Is there like a "three strikes you're out" system on this board? Several people have talked about strikes. I've never heard of this.

And to all moderators: The stickies are truely getting out of control. Take it or leave it. I'm not ordering you to take them down... just saying that maybe there is a more appropriate place to put them because it really makes the main page of the Rumours message board look confusing and sloppy.

NOTE: I am directing this at you (hence the quote) ;)

I didn't realize that you were the one to determine when the thread was to wind down. After you posted that you were done with the thread, you still went on to post several other times. To me, that seems to be in contradiction to your "winding down" argument.

I don't think it is ever right for people to be verbally abusive. For you, me or anyone else. Exactly why did you feel that my comment about communication was based on you specifically? :shrug: :shrug:

Is it really neccessary to go back and analyze every single person's messages? We're all starting to look pathetic and like a bunch of losers.

Thank you, Johnny.

Yes, there is more than one "offender" that brought my comments to mind.

Huh? :confused: I just read up on this thread and responded - I apparentely missed the most important part of the discussion earlier today when I was at work :rolleyes:

If people are going to cry foul about the alleged censorship that they feel is being forced upon them on the board, I would think that a look at why such tactics may be involved in managing a message board like this is entirely appropriate. My personal opinion is that it is Marty who has committed time, energy and financial resources to making this site possible, and he alone can determine what the rules are and why they need to be followed. I also feel that the moderators on this board have done an outstanding job of handling these types of situations.

As for the stickies, geez people . . . is it really that big of an issue? That it takes an extra 1/10 of a second to scroll past them? I appreciate them, especially for the Fritz tracks.

I have and had every intention of removing the sticky on the 'Burnish Situation' thread after Midnight, EST, tonight.

The stickies regarding the 'Discography Contest' will stay, however, as we'd like as many people as possible to be aware of the contest, and to participate.

I believe Marty would also like as many people as possible to be aware of the Fritz tracks, hence the stickies on those.

As have you evidently. Just logged on and noticed this thread was still going. The first word that popped into my head was "tedious." No fooling. I made my point. I got Marty's answers. Anything left is pure tedium indeed. I won't even bother to read further.

Yeah, right.... :laugh: You know you're going to look- you can't resist! If you see a new post, it could be someone challenging one of your points and then you would have to get the last word.

:laugh: ;) :thumbsup:

:rolleyes:

No, you're pulling these mysterious lurkers out of the air to aide your argument and I just don't see its relevance. Why not just say that you don't like what's going on instead of attempting to speak for all the other mysterious lurkers? Sounds easy to me, honestly. If they do not participate on the board and don't post, who really cares what their thoughts are about this place? It has no bearing on this board or the people who enjoy posting on it.

Using your logic, next time I'm out in public and I see a few people holding a conversation that I don't like, I should just keep listening to them and curse them in my head.

We stopped talking about your threads four pages ago. ;)

I wish you were as gifted as I am, too, but that's simply not realistic. It would require a certain sobriety to maintain, after all.

Too late. :wavey:

:laugh: :nod:

I have said I don't like it and I've also said I am not speaking out for ALL mysterious lurkers

I've got it dissention, you are not interested in what other people think unless they post here and more important, unless they post their opinion everytime they see something that they think is wrong. Like I said, not everyone feels that way and if you don't like what I'm posting, ignore it, but I'll post it if I think it's relevant to the conversation. You don't get to decide what's relevant and every conversation and post does not have to appeal to you and a small group of posters. If it doesn't interest you move on or ignore it.

Get ready to hit your ignore function if you don't want to read it again.

There are people who consider themselves part of this fan community and who may not post on this board or every board or any board, and are tired of seeing site owners harassed and/or disprespected on their own sites. I'll also throw in that there are fans who do post on this forum and share these feelings but they are afraid of the backlash and bull***** from bullies, but are afraid to speak up. I'm speaking for myself and I'm stating what I know other people have voiced to me. If you and others aren't interested there's enough other conversation going on that you can debate someone else over what you think is relevant conversation for this site.

If you'd like to curse me out in your head, go right ahead and I hope you enjoy it ;)

Well...they should. :D

Yes, in post #1.


Yes, in post #9.


The rest? "Pure tedium indeed." Although very funny. :laugh:

Sorry, hope I'm not "interfering" again, I'd hate to step out of place and "scold" you. I only hope you can see the "humor" in this posting, as everyone else here is supposed to see the "humor" in all of your posts. :xoxo:

Oh, so that's what the smilies are for -- to lighten the mood. I get it now!!!

Everyone should!


Seriously, every fan should experience the joy of running and moderating a message board for a few months. Truly rewarding, if you don't mind the sore butt. :laugh:

I just want to say there is nothing wrong in talking about drugs when you are speaking of PAST drug use. Or mentioning various drugs.

But taking them, talking about their effects and showing pics of you on them and showing pics OF the dugs and pill bottles...that's not cool. THAT is irresponsible.

