Wow, that is really interesting about the Say You Will cover. I would have never thought about that.

Now that I'm looking at the cover, I think its interesting that John and Mick are completely joined by their hands and neither touch Stevie or Lindsey in any way. Then, Stevie and Lindsey's arms are definitely touching but they are not intertwined. The crazy and analytical writer in me apologizes for this random observation... but I just think it kinda demonstrates the two relationships. Mick and John: the most reliable link in the chain. Stevie and Lindsey: always connected in their independent way with just enough room between them for some friction to start.

....I am ridiculous.

And upside down too. Joined, but not eye to eye. Heads in opposite places. Facing different directions.

That's why I wonder about Double Suicide. Were they inspired by the movie itself or did they just see the picture and say "that's us, exactly!"

Michele

If they choose to make another Fleetwood Mac album, I think the key to creating a cohesive album is to pick a theme and stick with it, kind of like a thread running through all of the songs. "Tusk", as wildly erratic as it was, still managed to sound like a band project in my opinion. The songs all join together in some way, whether it be subject matter or sequencing.

"Say You Will" was sequenced in a way that sort of said, 'now this is Stevie's turn, now Lindsey's' and there's not that sense of unity that there is in "Tusk", which really is the only album I feel I can compare with the former, because of length and creative styling.

There were too many different genres and stylings going on in "Say You Will" for it to be a real flowing listen. Plus, the order of songs really threw me off. Like Michele mentioned, for a start the placement of "Running Through The Garden" and then "Silver Girl" completely puts off any listener.

I also think Lindsey and Stevie should have harmonised on all of the songs. That way the Mac sound is more prominent, and the sounds aren't so disjointed, because Stevie could be the link between experimentalism and the classic sound the band has. The album should have dropped about four songs - "Come" (I love it, but as Stevie refused to contribute on it, it's more suited to a solo venture), "Peacekeeper", "Murrow Turning Over In His Grave" and the dreaded "Silver Girl".

Funny-- I thought of that when I was walking away from my computer. There sure is a lot of (probably unintended) symbolism all over Fleetwood Mac, but this cover is definitely a new way to think of it.

The money I'd pay to sit down and drink tea by a fire with La Nicks.... I have about ten thousand questions to ask. I'd put the cover on my list!

I've always thought this! Glad someone else thinks so too. If she'd done it this way round we may not all be clamouring for a new solo record as much because we'd have had new material in 2001, 2003 and 2009 (if Soundstage can be counted)? Crystal Visions just annoys me. She should have just released the videos dvd with an accompanying proper documentary or live performance rather than the cd hits collection with it's very weird tracklisting! That said, of course own it - but I only bought it for the dvd!

It's Gold. Certified in 1997. Although actual sales [last I saw] where no were near 500k.

Hasn't the RIAA lowered the standard for gold and platinum status?

I think Christine's effect on how the other two interacted was at least as big on tour & onstage as it was in in the studio. From Tusk to Tango, anyway, I tend to believe Stevie wasn't around often enough for Christine's buffer function to have worked much. And the bits of things we have of studio work from the old days indicate to me that Chris & Lindsey (& Lindsey & Mick) were the sympatico pair, not Stevie & Lindsey. In old footage, I don't see Stevie & Lindsey coming together on any level (including the fan-favorite Angel footage): musical, personal, even logistical. I think he mostly ignored her, believing probably that she had very little to contribute to his particular concerns in a recording studio.

All evidence supports this. In the Fleetwood Mac studio, Stevie was by accounts the little girl squirreling away in her fairy garden, with only occasional (& fruitless) attempts to command any attention. Chris & Lindsey, conversely, sound like co-writers & bandmates on a dozen or more tracks.

To me, that's a little bit like putting the cart before the horse. Fleetwood Mac changed the sound of Stevie's music -- in drastic ways. You would never have heard a Dreams or a Gold Dust Woman or an Angel or a Gypsy treatment on any of Stevie's work with friends or session players. Fleetwood Mac's Appalachianisms (& its English blues) were the chocolate into which Stevie dipped her banana.

(I had to work that banana in there again somehow.)

Lindsey's statement was:

I don't know what to say to that except to point out that though he can certainly be aggressive, Lindsey has spent a lot of time tempering the aggression out of people's music himself.

I love his production and I'm tired of all of that angry version Smile At You talk and I do not agree with it, but . . . honestly. If he confronted me with such a comment, I would throw that in his face.

Michele

This is a fascinating discussion.

