Lindsey's not so great shows?
 

I'm wondering, since I've not heard EVERY SINGLE bootleg/show out there, what show or what songs stand out in particular where Lindsey was just totally off vocally or couldn't get it together? Are there any? BWAH!! ;) Even when he sounds kinda not good, I'm loving his voice and every scream, crack, garble is fun, IMO. I was listening to the Live 80 CD today and during NGBA, he kinda sighed, and that was just beautiful...some of the most simple things he does are spectacular. :)

I know that people are saying he needs to get vocal lessons, but I STRONGLY DISAGREE, because his guitar playing is unorthadox and unique...WHY can't his voice be also? Stevie is known for her unique voice, Lindsey should be too!! BTW, I think he sounds AMAZING this tour, he held those notes at the end of WTTCT for friggin EVER!!!

Not so Great...LINDSEY ??????
 

:wavey: Christy....We die-hards fans still Love and
Admire our Brilliant Lindsey no matter what!!!
When his voice is sorta' cracked /kinda' craggy
he wants it that way!!! Just Like His Hair style:cool:
It's HIS UNIQUE WAY! Lindsey Rules My Heart!:nod:

I love LB and do not mind the occasional cracking voice, but when he sings off key it just kills me because I know he can sing on key. Conversely, Stevie's voice is odd, but it pretty much always on key. In any event, I really like them both so who the hell cares I guess :laugh:

There are two renditions of Go Your Own Way that are painful for me to listen to...

One is Memphis '82...I think he'd literally smoked too many joints: he's just not with it and he sounds like he couldn't care less. Even when he's saying "Memphis we'd like to thank you for coming here tonight...etc etc".....he sounds....weird.

The other is Irvine Meadows '97....this time it's not drugs...it sounds more like severe tiredness. His vocals go off key several times, the first solo sounds "raw" and slightly "sloppy", and the final solo starts out ok but by the end of it he's just sliding up and down the neck over and over again....like he's run out of ideas or something.

Strangely those are the only two "bad" performances that come to mind....the rest are either great, or in absolutely amazing. In most cases it's the latter!

:wavey: :wavey: :wavey:

To my ears, he seemingly has trouble with the vowel sound Oooo or ewe. For example, when he sings "What's the Coming to" the "to" is sometimes flat. This is one of the harder sounds to make on key in a vocal. He has a good voice already, so he seemingly could correct this with a vocal lessons targeted at this "problem." But, who the hell am I to tell him what to do as he has thousands screaming for him to sing the way he is doing it now!!!!!!!! :laugh:

Yes, I know what you mean...In "You Do or You Don't" from OOTC, he says the "I" words funny:

You either run or you hide
Now you slip now you slide

He says them kinda flat...like nyahhhhh

It bothers me just a bit...

lol This thread is making me laugh for some reason. :) I guess the idea of a slovenly on-stage Lindsey or the slurry vocals he's layed down are pretty comedic ;) Hopefully we'll get an insight into how he and Stevie approach strange vocal tracks in the 'Making Of' DVD (whoops I almost typed 'Making Out' DVD - now that WOULD be something!!), and hopefully I'll get NO insight into his past sloppy stage work when he comes down under!! :laugh:

Gosh, it's EXTREMELY difficult to PLAY LEAD guitar AND SING LEAD perfectly simultaneously! Each can throw the other off. How many other LEAD guitarists can also SING lead perfectly while playing?

And L. Buckingham is jumping all over the stage while he's doing this! ! ! ! !!

I'm surprised Buck still has a voice at all, after literally SCREAMING his songs on stage night after night.

He's a damn good singer.

The genius especially sings sonically super on NEVER GOIN' BACK AGAIN, BIG LOVE and his power-ballad, I'M SO AFRAID. :nod:

.
.
I just went to go listen to that after you mentioned it, and unfortunutly YOU'RE RIGHT. It's AWFUL. His singing is like ahhh i don't want to be here. The chourusus are slightly better because the girl's harmonies are so good, and Stevie really steals GYOW:eek: But the wierd thing is it's only GYOW the rest of the Memphis show he does a really great job. Maybe you're right maybe because it was the end of the show all the joints got to him.

