21 years of wasted time
Hope this is in the right forum. As it's pretty critical of activities from 1997 until recent developments I'd like to think so.
So here we are again. Once again a certain guitarist ahs left Fleetwood Mac under a cloud. Once again Mick (presumably) is saying that the band has always been about the variety that different musicians bring. It's like 1988-90 all over again. I was like a kid on Christmas Day when Behind the Mask came out and was gutted when I heard that the line-up had collapsed a few months later. Then five years of not quite knowing who was in or out (a photo without Billy, a World Cup gig without Chris) before the rather insubstantial Time album hit the shelves. Then woo-hoo Rumours line-up reformed and happy days are here again. Then Chris quits. Then Say You Will - which to my mind is second only to BTM in terms of their post-Rumours output. Then Lindsey wants to do two solo albums, one acoustic one electric (fair enough, get that off his bucket list). Then Stevie won't make an album without another woman in the band (and Lindsey vetoes the Sheryl Crow idea). Then a pointless tour with neither Chris nor new material to make me want to part with cash. Then Stevie wants to make an album with Dave Stewart and Mick, who plays drums on most of it, expresses his frustration (and Lindsey has no choice but to cut Seeds We Sow). Then a glorified EP which was 75% Lindsey and one track of which only featured him. Then woo-hoo Chris is back and happy days are here again... again! Then Stevie says she's already committed to recording her 24 Karat project. Then a tour which basically just proves there'd be too many classics in the set to fit anything new in even if they'd recorded any. Then what was meant to be the new album gets credited to Buckingham McVie cos Stevie didn't want to do it even with Chris back in the band. And now they finally give Lindsey the boot and get two other guys in (one of whom happens to be one of my favourite songwriters). All this really proves is that for the most part, reforming the Rumours line-up, and certainly trying to keep the band going as a creative unit with both Buckingham AND Nicks present was little more than A COLOSSAL WASTE OF TIME!!!!! And now they're all in their seventies apart from the new boys so it's probably not reasonable to expect anything new. Deep Purple had their post-reunion dramas too but at least they could usually supply us with an album every three years or so and could work out when two people just weren't going to be able to work together anymore. |
Exactly! I’m so disappointed at this point, the only thing Mac-related I’m ever going to buy again are the tell-all’s and maybe not even all of those, because I’ve read almost all of them so far and it’s like everything else, nothing has felt truly new for way too long. I’m burnt out. It’s too much ridiculous drama.
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I agree about everything related to new material and studio albums. However I'm not sure about them "trying to keep the band going as a creative unit". Really? I don't find any evidence or clue about it. That EP was kind a casual product, not a true effort, my feeling. The main motivation of Fleetwood Mac are the tours, since several years.
But about the tours, well I saw them twice this last decade. The "part with cash" argument would be far more true for me, since I live in Peru and had to travel to see them. But I took advantage of a business trip to see them during the Unleashed tour, cause I wouldn't travel specially to see them if Chris wasn't there, I did enjoyed the show. As I also enjoyed the OWTS gig in 2014, with the 5 members. A dream came true when Chris was on stage again. And that was a trip just to see them. And I always check the setlist before buying a concert ticket, so I know what I am paying for. And since I enjoyed both concerts, it wasn't a waste of time to me. Not my time at least ;) |
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i cannot agree more with your assessment that the time from 1997 reunion on was completely wasted. they made tons of money, but creatively it was unbelievable waste. Lindsey was not even 50 yet, then. now he's 70. he should have quit once Christine did and never go back unless he had a firm, contractually signed commitment that they'll record / tour a new album within certain time frame. we could have had so much new music from him. people keep wanting the classic 5 to reunite. i really hope that never happens - except maybe a one-off show or 2. but not an album and not a tour. both things are a waste of time as the last 23 years has shown us. people who cannot learn from history will keep repeating it. i really hope Lindsey has finally learned - these people are not worth his wasting the time of new beginnings. he kept trying and trying and just got pushback for decades. other than Christine, the rest of them want money, adulation and limelight, but creativity is of no interest to them. |
I was listening to Rumours DVD-A today. The portion called The Making Of... with band member commentary on each song, left me wondering if Stevie signed back on in 1997, the “organic” experience, with stipulations. Each member went on and on about the leaving off of Silver Springs from the Rumours album... it was borderline pathetic, such groveling! It really is an angry song, seems like the angriest one from that album. Like maybe too angry. If Stevie has been carrying this as a grudge and Lindsey only ever just wanted to be the band leader, because every band needs a leader for cohesiveness, then I can see how things have been slowly crumbling since 1997. Stevie and Lindsey having their own solo careers wasn’t enough for the two of them to not squabble over control when they were in Fleetwood Mac. I feel for Mick and John and it’s no wonder Chris quit. And anyway, Stevie doesn’t have what it takes to be a band leader, so I don’t get it. I’ve worked for people like Lindsey, you find a way to get along or quit. Mick and John know this as I’m sure Chris does, but to work in a team where one member is constantly fighting the leader is draining. Just thinking out loud. Frankly, I don’t know how these people lasted so long as a band after all is said and done.