But, what about Buckingham Nicks? By all practical purposes, the two did collaborate on those songs. Unless you believe that Stevie had no say whatsoever and handed her songs to Lindsey and that was that. Also, I can hear the same sort of quality in Stevie's BN tracks that would later emerge as the new FM sound. In that regard, LB's fingerprints left an indelible mark on her songs that certainly would never be matched by any cohorts to come.

Also, I can see your point about Christine, but given LB's history with Stevie (and given Christine's music expertise), one could argue Stevie pulled more rank with Lindsey prior to their joining FM. Then, Christine's pedigree threw Stevie's personal credibility out the window. (No wonder Nicks was peeved at World Turning, her world had indeed turned.)

I could see Nigel Godrich, Jon Brion, Ethan Johns, Daniel Lanois producing.
But I hope they don't self-produce or Lindsey-produce.

Time for something new - a whole new sound.

Otherwise, I'm afraid - it'll just be more of the same.

To me, the tracking of Tusk was horrendous. "Over & Over" was an atrocious opening tune, it really should've CLOSED one of the sides. It's almost as if you should play the songs in reverse order...kind of how the whole mixing sessions went. I can't recall if it was Ken or Richard, but one of them said that they had a great mix, then Lindsey had them to do exactly the opposite of what they'd done. I'm intrigued to hear what Ken & Richard's initial mixes were like...I'll bet they were more "commercial" sounding than what Tusk ended up being. And, probably would've gone over a whole lot better.

With Say You Will, it just seems like when they cut it down from a proposed 2 disc set, they just deleted out the unused songs and left the running order. The "WTWCT"/"Murrow" transition sounds like there should've been a Stevie song in between (and at one point there probably was). And, later in the album, there are three Stevie songs in a row...those sound like there might have been a Lindsey song in between somewhere.

Wow.a new cd,I remember from some of Stevie's interviews earlier this year say she wants to slow down for awhile ,backoff on touring any other things after this tour was over which i thought this tour was going to end after the first leg.personally I guess things change,I have no idea what she and FM are doing now ,but I hope they are taking a break to get some R&R. before going to europe in october.Yes If Christine records on the new cd, that will be awesome, I just want to hear her voice again with FM again.

I don't see a new Fleetwood Mac album happening unless, sadly, Buckingham wants to do another one.

I got the impression that he is the one that most wants to do a new album. :shrug:

Speaking of new albums, whatever happened to the big re-release of Rumours to coincide with the tour???

He is the one that every night of the tour said "there's no new album - YET."

The latest we hear is a September release. But believe it when you see it.

Indeed... :shrug:

Cycles. With Christine gone Stevie pulls more rank now. I bet Lindsey doesn't see it that way, but he had more leverage before Chris left.

Michele

I would say so, one of the more interesting lines I can remember is Christine saying that Stevie got her feelings hurt sometimes because while they were still working on the instrumentation, Stevie wanted to start singing and they would tell her that they were not ready for vocals yet. So, Stevie really had nothing to do.

And Stevie said that sometimes she would be in the sound studio and they would start working on a musical part together and forget about her for hours.

I always loved Stevie's joke about Lindsey working on Tusk by himself at home, because he probably didn't want to look through the glass and get distracted by her making signs and cheerleading in the background.

This has nothing to do with music, but I always thought it a representative moment when they are all in the bleachers for the Tusk video and Stevie is standing up waving and shouting and Lindsey tugs on her dress and tells her to sit down. Christine thought that was pretty funny.

Michele

That's what I mean... it seems to be hinging on him wanting to do it. I don't see it happening, but stranger things have occured! ;)

I think they're definitely going to try. Whether or not we ever actually get an album depends on whether the band can a way to "fix" the errors of SYW. Considering I am sure they all have a very different outlook on the album.... we'll have to see what happens.

If they start taking about it and find themselves on an even keel, we should be okay.

I think this time if they were going to go into the studio to record, it would be better. Stevie hasn't released a new album in eight years, so if she writes as much as she says she does, she should have a bulk of songs. Lindsey's just released two solo albums pretty much off the trot, so he probably doesn't have plans for another any time soon, which means a new Fleetwood Mac album would get his full attention.

Strike while the iron's hot, as they say. As in, beginning of next year's as good a time as any to being to record.

And after that they can release Buckingham Nicks in 2013 and do a solo tour together.

I don't want another album from them.

BEGONE! You're not a FAAAAAAN! ;)

Interesting. Can you explain why?

