Cosar, what happened to your thread?
 

Anybody know what happened to the thread started by Cosar?

Sorry guys...I gotta come clean. I know I said I wasn't going there...but I did just go to Mick's board. I had to see if I could find out why Cosar's thread is gone, and also see who's saying Pip and Louise are lying about the JT email. Not many are jumping up to agree or disagree with the poster, so I feel nobody really believes it. Whether they say it or not, people know which party has a reason to lie. Louise has no reason to lie. As far as what happened to the thread started here about fans getting along...I didn't see anything about it there.

I also read the concerns threads, and this is the last thing I'm posting on the subject of fans getting along. Now that the original thread has disappeared, I wonder what's up with fans wanting to come here and start issues so they can complain and have them deleted later? I feel foolish now for saying this board doesn't censor people. Anybody know why it's gone?

After checking a few posts at Mick's I see fans ARE still trying to get answers there. The threads are going nowhere, but bravo to those guys for trying. I think there are some sincere people still there...why?...anyway, for whatever reason...some have made me think they may be right about one thing...complaining about the fan club may never result in any significant changes. It's a tough pill to swallow, but it's more likely than not. I don't mind saying they're probably right.

Guess what? One other thing is probably true as well. If any significant changes take place regarding the fan club, nobody there will ever thank the fans who kept the issue alive. Nobody will admit any of the "negativity had anything to do with it. Just like nobody said anything about the loud complaints bringing down the original price of the fan club. A lot of people told the complainers to keep quiet and be glad to pay whatever. I'm ok with it and even if nothing ever changes...I'm still going to speak out , maybe not as often, but whenever it's necessary.

Glitter,

I don’t want you or anyone else here to think this board censors people. To paraphrase the opening of a song I know you’re familiar with, “I took my thread, I took it down.” It was causing too much heartache, for me and, it seemed, for everyone else. It was making me too sad.

I have noticed in the short time I’ve been here that a lot of people just avoid the contentious threads and only post in the ones that deal with Fleetwood Mac’s music, concerts, etc. I think I’ve learned my lesson, and I plan to follow their lead.

I can see removing your own posts...but deleting the thread? Aren't you being the censor now? It's seems like a waste of time posting to anything if the one who starts the thread can delete everyone else's posts.

Well, if it makes you feel better...whatever. I used to think you were above such things, but it seems Cour was right on target in her assessment...which is gone now.

:shrug:

I'm not really sure (though I have seen) what happened in terms of the lying bit. The whole thread was really supposed to be more of a list...okay, so this is a concern, as is this.

However, the thread wasn't set up for opinions. We were concerned with how money was spent--there really was no need to begin accusing the Admins right away but someone jumped in and began defending them, and then I think...yeah, someone new jumped in just to say they were new which kind of screwed it up a little.

Just to be fair, I think that's the reason you may not see defense on Pip & Louise's part. It's not that there isn't one (and I really don't understand why it was brought up in the first place) but that it will start a nice debate/argument between fans and you know...that's just a waste of time, and will destroy the thread.

hey cosar, let me get this straight, did you just delete the "don't turn FM fans against each other" thread????
YOU MUST BE ASHAMED OF YOURSELF!!!!!
this is NOT how things go around here!!!!
you did not erase your own opinions there, you erased everyone who posted their opinions! once others replied, this thread is no longer YOURS, can't you see it???
i find it shameless and disgraceful!
i do not give a rat's ass if it made you "too sad", i don't care about how much of a coward you are! deleting MY valid opinions doesn't make ME sad- it makes me PISSED!!!, VERY PISSED!!!
you just damaged MY right for free speech and no excuses could justify it. these methods DO NOT belong here, this is NOT mick's chat! this is NOT our way to deal with stuff!!!
if you can't handle the heat, you probably don't belong to this kitchen! you owe an appology to each and every person who's opinion you just silenced, and if that's how you think we address serious questions here than you are terribly wrong!!!!
http://www.absolutepostcards.com/cards/cool/pissed.gif

Important things don't fade away, they just disappear.

Whatever the heck I mean by that ;)

John

I have not commented on this much .But as soon as I saw Mick's FM site had a pay fan club I had to laugh.Now some of the newer fans who bought into it I can sympathize with, but anyone who has closely followed this band and it's core members activities for years or decades,and who paid more than a wooden nickel to this 'fan" club shame on you !

As Cosar started the thread in removing his post the whole thread disappears. Not really sure why this was necessary. I was working a night shift so I can't read the reply I was notified about!

