I think the point is that LB was the one wanting to mess with that magical formula :shrug:

No, no Jason. I was referring to the band makeup. Who was in the band. Lindsey leaving the band and the implications it might have on their success. Not how Lindsey wanted to make a sharp left from the "Rumours sound". The band was much more willing to experiment with a more alternative sound as opposed to finding a guitarist to replace Lindsey.

^^^

Ahhhh -- I see now :cool:

I think that's the key here. I don't think Stevie has many qualms about Lindsey's actual talents as a producer, it's likely more that she has issues with the circumstances surrounding getting him to produce her songs to his potential, and to what she has in mind. It could simply be that Stevie doesn't want to have to fight tooth and nail to get her song to sound a certain way and having other producers will help her get what she wants for her songs more easily.

Maybe they can get Christine to join them for the UK shows.. (possible DVD/CD recording there)

..

One can hope anyway!

No, Stevie produced most of the Tusk tracks, in fact she got pissed at Lindsey around the Tango album cos she did all the work...

I think Lindsey as just the guitarist is quite a fungible commodity. It's Lindsey as a producer that they most wanted to keep happy. He was chief organizer on Rumours, as I believe Ken and Richard would readily attest based on all the Rumours analysis that's gone on over the years. I think the role he played in making Rumours paved the way for Tusk. Without his production on Rumours, if all he'd done is play guitar and write GYOW, I doubt he would have had the leverage with the band that would have prompted them to hand him the reigns for Tusk.

Michele

[QUOTE=jwd;762683]Makes perfect sense to me. I actually welcome and relish this condition. Lindsey did not produce the 'White Album', Rumours, and Tusk

Oh, I think most of the written and spoken evidence of the people involved in the making of Rumours would contradict this statement. Richard Dashut himself has said he always felt bad that Lindsey did not get a production credit on Rumours. Because in his words, it was Lindsey who took the point on the production of the album. I do think that all of the members and Ken and Richard all made important contribitions and there was more of democracy at that time, then what went on in later albums, but to say Lindsey did not serve as the principle sonic architect of the songs is in my opinion not accurate.

This is just my opinion and just came to me so maybe I need to think through this, but I think John Shanks brought out the "Rock Stevie" and Lindsey brings out the "soft, underlying I want to rock out, but not yet" or just a tad under that wild Stevie vocal we all know can come out. I say we need a producer that can produce Stevie in both.

Therein lies the main point, my point, and Stevie's desire for this new recording. I will cede that perhaps I should have used principal producer or lone producer of Rumours when I was referring to Lindsey's (non)role on that album.

I think we are just worlds apart in our opinions concerning our feelings about Lindsey's principal role in FM. I think Lindsey's main contribution to FM is his guitar playing, whereas you feel it is his production skills. Whether it's GYOW, "I'm So Afraid", or hell just about anything the man plays, he KICKS ASS! Ask most people what they like about Lindsey Buckingham and I'd bet my bottom dollar most people would say "he plays a mean guitar", or something along that line. I don't think many would say he is a great producer. We'll just have to agree to disagree on this one Michele.

That's an excellent point. And honestly I think that Lindsey still has issues with Stevie's celebrity and the fact that she became the "STAR" of the band. The question is not CAN he, but WILL he produce her songs the way they should be.

Not in a tizzy...just think she stretches the blanket a lot...

When Tusk was released many articles including Rolling Stone Magazine reported that it sounded like a Stevie solo album a Lindsey solo album and a Christine solo album all rolled into one.

I know you've gotta be joking here, right? Maybe I'm wrong but I don't think Stevie produced anything on TUSK and while the band was recording Tango she was on tour promoting RAL. She was hardly there for the recording of Tango.

This comment was made based on what I had written about Stevie telling Sheryl it wasn't a good idea to bring a baby on the road if she was gonna be a member of FM. And then finding out Sheryl was gonna be the opening act I found it amusing that naturally she would bring little Wyatt on the road with her. So Stevie didn't think it was a good idea for Sheryl to bring the baby if she was part of FM, but didn't have a problem with SC bringing the baby as an opening act. Get it??
The so called lie was that.
I believe that if Sheryl had never opened her big mouth to the press about joining the band she might have actually been chosen to join FM. She was probably too excited to keep the great news to herself and in doing so, jumped the gun which probably pissed off FM and she blew her chance of becoming a member. Just my opinion.