I just explained it above. :lol:

^ I just feel like they're finished, y'know. :o

I don't think they've aged well as a band. I can't say I liked all of SYW, and if that album is an indication of the direction that they plan to go in if they record again, I'm not interested. I can't possibly imagine what else they could do, album-wise.

And, honestly, I don't enjoy listening to current Stevie that much. If it wasn't for her between-song chatter I would have had a hard time getting through Soundstage. Especially with Lindsey being as production-happy as he is when it comes to layering vocals and messing with pitch, I would hate for a sound like that to carry over to Stevie's songs. I could see them doing something like that in order to make her sound better.

Does this make any sense? I have to go to bed. :laugh:

That totally makes sense. Lindsey hoped (is hoping?) to take the band in an entirely different direction than before and I think it was a shock for people who don't really listen to his solo work. And Stevie's voice has definitely changed-- hell, they've all changed. So yes, to answer your question-- your argument makes a lot of sense.

I don't understand how in the time frame between "The Dance" and "Trouble in Shangri-La" Stevie's voice changed so much. It got so much more nasally, whereas her voice had been pretty much the same since 1989 before then.

It does make sense. I would like to see the band do something risky again... ala "Tusk"... and I don't mean a double album. I just mean in terms of their sound. ;)

You make perfect sense, and I think you're perfectly correct unfortunately. I think I just get so caught up on the idealistic idea that since Stevie and Lindsey's most current solo albums are the best of their respective careers, that they should be able to channel that into one hellacious Mac album. Unfortunately that's flawed logic. It's kind of like saying: I like steak. I like ice cream. So if I put ice cream on top of my steak that would be really super great! :eek:

It didn't change that much. The Dance after all was "supposedly" overdubbed in the studio.

As far as the nasal-y thing goes, she may be making an effort to sing differently. Also on "The Dance"...they had 3 or 4 nights to film it and really give it their all. I don't think she was holding back the pipes in that sense. From what I've seen and heard of "The Dance" TOUR...Stevie, to me, didn't sound nearly as good as she did on the The Dance CD/DVD.

I disagree. Lindsey is obviously the one wanting to give it another shot. He lets that be known every night of the tour. He is the one who is retreating his position in the band, agreeing to let in an outside producer, etc. Stevie has said in the media the last several years that she won't record with the Mac again without Christine, that she hated the way her songs on SYW turned out, that she hated the power shift with her being the only woman left in the band, that she doesn't think there is any point in recording new material because no one will buy it, etc etc etc. STEVIE is the one who a new album hinges on. I suspect some of this is just her spouting off, trying to steer the band and Lindsey back in a direction she's more comfortable with, and to regain some sort of feminine power in the band with Christine's absence. But will the Mac record again? I just have my doubts at this point. :(

Yes-- without a very distinct Lindsey solo sound overtaking the record. I think that most of his SYW tracks were great, but a little too much for Fleetwood Mac. This could be partially attributed to the production.... but the thing is that Tusk sounded like a Fleetwood Mac album, a joined work despite the riskiness of it.

Meh, I really really hope they pull this off.

At the same time, Stevie has been hands down the most loyal to Mac of all three of the songwriters. Even thought she really didn't need them after her solo work took off, she still made time for Mirage.... Tango in the Night...

Mick has said it before, and I believe it. I think she really does want to keep the band together. After some turbulance with Say You Will, I think she is more likely to be obstinate about getting what she wants out of a new record rather than skip out on it entirely.

I'd say Christine was the most loyal, but whoops, she's left the band. ;)

LouieLouie... what I meant by that comment about Lindsey and everything "hinging" on him is that, I believe he wants to make another Fleetwood Mac album...but let's hope it stays that way.

And Daniella...in terms of a "new" Mac album not verging too much on Lindsey-solo-ala-Tusk... That is KIND OF hard to do now...what with Lindsey and Stevie being the only two left in the balancing act. :shrug:

Christine didn't have anything tempting her away, really. Not in the 70s and 80s. Stevie had a successful solo career that Mick has called a typical "death wish" for a band.

So yeah, Christine may have been more loyal but I think Stevie's loyalty is a bigger feat.



Tusk is my favorite FM album, I think, so its not as much about keeping commercial as it is keeping a united sound. They can do whatever crazy **** they want with the next album as long as it is unified. I just think they need to hit a middle, and none of Lindsey's recent solo work has a middle. It's going to take collaboration and sacrifice on both sides... they can balance it despite Christine's absence if they try.