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GateandGarden 10-30-2005 08:36 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by markolas
Well, I think so too, but I'm not the one who coined the term. :D

If "masculine" (whatever that means) is how you really are, then that's fine...what I find aggravating is when guys go overboard with the machismo because they're obviously uncomfortable with their homosexuality. Like guys who refuse to bottom, for instance.

I had a roommate who was gay, but didn't want anyone who was not gay to know about it. When I lived with him and we were interviewing potential third roommates, he asked me once if I would be willing to keep my being gay a secret. I told him no, and he actually wound up telling these people that he was bi, even though he'd never been with a woman. He would even try to talk about girls with some of these straight guys. And other things, like sports, which I knew he wasn't into, but he pretended to be so straight guys would think he was a "real man." Or something. It was sooo painful to watch. :distress:
:distress: I had a gay friend who was so determined to hide his homosexuality that he hit on me whenever we were around other people. He went completely overboard with it, too. I expected someone to say "Thou doth protest too much." When he made some extremely inappropriate and bordering on degrading comment about my breasts in front of a teacher, I told him (when we were alone again) that I had no interest in helping him conceal his homosexuality. If he wanted to do it, that was fine, but he was not to bring me into it. He was so wrapped up in trying to hide it that he couldn't see that he was doing something unfair to me. This was a couple of years ago but I think he's still that way about being gay. :distress:

AliceLover 10-30-2005 08:41 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by ryan8472
I just kind of laugh at that kind of stuff. Its sooooo over the top. :nod:

My bf Brad and I are FAR from dainty. In fact, we're goofy and doofy; dumb and dumber :laugh:
When did YOU get a bf? And not tell me. :laugh:

strandinthewind 10-30-2005 09:36 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by sparky
DUDE ! You have a bf ? That is awesome !:thumbsup:
I know - our little Ledgie is all grown up - where did the time fly off to?

So, Ryan, spill - how long? Is it cool in your school or are you all not out? Not to sound patriarchal, but considering I am at at least 20 years older :laugh: - it must be so much easier nowadays to be gay and your age. It certainly was not a few decades ago.

KarmaContestant 10-30-2005 09:40 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by markolas
It's gotten to where the whole obssession with "straight-acting" that some gay men have is incredibly annoying to me. I have been attracted to men that might be considered "effeminate." Just be yourself. I have a friend (gay man) who thinks men dressing in drag is "not appropriate." His attitude strikes me as the same as the "straight-acting" thing...these people aren't comfortable with being gay, and it's kind of sad.

You know, I see your point. The 'straight acting' thing can get annoying....but, really, it shouldn't be about the acting at all. I would venture to say that some of the femmy guys that we've been talking about are also 'acting' and not just being themselves....even so, I don't look down on the cross dressing guys - they are having fun, and that's no crime, but it's just not something that I'm interested in on a personal level.

While many gay men are pretty homophobic (it's true) there are some of us who are not, and our disinterest in effeminate men stems merely from that - disinterest. I'm not interested in dating a narcoleptic either, but it doesn't mean that I'm uncomfortable around them. I just want a boyfriend who can stay awake. And one who carries himself like a man instead of a high school girl from the Bronx. :nod:

KarmaContestant 10-30-2005 09:42 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by strandinthewind
:laugh: - it must be so much easier nowadays to be gay and your age. It certainly was not a few decades ago.
Gosh, tell me about it. If I had come out in high school (I graduated in 1991), I'd have been tied to a tree and beat. No fuc*ing joke.

strandinthewind 10-30-2005 09:43 PM
Ya know - I think all of this pigeonholing people tend to do is silly. Everyone has many facets to their personalities. It shocks the shiitte out of people when I tell them I used to be a defensive tackle. I never really show that "I will jack you jaw right now" side of me very often. Normally, I am at a table with my posse cracking jokes. So, I think people should be who they want to be and all this judging is for the birds. I mean no one is perfect :shrug:

sparky 10-30-2005 09:43 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by markolas
Well, I think so too, but I'm not the one who coined the term. :D

If "masculine" (whatever that means) is how you really are, then that's fine...what I find aggravating is when guys go overboard with the machismo because they're obviously uncomfortable with their homosexuality. Like guys who refuse to bottom, for instance.

