I love Sinatra and have dozens of his albums. I am familiar with Iglesias (only have one album, though). To my ears, there is no connection between their styles and Say Goodbye or their songs and Say Goodbye. They are quite different genres and, to me, they rise and fall on their on merits.

As for being a shipper, I don't think that makes you like a song that is otherwise stultifying. You can imagine shipper content in any song written by Stevie or Lindsey. That doesn't mean half of those songs aren't dogs. You can be romantic without being deaf.

Whether I liked the song or not, the live performance was rather awkward. I found it both dull and uncomfortable. You'd think where there was tension there wouldn't also be boredom, but that wasn't really the case. I was unnerved. Stevie seemed like she was as well. I actually liked some of Lindsey's introductions to the song a lot more than I liked the performance itself. Michele

I was just thinking that Sad Angel is probably going to be an awful, treacly song that sounds awful live. It's going to go right up there with Sweet Girl.

I hope I'm proven wrong, but I think there's probably an at least 80% chance of doom. And please don't let them think of some creepy way to perform it together. You can't force these things people. Make it organic Linds.

Michele

Maybe it will be really up-tempo and catchy.

Hoping for the best. With a title like that, what else can you do?

And I'm clinging for dear life to what Stevie said about SYW vs Unleashed vs Live 2013, regarding them not doing the same benign thing and actually just going up to play and have fun.

i never went away ;). but you guys, i really really don't like that style of music, so please don't make me listen to Sinatra or Iglesias father or Aznavour to try to find songs that would make it clear to you. does schlager-like help?

see? your mom knows!

LB said once that as he ages he'd hope that his music would become more age-appropriate like Sinatra's was or something like that and this song may be an example of his try in that direction, whether it was intentional or not. luckily he didn't stray much more in that direction and stayed more true to himself instead. :D

"Say Goodbye" is a very special song to my sister. I introduced it to her, she watched the Soundstage version on YouTube. I thought she would be touched by the SnL relationship and seeing their performance. But, to her it represents the passing of her 37 year old son to cancer. She still cries anytime she hears it.

It definitely has nothing to do with her like or dislike of Frank Sinatra, Aznavour, or Julio Iglesias...

lol. i really hope you are wrong but i find having low expectations can sometimes work wonders! or at least you might not be too disappointed.

see that might be a part of my problem with SG. i've heard lindsey's intro at the end of NGBA from soundstage which was a perfect setup for high expectations. then i watched that video but without any sound (bunch of people in the room listening to tv and no headphones handy :shrug:), while reading all the raving comments under the video on youtube. and then i finally heard the song and thought huh? that is what these people were raving about? what a dud. sinatra. iglesias. huh????? (even if not everybody hears it ;) ).

That's why I haven't written off Miss Fantasy yet. I hope it will be uptempo and am crossing fingers for the best. But I think Sad Angel is going to tie in to her mother as well, so I'm not thinking good things about that.

When I think of Lindsey ballads, Gone Too Far is the only one that absolutely grabs me. The idea that he was aiming for something specific with these new songs is what scares me. If they were just songs he had, I wouldn't think so much about it, but because he wrote them with a purpose in mind, I think they're going to stink. I don't think Say Goodbye is bad on the album. And I do like the two Goodbye songs ending SYW in general.

Michele

when you put it that way... yeah, scary.

Lindsey ballads. Gone Too Far is gorgeous :thumbsup: :xoxo: :nod:. definitely on my list of requests. Walk A Thin Line is too, just the arrangement on Tusk sucks. it deserves a proper makeover.

Certainly, if you tie the song into something specific in your life it's going to change it for you. I think I feel that way about the entire Mirage album, taking it beyond the quality of the songs and into the personal memories they invoke for me.


Oh, Sinatra wouldn't even record Say Goodbye. It wasn't his style at all. I'm proud to say he did record one of Sonny's songs: Bang Bang (My Baby Shot Me Down).

Michele

^^ :lol: Very well put!

I love him dearly, but I think that's often the key thing that trips him up! Imo goes along with over producing songs - sometimes he needs to learn to let well enough alone.

Yes! Set your expectations low and you won't be disappointed :nod: hehe

I'm really nervous about Sad Angel too...I'm anxious to hear these two songs. You never know though, positive thinking! At the very least Miss Fantasy better be up tempo, they can't give us two sappy songs...:shrug:

yup. as is SG :p (imo of course!).

of course you can. or you can be both. or neither. ;)

I don't know why you'd analyze why another person doesn't like a song anyway. If you want to break apart why you like or dislike something, I can understand getting to the root of that in your head. But I wouldn't try to analyze why you like a song. Aha, you're really into WATL: let me tell you why you like that.