Pip

Cosar deleted it. The Ledge didn't. He couldn't take it is my guess...poor baby.

I have to say I agree with this sentiment. It is not the way things are done here. Many people had posted valued opinions in that thread and it is now gone. I'm sure various people have saved the thread ... I did not. I didn't think I would ever need to cut and paste a thread on the ledge. :(

Just remember that he was called out and also that his true colors are flying. He belongs where the truth is not and where thoughts and opinions are not welcome. So, to all of you who care, remember him and how he operates when he starts a new thread. He is on my ignore list. See Ya Cosaren't:wavey:

Well I have to say it SERIOUSLY PISSES ME OFF that someone would suggest that Louise and I are lying about the emails from Todd. Let's see them come over here and say that. Why on earth would we make this up? We are not the devious snakes in all of this. Excuse my language but I have had no sleep and I am ****ing steaming at the moment

Why should it not be brought up? I know you were looking for concerns involving the fan club - well Todd is the fan club and the mis-sent emails and bribes shows the kind of man he is. Is this the man people want to look up to as the leader of their favourite bands fan club? He should be held accountable for his actions. As Fleetwood Mac fans we deserve better. I've never said that I have anything against people who post over there but those who choose to ignore how this idiot has treated their fellow fans are certainly not on my Xmas card list!

As for the reason that people aren't defending this.... well those that would have all been banned!

Seriously pisses me off too Pip. The really rotten thing is that we cannot tell them how we feel about that over there, but, they need to know that they are only making things much much worse. Things like that only make my resolve stronger and my drive stronger to get something from someone.

I'm not picking on you Flyfirefly but things are coming into my head in response to your post. ;)

If I were to go over to Mick's board right now and post what happened to the UK fan convention team at the hands of Todd it wouldn't be to start a debate or an argument. It would simply be to show Todd for what he is and to say is this the man you really want looking out for the interests of your all time favourite band. If people want to ignore it then that is up to them. I have made a fair few friends online through my love of Fleetwood Mac and I think I am fairly well known. I would NEVER treat another fan the way Todd is.

As I said before.... I'd like to see them come over here and post that. But no... it is easier to post over there to try to further lower the credibility of those of us who dare to 'speak out'

Pip

OH NO!! pleeeez don't write stuff like that! you might "cause him heartache" or "make him sad" (which we now all know is inapropriate) quick!!! edit your post before he sees it!:distress: :distress: :distress:

OMG...what was I thinking? Oh, but, listen, seriously, this will give him something to bash us about "over there" and save him some time, so, that will be a good trade off for him-whine,bash,whine,bash..Have at it dude...:eek:

I hope everyone had the VIOLIN music turned way up when they read this little tale of woe.


This 'man' comes over to this board on a witch hunt, that he 'thinks' he's disguised well enough to look like a peace mission, but he fooled no one because people saw his post for exactly what it was. He attacks members of this board, all the while defending and pleading the case of his friends Jackie and Trinity and how they've been so misunderstood. _ He stirs the pot here with his "contentious thread" and his nasty habit of deleting and editing his attacks.


Now he's saying that some people here "avoid the contentious threads" and he'll be doing the same. Of course he wouldn't bother to mention that HE was the one that started the "contentious thread". No no no...you wouldn't want to do that and take responsibility for what part your own actions and words played, when you can just hit the erase and delete button and THINK you've washed away everything that has gone on. Does this remind anyone of a certain 'Black Knight' and his tactics, and what started this whole mess in the Fleetwood Mac community?


Back to the story.... This does sounds exactly the way he relayed his tale of woe over on Mick's board, conveniently leaving out pesky details like he might have started things off on the wrong foot here by attacking members of this board and maybe the "contentious thread" would have gone differently if he would have been a lot less contentious and not tried to turn a whole community against some of it's members. Of course, this was all disguesed as a PEACE mission.


SO, let me see if I've got the story right..


Attack, EDIT out the attack and apologize

Attack again. EDIT it out (again) and leave the thread asking that everyone stop posting to your "contentious thread"

Attack again, this time on another board where the people you're attacking can't defend themselves

Attack again when someone responds to the attack on the board where they can post, then DELETE this latest attack (again!)

Attack again!, all the while claiming how you've been so misunderstood and you're really a "pretty smart guy" but you're now leaving the thread for good (again!).


DELETE the entire thread because people are now onto your DELETE AND EDIT tactics and you can't get rid of the quotes AND the posts where people have archived your attacks and there is no other way to hide what you've done. Make sure to paint yourself as sad, and a good guy (who always acts within the "boundaries of civility") so you're only going to join the happy posts on this message board.


