well Lindsey sort of says something similar in his interview in Mojo, that "I think Stevie's a little torn. It has a lot to do with her life in general and trying to figure out what means something to her." :(

right! and I think he's onto something..

yes, that's what Lindsey seems to baffled with too. he said many times he feels like FM are a family in a sense. and also this:
so who knows, you may be right. although she may be just purely annoyed by someone in the band who rubs her the wrong way (and maybe even all of them), it may be something else entirely.

It reminds me of Lindsey's explanation of his song, Under the Skin. He eventually conceded it was about Stevie and said it was about someone who was having trouble getting from point A to point B.

I know it's hard, being so hard to find. Your passion swallows you whole, deaf dumb, and blind ... Lay your head down. No one will see. Cry me a river of new dreams; float yourself free.

I'm also reminded of her telling Jim Ladd in 1979:

Michele

I get what you're saying and there's a lot of sense there. However, the "individual-specific expectations" so many of us have are really the result of having devoted so much of our lives--for many of us decades--to this band and, now, when the possibility of this line-up's first studio album in 25 years is about to happen, to see the rug yanked out from under us--well, that FEELS cruel, just plain cruel. Is Stevie the scapegoat for a lot of this anger? Yes, right now she is. But Lindsey once was, too. I was devastated when Christine left the band in 1998. And angry at the remaining four for not allowing her to make a studio release with them.

I guess what I'm saying is, at one point or another, these five people have driven each other AND their hardcore fans right up the wall. As much as it seems silly to type this, I realize that this band and their music have been such an important part of me for most of my life. I take their business VERY seriously. And so, rationally or otherwise, I take the news of a "mooted," contentious and therefore delayed studio album as serious as I would something proportionally more "important."

Anyway, this is not the case of fans wanting instant gratification. Their last album came out in 2003. No one is unreasonably expecting anything. Michele

Agreed. We're not being consumer sluts. We've waited a looooooong time.

i've held back on this thread for quite a while
 

had a few glasses of wine though, so here goes.
It is unsettling to me to see where these interviews are casting Stevie. Now it could be publicity, just building up the tension for a big announcement of her participation.
BUT if she is truly in the place she seems to be, I can't blame her.
the band members (sans Chris) seem to minimize her, if not infantilize her. The 2013 interview where Mick is making "loon" motions with his hands as she speaks, Lindsey saying he has to craft her songs for them to be any good!
She has had great success with AND without him. To still be saying "no one" can make her songs successful but him probably pisses her off. Watching IYD dvd, she has clearly become much more attuned to song-craft than she was as a 20-30 yo woman. She knows how she wants to sound. And she's done quite well on her own and with FM since Lindsey's departure.. I would even argue the TITN songs (other than 7 wonders) were not as good as what she did on BTM.. those were Lindsey productions.
Add to that the pressure of being nearly 70, and still having to work to support Lori, Sharon, Karen, Jess and Chris (since no one else is clamoring for his "art - direction" ) has to be tiring and difficult.
I honestly miss the free-flow of ideas this site used to be.. Now it seems like everyone is polarized into camps.
From the recent interviews, it seems Stevie is troubled... but I can't blame her. I paint.. if I had a friend who said "you should change that color" and I told him why I chose that color, he'd say "ok"... but when Stevie explained her verb-tense choice to Lindsey, he STILL felt the need to get t he last word..
Either it's all for show, or they really are hopelessly at logger-heads... ( I said "logger-heads" )
thanks to anyone who read this and doesn't flame me for it.
JS

To me, this refers to writing new material. I could be wrong, but we write about things that are important to us. Perhaps, the well run dry from writing about her past relationship. Or, she doesn't want to write about LB, anymore.

They should take a vacation after the tour. They will probably take 6 months off. People including band members that were talking about releasing the album in 2016 were so unrealistic. 2017 is more likely. I still think we will see an album in 2017.

Agree, they need 6 months away from each other. Go and spend some of the millions they've earned, spend some time with their friends and families..
Anything but see each other and think about ---getting into the studio---.

But it would be a forced vacation for 4 of them. Only one of them is claiming to be tired and in need of a break.

What comes through to me in this is just utter exhaustion from most of them, but particularly Nicks. Given some time off and rest I think the perspective could be different, maybe. I also think that whatever went down on Say You Will has apparently turned off Nicks from working under Buckingham-produced Mac for a long time.

In a way, from the way she sounds - and again, its clear she's really just very tired of the touring right now - I could see Nicks actually quitting Fleetwood Mac after this tour. She sounds that exhausted, Christine back or no. And if Mick is being honest about no Mac if not this Mac then what a shame, they'd be done.

Hopefully they'll finish the tour, take time off, let Nicks recuperate, and then pull it together for one great last double album.

exactly.

i'm amused how so many people keep reading the article with interviews from 5 people are extrapolating how they are all tired and exhausted even though 4 of them appear reinvigorated and want to forge on.

perhaps SN being tired of 4 of them has led to her giving a green light they can all talk about what is actually going on?

I fear for the future
 

This article/interview just makes me sad....I understand Stevie wanting a break after a mammoth tour. But the prospect of her not being part of a new album, or being minimally involved like she was with Tango, just depresses my spirit. Why did the Mac stretch out their tour so long? In the U.S. they covered many cities twice...seems unnecessary and that it was done for the almighty dollar.

I wish they had recorded a new album before they started the tour, but of course, "yesterday's gone....."

I agree, Stevie is the only one who sounds to be exhausted, but I still think they need a break from each other........haven't these people got homes to go to?

Well stated!

She is partly responsible for this situation. She used the "Christine's not here" line for awhile, something no one dreamed would ever happen.

But then, Poof!!! The FMac machine worked its magic and Christine returned. One would think Stevie would have been thrilled. Reality - not so much. She might have been better off choosing something else with a lower chance of happening.

Now, if I'd only have bought lottery tickets when the whole subject of Christine returning came up. :)

I think, "when pigs fly" still works.:laugh:

Michele

Mick-New album and tour
John-Whatevet Mick wants
Christine-New album and tour
Lindsey-New album and tour
Stevie-I'm tired

Questions?

Love this! So I think Stevie's been "tired" of Fleetwood Mac since the whole Say You Will album and tour unpleasantness went down. But it was a once every three year commitment so she dealt with it. In her mind she'll participate in the 2013 tour then bye bye FM for another three or four years, while she can do what she really wants to do: make another record with Dave Stewart and do some touring. But then Christine came back. This wasn't in Stevie's plans and I think she still trying to wrap her head around it. I don't think she's quite as overjoyed as she claims to be at Chris' return. I think she now feels trapped by this never ending tour and potential album, neither of which were part of her three year plan. I think what she's experiencing now is the clashing of two very strong forces: her loyalty to Fleetwood Mac (& Christine) and her desire to do what she truly wants to do. I believe she had the final years of her career very well planned out and then everything got completely and totally screwed up.

"He and Stevie don’t get on. On stage, they act. Privately, no."

I think Lindsey is just as much to blame for Stevie's lack of interest in participating. He doesn't make the recording process enjoyable for her. It's "his way"..."his vision"...a fact that was painfully pointed out in the "Destiny Rules" Doc, and then again on in her own "In Your Dreams" Doc.

I don't want another Fleetwood Mac album that houses tension a la "Rumours". It's been done. If they are going to do one last record to bring everything "full circle", I'd much prefer happiness, harmony and fun in the same vein as the White 1975 self titled album.

If this isn't possible because of Stevie and Lindsey acting like spoiled children, then it's better Fleetwood Mac go on as a "foursome" and let Stevie go on with her own solo thing.

One can only hope this "sham" and "act" those two have been giving their audiences night after night will finally someday translate into a real life situation of mutual love and respect when they realize their shared history, success, and music is much more important than any petty "power plays" or "my ways!"

Just my opinion.

Well said.

Well, it couldn't possibly be Lindsey creating drama for publicity. No, he'd never do that. :lol:

People always say things like this. Is there some famous example of them playing up drama when in fact there was none?

He said in the Destiny Rules documentary that he intentionally plays up the Lindsey/Stevie romance and drama for the audience when they're on stage. I'd really rather see a good performance than see someone pretend to show feelings for someone they really don't like. And if he'd go that far I wouldn't be surprised if he played up internal drama to sell concert tickets or drum up interest in an album project.