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Lindsey will look equally as bad, if he would go back. He'd look like a pussy, begging to be let back in, under the queen's graces. They KILLED the band of my life. Stupid old goat. |
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plus just look at the setlist of Buckingham McVie tour in 2017 - they did 8 new songs plus tons of their old hits plus some deep cuts and still skipped some of their biggest hits. |
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If Dick and $tevie are in the band, it's ALL about filling every seat in the house. Dick needs the money, and $tevie needs the attention. |
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but they didn't play Don't Stop or Second Hand News, their huge hits and staples of Mac live shows. and yet it was all great, audience found the show rocking and high energy even though there were so many new songs they haven't heard before. |
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It would have been interesting to see how the band would have worked if Lindsey, Christine and Billy had got together. Obviously Lindsey and Christine's chemistry has been well documented over the years. Christine and Billy I felt had really good chemistry the times they worked together. I would have loved to hear Lindsey put his touch on Billy's work. I think the two really would have got along seeing as Billy has always been willing to play "second fiddle". Mixing Bekka in would have been REALLY cool seeing as she is a completely different type of singer/vocalist than Christine or Stevie. Considering how many different artists Bekka has worked with over the years, I really think she would have found a place in the group and given Fleetwood Mac a new and unique element the band never had before or ever.
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Bekka is technically the best singer FM has ever had. My god she's got some amazing pipes on her! FM doesn't need two male vocalists, though. Especially considering their catalog. And Lindsey would have never allowed that, either. |
Let's be real. There was never a chance of a different configuration of Fleetwood Mac members moving forward as a band without slapping the label of Fleetwood Mac on it. Whenever it has been more than 2 Fleetwood Mac members in a group setting, it has been labeled Fleetwood Mac.
