You bet! ;) Your sincerity is much appreciated. :laugh:

CarneVaca--

Even though you apparently know what I'm going to say before I post, I will repeat the bottom line once again, even though it has been expressed by others in this thread several times. This is a privately owned board-- if you don't like it, just leave. I do not spend my time thinking about how to make this the best forum possible for you personally. Hopefully, that doesn't hurt your feelings. The current set up and management of the Ledge is something that I am comfortable with continuing and I see no reason to change it at this time. You (and a few others) clearly disagree and that is duly noted. I do not feel that you speak for the vast majority and I also strongly feel that I can have rules on my own website if I want.

With respect to your red words and capital letters in the original post, I did not see the humor in it. I found it to be ordering me to do something which I have no intention of doing and it was, in my opinion, rude. There are more polite and tactful ways of bringing up an issue. A few months back someone politely did request a few less stickies at the top of one of the Ledges. I reviewed them and thought a few were outdated, so I unstuck them. A reasonable request was met with prompt compliance. I feel the stickies that are up there now are all still relevant so, for the time being, they will stay. I would like to add that pressing your 'space bar' will jump down a page anyway in most browsers so they should be simple to bypass.

- Marty

P.S.-- I am going to go now and stick a few dozen more threads for you. (THIS is a joke- the mood surely needs to be lightened here.)

Mutual decision? How can that be when the thread creator is here protesting the deletion?

You must feel you do, or you would have just ignored the whole thing, no?

My 3 cents on this whole issue:

1. There are too many stickies, but I'm sure I'll survive scrolling down a page.

2. I don't believe that threads should be locked unless things REALLY get out of hand.

3. I don't believe that threads should be deleted unless they contain offensive and innapropriate content.

4. I don't believe that the Burnish thread had anything offensive or innapropriate in it.

5. I'm ecstatic that Zeps and Sharks hit the high road, it was an eye sore. But I would not have deleted it, just locked it.

6. Release that bad karma, boy and girls.

The threads concerning Mick's site and board were allowed, because it involved very honest criticisms that fans had in regards to the way things were being run. These were people who paid their money to join the fanclub, and then were not being allowed to voice their opinions on how it was run.

It was felt that these paying members should be allowed to voice their opinions somewhere. And that others who were contemplating joining the club, had a forum in which they could ask questions and express concerns about it.

And if you'll recall, it was stated even then that derogatory comments made about the posters on Mick's board weren't acceptable here, and the moderators here stepped-in when comments made by posters on Mick's board, were being quoted here.

You saw stars? I wouldn’t wanna have to clean up that mess. How did everyone else fair? :shocked:

See, this is why being a moderator is so frustrating. There were people upset because they felt JS wasn't defending Tracy enough, and now there are people upset that JS is showing her favoritism. The truth is you can NEVER please EVERYONE. I feel your pain, JS!

*thud*

Darling, where have you been all my life?

Marty, you sure have spent a considerable amount of time inviting me to leave. You have the power if you don't want me around. Why keep sounding the same note?

All this because I questioned a couple of things on the site? Is that not allowed?

Have I said otherwise? You throw sarcastic comments at me saying you "hope you don't hurt my feelings" when you can't seem to take a little criticism. I asked some questions, is all.

Marty, I accept what's humorous to me is not humorous to everyone. If the bolding and colors bother you, can't you disable them? You have the power. And as far as my ordering you, come on. You can't possibly believe that I actually seriously was trying to order you. I find that baffling.

With all due respect, I violated nothing in the FAQ. So I find it somewhat baffling that you are taking issue with something I posted because it doesn't meet your standards of good manners. I can accept it doesn't, but for you to make a point of it strikes me as unnecessary. I broke no rules.


:laugh: :laugh: :laugh:

I see there's nothing from you about this statement because you're always right.

I did, you said it and I quoted it back to you.


Take it, leave it, read it, don't read it, put me on your ignore function....... but you don't control my right to post when I think something is wrong. You also don't control this site, where there are stickies placed, how many there are or how Marty and the moderators run this site.

I don't need to stick around, I've been around and like I said, probably a lot longer than you. You've been back peddling for a few posts now. The only point you've made is showing everyone that you have no respect for the site owner and you're not willing to back down and think you can bully other posters, old or new into submission. For someone who doesn't like to take orders you do a good job of ordering other people around.

I don't think Marty's taking any orders from you anytime soon, but as I stated in my other post it bothers many people to see site owners harrassed and disrespected on their own site.

HEE!!!

<3<3<3<3 :thumbsup:

Ok I didn't chime in before and still don't exactly know what was said in Burnish.