We don't know this to be fact for one. Secondly, Stevie has no control over who the opening act is. What she supposedly told Sheryl would basically just be considered some friendly advise. I'm sure Sheryl brings little Wyatt along with her on her current solo tour. It wouldn't stop her from bringing Wyatt along if she was a member of FM.

i feel like when the dust settles, it will be just Fleetwood Mac, like its been the last 2 tours.:nod:

I hope you're right David. It just needs to be a knock down drag out FM Rockfest for 3+ hours. Peter Green, Christine McVie, Bob Welch, and Jeremy Spencer need to be there too! I love you all, please come back! :]

You know, Viagra would make an excellent tour sponsor! That way Mick could bring Harold the Dildo out of retirement!:laugh:

yes... but i wanted David to say it... lol

Which is exactly why I was referring to Stevie telling a lie. Here's what she said:

That insinuates the reason Stevie gave Sheryl for not being in FM was her baby, Wyatt. But, now the new info has Sheryl on the road with them anyway. So, Wyatt had nothing to do with it.

But, it's all good - it's Stevie's mo - she says stuff like that all the time. :laugh:

Thank you. :wavey:

I think people look at what she says in a vaccuum and do not consider time or context. I also think that if someone asked any of us exactly what happened in 1973, we might get the general story right with some hazy details. The Sheryl Crowe thing is a good example. Maybe in the beginning Stevie thought it might be a good idea to have her in the band, but changed her mind later. Who knows for sure. However, to say Stevie is lying through her teeth when she discussses it is speculation at best IMO because none of us were there.

Another good example is a few weeks ago, the article was discussed where Stevie said while LB was in the room that LB had really left after Mirage and came back to fo TITN. LB corrected her and said he never left FM. They went back and forth for a second and then she caved. Was she lying? I do not think so. I think she was giving her perception of events. Many, but not all, people at the time thought FM was broken up after Mirage.

In the end, lying involves some bad intent, which I do not think she has. Also, I am sure they lie to hide the bad stuff. I am sure there have interviews where they want to kill each other, but smile for the camera. I suppose that is lying, but they all do it.

It is possible it was both reasons :shrug: Or, do you think it has to be one or the other?

ALso, SC as an opening act can leave anytime she wants assuming she fulfills her contract, etc. If she joins FM, she is way more committed, which is what La Nicks said when she said "being in a band like Fleetwood Mac." If you are the opening act, you are not in the band and therefore do not have the obligations and "ups and downs" that go with it.

I just do not see the glaring incinsistency.

My point was that we don't even know if Sheryl is the opening act. That has not been confirmed. Even if she was, it is different from being IN FM. Did Stevie request that, or does she control who the opening act is? I don't think so. I don't see the glaring inconsistency either. Geeeesh! So I agree with the way you are seeing it here Jason.

Makes up for all those months Stevie waited tables at Big Bob's(or whatever the hell that place was called), while Lindsey was practicing his geetar. :p

I'm so hoping that they crank out one really good radio-friendly single...their last one was Seven Wonders. Peacekeeper and SYW did not do well on radio and were not very good singles anyway, so i'm hoping that they will have something that will chart well on the Hot 100!

Bob's Big Boy. They had great shakes. I miss those old diners.

You're right...they do all lie...and I don't even blame them for most of it. It's just comical, that's all. I don't expect her to have all her facts or memories straight about past events. But, I do think she lies and I do mean flat out lies (or has told things enough to where she actually does believe it now). I think it's "all about protection", not a malicious thing. Like I said though, if Stevie and the lot do lie in the press they have their reasons. I wouldn't want someone all up in my stuff all the time either.

And, btw, Stevie and Lindsey were debating the actual year he left in the article you mentioned. She said he left in '83 and he said no, it was '87. Then, she caved because she knows she can't remember - she even said that after they discussed it. She also insinuated her memory problem regarding that time last year in the CBS interview. Rita Whatshername brought up the LB fight and she looked at her and said "well, that was a difficult time - in '87?" like she was asking Rita if she had the year right.