DON'T try to be honest from the beginning and come to this community and say you'd like to join the board, period. Instead, try to disguise your real intentions that you'd like to HEDGE your bets because the site you've aligned yourself with has become boring and is dying a slow and painful death. Make sure to stir the pot but good with a "contentious thread", and then paint yourself as a sad, misunderstood, but "pretty smart guy".

Wouldn't this 'pretty smart guy' be shocked to learn that the entire thread has been permanently saved.



_________________________________

Pip,


I'm sorry that people are saying you and Louise falsified those emails and are insinuating that you and Louise would lie about the emails and phone calls.

It's sad that when LIE AFTER LIE from Jonathan Todd has been revealed people refuse to see what is right before their eyes and instead choose to attack the messenger. I know this is little consolation to you but that has been the M.O. from the beginning. Ignore what the person is saying and focus on why they're saying it. Attack and slander the messenger and divert and cast doubt on anything they might be saying that's true.

They're still bashing and banning and deleting over there. The administrators are still ignoring the people who are doing the bashing because they're the long time members and they can abuse and mistreat anyone they like. Those special people don't have to act in a "civil" manner and their posts remain and they are not banned. Let's face it, at this point they can't afford to lose anymore people in that ghost town.

I hope you and Louise KNOW that the MAJORITY of the online Fleetwood Mac community believes you and Louise and supports and applauds your efforts to bring this to everyone's attention.

Try not to let a few ignorant spineless people get you guys down.


Remember who your friends are and we'll be here for you when they are long gone.


edited for spacing.

________________________________

Tommer, I saw your post last night that wouldn't it be ironic if this now DELETED thread were to be locked by the administrators here.


The last thread that was locked on the Ledge was a thread where a certain "Doctor" came over from Mick's board and decided to disrupt this board and threw that thread way off track hurling attacks and insults at the people who post here. Deja vu.

Marty told me that was the first thread to be locked in so long he couldn't remember the last time it had happened.

You're right, this is not the way things go around here.

_______________________________

Perhaps Marty's memory is not as good as mine, but I remember a handful of threads locked not long ago.

Thanks for that. I have made some great frineds online and I will pay no attention to the ignorant ones. Sleep deprivation makes me crazy sometimes hence the reaction this morning. I have no regrets about going public with this

Pip

I am not going to spend a lot of time debating whether what I did was right. What I did is done, and can’t be undone.

I began posting on Mick’s board because I love and care about Fleetwood Mac. I came over here to try to say that we are all Fleetwood Mac fans and that there is more that unites us than divides us. I may have been wrong about that. Maybe East really is East and West really is West.

In any event, I now find myself in the middle of a war that I have no interest being in the middle of. I understand that I put myself there, and I’m not blaming anyone else. But it may be time for me to declare defeat and withdraw.

When I logged on this morning after reading this thread, I had intended just to remove my registration from this board. But (1) I couldn’t figure out how to do it and (2) when I went to my profile page I found a couple of private messages from people I respect asking me not to leave. So I’m going to keep my registration for now and just stop posting for a while until I can decide what I want to do.

In the meantime, I wish you all well. :)

Perhaps it's not:)

I think it happens very infrequently on this board considering the volume of posts and topics, and the diverse opinions being expressed by the members.

You know, I cannot understand this..hmm...seems to me when I have a pm, I get an immediate notice that requires that I respond if I want to read the PM now or not...I have NEVER stumbled onto one that way. :confused: :rolleyes:

Well, after a night's sleep, I think I'm clear on my own position about this thing. I think that Cosar was wrong to do what he did. Now, I'm not here to attack you Cosar. I think you were acting under the belief that the thread was yours to do with as you pleased while the concensus on this board is that once people start participating in your thread it is no longer yours, but shared by everyone on the board. This is pretty much an unspoken understanding that apparently you did not pick up on (perhaps due to the example set on the MF board--and I don't mean m***** f*****, I mean Mick Fleetwood );) Let's all let Cosar have this one and write it off as a newbie's mistake. But please let's not have this kind of transgression happen again by the hands of anyone who was here when it happened.

John

I am not going to engage in a volley over this one, but just to clarify: I was involved in at least four threads that I can remember were locked in the August-October time frame. That is fact.

Cosar, your intention was good. Don't let the reaction of some to discourage you from continuing to participate.

THIS IS NEITHER AN APOLOGY NOR AN EXPLANATION, AT LEAST NOT IN MY BOOK.
TRY AGAIN!!!