John McVie would never agree to leave his boat for a potentially smaller cash haul to do a smaller tour with a band minus Stevie. Mick has clearly always been motivated by the big money of FM tours and still is. This is why neither John or Mick participated in the BuckVie tour....and what a lame back-peddling move to do. Have a great time recording the album and then not go out on the road with it for fear of band politics...aka Stevie. They never fully supported Lindsey or Christine in that project. It's the same spineless behavior that occurred when Lindsey was fired. Would it have been amazing to see them form a group minus Stevie? Heck yeah but the distorted and warped sense of loyalty has and always would have prevented it from happening no matter how you slice it. It also would have been way too much work and risk for either Mick or John. It's far easier to find a few folks who can cover some guitar parts and "kinda" sound like Fleetwood Mac, reboot the Fleetwood Mac touring show and make a boatload of cash. Heck, has Jonn McVie EVER played with Micks Blues Band? And they BOTH have homes in Hawaii where Mick and his band play. |
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I've always felt it was beyond a miracle that they somehow cobbled together an existence, even if it's a paper-thin chemistry strictly for touring, for the past twenty years since 1997. It's heartbreaking how much garbage Lindsey was willing to let flow under the bridge and still think of them like family up until 2018 when they ALL proved to really be the awful people that even Lindsey didn't ever believe them to be until then. |
I also think one of the biggest revelations in the past ten years was when Stevie was quoted complaining about the 2009 tour because there wasn't any conflict between her and Lindsey which she felt made the tour "blah"
That is some sick sh*t right there. These are not twenty-year-old kids in a band together. These are grown a** adults. What I'm getting at, I don't think there was anything Lindsey could of ever of done to resolve the ongoing issues. Thinking that Christine, John, or Mick would have the balls to step in is liking asking a bunch of toddlers to direct traffic, it wasn't going to happen. You have two people who just wanted the cash... One person who just wanted to be with her band again and not get in the middle of it, but really painted herself as spineless. And one person who really pivoted from being an "artist" to a "performer" and a "performer" at ALL COSTS, a very long time ago who also was only looking out for the glory that comes with being said performer. So really, Lindsey has and has always been on an island amongst that group. |
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But even if you just plug the new album and chuck a few hits in at the end, you'd have had three singer/songwriters who will want their own fare share of their own songs included, baying fans (yes that includes me) who'd want all five classic era albums represented somehow. I have to admit I'm amazed it took two years for anyone to respond to this thread since I started it in a fit of pique, I guess after the appearance on US TV with the baloney about LB not wanting to tour. When I started the thread there wasn't the Present Band forum so for post-Rumours stuff I could only post here. I can't see Lindsey accepting the presence of a second guitarist in the recording unit, much less Mick feeling the need with a man of Lindsey's versatility around. Bear in mind the only one-guitar album they did without him was Heroes. |
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about the 3 songwriters, yes - that's part of what Lindsey used to call "band politics". especially between him and Stevie - each wanted the same number of songs. Christine although she had more hits, seemed to not care as much judging by 2014-15 setlists. so yeah there are legendary bands with many more hits then the Mac, but they didn't have all that band politics to deal with when they would do just a couple of hits at the show. i just checked setlists of the last year's tour and guess what? only 5 of Stevie-penned songs were in the setlist! (and 7 Christine-penned). so as long as LB is not there, Stevie apparently doesn't care how many of the songs she wrote are in the set. if you had 5 staples from each songwriter that's 15 all together and considering they'd usually do about 22, with the Chain that leaves a space for 6 new songs. so i don't buy nor am i willing to make any excuses for that bunch. |
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i'd rather see those admitted Ca$h grabbers than the group that called themselves 'fleetwood mac' over the past 2 years ( yeah-i got sucked in .... vegas,san diego & atlantic city) -lost all respect for them |
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I also blame him for not performing Isn’t It Midnight on tour with Christine because it sounded so incredible live and I miss not getting to hear him do that. I hope his arrangement would have been as good as what we got. |
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Think About Me on 2014-15 tour (Aus leg) was disappointing, unlike Hold Me on BuckVie tour. |
Christine did a wonderful Hold Me on her solo tour in 1984. Sounded better live then than the Mac's 1982 version. Of course Chris had several guys backing her but no background singers LOL
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You don’t know what facts I have. For me, it isn’t an argument.
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Not sure about 2018/2019, because I have no interest in Fakewood Mac. |
Hold Me June 23 2017 Nashville
Well, of course it's not the same. Their voices are not the same, but I do like it. I wouldn't regret seeing them. |
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I have her solo Live in NJ bootleg CD and it sounds amazing. I also saw it live too but its still probably the best "live" version of Hold Me ever. The Buck/Vie was excellent with Lindsey but 2 negatives.....she did not play the piano parts and too many pre-recorded tracks. So while it sounded awesome, I still tip my hat to Christine's solo band for playing the best live version of the song! |
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Have they gotten old? |
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They're old and lazy, but the game has changed for(nearly) everyone. Everyone plays with f*cking tracks now:mad::mad::mad: . Why are we still fans? Oh yeah...a lifetime... |
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