Michele

interesting! if i do that, i have to say that i don't know why, actually. in cases when someone states their personal opinion as the universal truth, i do feel the need to deconstruct where they are coming from.

i'd love to read your analysis of why i love WATL! :nod:

so you got me thinking about it now... why do i like WATL? good question. b/c i love the song, although i don't really like either version on extended Tusk CD - if i had my way i would make some kind of perfect combination of those 2 versions and get rid of tons of embellishments in arrangement that just distract from the beauty of that song. Deerhunter version is sublime, if only LB was singing on it. so i must love some version of WATL that i made up in my mind.

of course there was that snippet in Chicago Winery. that sounded like i imagined it would... beautiful even though it was haphazard and stripped down, with audience harmonizing.

also, when i first heard Tusk all the way through, WATL just hit me, and i had to listen to it 10 times in a row immediately. and then again. and again. for days in a row. i just couldn't believe this gem of a song existed for 30 years and i've never heard of it.

I used to listen to side four of the Tusk album to fall asleep to. I would just be dozing off when Tusk would jarr me awake momentarily. But then I'd casually drift back into dreamland and rarely ever got to hear Never Forget. Honey Hi, Beautiful Child and Walk A Thin Line were all such lullabies for me during those times. Eventually when I put the same collection on tape I replaced Tusk with Brown Eyes and those 5 songs were my sleeping pill.

That's the great thing about buying albums Elle, in that you will hear many gems that never saw the light of day on anyone's radio station.

"Grotesque", that's the best word to define it. And FM live version is even worst than SN. I miss the power that song had live in 83.
Sara
Dreams
Gypsy
Second Hand News

FM is one of those bands where whether a song sounds good or not live depends almost entirely on the collective energy in a performance. Landslide sometimes sounds fantastic live, other times awful. The same can be said of Dreams, Go Your Own Way, or any number of their songs.

But, in general, the live versions of songs that often fail to spark for me on a playback include "Don't Stop," "Gypsy," "Say You Love Me" (as much as it hurts me to type that)--in other words, some of the big hits that sounded great in the studio but benefit from flawless vocals and sophisticated arrangements.

Then there are those songs that really hit during a live show but when heard played back might sound less, uh, wonderful. Consider the Mirage concert video performance of "Love in Store," which had the crowd riled up and where, instrumentally at least, the bad was cooking. But Christine's vocals there were pretty awful on the playback. I've thought that way about versions of "Stand Back" and "Go Your Own Way," too.

"Hold Me" has been mentioned above but I think the live version I heard of it was charming.

But I thought SYLM was a highlight of the Dance tour. Maybe because of the collective energy you mentioned.

Michele

So true! "Cooking" is the right word choice.

mitzo, respectivelly we are all entitled to our opinions. I'm curious why you describe it as groteque.

IMO, it sounds nothing like it was originally intended in 83, but I don't find anything repulsive about it.

Surely, Stevie and Mick and millions of fans that love it live don't find it grotesque. If the band felt they couldn't pull off a decent version of it, it would have been dropped from the setlist by now.

Shorten these songs...
 

Shorten Not That Funny, World Turning, and I'm So Afraid.....cut those solos WAY down....and they would all work better in concert.

Dreams live never has gotten the moody, mysterious vibe that the recorded version has.

I know many like SB live but not me, for sure. What I hear is a hideous wall of thudding noise instead of instrumental music, and a load of winded hoarse off-key monotone bellowing and shouting from Stevie. It embarrasses me and I cannot imagine how, if she has ever seen or heard it played back, she could ever do that again.

Adding to the Stand Back discussion, it deserves to go if only to include one of the dozens of great songs that are overlooked to play it. Toss in Go Insane too, ditch it for something like Save Me a Place. The band and definitely Stevie have outgrown the song, I love the Wild Heart version, but past that tour, it has really not been done justice for many years, soundstage being an exception.

I have fun with SB at concerts, but since this is FM I'd love for both of their solo songs to be replaced with FM songs that deserve some love. I love Save Me a Place, I doubt they'd replace Go Insane with that one ;) But there are dozens of songs I'd love to hear!