Yes - this is what I can't figure out. I lose my voice towards the end of a big night of justa party or karaoke or something. But Lindsey just keeps going and going while screaming with no abandon. ?? Does he have an extra long-lasting voice or do I have an extra short-lasting voice??

If used correctly and from the correct source (the diaphram), he sould be able to sing night after night without too many problems. My point is he does not sound as if he is doing that and that is not a great idea.

Also, many people can play an instrument and be on key. For example, Don Henley plays the drums and he rarely hits a bad note; same for Phil Collins. Chris played the piano and she most of her notes without flaw. Nancy Wilson of Heart. Bruce Springsteen (you cannot get more energetic playing or belting than the Boss! :laugh: ). Sting. Tina Turner (OK she does not play an instrument but she certainly is on fire during her concerts)

Note and again, I love LB and think he is great. I just cringe when I hear him, or any singer of that caliber for that matter, bend a harmony or go off key in a solo, when I know he can do better - I've seen him do it.

To me, its almost like he is a puppy that gotten so excited he forgets how to walk :laugh:

Vocal lessons and/or an ear piece should and/or could help that.

Which Ledgie wants to volunteer to be LB's vocal coach!!!!!!!!!!!! :laugh: :cool:

Most clear-voiced singers don't scream as much as Buck does on stage.

D. Henley gives himself a verrrry simple drum accompaniment while he sings live. I don't hear any drum rolls while he's lead vocalist. Same for Phil Collins. And Don Henley always sounds rough to me; even on CDs, even on ballads and even going way, way back. B. Springsteen's songs are non-melodic and he always sounds rough, too. Nancy Wilson doesn't sing LEAD that I know of while she performs a strainuous guitar lick. O.K. Christine McVie is Chirstine Perfect, but she was very sedentary on stage, didn't jump around to throw her off -- and was classically trained.

S. Nick's songs are getting less and less melodic, as she has changed the tunes on all her classics to make them easier to perform on stage. Even going way, way back to the Mirage concert DVD, on "Gypsy" she S. Nicks sounds like she's singing this number almost totally on one note. It's not melodic at all. It doesn't even sound like "Gypsy." But it works better for her. And she and Christine hardly performed any songs on that Mirage tour.

Beatle John Lennon would literally wreck his voice while screaming "Twist and Shout." He could only perform this song twice in a row, otherwise his voice would go. Crank it up and you can hear him coughing at the end of the song. This was when he was in his early 20s, even.

M. Fleetwood only chose Buck for a lead guitarist, and what a fantastic guitarist he is! Buck's singer-songwriter-producer combination was just an added bonus.

I still love L. Buckingham's singing.

This is my point in that it is possible to scream from the diaphram al la Tina Turner and Bruce Springsteen. In other words they do it on key night after night and I would hardly call Tina and Bruce's songs non-melodic - but that is my opinion :cool: Interestingly, Celine Dion, love her or hate her, belts with the same intensity as if not more powerfully than most people scream and she is always note perfect. Why? Because she sings from her diaphram. (Note: I do not care one way or the other about La Dion - I am just commenting on her voice).

Although I have not seen them in a long time, when I saw the Eagles in the late 70's, Don had a complete kit. I have also seen video of Hotel California where he is sitting behind and playing what appears to be a full kit.

I have seen Phil Collins solo and with Genesis behind what appeared to be a full drum kit while singing lead.

Sounding rough is not the same as singing or screaming off key. I have never heard Don or Bruce off key (although with Bruce it is hard to tell :laugh: ); same for Tina Turner. Another good example is Janis Joplin - a very rough voice, but always dead on in my opinion.

She sang an still sings a beautiful lead on "These Dreams," which, incidentally, was written by them to give to Stevie to sing. Also, Nancy Wilson's harmony lines are very complex and could almost be leads. Also, I think most singers would agree it is harder to sing harmony, esp. in rock and roll, than it is to sing lead, esp. while you are playing the guitar. Having said that, I think singing harmony to Ann Wilson would be a little less hard because she is never ever off key and hits every note at the proper time.

I am talking about LB, not Stevie. But, while Stevie has dropped the songs at least one octave and has slowed most of them a little so it is easier to sing, she still pretty much hits every note. Having said that, she has the strangest voice I have ever heard (and love). Sometimes even though it is on key, it just sounds like it is two or three voices at one time. Also, Stevie certainly can stray off key, although not nearly as often as befire she started voice therapy and lessons during The Dance tour.

Moreover, here is the Morage tour set list from the concert I saw. Stevie has five songs (not counting The Chain) and she sings harmony if not significant harmony on most of the rest. CM had six and also sang a bunch of harmony.

Second Hand News
The Chain
Don't Stop
Dreams
Oh Well
Rhiannon
Brown Eyes
Eyes of the World
Gypsy
Love in Store
Not That Funny
Never Going Back Again
Landslide
Tusk
Sara
Hold Me
You Make Loving Fun
I'm So Afraid
Go Your Own Way
Blue Letter
Sisters of the Moon
Songbird


I agree. I just wish he would take a few lessons and improve it. I am not in any way saying he is horrible or anything like that.

My Mirage DVD must be edited. I've only got:

The Chain
Gipsy*
Love in Store**
Not That Funny
You Make Loving Fun**
I'm So Afraid
Blue Letter
Rhiannon*
Tusk
Eyes of the World
Go Your Own Way
Sister of the Moon*
Song Bird**

Lindsey sings lead
*Stevie sings lead
** Chris sings lead

So here C. McVie and S. Nicks didn't have as many leads as Buck.

(Thought Christine's voice sounded raspy in this Mirage concert, btw)

As for D. Henley's drumming and P. Collins', I meant playing simply. They play just a couple of beats per measure, and no drum rolls or "flamboyant-fleetwood" stuff while they sing lead. Not enough movement to throw them off key, in other words.

I shouldn't have gotten on comparing men's voices to women, as women have a better overall range.

I still think L. Buckingham's melodies (they are beautiful!) cover a wide-range, unlike Springsteen, making them harder to sing, especially while Buck is running all over the stage like he does.

Nancy Wilson may be another story, but again for Tina Turner, Janis Joplin and Celine Dion, they shouldn't miss a note. Singing is their forte and they are not fabulous guitarists, ala Lindsey Buckingham.

Yes, the version of the Mirage show that made it to HBO (and thus VHS and DVD) is edited down from the actual whole setlist. Quite a shame really that they didn't show the whole deal.

Just a note: Technically speaking, I believe Stevie was completely off stage for about five of the songs in that full Mirage setlist: Never Going Back Again, Oh Well, I'm So Afraid, Songbird, and Not That Funny.

Wow, look what I started! LOL
 

LMAO!! I love the Ledge!! Discussion abounds!!

Okay, I see what you're saying, Strand, and I see what 4Buck is saying too....I agree there is the right way of singing (diaphragm) and a wrong way (throat), and even tho, Liddy Buck has been singing/screaming for over 30 years off and on, I think he STILL sounds amazing on this tour!! Sure, he didn't do ANYTHING from 1984 through 1991, and Stevie did, so her voice took a beating moreso, but still. I am in shock that either one of them can still sing the way they like to scream and sing the wrong way. LOL

BTW, Kelly Clarkson (American Idol) is a screamer/singer and during AI, she had one particular night where she was REALLY straining her voice, but she screamed right through and by gawsh, she won the dang contest.

Oh, my point? :laugh:

Yeah, people don't care sometimes if their fave singer can sing or sing correctly, it's not JUST about the voice....it's about their personality/aura too. I hate that word aura...but can't think of a synonym. :rolleyes: LOL

Yea, you're absolutely right. That's a very interesting point actually: I've NEVER heard a single GYOW where Stevie's voice on the harmonies is anything less than great. It's incredibly ironic that on almost every single version I've heard, her voice on the lines "...shackin' up's all you wanna do" and "another lonely daaaaaaaaaaay"....(i.e. the very last line of the entire song) is magnificent; it's like her voice is suited PERFECTLY for those lines. The Memphis '82 version is a perfect example of this.

:wavey: :wavey: :wavey:

I think Stevie's harmony adds a bunch to this already great song as well. Interestingly, here is Stevie's quote from a 1980 Rolling Stone interview on GYOW:

In an hour or so, things are edgy again. New material isn't working out. Serious drinking is under way. Stevie Nicks comes over during a short break. "That song!" She is talking about "Go Your Own Way," Buckingham's song.

"The harmony part is too high and I have to hurt and strain every time I sing it." She is upset, a little tipsy. She leans forward and whispers something to me in a voice that seems too silly to be serious. "Now, I want you to know---that line about 'shacking up'? I never shacked up with anybody when I was with him! People will hear the song and think that! I was the one who broke up with him." She smiles conspiratorially. "All he wanted to do was fall asleep with that guitar." Stevie drifts away to a far corner of the hall to talk to Sharon [Celani - her wardrobe mistressess] and some other friends.

______________________________________________

How cool is it that she now sounds great and seems to like singing the song, etc.

Lindsey tends to strain when he sings live. He is not a natural live singer, in my opinion. I suspect he practices and practices until he gets it right for tape.

Does it matter? Yes, to some extent. You want to hear people singing in key. A lot of people may not recognize that a singer is off key necessarily, but they will recognize that something doesn't sound right.

Then again, it only matters so much. In the Today show performance, when Lindsey was blowing the vocals on Peacekeeper and Go Your Own Way, that's not what bothered me. What bothered me was the lackluster performance overall. In the Dance video, he is definitely straining when he's singing Tusk but damn, he puts so much into it that you just overlook the strained vocals. People respond on an emotional level.

Lindsey puts a lot of emotion and energy into performing. That's why he connects, even if his vocals are a little off. Lastly, I would point out that playing rhythm guitar and singing is far easier than playing lead and singing. This is why most guitar-playing singers do the rhythm while someone else plays lead. Even people who play lead, like B.B. King, are often alternating between playing and singing. When you think of the many functions that go on when you play and sing, it's actually pretty staggering that it can be accomplished.

My two cents
 

This is a great thread, good debate back-and-forth... let me just preface my comments by saying LB is my favorite singer on the planet. He's the only artist who I can sit and listen to for hours on end and not get sick of his voice. I agree that he can sound slightly coarse and craggy at times when performing live (although he sounded great last month in MN!), and that he does have difficulty with certain vowel sounds, but I think there are simple explanations for this.
He and Stevie have very similar styles of singing, which makes for that amazing sound we all know and love when their two voices join together. However, their styles also lead to problems when their voices are overused. You are supposed to use your diaphragm, as strandinthewind pointed out earlier, and neither LB or SN does this. They both seem to sing from their throats or heads. This led to Stevie's voice dropping a register from overuse after the Rumours tour and Lindsey's getting lower over the years as well.
They also have nasally voices, and as someone who has a nasally voice himself, I can tell you that this leads to problems with certain vowel sounds. They just come out sounding a little weird and off. And as someone who plays guitar and sings, I know it can be difficult sometimes to stay completely on key all the time while playing. I'm sure Lindsey can't always hear his own voice when he's playing, and that might cause him to drift around the scale a bit.
When it comes right down to it, LB was never trained in anything, so the fact that he is as great a singer and guitarist as he is is simply amazing. And I'll gladly put up with a few off key performances just to experience the raw emotion and power he brings to a stage.

I can listen to Lindsey Buckingham's voice for hours and hours and hours... I LOVE IT!

God, that FM Anaheim concert the other night.....broadcast live on the radio:

.......his voice on I'M SO AFRAID is like it's ascending a mountain....it builds and builds, then climaxes .....Awesome!

......NEVER GOIN' BACK AGAIN.......... His vocal is lovely on this.....and his phrasing - whoa!...as he drops glistening notes from his Rick Turner....

The acoustic BIG LOVE.....oooooh! aaaahhhh!... intense, passionate vocal........intricate melody he sings brilliantly.....

SECOND HAND NEWS ....."Do it! DO it! DO IT!" God, I love it when he shouts that!.... Shakes the arena....

SAY GOODBYE........... A great soundtrack for a romance....he sings this so beautifully, too.....so softly.......highlighted here by he and Nicks gazing into each other's eyes.... :)

Earlier on this thread, I posted something about "You Do or You Don't"--that wasn't the song I meant! The song where Lindsey sings funny vowels is "Turn It On."

He sings SKY WHY CRY DIE TRY like "skhhiiiiiiii" but sings it with his mouth shaped like an O (Can you tell I sing?)d

And then "turn in on" he sings it--ooohhhhhooooonnnn

Now, someone has left you alone
Somehow you will carry on
You are the man
Do what you can
Just go out and turn it on

You can fight, you can pray, you can reach for the sky
You can heal someone’s soul, you don’t even know why
Turn it on

Now, someone is dead and gone
The hurt that you feel makes you strong
Time is allowed
Make him proud
Just go out and turn it on

You can love, you can hate, you can laugh, you can cry
You can run for your life, you can live, you can die
Turn it on

You can hurt, you can heal, you can reach for the light
You could trust in yourself if you’d give it a try
Turn it on

RCB, great points. Just last night I did three numbers at an open mic. I left kicking myself because I only started pulling my voice out of my diaphragm on the third song. Not coincidentally, that's when most people started paying attention. Singing well is so hard to do unless you're a natural singer.

The thing about the vowels is that you have to shape your lips and position your tongue in a certain way for each vowel. Some of us can only hit certain notes on some vowel sounds. So you actually have to change the vowel sound to hit the note. So an O may become something like a cross between an O and an U.

Lindsey seems to throw in some H sounds on his I sounds. "Like hi always do..." Maybe it has to do with his breathing while singing.

Singing is hard work.

Oh to have been a fly on the wall at that open mic sessions!!!! :cool: What did you sing, if you do not mind "a tellin ?"

I too love to sing from the throat/nose. It seemingly is easier in that it requires less attention; but at the ripe old age of 36, my voice has enough of that after about an hour, esp. singing rock and roll. :laugh: Conversely, if I start from the diaphragm, I can go on and on, usually to the chagrin of my friends, for days!!!!!!!! :laugh: I never really have trouble with vowels, which most (if not all) tunes are carried on, until I try doing the voice inflection thingee while carrying a note al la when La Nicks sings live at the end of Sara "all I ever wanted was to know that you were dreaming SAARRAAAAA AAA AAA AAA AAA AAAAAA

(It won't let me show that the first three "AAA" are one one higher each, and then they go down a third or so to the last one. )

Strand, I did all originals. The only cover I've played in public was Take the Skinheads Bowling, a Camper Van Beethoven tune. One of these days, though, I'm going to break into Save Me a Place. Now that I've practiced playing the song in four different keys, I just have to decide which works best for me.

Dude, I thought you were older! Must be all that wisdom. And here I was trying to be respectful and all. Turns out we're contemporaries.

Contemporaries it is!!!! Thank you for the compliment and also great minds of the same age must think, well, sort of alike !!!!!!!! :laugh:

Also, I love "Save Me a Place!!!!" I think the LB arranged the harmonies to his passionate lead on that just incredibly. In fact, I often think I hear him not only in the lead, but perhaps in a higher and lower harmony along with CM and La Nicks.

Heh.
 

LMAO!!! When I first got OOTC and listened to it, and that song came on, I went "What the?" His voice on that song is SO wierd!! LOL The way he says ON.....it's insane!! :laugh: He's kinda yodeling the word. BWAH!!

Yes...very much so. What do you think are the greatest examples of this? IMO...his greatest two moments of live guitaring happen on songs that he has to play lead and sing at the same time: NGBA and Big Love. Songs like ISA and Come (where the lead guitar and vocals happen at different times) are great....but nowhere near as impressive.....neither vocally nor guitar-wise.

By the way, do you (or anyone else!) know what the technical term (if there even is one!) is for that thing Lindsey does with his voice in almost every single live song: where he sings a part, then there's a split second pause (so short it's not even really a gap) and the voice "breaks" into the higher octave?

