a fool no more, It Takes Time Poll
 

Two of the songs that Peter Green had recorded in the 60's and again upon is return to the stage are "A Fool No More " and "It Takes Time"

In listening to both songs, the versions are different over time. Which versions of each song do you like the best and why? You can include live shows in your choice

I am just curious

doodyhead

Very good question!

I prefer the "In the Skies" version of "A Fool No More". The whole tone of the song is so different from the early Mac version - changing from a tone of anger to one of utter resignation. It might be my favorite track, studio or live, from all of Peter's post-Mac work.

I have the opposite feeling about "It Takes Time". I prefer the live version from The Warehouse in New Orleans, from 30 January 1970 - Peter and the band really nailed it on that night. That version has so much more life to it than the Splinter Group versions I've heard.

I have to agree with Sharksfan :).
The version of "A fool no more" from "In the Skies" is so haunting.
It kind of resonates more, as if you can hear what Greeny had been through.
The 1970 version of "It takes time" has more drive, though.
What about other tracks? I def. prefer the '77 version of "Tribal Dance" to the Splinter Group version. Love the Splinter Group versions of "The Supernatural".

"A Fool No More": Yep, I'll go with the In The Skies version, too, for overall "feel" & the intensity of the vocal, but I like the guitar work of the Fleetwood Mac version a bit better.

While I like both versions of "Tribal Dance", I tend to lean a bit toward the PGSG version as the better of the two. The In The Skies version's main guitar riff gets a bit grating by the middle of the track...the PGSG version's rhythm section has a bit more punch.

For me it's the Bluesbreakers' version of "The Supernatural", all the way. I thoroughly enjoyed hearing the song played during those early PGSG concert sets, though. Up until I saw my first PGSG concert, I was resigned to the thought I'd never actually ever see Peter play those classic songs of his in person. ("Green Manalishi", "BMW", "Albatross", "Rattlesnake Shake", etc).

Even though the Bluesbreakers' version of "The Stumble" has more power & drive (and Peter really seems to be channelling Clapton's tone on that one), I tend to prefer the live version from the first PGSG CD the best...it sounds more "Peter" than that Hard Road version.

terrific thread vinnie. i agree with everyone about 'a fool no more' but at the time in the skies came out i felt the opposite. there's a rawness to the track. the guitar is so highly amplified and you can hear pete sliding his fingers along the strings between the notes. i thought 'geez he's playing is really not sharp' and the vocal sounded lazy and emotionless. i disliked it relative to the original. but it grew on me and eventually i heard the intensity of the playing and the resignation (perfect word sf2k) in the vocals and that was it. a favorite. over the years pete has continued to use the noise his fingers make on the strings between notes for extra expression. a signature that gets me everytime.

i prefer the live splinter group version of 'it takes time' to all of the fmac versions i've heard. its a touchstone to his past, a rerecording on a first 'comeback' record. for me there are three key tracks on the first splinter group record (the live one with the couple of studio tracks). there's the studio 'hitchhiking mama' in which he sings and plays alone- slide in a delta style. unexpected- i was floored. then there are the two live tracks in which pete is the primary guitarist throughout 'goin down' (its all pete) and 'it takes time' (nigel takes a break). both are really fluid and expressive. especially 'it takes time' where he accentuates his singing with small guitar comments here and there. it was very clear at this point he was back and playing very well which, after decline in the pvk and kolors era, i didn't expect. so its a sentimental favorite of mine and the fmac version sounds fake (sorry!) in comparison

what can i say? i know i'm in the minority in the forum but i prefer pete's playing these days to him with fleetwood mac

that said, on the mayall covers, the supernatural, i'll take either. it very hard to reproduce the sound in concert so i'd give the original the edge. its not a favorite of mine anyway. i like the splinter group version of the stumble more - anyone who thinks peter green is a shadow of his former self start here and please shut up, alright?

tribal dance, the in skies version. i never much liked it the first time round. hey! pg&f what about some in the skies material live? zero's favorite funky chunk?

To me sharksfan (talking about life) the version of "It Takes Time" from Stockholm 1969-11-04 is a high octane killer, any thoughts on that one? :)

All the best
/z

another thought
 

Regarding "It Takes Time"
I agree that of the FM takes of this song, the f=version in Sweden 69 had a lot of fire. The problem for me was Mick and John seemed to make it into a march rather than a pony ride
It was more reachable as a song with Brunning Sunflower but the Playing was subdued.

The splinter group played the song better and it worked as a song for them. It was Nigel who was less than up to the task, in my opinion.
As far as A Fool No More. The in The Skies version is so steamy and smoldering, it is reminiscent of Love That Burns.

Regarding the Stumble. To me nothing beats Bluesbreaker version that was released recently by Mayall in that five disc set. He just set the stage on fire. It was just like the "Stop Messin Around" from the College of Distributive Arts"

As for the Supernatural, It is hard to judge that one because it was manufactured in the studio and it is almost a "One of a kind". It sure had Carlos Santana swayed. I am sure that that had a direct effect on the first note he played on his version of Black Magic Woman

I like the Splinter Groups version of Tribal Dance. It is a more mature developed piece by this time

doodyhead

Vinnie, I agree on the Stumble, nothing I've heard beats the Bluesbreaker version. Regarding Stop Messin' Around, I remember a Helsinki version that kills!

Haven't thought of the "march rather than a pony ride" issue. I'll check that out :-)

I couldn't find that version of "A Fool No More" on my HD, but I remember listening to a haunting slow blues FM used to play (beamed me from The Skies back to the FM days).

/z

Zoork, I was going to listen to that Stockholm version again but haven't done it yet. I've listened to the Warehouse version much more often due to the better sound quality.

While we're on the general subject, how about "Albatross"? I never thought anything could top the original (though some of the early live performances are excellent - the ones from Shrine '69 and from the New Orleans Warehouse show come to mind). But I sure do like the recent "Peter Green & Friends" performances - the new arrangement works beautifully, and Peter's playing has been exceptional.

Sure it is "It Takes Time" from Stockholm 1969-11-04, I was there! PG was on fire that night. A highlight of my live concertgoing experiences.
As for "The Supernatural" it's the Hard Road version, but a later version that's spinechilling is 1999-02-28, also from Stockholm, Peter and Nigel Watson played with Ronander Blues Band... By the way, I was there too;-)

Yep, the Bluesbreakers versions are killer, but it was early days - hence the Clapton influence. I don't think Green hade fully developed his tone yet in '66. So it's two sides of the same coin. Personally I very much enjoy versions of "Supernatural" and "Stumble" - just listen to the precision, the care with which he chooses his notes in the recent Stumbles..amazing.

I would plum for the fleetwood mac version of fool no more. I know alot of people see the in the skies version in a positive light, and i do like the album alot however for me they are incomparable.
I feel the in the skies version is like they have asked him to play an old tune and to me he doesnt sound like he´s giving his all, or maybe due to his well being he was unable too. The fleetmac version is awesome and pretty flawless!

Have to agree with Greenmanastrat concerning Fool No More. It has much more of the anger that Sharksfan seemingly dislikes compared to the In The Skies Version. I reckon that I would feel the anger too when I conclude for myself that I won't be that fool no more either. But....each to his own opinion, with al respect. BTW just listened to the Middle Earth Club version. Awful recording, but Peter's tone was outstanding.

As for The Stumble, I feel that no version can in any way compete with Freddie King. Sorry folks. And actually the same goes for It Takes Time. No better that Otis Rush, although I do feel that Peter did a really good job on this one, whichever version.
:wavey:

Wouter, it's not that I don't like the Mac recording of "A Fool No More". The lyrics certainly suggest a tone of anger would be appropriate - Peter does a fine job of it there and I like it quite a bit. But I was stunned at how he turned the whole feeling of that song upside-down with the In the Skies version. His vocal and playing on that carry so much more emotion to me.... it reminds me in a way of Peter's first masterpiece, "Out Of Reach" (and as Vinnie mentioned, "Love That Burns", as well as other slower, down-beat numbers like "Worried Dream" and "All Over Again"). But of course as with many blues (and other) songs, what carries an emotional connection with one person may not do that with another.

a fool some more and it takes more time
 

I have to agree with Wouter with respect to "It Takes Time" But which Otis Rush version?He too, had so many. The one that he did in Mourning In The Mornin (produced by Michael Bloomfield and Nick Gravenetes) was not as good as the original. In fact the second best one in my opinion was done by The two producers in "Live At The Filmore West". That was the first version I heard and is a benchmark for me. I was just comparing PG versions in this PG site. As for the Stumble, again Freddy King is the King. I saw him do it live and I wa floored, but that was never recorded. Even Freddies "I'm Tore Down was not as good in Getting Ready as it was on the original recording. "Oh Well", but PG does a hard to beat version and any guitarist would give their Fret Arm for that.

doodyhead

Thanks Wouter, Lee and Ken

It's the anger, and the passion that wins out for me.
 

It's the versions with Fleetwood Mac. "A Fool No More" from the Blue Horizon boxset is essential listening. If I remember it's eight takes, with Green getting very frustrated with the false starts. Finally by the eighth take, he's angry yet restrained in his approach to the song. His restrained technique, only to drop the hammer when it gives it's greatest impact is Peter Green. That was his gift. Not only that the way he plays those quasi blues/jazz chords is perfection, not one bum note.

Jimmy Page didn't play the blues like this until Peter Green became a well known musician. Songs such as "Since I've Been Loving You" I think are a direct influence from Peter and FM, with songs such as "Drifting", and "A Fool No More". They may have not been released on an album, but I'm sure Page visited a FM gig or two back then. I read from a third party, so I don't know if it's accurate: Apparently Jimmy Page admitted that when it came to British blues, Peter Green's FM was it.


As for "It Takes Time", it's 1/70 in New Orleans. I'd even choose the Brunning version, but this has some teeth. It gets a little weak towards the end, but again it's Peter's inner fire during this period that set himself apart from the herd.

One thing the blue horizon version highlights for me is the way they recorded too. Its quite plain too see that they basically done live takes with peter playing and singing at the same time! How awesome is that, im sure that never happens now. I love Mcvies bass as well on fool no more outlines the chords and creates the perfect mood really stunning stuff! One of my all time fav tunes.:thumbsup:

Well.....my band just did a three-day recording session for a second CD where the vocalist plays lead guitar as well. No overdubbing.
Have to admit though, there's no record company behind us. We just HAVE to do everything ourselves. Did about 3 to 5 takes for each song and decided that not all songs have been played good enough to make the CD.:shrug:
Snag is, I can not get that Peter Green FM-days touch :mad:

The intro of "Since I've Been Loving You" is definitely a "borrow/steal" from "Love That Burns".

I hope in some circles that still exists, in fact I know it does. There are producers out there who still want a "live" song in the studio so the musicians have to sing, and play at the same time. Actually the more I think about it, it was rare even then for the singer to record live playing his/her instrument, even on four track. Yet the most underrated aspect of Peter was his voice.

Funny how Mick Fleetwood screwed up the majority of the takes, then McVie gets out of the beat on one of them, Peter too. McVie nails it for the final take.

There was an .mp3 interview snippet of Mick Fleetwood vivfox posted recently about Peter Green. He discussed how playing with Peter made him a more focused drummer, becuase Peter expected you to perform. I think the outtakes from the Blue Horizon period prove that point. I love the snippet where Green threatens to "brain" Mick Fleetwood if he screws up the intro, and beat to "Need Your Love So Bad" :laugh: Then there's another "Need..." outtake where Peter says something like "For f**k's sake Mick". priceless

a lost art
 

I have to agree with you all on this. Most bands these days, when they go in to the studio, they layer track after track to achieve whatever sound or mood they are looking for. An example can be taken from a later FM song "The Chain" which was allegedly so many pieces grafted together. In the olden days they had only crude methods of additive recording and as such most recordings were made in one shot. It is a testament to Peter and to that band that they were able to get the results they did. Just plain outstanding musicianship. I know that I would much rather record the song as I would play it. The sense of being in the moment is something that makes music a true joy.

In reference to "The Horizon Box Set" : I just loved hearing the songs develop on each additional take. "oye yea, the blues has got me"

doodyhead

a lost art
 

Mmmm, I remember it was listening to Fleetwood Mac boots that made me a sucker for "free from cheating" live recordings.......

/z

The Million dollar question....
 

Good question, doodyhead. And a lot of great answers to it as well.

To me the emotional colouring makes the difference between the two tracks: "A Fool No More" - The original Fleetwood Mac version - emotionally it is caught between anger, frustration and lust. This guy wants to live! The "In The Skies" version projects pure resignation and most of all total loss. It's heartbreaking. This guy does not want to live. I agree with dino that it resignates more when you know about Greens lifestory. It is "so low energy as to be comatose" - (as Celmins write about PG's performance during the 1983 Kolors tour). Still I love this version so much - just as much as I love the first version for it's energy and zest for life.
I haven't heard A fool No More for quite a while and I am right now. It´s unbelievably beautiful guitarplaying in both cases.....

I don't know about "It Takes Time". I like the version from the Live in Soho CD, better than the Warehouse one ...I think. Like A fool No More there is a lived life between the two versions. And therefore they have different qualities. I have to give the Stockholm version a chance. Haven't heard it with this question of yours in mind, doodyhead.

Now I have heard "In The Skies", which always frustrates me because I get confused about whose playing what....and all that...jazz

Ms Moose