I had a roommate who was gay, but didn't want anyone who was not gay to know about it. When I lived with him and we were interviewing potential third roommates, he asked me once if I would be willing to keep my being gay a secret. I told him no, and he actually wound up telling these people that he was bi, even though he'd never been with a woman. He would even try to talk about girls with some of these straight guys. And other things, like sports, which I knew he wasn't into, but he pretended to be so straight guys would think he was a "real man." Or something. It was sooo painful to watch. :distress:
Dude, as I have noticed before in some of your anecdotal posts, you have known some pretty f*cked up people.

strandinthewind 10-30-2005 09:45 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by KarmaContestant
Gosh, tell me about it. If I had come out in high school (I graduated in 1991), I'd have been tied to a tree and beat. No fuc*ing joke.
We had some mostly out gay guys (maybe three) at our high school and most people left him alone, literally. He also was into that whole bad perm hair look in the early 80's - I graduated HS in 85. But, it just was considered so taboo even then. When I was in Vegas in May, I saw all these young guys holding hands and walking in public, which NEVER would have happened when I that age. It really almost made me cry at their courage.

markolas 10-30-2005 09:46 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by sparky
Dude, as I have noticed before in some of your anecdotal posts, you have known some pretty f*cked up people.
Well, this particular ex-roomie that I'm referring to is the same ex-roomie I've referred to in other posts. But yes, I have known some pretty f*cked up people. Most of them are relatives. :laugh:

strandinthewind 10-30-2005 09:47 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by sparky
Dude, as I have noticed before in some of your anecdotal posts, you have known some pretty f*cked up people.

I know - bless your heart darlin - but be a little choosier in the future :laugh: :laugh

But, if it is any consolation, one of my really good friends hangs out with straight people because he is really into straight guys. He will even go home with straight couple to get to the staight guy. I think he needs professional help LOL

sparky 10-30-2005 09:47 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by KarmaContestant
Gosh, tell me about it. If I had come out in high school (I graduated in 1991), I'd have been tied to a tree and beat. No fuc*ing joke.

Where the HELL did you got to school ? I graduated in 84 and most of the people in my high school knew my story. And I am from friggin Oregon.

KarmaContestant 10-30-2005 09:49 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by markolas
But yes, I have known some pretty f*cked up people. Most of them are relatives. :laugh:
:laugh: :laugh: :laugh:

I'm gonna add that to my ever growing list of Things I Have In Common With Other Fleetwood Mac Fans. :lol:

markolas 10-30-2005 09:50 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by sparky
Where the HELL did you got to school ? I graduated in 84 and most of the people in my high school knew my story. And I am from friggin Oregon.
I graduated in '97, and *I* would have been tied to a tree and beaten if I had come out in high school. I'd probably be tied to a tree and beaten if I went back to that town and came out now.

Richard B 10-30-2005 09:51 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by strandinthewind
Ya know - I think all of this pigeonholing people tend to do is silly. Everyone has many facets to their personalities. It shocks the shiitte out of people when I tell them I used to be a defensive tackle. I never really show that "I will jack you jaw right now" side of me very often. Normally, I am at a table with my posse cracking jokes. So, I think people should be who they want to be and all this judging is for the birds. I mean no one is perfect :shrug:
Thanks for the most intelligent post in this thread.

KarmaContestant 10-30-2005 09:51 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by sparky
Where the HELL did you got to school ? I graduated in 84 and most of the people in my high school knew my story. And I am from friggin Oregon.

A wee little town in Michigan. Rural, agriculture based economics. There were 53 people in my graduating class, and 12 people in the graduating class of the next town over. Everyone knew what everyone did all the time. Our prom was shared with three other schools. Yeah. Small town life stinks. The only redeeming quality was living on Lake Michigan.

KarmaContestant 10-30-2005 09:53 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by markolas
I graduated in '97, and *I* would have been tied to a tree and beaten if I had come out in high school. I'd probably be tied to a tree and beaten if I went back to that town and came out now.

Preach it brotha! Me too! Though I do have a few friends there....we don't really keep in touch, but they do know that I'm gay. I'm just gay 2000 miles away instead of gay and down the street. :laugh:

markolas 10-30-2005 09:57 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by strandinthewind
I know - bless your heart darlin - but be a little choosier in the future :laugh:
I'm much more bitter and cynical about people after that experience.

Quote:
it is any consolation, one of my really good friends hangs out with straight people because he is really into straight guys. He will even go home with straight couple to get to the staight guy. I think he needs professional help LOL
Oh, that was another thing this guy used to do. He made friends with this straight redneck college boy (a good 15-year age difference between him and my ex-roomie) and used to bring him home and watch straight porn with him in an attempt to seduce him. At one point, the roomie told him he was "bi," and the boy told him he was going to hell. I felt very uncomfortable with some of the people this guy let into the house.

Anyway, one night the boy comes over and he and roomie go into roomie's bedroom. About five minutes later, the boy storms out of the house and I never saw him again. I'm thinking the roommate tried something, and redneck boy didn't take kindly to it. :rolleyes:

Wild_Heart03 10-30-2005 10:43 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by GateandGarden
Nick, I love your avatar and I love "Little Lies" Christine in your sig. :nod:
thanks Hilary... gotta give credit where it's due, and plus I've been listening to a lot more of Christine's stuff lately. :)

Johnny Stew 10-30-2005 11:27 PM
I'm not totally "masculine" and I'm not totally "effeminate"... I'm just Brian, I guess.
Some people can figure out that I'm gay pretty quickly, while other folks never pick up on it.

My first boyfriend was fairly effeminate. I still remember my neighbor asking me who the girl was that he saw leaving my house early in the morning! :laugh: (For the record, I told him, "his name is Michael," and he dropped the subject right there.)

I've always preferred guys who, like myself, aren't too much of one or the other, and Joshua's just right on the masculine/effeminate scale. :nod:

DavidMn 10-31-2005 12:09 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Johnny Stew
I'm not totally "masculine" and I'm not totally "effeminate"... I'm just Brian, I guess.
Some people can figure out that I'm gay pretty quickly, while other folks never pick up on it.

My first boyfriend was fairly effeminate. I still remember my neighbor asking me who the girl was that he saw leaving my house early in the morning! :laugh: (For the record, I told him, "his name is Michael," and he dropped the subject right there.)

I've always preferred guys who, like myself, aren't too much of one or the other, and Joshua's just right on the masculine/effeminate scale. :nod:
Well, just be who youare,thats what I say.:thumbsup:

ryan8472 10-31-2005 02:52 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by sparky
DUDE ! You have a bf ? That is awesome !:thumbsup:
Quote:
Originally Posted by AliceLover
When did YOU get a bf? And not tell me. :laugh:
Quote:
Originally Posted by strandinthewind
I know - our little Ledgie is all grown up - where did the time fly off to?

So, Ryan, spill - how long? Is it cool in your school or are you all not out? Not to sound patriarchal, but considering I am at at least 20 years older - it must be so much easier nowadays to be gay and your age. It certainly was not a few decades ago.
Sorry guys, I fell asleep around 7 PM last night. And of course, my punishment for that is waking up at 2 AM. :laugh:

So anyways ~ Yeah...I have a boyfriend :o :p We've been going out for like, a week, and his name is Brad. And he's younger than me. :eek: :D (Like he's 16 and I'm 17, Junior and Senior; I'm no pervert :laugh: ) But we've known each other for a while.

Being gay, actually, still is not widely accepted in my school. We've got a lot of real pricks here that would probably try and make our lives suck as much as possible, so we try not to show it too much. Most of my friends know I'm gay tho. But that's it. It's still not easy.

I always assumed that it was this way in most CT towns, until I read about a boy from Shelton, CT who was voted Prom Princess for this year. :p I was quite happy when I heard that. :nod:

ryan8472 10-31-2005 03:32 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by takenbythesky
I'm happy for you two, Ryan! :thumbsup: :D :wavey: :xoxo:

Oh don't worry-you can be "Ledge Prince," if that other person in Shelton could be Prom Princess (unless you'd prefer "Ledge Princess" :)).

P.S. If you're comfortable...Do you have any pictures of him to post? :)
Aww thanks Justin. :xoxo: PS - We need a hug smilie.

There are a few around here that deserve that resplendent title more than me. :p

Also: A picture of him? I have one, but its an arty black and white one of him wet. :laugh: (PPS - Not what you think. :laugh: ) I can post it if you want tho.

ragandbone 10-31-2005 03:46 AM
Dan Savage used to talk a lot (well, still does) in his Stranger column (Savage Love, syndicated) about the predominance of gay personal ads seeking "straight-acting" men.

