outside the states.

Weren't Fleetwood Mac the first band to have an album played on the radio in it's entirety, and a week before release or something like that? Who WOULDN'T have taped it and said screw buying it? Tusk cost more at the time of it's release then than it does now on CD. And I can't imagine that the majority of the Rumours fans would be excited to go out and buy it after they heard how off the wall Tusk was, especially considering the price.

Piracy has always been going on, it's just in a different format now, and it's always something different. Back in the 80s people thought home taping/trading was destroying the record industry, in the 90's and 00's it's music downloading. The RIAA always wants to blame somebody else besides themselves for poor sales of poor music.

Actually, I don't really think that's true. You figure FM has done 50 dates so far (I'm estimating, don't really know). So, if they average 10,000 people per show, that's 500,000 people. Plus, it seems MANY people see numerous shows. Then you have the families who go, for example my mother and father went with me (now that I've totally embarrassed myself by admitting that). And yes, there are a large number of people I'm sure who only went to the concert to see the hits. Still, it's hard to accurately say "many" of them didn't buy the album -- we can't be sure.

In hindsight, I think the album would have sold better if Christine were on it, and if she were on tour. Even though, imo, SYW is a much better album than BTM, there just seems to be this sort of jinx on FM that if all five members aren't present, the album just won't sell as well. And I'm not counting on the Grammies helping out FM...I was let down with TISL.

My answer:

TISL is an excellent Stevie Nicks record w/ videos. She hit all the talk shows, all the magazines and had tons of exposure. Remember when VH1 debuted her record on their website and the thing crashed within minutes?!

SYW is a so-so Fleetwood Mac record (at best) w/ no videos. Appearances on Leno and Today were embarassing, plus touring adds nothing to sales anymore, unless you're 20 years old waiting for a record to break. They created huge buzz before the record came out, but when people actually listened to it and word of mouth spread, many just dont like this record. Nuff said.

I wouldn't say that many don't like this album...but I could venture to say that for the most part it IS an album designed for the hardcore fans...which is fine by me...I think the band is at a point in their career where hell, they go out on the road play for thousands of fans...many of them are knowing the songs at the shows (more and more as the tour progresses) things ARE going good for them....and I like where this band is...

Chris

Not to me...
 

It's, IMO, a perfect record (sans Silver Girl's horrific lyrics), I love it!! Of course, I'm no Rumours-only fanatic. :rolleyes: Those people are stuck in a time warp or something. You know, I love music from when I was a kid too, but dang, I can move with the times also.

Do you know how many people tell me they aren't seeing the show because Christine is not in it and because they are older?

People have been fans of FM a long time. Many people don't want it changed and without Christine, its really changed. She added her own charm and that charm is totally missing. That feminine , light, britishness she had, and her light pretty songs. Thats totally gone and people miss that.

But they will hit a million, by Grammy time Im sure:)

I think if they were to release THROWN DOWN with an actual video...the album would come back up the charts...

Chris

I really don't understand why they wouldn't have just let Christine do the album and not the tour. I have read she was intrested in doing the cd with them, but she hated traveling. So, why did she have to do both? They are only playing a handful of new songs at the concerts. Would it have really been a big deal to teach a new pianist to do Christine's parts on the new songs?

She could have really added a lot to this cd and made it a hit. She had the most catchy songs and the ones people knew by heart! I know that I just became a fan during the dance and Christine was the one I was first amazed by. I loved her! She could have made this album a success!

LOL...NOW you're talking....just kidding...that sight might actually make people go to store and SELL BACK their cd's lol...

easy.
their current lineup is the new incarnation of the group, that's legit.
if this lineup was touring after an album featuring chris, it would have been considered a partial one, putting it's credibility in question.
if you consider 733,000 copies against the fact that they're the second most profitable live act this year, they probably earned from this album less than what they make for a single concert.
now, what do you think is the major and what's the minor effort, the album or the tour?

maybe if sheryl crow stayed out of it and let stevie write her own songs the sales would be better.

how did sheryl crow negatively affect steveie's writing?? its not like stevie is out singing a song like soak up the sun, on her black lace surfboard?! NOT THAT SOAK UP THE SUN IS BAD....

i just dont see how she has hindered her

UNLESS you are talking about silver girl.... oy....

????? Sheryl Crow didn't write any of Stevie's songs. What are you talking about? :shrug:

susieq :wavey:

Hmm... I guess I missed the part in the liner notes where it says Stevie's songs were co-written by Sheryl Crow. :confused:


If there's a "problem" in regards to 'Say You Will,' it's that all of the promotion came in the first week, and there haven't been any TV appearances since (except that short little VH1 special).

The tour is being promoted with radio contests, etc., but I haven't seen a single thing promoting the album in months.

A good friend of mine was talking to me about the album last night. Previously he's been more of a "casual" fan, but he has enjoyed 'Say You Will' far more than he expected to, and said that it's better than anything he would have imagined them releasing, this late in their career.
That's a pretty massive compliment, in my opinion.

And I still don't understand the "there's too much music" comments from various people. Why wouldn't you want more music for your money?
Are you happy buying a 42 minute CD? I'm certainly not.
Hell, I would have been happiest if the band had released the double-album they were teasing us with!

Sales will increase as soon as they get some TV- airplay doing new songs live in a concertsetting (next tuesday and wednesday?). And after people saw lindsey's PBS-recording.