Nice try Cosar. This explains absolutely nothing. You say you began posting at Mick's Chat because you love FM. Good for you. That goes for me too. Yet, you say little or nothing about the double standards and hypocrisy at Mick's board, you defend people who've been exposed as self-serving parasites responsible for bringing down the band's image and dividing the fans, then you come here trying to "make peace" by attacking people who get nothing but grief (from fans like you) for working to expose the dirt surrounding the "official" Fleetwood Mac operations. How can you imply you're surprised and grief-stricken seeing there's a reason for fans to be devided? We've said so all along. You post in words of a peacemaker, while taking actions of a partisan. How do you expect people to react?

What you haven't done...in any post on this thread or in the old one you deleted...is explain WHY YOU CONTINUE TO SUPPORT MICK'S CHAT & THE PEOPLE WHO OPERATE IT --AFTER KNOWING ABOUT THE WRONGS DONE TO FANS IN THE NAME OF FLEETWOOD MAC.

You say you WERE going to remove your registration from this board. Why? This board is not under a cloud like the other one is. Are you that thin skinned you can't handle some pointed discourse? Despite our disagreements in posts about Mick's Chat & the Fan Club, I'm not glad to read you want to leave for good. However, I repeat myself again...I fail to understand why you aren't considering leaving Mick's board? Hasn't anything about the whole controversy ever given you pause to think, leaving that board instead, is more appropriate and less questionable regarding your true motives, than coming here and doing what you've done the past few days?

Lurking at any board is no big deal. I can see wanting to lurk at Mick's site incase anything new is posted there first (Bwaaahaaa!) Staying there and being an active poster, giving the site a legitimacy it doesn't deserve, and continuing to cozy up to those with an idea that Mick, or anyone else in the band, actually reads what people say and approve of it all...that's another story. Yes, all the while never saying you agree Pip and Louise were wrongly defamed, then implying some of us here are being unfair to Jackie and Trinity...fans who've acted in blatant self-interest...none of it makes any sense. Where do you really stand?

The only thing that makes sense, unless you set the record straight yourself, is that others were NOT wrong in assuming your motives were questionable in light of your behavior. It may be correct to assume you've chosen to line up firmly on the other side. Perhaps your "claim" you care about fans getting along is completely insincere? Maybe some believe it makes issues appear less cut & dry as to what really happend if you post the way you have of late. Is this your purpose...presenting an image that some fans don't know which way to turn, or you feel it's not that clear who's right about issues surrounding the whole controversy? Explain yourself and I think there's no reason for you to feel under attack by fans on this board.

Saying you admit defeat means nothing. Defeat about what? Everything we've tried to discuss about the double-standards, hypocrisy, lies, cheating, pay-offs, and overall dirty dealings being played out about the fan club on Mick's board? OR defeat about being exposed as a double dealing hypocrite who wants to play it both ways and expect people not to call your actions and motives into question?

I believe I've tried, more than some of us "troublemakers," to be hospitable to you, and to let you know I'm not against you presenting a different point of view. I'm still not against you posting here, either. However, it's ridiculous not to see that nothing will ever be settled, or that your views will never be taken seriously, as long as you refuse to fully explain your conduct here and at Mick's board.

(edited for typos only)

You get an "immediate notice" because you set it up that way. Not everyone has. I didn't know PMs existed for months until I accidentally stumbled on them.

If you start a thread and no one posts a response, I feel you should be able to delete it.

If someone starts a thread, and you post a reply and want to delete it, I feel you should be able to delete it.

***HOWEVER***

If you start a thread and others post a response, and you then delete that thread (and hence deleting their posts), that functionability should NOT be allowed to general users.

Why?

CENSORSHIP!

:distress:
WHATS THE WORLD COMING TO?

PS - same here, I didnt realize for a while there was PM.

Geez... just when I was trying to bring PEACE to the "fan" thread... :distress: :distress: :distress:

What happens when that feature is turned off? Does the person sending a PM get notified you don't accept PM's?

Not accepting PMs is a different option, which you may also choose. I believe what we were referring to is the pop-up window that appears when someone sends you a PM. You may choose not to have that pop-up window. You may also choose to have the Ledge notify you by e-mail when you get a PM.

I still want to know what happens when someone sends a PM and the party does not accept it. Dose the sender get a message, or what? If anyone knows...

Ahhh....I signed up so long ago that I didn't realize that. I did know that you would get a message if someone is not allowing pms, or maybe that was at Micks site, but, whatever.

About the Pip/Louise thing...unless one of you specifically came to the board to press that as a concern, it's called hearsay.