It's this 3 year thing that is partially why we haven't had an album. Every time she comes back she just wants to tour. Each time Lindsey is like may be we can go in the studio afterward? And she's like nah. So then they go their own way and when they return to the band they go on another tour and the cycle continues. At some point an album and tour have to go together.

i'm confused. Lindsey's role is writing songs, playing guitar, arranging, singing, and producing, but how is it his or anybody's job when working on new album to "make it enjoyable" for a specific person?

love it - clear and succinct!

Where in the documentary does he say this?

Lindsey has said that it's staged, but he didn't say he was the one doing it and I don't think he talked about it in the DR documentary.

Michele

Aside from the "you wouldn't say that to Bob Dylan" shtick, it wasn't pointed out at all from what I saw. I didn't see Lindsey doing anything in the DR documentary that hampered Stevie's enjoyment of anything. I mean, there's a lot that didn't make it into that video that I'm sure went on behind the scenes. But based on what we did see, he wasn't insisting on having anything his way. He was working with her on sound and everything else (double album or single album, etc.) and they compromised. He didn't get his way. They came to contretemps regarding the engineer, but in the end, he didn't make the choice about CLA.

Michele

There's this expectation that people not only have to be professional with Stevie, but they have to bow down to her and enjoy her celebrity or else the palm trees (or the wrath of millions) will smack them in the head. I mean, you can't just treat her like a person. You have to treat her like a deity -- or else you're the devil. Stevie talks like that and has for decades, until she's created a perception that that's how it should be, when actually her expectations are juvenile. I think she's not happy unless she's catered to, rather than just treated like one of the band.

It's like when she said Lindsey treated her like one of his daughters and she really liked that. It reminded me of Lindsey looking out the window at his kid during an interview and saying, "Oooh, look at Lee Lee on the trampoline." Stevie would love it if Lindsey would look at her -- twirling a baton and start cooing and clapping and praising her. But I think he thinks that would be idiotic. Hence, their problems.

And of course, I'm not talking about the past when they were yelling and hostile, because no one wants to work under those conditions. I'm talking about now, when I think there's mostly civility, but that's not enough. There needs to be adoration or else Stevie is miserable.

Michele

Perfectly, and (in my view) accurately stated. :thumbsup:

She JUST doesn't want to do another album. I think she has writers block or is afraid she will be outshined by Lindsey and Christine. Her last couple of albums were either co written or old songs. It's not that tiring for her to be involved. She gives them the songs and let's the musicians play it. She adds the vocals. They do most of the work and whenever she is there she can have people attend to her every need. It's a big lie, just like their fake hold handing on stage. I'm tired of the ever changing story about how they are getting along, which BTW comes from Stevie. Just shut up and quit already Stevie. I could care less anymore.

Can you seriously blame Stevie? Fleetwood Mac was itching to go out on tour again right after Unleashed and gave her hell for taking time to promote IYD. She caved and did the 2013 tour with then only to be blind sided by the return of Christine and a mammoth two year tour with Fleetwood Mac again. She even rushed 24 Karat Gold and did very little promotion for that album so she could go out with the Mac again. But now, after spending three of the last five years touring with FM, Stevie is being bashed? If I remember correctly, Christine took 16 years off. Lindsey left Say You Will and said, "give me five years for my solo career" and now Stevie just wants to take a break before deciding to rush into the studio and that is selfish? I don't blame Stevie for being tired and wanting to tend to her solo career and herself for a while. Don't worry, Stevie will record with them eventually and all will be well in the world.

Yes, but because of Lindsey's quarantining himself from the band for 5 years, Stevie also got a 5 year break from FM. What did she do with it? Tour with Tom Petty unpaid, tour solo ceaselessly, and trot out an increasing procession of irrelevant cover songs. No Rhiannon movie, no goldfish & ladybug cartoon, none of her stale list of things she's always whining FM prevents her from doing. I don't get why it's such a hardship for Stevie to tour 3 years with FM, but her glut of 21st century solo oldies tours wasn't. She's talking out both sides of her mouth, and nobody is really buying it anymore.