But, change her mind - oh yeah - she's gonna do that. Being a Gemini - she doesn't remember or stick by most of what she says because in a few minutes or an hour or maybe tomorrow she's gonna feel totally different about it and have a different opinion. My best friend is Gemini and it's a trip. She hates for me to remind her of something she said too....lol...

And although most human beings (luckily) don't have a record of what they say for people to present to them, it's different with the celebrities. When they contradict themselves, you can easily prove it. So, it's impossible to look at one comment in isolation and say it's the unequivocal truth or that they even believe it's the unequivocal truth, when you know they said the exact opposite.

As far as when Lindsey left FM, I don't think anyone called Stevie a liar during that discussion. The issue was whether or not she was RIGHT and she wasn't. Her perception is one thing, good, bad or indifferent. But the facts are quite another.

There was one interview when John says he doesn't remember most things that happened until he hears Mick talking about it and THEN it returns to him. That's kind of a funny thing to think about, so many large chunks of your life just being an absolute daze. You see it through a glass darkly.

Michele

Actually, I think La Nicks justs lets LB win the arguments like that one. I think she knows with him it is all about winning the war, so to speak.

Just my opinion.

Stevie herself always says that she hates any kind of confrontation, so i completely agree with you.

I think that's a good chunk of the reason why she doesn't want him to be the sole producer! Lindsey not having the final say = less confrontation.

Yes, I think she consequently does walk on eggshells around him. The two of them have always struck me as mutually brittle & wary. They're a funny pair -- they seem to be ok snuggling against each other during a soft acoustic song, but the minute they start talking -- about anything -- you can almost see one warily eye the other & that strange wall go up between them. That's what always made me say that, although they may have loved each other back when, they didn't seem to like each other.

Haven't many of us loved but not really liked someone?

I don't see this happening, unless they bring Christine into the equation. She had the hits (IMHO) and her voice added to the LB, SN songs. I wish she would come back for one more album. I loved Temporary One on the Dance Album. I wish it had been released as a single.

Yes, I think of it as knowing you could strangle someone with your bare hands, yet also knowing that you'd be devastated if anything ever happened to them. They have both noted that they were never really friends, even when they were lovers. I think with Fleetwood Mac in general -- not just Lindsey and Stevie -- there's this sense that you don't have much in common, you wouldn't choose these people to hang out with, yet you're connected to them and there's almost a feeling of frustration stemming from that perrenial connection that you never really chose.

It would be easy to say that the music was the only bond, but I think when you take away the music, the tie is still there. It would be more apt to say that the music is the only thing that made them able to fully appreciate the bond. With that gone, they don't really know how to relate.

I think she avoids confrontation sometimes and invites it at others. She has discussed how they'd get into a fight at the studio and she'd storm out, think about what she should have said, go home and practice speeches and return the next day to get into it again.

Then, you know around The Dance she would say how no one wanted the whole thing to blow up over a little inconsequential thing. So, I think they were especially ginger in their dealings then. I think it goes back and forth. Sometimes jab, sometimes touch with gossamer wings.

I would say not only with this band, but with couples in general, any couples -- Martin and Lewis, Lucy and Desi, Siskel and Ebert . . . it's fascinating to me when they fight, but it's even more fascinating when they don't fight. I mean the fights get all the attention, but the way they tolerate each other is overlooked and I think the greatest secret to the relationship is found in the tolerance, rather than the friction. It's the things you give each other permission to do, without objection -- no matter how nutty -- that fascinate me.

I think so many people like the Tusk footage and a lot of that fondness has to do with the way Stevie and Lindsey are not fighting during Angel. It's kind of mesmerizing.

Michele

They would gladly have her back, but as we all know, Christine is quite happy staying in retirement. :(

Off topic, but this clip makes me laugh.

Very interesting. I never thought about it that way, but it's true.

It is great footage. I think a reality shows through there - even from that long ago - and that is that they know 1000% how to deal with each other and do it quite well. She even laughed when he was making one of his "suggestions". They don't have to always be in some knock down drag out. It could be amusing to them when they are disagreeing. Perhaps they look at those moments as being caricatures of themselves. You know, the whole Lindsey and Stevie don't get along schtick. Oh, here we go again type thing..:rolleyes: