I wouldn't go by the youtube videos for OMS. I really do think it's so much better in person. I loved it. The backing tracks were only on 4 songs and I actually liked them a lot on two (Come and ISA), and didn't even notice them on one of the songs (Stephanie). If you had gone to the show and didn't like it, fine. But unless you've experienced it in person, I don't know how you can really draw a conclusion on what the shows were like. I love the intimate atmosphere and really grew to appreciate many of those songs in a way I never had before.

I can't argue against the experience of being at the show, nor would I want to. I'm sure if I had gone to a show, I would have had fun.

However, I was careful to say what I know of the show is from the recordings and the YouTube postings, and what I saw there did not move me. I would have loved a completely different approach. And I bet I would be saying the same thing, had I gone to a show. It's possible to enjoy the performance when you're at the venue and then not like the recording or video of it. Happens all the time. And what I saw and heard on recordings gave me the sense that Lindsey has no confidence in himself as a solo performer. Leave the effects and the tricks at home, and just play, man! That is all I am saying.

If you loved the show, that's great. I'm glad you did.

I didn't get that impression at all. I think OMS actually gave him a lot of confidence. He put a lot of emotion into those songs and I think that was hard for him but helped him grow.

We differ here. I think OMS was awesome. I really think it's wrong to use prerecorded vocals in fullband liveenironment, like they do now. The open and transparant use of backingtracks on a few songs in OMS was not my choice, but no problem at all; it did not mask anything.

The production of IYD was as aweful as these tracks. Only Without You stands out as the most harsh and dreadful recording ever. Metallic paint without an underground.

Yes! Wish I could like this post! YouTube makes everything look dull and bad quality and not great sound most of the time... It's rare that it's good ;)

IYD doesn't bother me that much, except in some places where it sounds like Dave and Stevie are stuck in the 80s. The same can be said of Lindsey, though. Listen to Sad Angel.

Honestly, I just don't get these people anymore. Lindsey should have take a cue from the guy who produced the This Is 40 tracks and used it as a guidepost for future recordings. Instead, it's back to the over-produced studio trickery that's gotten kind of old, in my view.

:thumbsup: exactly! how can one complain about sound and production details and than judge something by youtube videos?? either you do or you don't...

and this!

and this! like you, Rockaway, shackin'up had similar complaints about OMS (and LB did not have OMS show nowhere near the place where he lives so he can form an informed opinion). but unlike you, he actually listened to the OMS itunes release and changed his mind.

Wow, I don't think what I wrote was so hard to understand, especially after I went back and explained it. Let me give it another shot: It may have sounded fantastic live to those who attended the show. It's possible the acoustics in the venues were tremendous and the sound was stellar. But, sorry, the sound on the digital release was crappy. It was thin and synthetic. To my ears, it's very unappealing.

Sounds like you liked it. That's great.


Uh, so he has an "informed opinion" if he decides in the end that it's good, even though he didn't go to the shows? But if you don't go to the shows, but listen to the recording and decide it's crap, it's not an informed opinion. Is that what you are saying?

Tell me, do you see a problem with that reasoning? Or does it seem perfectly logical to you?

where does this say that you listened to the digital release? i guess after your additional explanation quoted below i can now understand that was what you tried to say. but that was not what you said. :laugh:

:laugh::laugh: let me explain this to you slowly, like you were apparently trying to me: he has more informed opinion than you IF he heard digital release and you haven't.

you didn't clearly say that you've heard digital release, and thinking logically (that may have been the wrong choice :rolleyes:) i couldn't predict you were willing to spend 90 minutes of your life and $10 for digital release when you were not willing to spent any of that to actually go hear the show live when it was in your neck of the woods, despite your long-standing love for this guy's music.

to conclude, just to make it really clear :p - if you both heard digital release, your opinions are both informed.

i will still never understand why you decided to skip on actually hearing what he had to offer. it just always seemed like trying to make some kind of point (kinda like "you don't want to do acoustic show the way i want it, i will not even try to go see what you actually put together"), unnecessarily. :shrug:

I never said he did. I was simply agreeing with him, based on what I heard. Again, not really that hard a concept.

And how did you reach that conclusion, after I repeatedly wrote that I was basing my opinion on what I heard?

Look, Elle, I don't think Lindsey Buckingham is infallible as a musician. I have followed the man for decades and absorbed as much as I can from him for my own purposes. He is my favorite guitarist. No one else does what he does.

But he makes missteps, and he has made several lately. You didn't like the This Is 40 songs. I do. I disagree with you, but I don't give you a hard time about it. You like the crappy, synthetic sound of OMS, I don't. I could tell you your ears need cleaning, if you like the horrible sonics on that awful recording, but I don't. It doesn't sound good to me. If I had been at the show, I would have loved to see the man doing his thing. But when I learned that all he was doing was replacing the backing band with pre-recorded tracks, I didn't want to waste my time. That was my decision, I stand by it, and I feel good about it.

None of this changes the fact the sound is crappy. None of it changes the fact that the production on the EP is even crappier.

Have I made myself clear?

[QUOTE=RockawayBlind;1091342]
[QUOTE=elle;1091335]where does this say that you listened to the digital release? i guess after your additional explanation quoted below i can now understand that was what you tried to say. but that was not what you said. :laugh:[/QUOTE}
I never said he did. I was simply agreeing with him, based on what I heard. Again, not really that hard a concept.

well, maybe you just look at videos on youtube, without sound... perhaps because your sensitive musician's ears cannot stand the crappiness of it.:D but most people also listen to stuff they are looking at on youtube. :shrug:


look, you may want to re-read some of your posts before pressing submit. i respect your opinions and love reading many of them, but the way they come across sometimes is.... well, let's just say, not very nice and not in the least respectful of others. :nod:

To me, you did. And I agree with you on THE SOUND of OMS, not on the artistic quality of OMS.

For This EP, I totally agree that the agressive, metallic sound of the Ovation, or what the heck which guitar he used on Without You-sounds like a twelvestring, or has he dubbed something?- is an absolute earwar. And then that thin, empty, cold, emotionless rythmtrack. Aweful.

But I'm mellowing towards the sound of the Froomproductions. There's more life in it than I heard the first two days after release.

[QUOTE=elle;1091345][QUOTE=RockawayBlind;1091342]
Apologies if I come across as not nice. It is not my intent. However, you keep telling me I've said things I didn't (I listened to YouTube with no sound?), and I think anyone would be frustrated by that. For instance, is the fact that I omitted the word "digital" here what is throwing you off?

"However, I was careful to say what I know of the show is from the recordings and the YouTube postings, and what I saw there did not move me. I would have loved a completely different approach. And I bet I would be saying the same thing, had I gone to a show. It's possible to enjoy the performance when you're at the venue and then not like the recording or video of it."

Because, from what I read there, it's pretty clear I didn't like the "recordings." Or is there a better way to say that? Or are you, by any chance, aware of any non-digital recordings of this particular tour? Because I would be willing to bet there are none. You tell me, though.

You seem to want everybody to agree everything Lindsey does is absolutely great. The problem is there are no absolutes in this great world. Lindsey makes bad calls. And going on tour by himself doing exactly what he had been doing all along, but without a band, was a bad call, in my opinion. And the sound suffered for it. Go Your Own Way sounds horrible, for instance, without a band. However, he could have salvaged the song if he had cared to rearrange it as a quiet solo performance. He chose not to.

Or are you going to argue with me that Lindsey has a track record of lazy setlists? That he plays the same old crap again and again. That, especially with FM, there is no variation even in the sequencing of the songs? That as a solo performer he still dedicates half the show to FM songs when all he really would need to do is two or three?

You seem to think he's infallible. And the only person I know who is that is the pope. ;)

And I'll add something else about lazy setlists: When Lindsey toured for UTS, he sounded surprised when someone asked him why the set included nothing from Out of the Cradle. He blamed it on Brett, as I recall.

I know Cradle was a commercial flop, but if he means what he says about artistic integrity, there should have been a couple of songs from his solo masterpiece. He came close with SWS, but he has yet to top that album as a solo artist. So why ignore it, if art is what drives you?

So far I have been to three shows on this tour Philadelphia, NYC and Newark. Here is my seven cents.

IMO the band did not sound stale at all. Is the set list crammed with songs that have become concert staples for them?.....Yes. That said when I went to see McCartney, Aerosmith, Clapton and Petty and countless others, I wanted to hear the familiar songs. For the most part, concert attendees like/love the particular performers for these songs. Nostalgia? Possibly. But I for one do not see anything wrong with nostalgia.

But back to the Mac. I have loved this band since I first heard them in 1977. Though my attraction to Stevie outweighs my attraction to Lindsey, I still greatly admire the man and his own special powers. Granted I was up front for all three shows but each performance for me was electrifying in it's own way. And Stevie's voice has lost NONE of it's power. Is it different.... sure... but I recently touched base with an old friend of mine from the early 1980's who had a cassette recording of us just screwing around and you know what, neither of us sound like we did on that tape. Stevie sang wonderfully at each show. Sara was magnificent and it's not a go to song for me. But the way she is performing it on this tour is beautiful. And can we talk about JOHN F*****G MCVIE!!!!!!!! That bass playing was extraordinary.....pluck away John pluck away! During GYOW it was making my heart smile! Each show was packed to the rafters so they must be doing something right. And everyone there seemed to be having a blast. OK maybe that was fifty cents worth:laugh:

thanks, apology accepted.

as a way to answer some of your questions - if you read others' reactions, there are many who misunderstood what you said. so it was not as clear as you think it was. but it's all good.

you ascribed a number of opinions to me in several of your recent posts, including this last one, that i've never expressed, so i'm not really sure why you are so surprised that others assume or extrapolate from what you say too. :shrug:

for example:
no, far from it.

if you read any of my posts about Lindsey solo or FM setlists, you would know my very strong opinions on that.

but of course i do! definitely! :laugh::laugh::laugh::laugh::laugh:

i never said any of those things, exactly the opposite, and if you carefully read my posts (as you ask for others to do with yours!) you would know that. instead you are putting forth these cliche "typical fan" judgements about my opinions.

if you asked Lindsey what i think of him, he'd probably tell you that it's very opposite of infallible :lol::lol:

Eh, Elle, I really don't ask anybody to read my posts. Frankly, if I had to read them myself, I might get bored.

The difference between what you say I said and my ascribing opinions to you is that I say "you seem to..." The English language is full of nuances, and it's easy to overlook them sometimes.

Be that as it may, I respect your admiration for my favorite guitarist. It's quite possible I might change my mind about the songs on the EP. But, no matter what, those OMS recordings (!!!) will never do it for me -- they are as bad as the guitar on Without You. Shockingly bad, to be honest. Sorry.

:lol: ha, i knew you would to try to hang your hat on those when i first read them! :laugh: :xoxo:

btw i never insisted OMS digital release production is perfect sounding but i was gonna let that slide (i don't hear production nuances that you all do, in many cases, so i don't normally comment on them). but since you keep bringing it up: what i said was his interpretations of the songs were great on OMS tour, imo. and that all out acoustic tour would not be my cup of tea, just like the type of tour he chose to do is not your cup of tea.

Come and ISA absolutely worked with the backing track, imo, i loved them! GYOW was somewhat ridiculous and especially when there would not be audience interactions, a bit sad and rushed. so yeah some songs worked perfectly electrically done completely solo, others not so much. acoustically redone GYOW would be interesting. Come or ISA not so much. so again, i hope he doesn't take your advice and does old-fashioned acoustic tour that you seem to want him to do. i read a review somewhere which said something like "LB took the concept of what a man-man show is supposed to be and turned it on its head" - it was better wording but something like that.

re sound at the shows, some venues had better sound than others (no surprise considering the variety of venues he played).

I appreciated reading this. Having been to three shows, what differences could you tell each night? Was the band doing anything significantly different/was one night stronger than the others? I find it interesting to hear about people who go to several shows of the same tour, especially when some bands tends to just go through the same motions at each city (so bad that sometimes the lead singer gets the location wrong). In fact, I haven't heard real differences in Stevie's performing of Sisters of the Moon, which is disappointing since I hoped it would evolve and change over repeated playing. I know some on this board have said that her vocal teacher has made it so her performances are very consistent night by night, which notes she goes for, which ones she doesn't (Gypsy!!!). I'm curious if you picked up on any differences in her songs.

I agree regarding Stevie. I think her voice sounded great, and I'm disappointed her studio recordings (In Your Dreams and the recent EP) in my opinion don't capture how strong her voice still is. Maybe it's that the quality of songs is much diminished when comparing to her classics. I said this in another thread: but as stale as some people think Landslide is, Stevie has been singing it wonderfully. Her tone over certain lines was beautiful. It's sad that I haven't really heard that translate in her recent studio efforts.

I thought at MSG John's bass part was too loud for the beginning part of the concert, maybe as far up to Sara. That song was most noticeable, since his sound was way too heavy.

I'm interested how Fleetwood Mac's show stacks up against the other rock classic acts: the Rolling Stones, Paul McCartney, U2, Eric Clapton, etc. They certainly aren't disappointing anyone with a 23-song setlist.

I'm sure you have nothing to worry about. He will be taking this concept to his grave now.

I'm counting on it!

:lol: you may be onto something. he did say he'll continue and expand his one man tour concept to other songs next time around (it was in response to a question why doesn't he do more SWS songs, like IOOT for example), now that he knows it's working. :thumbsup:

I think the speeches get routine for those of us who go to several of the shows/watch them on YouTube, but I agree that it doesn't take anything away from the quality of his live performance. I would have to think the majority of the people in the audience (who just go to one show) wouldn't even notice or have a problem with this. Maybe I'm wrong, but judging from other concerts I've been to, I don't think its really that common for other artists to go 'off the cuff' and change up their song intros night to night, though I think the audience interaction and off the cuff remarks varied from venue to venue on the OMS tour and I enjoyed the ones that didn't seem so formal in the set speeches.

Although I am more of a fan of Lindsey's solo work, I did enjoy seeing them together Stevie's voice sounded better live than I was expecting.

Right, the song intros are the same when Lindsey is solo, but there are other conversations . . . he actually talks to the audience a bit and listens with his huge eagle ears. He can hear things 10 rows back if he wants to. He loves to make jokes or, sometimes, he just gives a suggestive facial expression that says it all. There's a definite back and forth and spontaneity that's so much fun. It's not just about those Gods on Mt. Olympus.

Michele

There was more interaction between Stevie and Lindsey at the Garden than in Philadelphia. Sisters was the best at the Garden. I feel like they just go the extra mile for NYC for some reason. The Newark show was also better than Philadelphia and Gypsy was better at this show. I can't say what they each said verbatim, but their introductions to the songs were different....the same story..... just told differently. I also liked that for the most part it was just the four of them...and not the small army they had with them on their last go round. One thing that bothers me during World Turning when Lindsey sits on the floor and you hear "on the ground...on the ground" .....but thats minor. And so what if the horn section is really played through the use of a keyboard for Tusk. I think Mr. Tuggle would look ridiculous out front with an accordion. I for one cannot get enough of John's bass playing so it could never be too loud... lol. And you are right about concert attendees.....most are not going to multiple shows so any speeches are new to them.

I think Stevie's vocals on IYD were pretty much spot on in comparison to her "live" singing. The only song that I am not crazy about on that album is Ghosts Are Gone.....sounds like a ZZtop cover.

love that part!

what don't you like about it?

I am a weirdo who LOVES this "remix" with Lindsey's voice in that song! Gets me SO excited, not really sure why!! I know they did another kind of remix for 2003/4 shows, but then I heard this Lindsey vocal remix in Phila for his Under The Skin Tour and it seems to have worked well, because then they used it for Unleashed in 2009 and are still going with it today. I love it!! I wonder if HE put those fragments together to make it sound the way it came out?!:blob1:

The fact that it's a pre recorded backing track. At Mohegan Sun it seemed as if he was trying to lip sync to it when he comes back from the floor to the mic. His lips were off sync. I found that quite amusing.

oh duh, thanks - got it now. although it sounded like him when i first heard it (LiB maybe?), i didn't know it really is Lindsey's voice on the recording before Abbi pointed it out. i just assumed it was pre-recorded Mick. so the fact that he's on the floor while his voice is being heard is what you all don't like? i thought there was something wrong about him sitting there while Mick's playing, that maybe you all thought he should go to the back ("to the tent") like everybody else instead. :laugh:

At every FM show since 1975 when World turning was performed Lindsey always stood at the side of the stage while Mick had his solo. I like the fact that he sits on the floor. The man needs a rest. What's that song that Lindsey does on this current tour where Stevie lingers over in front of the keyboards in the dark part of the stage and does this strange ballet stretching, standing in one spot dance? There I'm thinking this would be a good time for her to go to the tent and change clothes or something.

But I don't think Lindsey is trying to give the impression that he's really singing at that point. (not like that Oh Diane video from tv). He'd do that during World Turning with in his solo show too, from the side of the stage. It's like he's just mouthing the words, even when he's far away from his mic to acknowledge what's going on center stage. It reminds me of how he mouths the words to Stand Back.

Michele

If I had to guess, I'd say he used one of his Taylors, which tend to have a lot of mid, and then put it through some ill-chosen effects to emphasize the mids even more. Or maybe he plugged one of his Renaissance guitars right into the board and drowned it in effects (the Turners are very warm-sounding, so he would have had to modify the sound with studio trickery). Had he used one of his Martins and recorded it with a condenser mic to capture the full range of the sound of the guitar, it would have sounded much better.

It sounds to me like he plugged whatever guitar he used straight into the board, rather than micing it up. That could just be because of effects applied after, though. But to me the tinniness and the almost 'clicky' sound of it reminds me of a direct signal.

And I think it's probably two guitars playing in different voicings, much like it's done live.

SOTM from the nosebleed seats with excellent audio

You reminded me that I think Lindsey's among the worst lip syncers I have ever seen. Thank heavens he always sings live in his concerts; he's just awful in the band's music videos, especially Little Lies and Seven Wonders, even Big Love. Rather funny, considering how often some singers do resort to lip syncing, and sell that their concerts are actually 'live.'

Stevie's also terrible. She's gotten better over the years but she's still awful.

It's like no one ever told them that you're supposed to actually sing when you are lip syncing. It's as if they just dramatically mouth the words, which is obviously won't appear realistic.