That's all I have to say.

Moderating is no bigger than what everyone does.If someone sends us a message, they are moderating too.

We are just responsible to take the next time. But really, we are all moderators, watching out for everyone's best interest.

LUX,

You know what I mean.

Do you ever get the feeling you've all been had? I can see how some of the people around here might have taken Carne's post as rude, but I've been around awhile though I only post once in a while, and I thought it was very funny. Carne has a knack for getting people's attention, walking right on the edge of propriety, sucking everyone in to a pretty much pointless debate, then bowing out. Meanwhile, you're carrying on the discussion. He's probably sitting back and laughing.

When Marty was able to crack a joke and leave it at that after the tense back-and-forth between him and Carne, he was probably letting us know that he was done with the matter and he wasn't going to hold a grudge. But the beat goes on somehow.

:shrug:

is that what people do for fun?

yes, it's the internet. Humiliation and fun......it's all good fun for some :shocked:

I didn't need to say your name for people to know who I was talking about. There's only one person on this board who posts as they're supposedly ODing. Might I suggest psychotherapy.

I would thank you for the compliments, but you're probably making them while under the influence, unfortunately.

I don't think there's been any humiliation at all, at least not that I can see. What I see is people, yourself included, taking things too seriously and probably would have been better off staying out of the fray altogether.

That's an interesting assessment of the situation. I was wondering myself whether this thread had a serious point or not. Carne can speak for himself about his intentions in the original post. My impression was that he had a concern about arbitrary enforcement of rules and overuse of sticky threads. I don't have an opinion on whether he posted his concerns in a friendly enough manner. Moderators can decide if rules were broken. When the thread rolled around to the topic of censorship it drew my interest. The comparisons Carne made about the liberal policy the Ledge had toward free-speepch during the fan club debate vs. arbitrary deleting of threads regarding Burnish is interesting. My only comment on this might spark a new round of heated debate, but here goes...

The entire fan club controversy had a tremendous public impact not just for long-time Ledgies or frequent posters at this board. It also had far reaching impact on the general public. Internet fan clubs are a huge unregualted enterprise which unscrupulous people have exploited to the detriment of all. A personal beef with someone at another message board which then turns into a personal feud played out across various message boards is another matter. I often agree with some of the unpopular things Carne has to say, but I disagree that something is wrong with the way Ledge moderators handled the fan club debate. The Ledge owners and mods went out on a limb to uphold the concept of free speech when it was truly worth the public good, and potentially to their own detriment. I don't see that as comparable to allowing free-wheeling debate about strictly personal disagreements. I understand others might see it differently. I just wanted to take this opportunity to thank Marty and the Ledge mods once again for providing an open forum for fans to express uncensored opinions about the fan club when nobody else with anything at stake would do the same.

Now it's time to lock this thread! (just kidding) :lol:

I can't speak for Carne, and he does a good job of that himself. I undertstand what you're saying, but I think he was pointing out that there was a lot of invective, expletives and what he called gratuitous insults in those threads, which I remember seeing myself. There is no doubt in my mind that some of those threads went overboard even though a lot of people had some genuine gripes.

Eh, like I said, Carne shoudl speak for himself. I am now helping to prolong a discussion I said should have ended by now, but these things take on a life of their own. I do think some of this was taken too seriously, but that's neither here nor there.

All I know, is that I'm buying the dude some knitting needles and yarn for Christmas. That's a more constructive hobby. ;) :xoxo:

I disagree there was A LOT of posting that crossed the line. You're right about certain posts which did. I'm sure I was one of the guilty ones using choice words. But if I recall correctly, posts that crossed the line of vulgarity or gratuitous insults were, in fact, deleted. I didn't complain about it then and I don't disagree with enforcing decorum now, as long as the debate is not being squelched because the topic is controversial. I still don't see the two situations as comparable, but I understand what you're saying.

I'm getting Carne In the Meantime for x-mas. He'll need those knitting needles while he listens! :laugh:

My sarcasm got the nu page again! :woohoo:

Originally posted by Lux: :eek: I was perfectly happy staying out of the fray until I saw THAT! :mad: DAYUM, that was rude!

I know, but what else can we expect, Livia? :xoxo:

I couldn't agree more. :distress:

If you think I am better than you because I don't do drugs, I do not.

If you think that I look down on those who willingly take pills/drugs just to "feel good", I do.

It's none of my business but why should we let anyone say taking drugs is great, it's cool, it makes you feel good. Drugs ultimately kill, you know that??

I literally watched my dad die of a drug overdose. I literally have watched people get very sick on drugs. Hell, I have even partken in pot smoking and gotten very ill from it.

It's no good. It's never good. It should never be seen as good.

It's not your personality, it's not your sense of humor, it's not anything about YOU Lux, we are all different kinds of people. SO DO NOT take this personally.

It's ONLY because you glorified drug use. THAT IS ALL.