Side note, I've been watching different live performances recently because of this discussion and yes, are some better than others, of course - But, I'm starting to feel bad about citing bad performances :o Ultimately, when you are there, at the concert, I think you can't help but get caught up in the moment! I guess what I'm trying to say is I know I'm going to have a blast regardless of what they play, and I know they'll sound great :p

Is there any point... other than their making money?
 

Stevie hasn't seemed really interested in a Fleetwood Mac venture (whether recording or touring) since 1997's "The Dance" enterprise. Maybe it's because Christine left. Maybe it's because she's now the only girl/woman. Maybe it's because of computers or the internet or piracy or because "no one buys albums anymore" and it "breaks [my] heart." Maybe it's because she hasn't been relevant outside her fan base for so long. She just doesn't attract new listeners in large numbers anymore because her lyrics are so obtuse and self-involved, and she's practically incapable of telling/singing stories that non-fans can understand (since about 1985, maybe 1989 if one is being generous).

I've been watching old footage, and compared to what they once were, they're just not very tight as a band--MUSICALLY--anymore. Their timing is pretty awful. If it weren't for Lindsey, they wouldn't be able to hold it together. I saw them three times on the so-called "Unleashed" tour, which was anything but "unleashed." The performances I saw, including Madison Square Garden, were plodding, bloated, worn and drawn out. By the end of each show I saw, the audience was talking to each other more than they were watching the show. And a LOT of people were saying how they should never be allowed to play MSG again.

The set list for the 2013 tour would have to be pretty far-out and unusual for me to shell out the exorbitant amount of money it takes to score a decent ticket. And even then, do I really want a good seat to see a worn-out band whose members can barely function as a unit?

For God's sakes, they are in their 60s and missing Christine. For their age, they are doing really well.

Yes, I agree...but I also agree with blemelin that Stevie seems disinterested and going through the motions on most songs....but then kicks it up a notch for SB and GDW.

and that's the only thing I agree with on that post. I still love the band live b/c they still rock!

Fair enough...I don't completely agree with you, however I do notice a difference in the way Stevie tackles SB and delivers it with Mac vs. Solo.

The Live in Chicago solo dvd was awesome and Stevie delivered a powerful performance of this song and many, many other tunes.

Which leads me to question why SN gives 100% for her solo gigs and barely just goes through the motions with FM. These are her songs, one would think that she would still want to reach near perfection performances regardless of whom was backing her.

Agreed! I think of the dance tour arrangement/performances as exceptions to the decades of live performances of the song. Something about the piano in the original doesn't translate to the electric keyboard live. The piano drives the song, so if that isn't clicking...

I really enjoy the live version so much more than the recording. The recording is way too slow.

Plus, it's hilarious to watch Lindsey singing along and acting up with it onstage. Especially on "give me a little sympathy" when he beats his chest. LOL.

That is cute. Michele

I can't think of a horrible live song, however somebody needs to tell Lindsey to knock off the psychobabble during his banter. I'm wanna see a RAWK show, not hear what you learned from your therapist. Get on the mic, tell the Eagles to go F**K themselves, and play IKINW.

Brown Eyes did not translate to the stage unfortunately. :distress:

Not That Funny was utterly obnoxious live. :eek:

I don't know that I would agree any Fleetwood Mac songs are "horrible" performed live, but I'd agree that *many* individual performances are lacking in energy, enthusiasm and interest.

Typically it's Stevie's songs that fall into this category, but the blame does not fall with the song, but rather the performers and musicians not executing the songs with any desire to impress.

Hehehe :thumbsup::thumbsup:. Although i thought only Nancy recorded it (?). Her version is the best, the arrangements and her voice bring so much depth.
I love Sonny because he wasn't mainly a songwriter but he wrote some of the most legendary songs of all time.

Say You Love Me is absolutely a piano driven pop-rock song. You can hear very well the chord changes and everything. One of the reasons it's one of my favorite Mac songs is because of the unforgiving hard piano.

Now the single version is more guitar/drums driven, but still enought piano. :cool:

Oh yeah. That was even the title of Frank's album: She Shot Me Down. It was great.

Michele

I never liked "Love in Store" live that one year. On album, it wasn't that spectacular anyway, but it was certainly possible to get more of that texture on stage, and they didn't bother. They blew it; they really threw it away. Christine came down heavy on the B3 (as if it were an "I'm So Afraid" dirge), Mick made a boneheaded decision to pile-drive the tempo, and the three singers didn't connect at all harmonically on the chorus. They should have substituted something else for "Love in Store" if no one was going to put any effort into it.

They were all high--at least that's how the vocals sounded.