But I will say this:

I hate censorship for the most part. I belong to a "Rush" board and it makes this board look like "In The Meantime" (that was for u dissention & carne).

Unless there's libel, major insults (which sometimes is fun to read), or threatening statements being made I don't see why a thread should be locked. (having said that I did not see what you guys are talking about in the questioned thread) Anyone remember the Bob Welch thread in 1996?

I wanted to chime in because I've been here forever and I like all u guys. Even ChiliD! The way I survive these boards is my golden rule. Don't take anything personally. The internet is like a car, people get real cocky when they don't have to face other people directly. So they have extra Bravado. That's really not the case on this board. But we are not children, so I think it should be more of a group effort on the part of the older ledgies to control the censorship. And if something is locked it's always nice to give the supporting cast and explanation, and hopefully it's a good one. So if someone could post what was said about Burnish or PM me I'd appreciate it. It's our FM community and we should be able to fight, harmonize and get over it together.


Now repeat after me.
In The Meantime is a Masterpiece! :nod:

A mutual decision made within the group of moderators.


I have seen in the past what happens if you don't feel your comments and criticisms are being handled or attended to. So I deemed it best to offer an explanation. Owed, or otherwise.

As moderators, we can't help it that we can't please all 2,384 registered members here, but we try our best to tackle issues when they arise, and we try our best to make sure that things run as smoothly as possible.

Constructive suggestions and concerns are always welcome, but, as has been said... if anyone has fundamental issues with the way things are run here, and are displeased by the decisions we make, they're more than welcome to find another message board on which to post.

Not everyone is fond of The Ledge, and we realize that. But there are several other wonderful message boards in the Mac community (though they each have their own set of rules and guidelines, too), so there are plenty of options out there. :)

I guess you missed the constant expletives and the constant libelous accusations that were grounds for a lawsuit if Mick and his buddy who was running the site at the time wanted to pursue it.

No, I don't recall. My memory must be failing me. Because I saw thread after thread full of gratuitous insults, libelous accusations and expletives.

You didn't, I didn't say it, and you haven't quoted it back to me. Where's the quote?

Right back acha.

I am well aware of that. You, however, seemed to think you could do whatever you wanted and insist on discussing the Burnish situation after the moderator asked you not to. Don't you feel a little silly taking this line of argument when you were clearly so wrong?

Whatever, dude. You've made the point, and I remain unimpressed by it.

I'm not sure what back peddling is.

I have not ordered anyone around. Marty has addressed me, and I've addressed him. Why do you keep getting involved? Were you elected arbitrator?

So now, not only have you been around longer than I have, you know me so well, but you also know what all these other many people are thinking?

I keep reading that, Johnny. You guys have the power.

We have not indiscriminantly 'invite' people to leave the board. *Very* few people have ever been banned. But it doesn't seem to me that you understand that the entire board, its management, and what is acceptable around here or not is going to change for *you*. It's simply not.

I can take criticism. If I could not, this thread would have been deleted after the initial post and you would have been banned. The moderators have not banned people that just disagree with us. I think you know this.

Of course they could be disabled, but is that the answer? I am sure that you know proper net etiquette and capital letters with red text plus the tone and wording involved is just shouting. *Please* re-read the message and consider it from the perspective of someone that did not find the humor it in. I think you could reasonably understand why one might find it insulting.

Did I say you broke the FAQ? Has this thread been locked and the 'discussion' squelched? Have you received any strikes from this thread? 'No' on all three.

I thought that one was pretty good. I have a long list of things to do tonight that, surprisingly, do not involve The Ledge. So that's all for now.

- Marty

I didn't state that I know what ALL other people are thinking? I stated that many people, like some of the ones who don't post but read these boards. Those same people might not post so you might not know them. Those people who you may not know don't like to see site owners harassed and disrespected on their own sites. I'm one of those people and I'll get involved aka voice my opinion, anytime I want to.

Honestly, if people aren't going to stop lurking and come post, no one really cares what they think, I would imagine. If you're not an active participant, you have no right to complain. Same as with voting; don't bitch about the government if you haven't voted.

Au contraire. I understand it. I understand it quite well.

I guess we disagree. It's only one more thing. ;)

Yeah, me too.

Seriously, man, you don't seem to understand half of what I say. I said, "all these other many people," and that is quite different from "all." Wouldn't you agree?

Well, I question where you're getting this, but it's moot, because the owner wasn't harassed or disrespected.

Do you wear a cape and fly?

Damn good point! Wish I'd made it. ;)

Anyhoo, I'm outta this thread. Don't pull me back in.

I have a long list of things to do tonight that, surprisingly, do not involve The Ledge. So that's all for now.

- Marty[/QUOTE]I know what he’s getting ready to do and not just once. I wish I were young again. What the heck I’ll give it another whirl. “Peace everyone.” :blob2:

Alright, I did check in again but that is really it for the night. I just wanted to comment that I thought this was VERY funny. Best laugh of the day. For the record though, it's not on the list-- not even once.

- Marty

Fascinating. Is there something in the FAQ I missed about not being able to voice an opinion or complain until you have X number of posts? Is that number, 100, 300, 3300 or 7900? Johnny, Marty....when does a poster pass and go and have the right to voice their opinion or complain?

You may not care, but as I have explained these forums are not just for the people who participate, they are for anyone who is a fan and cares to read them. There have been many fans who have dropped out and into lurker mode over the years, it's no surprise. There are also hundreds of fans who read these forums on a regular basis and don't choose to participate, it's not mandatory.

If you or Carne or anyone else is not interested in my opinon or the opinions of people who don't have the X number of posts that has not been clarified, you have a choice to not read them or not respond to them. You and Carne and any other poster do not get to decide who has a right to voice an opinion or complain. At least not the last time I looked at the FAQ.

As shocking as this might seem to some, there are many people who do post here and won't get involved posting on this forum in threads like this because of the kind of reaction they're greeted with.

No, I was speaking towards your suggestion that there are many people who do not post but also don't like what goes on here. Why should anyone care what they think unless they post? Sounds pretty easy to understand.

Stop dressing an indefensible argument in a Gucci dress, because no matter how pretty it may look, there's nothing to it.

In your opinion, and therein lies the problem.



Yes, did I forget to mention that? :laugh:

You may not care but just as I am not speaking for everyone who posts or reads these forums, there are others who are reading this and do care. There's no reason I can't voice what other people are feeling even if they don't want to or are afraid to participate for fear of the reaction they'll get if they disagree with certain posters. This thread is a perfect example of that.

I'm not dressing anything up, I'm only trying to state that just because people are not posting that they're upset, it doesn't mean they aren't out there.

Seriously, dude, that's more like it. You've done little but fight with people since you started posting. Was that the impression you wanted to make?

Why not take this opportunity to start anew?

Um . . . what I don't get is why people don't understand that communicating an opinion on something can be more about how it is communicated than what the actual opinion is.

People have the right to their opinions and to express them. But it is another thing entirely to be passive aggressive, discounting, and verbally abusive in expressing your thoughts on a particular issue.

Please note: I am not directing this at anyone, it is mearly a general comment on how people communicate with one another.

Please note: I'm not directing this at you (which is to say I am, since you were really directing yours at me but wouldn't admit it) but why restart this whole discussion now? Let sleeping dogs lie, no?

I would like to post on Travis & George's board! Could somebody tell me its location? :wavey:

I see your mood has lightened from earlier today, that's certainly helping this thread.


I posted about what I thought was wrong. I didn't think I had to earn any brownie points before I could take on a serious topic. Before telling me about what I've done wrong, you might go back and read my post to Mari and then the response you gave me. I didn't need the sarcastic remark if you disagreed with my opinion.

I don't want to fight with anyone but just as you have your strong feelings about censorship and other issues, I have mine about respect and harassment. Somehow that got lost in all this tit for tat bickering. Hopefully we can agree to disagree in the future without 20 posts going back and forth.

This is an honest question... in what way was Mad4Stevie "re-starting" the whole discussion?
She posted two minutes after your latest response to ThinLine... it's not like the conversation had died out or had gone dormant. :shrug:

Travis & George don't have a message board. :wavey:

It was winding down. But I'll be glad to keep it going. ;)

Another honest question: Did you believe for a second she wasn't directing her comments at me?

Here's my honest answer: At this point, it looks to me that there are about a half dozen people she could be directing her comments towards.

And that's a pretty predictable answer, Johnny. God forbid you agree with me.

When I agree with you, I admit it. ;) And while she very well may have been commenting on your behaviour, she also very well may have been commenting on several other people's behaviour. So I called it as I see it. :shrug:

By the way, you've gotten quite good at predicting people's responses lately... this must all be rather tedious to you now. Perhaps the old cliché is true... "familiarity breeds contempt." :shrug:

NO, I was not directing this at you - if I direct anything at someone specific, I usually quote them. But you do seem to know an awful lot about what everyone else's intentions are here :rolleyes: This is not about you. I was only making a general comment about how people state their opinions. However, it does make me wonder why you are so defensive.

It appears that no one can even post a general comment, disclaimer or not, without ruffling someone's feathers. :rolleyes:

And why can't I give my opinion on the tone of this thread? You appear to be doing the very thing that you are accusing others of doing - stopping the communication of ideas.