Rock on Thin LIne! I ageree with what you're saying. I can only wish that I had the talent to express myself in written words the way some of you do around here at times, but I do agree with you and all that you have said in this thread. Thanks.

Renee

Renee, I know what you mean. I also feel I cannot express myself as well as some do on here:)

Exactly! You got it! :xoxo:

I could care less what people think unless they pipe up. I try not to waste my time worrying about what is bothering people I've never had the opportunity to converse with or post with; it's futile and a waste of time.

I think I'm perfectly capable of knowing when and when not to use the ignore function; that's my decision, not yours. :wavey:

Also, give me an instance of the site owners being harrassed and disrespected on this site. It's never happened from me and I've never seen others do it. Questioning what happens is much different that harrassing, but you obviously can't differentiate between the two.

Again, if they don't like what's going on, join in on the conversations and make an attempt to change things, don't just sit back and complain. Heck, what I've seen from you is just non-stop harping; I've yet to see you actually partake in an on-topic discussion.

Great point. Many of those people who were abused by Mick's site and ripped off by the fanclub were new, or unknown, or previous lurkers. Many didn't want to speak out publicly but that didn't mean that their opinions or what happened to them was irrelevant or not to be taken seriously because every single one of them would not speak out publicly. I believe 500+ people signed the petition to remove the fanclub and make them accountable, but not every single one of those fans were known or current active posters here on the Penguin site. Not every single one of those people posted here and continued the fight to rid the fanclub of Sabremark, but the fans here knew they were out there and knew how they felt.

Kudos to the Penguin for standing up for and with the fans who had been abused, even if many of the regular posters here did not get ripped off or were not the ones thown out and abused at Mick's site. The regular posters here at the Ledge put up with a huge amount of threads about the fanclub debacle and rarely complained about its impact on this message board.....so Kudos to the members of the Ledge!

Frankly, I think you come across as not only desperate, but starved for attention, Lux. Why else would someone continually harp on their drug use and make off-handed remarks about being called a "little slut" as a child? For some reason, you feel the need to board-hop and express these things in various ways, whether it's posting pictures of yourself with a butcher knife to your wrist or pictures of yourself swallowing pills.

If by saying those things, you think I feel that I'm superior, so be it. But at least I had the balls to say it, whereas others just rolled their eyes and passed by your deranged absurdity. Though, according to you, I'm an "unjustifiably arrogant f*ck," so you should not be surprised that I mouthed off in your direction. ;)

In the end, I could care less. I just find it amusing that, in your warped sense of reality (drug-induced or otherwise), you find it appropriate to abuse this site for such rambling and, in some cases, offensive nonsense.

That's all, I'm done with it. :wavey:

It also sounds vaguely like a threat. :(

It is beginning to look like you've brought a lot of anger to this site, and I can't for the life of me figure out why. I keep seeing you fight with people. Your first posts were to fight with Lux, who looks like the last thing she needs is to get into another fight.

Who hurt you so much on other boards that you have to bring all that baggage over here?

I don't know whether to laugh, be totally appauled or completely outraged. Wow...I do wish that I would have made a bet after the board re-opened on how long it would take for people to drive it to **** again. Unfortunately, I would have won. I can deal with some people and outright rude and self-indulgent posts for a while, but i'd be lying out of my ass if I didn't say the latest batch of "sesame streeter" activity doesn't totally boggle my mind and make me want to NOT log on (as some have chose to do). Perhaps it's time for a lot of us to re-examine why it is we began to post here in the first place. I think we'll all see that we've gotten away from what tied us all together.

This site owner was disrespected on this site in this thread. Just because you don't think so doesn't mean everyone agrees and sees it your way. Questioning what happens with respect for the person who provides a forum with his time money and energy is the very least someone can do. I can differentiate perfectly, Carne's original post in this thread was rude and disrespectful. We obviously have different opinions about respect, fine.

As for my harping, remembering glitterfades post about the fanclub problems last year reminds me of the timing of when you came to this site and what you were complaining about. As far as I can remember, you were not a well known poster here, you did not have a history of posting in on-topic discussions yet you were not told how to post, what was relevant to the site and you were not told about your non-stop harping about the fanclub. The long time members of this site didn't know many of the fans who came here complaining bitterly and taking over this board with endless posts about what did not interest many on this site. There was barely a complaint about having to scoll past 10 threads about the fanclub in order to get to the regular on-topic threads about the band and tour.

As I pointed out in my previous post to glitterfades, there were hundreds of fans who did not post about what happened to them and their unhappiness about the fanclub and Mick's site, but this community was interested in how they felt and wanted their support, even if that support was silent and only appeared as a signature on a petition. They didn't tell them their opinion was irrelevant and they couldn't sign the petition because they didn't want to post about their concerns and fustrations in this forum. Funny how fast you forget now that you've built up 7900 posts since you joined a short time ago.