E.g On Go Insane '97: When he sings "So I go, i-innn...sa-(h)ANE"....the final part of the word "insane" (which I've written in capital letters) is sung much higher. He does this so naturally with so MANY songs live. It's very "country" sounding. A really amazing example of this happens at about 2:10 on the mp3 of Say Goodbye at the Columbus show, when he sings "when the lies come around"....it happens right at the beginning of the word "when."

I hope that all made some sense!

:wavey: :wavey: :wavey:

Howdeeee!!!!
 

I was just about to say, before I read that last paragraph...

That's kuntry sangin'!! *she says as she chews on her piece of wheat* :laugh: I don't know the term for it tho....like you said, if there IS one.

WHAT??????

You really amaze me, Carne!!! One of my favorite tunes back in the early nineties, when I was a DJ in a rockclub overhere! The reason why I'm into cracker in the first place.

I think i speak for strand, too, if I ask you to post an MP3 of you singing.... Would he dare??????????????????????????????:laugh: :wavey:


Hahaha my 100th post is about Take the Skinheads bowling, Take them bowling!!! who would have thought of that!

While Big Love live is something great to behold, I prefer almost as much NGBA on this tour because it is just so incredibly emotional to see them sing it together. (Note: as always this list of favorites changed daily if not hourly! :laugh: ).

I would love brother Carne to post an MP3, but will not dare ask because I would have to then post one of mine - perhaps the one where I am vainly attempting to sing "Nessun Dorma" from Puccini's "Turandot" when without any overt attempt, I dropped from tenor to somewhere below it.. Now where is that MP3!!!!!!! :cool:

Gerald, perhaps I'll throw something into that package I'm working on for you. Strand, I could e-mail you a file or two. But I'll warn you both: I have a long way to go. And each one of my recordings has a flaw or two: a missed beat here, an off key vocal there. So don't expect perfection. Strand, I'd love to hear one of yours. That would be cool.

Those would be my examples too. I Would throw in Go Insane as as well.

I honestly have no clue where the ones I still have left are as that was awhile back. I will look. If I find one, I'll send it. OR . . . I could always haul myself back into a studio and do one :laugh: Actually, my new computer has a mic, so maybe I could save a wad of cash and sing into my P.C.!!!!!! :laugh:

Strand, don't go into a studio. If you have a mic, pick up yourself a copy of Cool Edit. You can download it at Syntrillium.com. It's all you need. That's what I use to convert my audio files from my 4-track to digital. I also use it to edit, mix and create MP3s.

I will check those out - Thanks!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Studios are cool, but expensive. I was actually lucky because a friend of mine manages one in Florida and I got some after hours time for free awhile back. The computer, however, is a much better way to go with this hobby!!!!!!!!!

Melbourne 80
 

This goes back to answer the original question - I'm afraid I'm not qualified to join the other discussion!

The worst vocal I have ever heard from Lindsey is Melbourne 1980. He was VERY VERY drunk, or high, or both, and he was mean, too. I was going to post the show on my site but it's so wretched I'm embarrassed for him, so I'm unsure if I should do it! The most egregious example is World Turning: he doesn't sing half of what he should, and when he does finally join in he doesn't actually sing it, but half-says it in this mocking tone of voice "Everybody's got me down [crazy laugh]" - oh man, it's cringe-worthy, and it's like that throughout. :: Shudder ::

Nessun Dorma is one of my very favorites. I would loove to hear this! C'mon post it!:)

Re: Melbourne 80
 

Interestingly, I have a recording of Sara from that show (at least it is labeled from that show) that is fantastic. In this version the reverb (echo) is set on the highest setting and Stevie sings the absent "no sorrow for Sara - you can have no more" AND her ending chants are too die for in range. LB introduces the song and sounds okay (no slurring, etc :laugh: ). I guess this just goes to show you that FM is truly more than the sum of its parts in that when one is weaker one night (and it happens to them all), the others somehow make up for it, etc.

Nancy - re: posting Melbourne 80 - go for it! If not all of it, then maybe just that Sara. I had no idea she ever did the 'no sorrow..' etc parts live.