And in Europe if they dare to bring out an oldfashioned (read recordstore-available) edgy single. No SYW/peacekeeper, but something like Miranda, RTTG,EFO or even Red Rover. Just to pierce some ears and show people that they are back with something ELSE. And play RTTG and Say Goodbye live in "Later" with Jools Holland next December.

i agree with the amount of music statement. i always feel ****ty when i buy a cd for 15 of 16 bucks and it only has 10 damn songs. i bought say you will for 9.99 at best buy and i definately got my money's worth. who cares if its longer than most cd's, skip the songs, dont complain about it. someday there wont be a new fleetwood mac album and those 18 track albums will be looking pretty good!;)

Does anyone know how sucessful the album is in Europe? Whenever I talk about SYW the reaction is pretty much the same:" Fleetwood Mac? They still exist?", so I guess Warner Brothers did a lousy job in promoting FM over here in germany. Nevertheless the album was quite sucessful, but I don't know the sales-figures.

SYW Is a good alnum. It is not a great album. True Christine would have been good on the record but we all know that the band didn't want another time where she records the album and then doesn't tour. It makes it pointless. You know people would jhave gone to the shows thinking she was on tour with the band and then when they got there they would have been upset to learn that it was four and not five. I like the new incarnation just fine.

I think SYW is a great album, not just a good album! The fact that it has a lot of extra songs on it is what actually does it. Usually on a regular album, I only really like about half of the songs. On SYW, I like about 2/3 of it which turns out to be a whole regular album. Not too shabby! All in all, I think not having Christine on board is a good thing. Lindsey and Stevie get to do more which is what it's all about. This current tour is much better without her. Lindsey can now do more of his songs live, and you have to agree that he is the major focal point, with energy to burn. I mean the guy's on fire! :laugh:

This is exactly the point of why it's "too long." If they would have just pulled those "weaker" songs, which around here seem to be (by majority, in no way unanimous) Silver Girl, Murrow, Red Rover, and maybe one more of the "weaker" songs, then it would have made a much better album cohesively. Personally I'm VERY happy we got all the songs on the cd that we did, but generally speaking it's too long for a casual listener to get all the way through, and with only the "better" songs on the album, it would have worked out better.

I see where you are coming from, Sorcerer, but we all have different songs on the album that we could do without. I happen to love "Murrow". That is actually one of my favorites. Lindsey really pulled out all the stops on that one. Beautifully done in my opinion. Silver Girl (it's boring to me), Illume(it tends to ramble), Red Rover (I don't get it), Smile at You (man, did Lindsey ever blow that one....see demo), perhaps Miranda and those two Goodbye songs (kinda too slow, but what are you going to do?) Other fans no doubt probably love the opposite of me. So as long as they can all fit on the CD, why not put them all on? I too was hoping for a double CD. Oh well, maybe next time. Fat chance!

There definetly should have been some concept videos, VH1 has always played FM and Stevie videos, but I did not see Peacekeeper once not even once on VH1 or anywhere else.

I believe that music videos help sell albums and a good one would have helped FM sell more albums, SYW is a great album.

I think that they waited too long to get back together and release it. Just think if maybe one year after "The Dance" they released this album it would have already sold a million easy. But they waited SIX years, now that is a long time and most people are already "over" the dance craze. Also missing Christine is a big hurt for album sales.

But album sales are not where it is all at, they are making tons of money from the tour, now that is where the money is at.

If I remember correctly Kelly Clarkson and 50 Cent beat out FM of the number one spot, so the people buying music have no taste anyways.

The concerts are full and that is what counts, there will probably be another album because of the sucess of this tour. And hopefully another Stevie solo album/tour, Lindsey solo album/tour too? probably wishful thinking... *crosses fingers*

Start saving up your emergency Mac money now for the next tour, $125+ ticketmaster charges ain't cheap... also the cd reissues. Hey that be kind of sad if the reissues sold more than SYW, I think that would be very sad. :laugh:

Indeed, the promotion for the new album has been paltry at best. You would have thunk that they would have capitalized on Stevie's renewed credibility in the hipster circles. For example, she had a number one dance hit (Planets of the Universe) and became the fashion muse for a number of designers going for that retro glam look. I'm not saying that FM should have recorded dance tracks, but a club-worthy white label remix of a track like "Everybody Finds Out" or even "Smile at You" would have provided some momentum. Attending a party here, a premiere there, a benefit, etc. would have gotten their names and pictures in the newspaper here and there. But FM remained staunchly in the shadows at a time when they should have been trying to raise their awareness level among the public. The fact remains that 90% of the public who has enjoyed FM music in the past does not know there is a new album out. Touring means practically nothing because at $149.50 a pop (hello, NYC!), this tour is not for the casual fan. And there are plenty of oldies acts that tour just for the sake of touring.

A promotional stunt that probably backfired big time was the streaming of the entire album on AOL and the Reprise website. Not only does this reduce the incentive for people to buy the album (i.e., why pay for something you can hear for free), people will make a hasty (negative) assessment about a dark, complex album that admittedly requires at least a few listens to fully absorb. And we all know how this stunt also backfired with Madonna's "American Life" stream on the MTV website. Granted, it's not her best album, but like SYW it was also an acquired taste.

Anyway, it is highly doubtful that FM will see a single dime in royalties from selling 750,000 copies of an album, especially when you consider the typical recording deal in which the artist (not the label) is responsible for paying for all recording costs and promotion.

murrow is my fav. lindsey song on the album by the way, I can't see how ppl could find it WEAK..but everyone has diff. tastes I suppose...I agree the problem is the promotion...the week before and the week of its release there was LOTS...and after, there was mainly NONE, on tv anyway...which is probly due to the fact they went on tour so quick after it came out....so that made for a strong first week debut...and lacking sales since..


Chris