She caved in 2013 after 4 years since the previous tour? That exceeds her self imposed 3 year rule. Her solo album was done to fill time between tours while the others were in the studio. She didn't have to do it. It fulfilled a contractual obligation, but that obligation didn't have a time limit. She didn't have to do it then. Plus, she did that particular project because it could be done quickly.

Lindsey asked for ,I think, 3 years to put out 2 albums and tour behind them, which he did in 2006 and 2008. He also asked for those years following a Fleetwood Mac album and tour and, in fact, if I recall correctly he only did that when it became apparent (because of Stevie) they weren't going to do another Fleetwood Mac album after SYW, which is what he would've preferred. If Stevie were asking for the same under the same conditions I don't think anyone would have a problem with it because it means we would've already gotten an album. Lindsey's 3rd album was only done because of Stevie's unwillingness to do a Fleetwood Mac album following the 2009 tour. And what did Stevie do during those 3 years Lindsey asked for? Tour maybe? She certainly didn't record any music. Let's not act like Lindsey's request held the band back from making an album. Stevie would've done that plenty if she had the chance.

It's been 12 years already. I don't get why people are so nonchalant about her "eventually" cooperating when she's been firmly against it for 12 years. It might happen, but certainly it's no sure thing. Plus at everyone's collective age, it's harder now to say "let's take 3 years off" when there's something very special and important that still needs to be done before the band is over. They don't have all the time in the world to do this thing.

Just because she got a break then doesn't mean she can't request one now. Like it or not, other than John and Mick, Stevie has been the most committed member of Fleetwood Mac and if she wants a break I don't see any point in vilifying her for it. The reason her solo tours aren't such a hardship for her is because they are smaller, the sets are ahorter, and she runs them. She doesn't have to worry about her solo tour running across the world over the next two years. If she were to say yes to Fleetwood Mac she would be signing herself up to make a record for the next year, releasing it in 2016 and touring with them again thru 2017, which ends up being five straight years of Fleetwood Mac, which is clearly not what Stevie wants and I don't see why anyone would blame her.

Simply not quitting the band does not equal commitment. She's actively held the band back several times from recording an album and she will again, most likely. She's not committed to this band.

Several times? Other than now and when she was in the middle of a solo project, when has she actively held them back?

Also, not quitting the band is more commitment than quitting the band.

As I posted, Lindsey wanted to go in after SYW to do another album....she understandably wanted a break. Ok. Then after 2009 tour Lindsey wanted to do another album. He mentioned throughout the tour that's what he was hoping to do. Stevie said no. Then in 2012 Lindsey wanted to do an album. Stevie said no. The rest of the band recorded music without her and she ended up agreeing to add background vocals to 2 of Lindsey's songs, spending a total of a few days on it, and provided a recent recording of a 40 year old Buckingham Nicks song as her contribution to their now EP. She didn't sing a single lead vocal. She did the bare minimum. And then, of course, their current situation with a reunited lineup and the others raring to go. Stevie says no.

There are levels of commitment. The line between quitting and not quitting could be considered one. But it seems to be a begrudging commitment at that and she won't record any music with them. Quitting is the more admirable option, to be honest.

Stevie has had nothing but breaks. It was after SYW that Stevie said she would never record with FM again unless Christine returned to the band. That is why Lindsey said he'd take 3 (not 5) years for a solo album. Well, Christine HAS returned to the band and she still does not want to record. It's not like the woman has been working ceaselessly with FM for the last decade and now deserves a little time to catch her breath. They wanted to record with her before she ever thought of being tired. Tired is just her latest excuse.

I'm not vilifying her. I don't think she's worth the time. If she doesn't want to be on the album, I don't think she should be and Lindsey should shut up about wanting to produce her stuff. I'm more mad at the other four for thinking they can't record without her than I am with her for not recording with them. With her current mindset, I don't think her contributions to a Mac album would be gratifying. She'd hate the process and she'd say she hated it and the result until all of them die and that's not what I want. I don't see any reason to force or shame her into the recording studio, but I also don't understand the "Oh, she just needs a rest. She's been working so hard" excuse.

There may be an album some day, but there won't be an album in due time, because due time was years ago.

Michele