He had a great audio piece in This American Life quite a few years ago. Here is the real Audio link, Savage's piece is Part 4, if you want to skip ahead.

http://www.thislife.org/ra/46.ram

The whole show is called "Sissies"

ryan8472 10-31-2005 03:51 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by takenbythesky
Wet? :shocked::laugh: Don't worry about it.
Yes...out-of-the-shower wet. You pervs. ;) :laugh: It isnt like a "revealing" shot or anything. Just him trying to be "sooo coool" and arty by taking a picture and making it black & white. :laugh: He tries too hard. Seriously. :laugh: :nod:

Here's the incredibly doofy boyfriend. :lol:
Image hosted by TinyPic.com

He'll be so incredibly embarrassed when I tell him that his mug is all over The Ledge. Like I care. :lol:

Moony 10-31-2005 03:52 AM
Ryan, he's too cute. Way to go :thumbsup:

ragandbone 10-31-2005 04:00 AM
Beautiful eyes, great smile, and doofy - you scored!
:wavey:

ryan8472 10-31-2005 04:01 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Moony
Ryan, he's too cute. Way to go :thumbsup:
Thanks! I know he is. :D




;)

ryan8472 10-31-2005 04:05 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by takenbythesky
LMAO! He's very cute, Ryan. :nod:

I like your boyfriend if he's so arty, oh yeah.
Teehee. <3 Franz Ferdinand. :]

Quote:
Originally Posted by takenbythesky
Thanks for posting the picture--he has nothing to be embarrassed about. :)

P.S. Does he have the bird shot, or the tie shot or the destroying guitar shot? They should be in his possession.
I'm sure he's seen them. :laugh:

ryan8472 10-31-2005 04:07 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by ragandbone
Beautiful eyes, great smile, and doofy - you scored!
:wavey:
Oh man, he DOES have the best, doofiest smile. And perfect teeth. It makes me sick. :laugh:

I'm going BACK to bed, you guys. Have to try and squeeze one more hour of sleep out. :laugh:

Wild_Heart03 10-31-2005 04:38 AM
Oh wow Ryan... he's a hottie! :laugh: way to go!

ryan8472 10-31-2005 06:04 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Wild_Heart03
Oh wow Ryan... he's a hottie! :laugh: way to go!
Teehee....I know a few girls that may have a death warrant out for me now. ;) :laugh:

strandinthewind 10-31-2005 10:04 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by ryan8472
Teehee....I know a few girls that may have a death warrant out for me now. ;) :laugh:
LOL - how did you all meet?

and Congrats!

JazmenFlowers 10-31-2005 10:41 AM
As hard as it is to be "different" in any way in this world, we should all be nothing but accepting and supportive of our brothers and sisters. It always boggles my mind to see anyone in the glbt community criticize anyone else for being different when that's the very thing glbt communities face and fight every day.

ontheEdgeof17 10-31-2005 10:48 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by JazmenFlowers
As hard as it is to be "different" in any way in this world, we should all be nothing but accepting and supportive of our brothers and sisters. It always boggles my mind to see anyone in the glbt community criticize anyone else for being different when that's the very thing glbt communities face and fight every day.
Personally, I don't think I'm different than anyone else, and I despise being though of that way because I happen to be gay....but that's just me :p

Jyqm 10-31-2005 11:01 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by ontheEdgeof17
Personally, I don't think I'm different than anyone else, and I despise being though of that way because I happen to be gay....but that's just me :p
Well ****, I'm straight, but I sure hope to god that I'm different from everybody else.

JazmenFlowers 10-31-2005 11:05 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by ontheEdgeof17
Personally, I don't think I'm different than anyone else, and I despise being though of that way because I happen to be gay....but that's just me :p
well, you know what I meant - hence different in the quotation marks

Brwn_eyes0511 10-31-2005 11:08 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by ryan8472
Sorry guys, I fell asleep around 7 PM last night. And of course, my punishment for that is waking up at 2 AM. :laugh:

So anyways ~ Yeah...I have a boyfriend :o :p We've been going out for like, a week, and his name is Brad. And he's younger than me. :eek: :D (Like he's 16 and I'm 17, Junior and Senior; I'm no pervert :laugh: ) But we've known each other for a while.

Being gay, actually, still is not widely accepted in my school. We've got a lot of real pricks here that would probably try and make our lives suck as much as possible, so we try not to show it too much. Most of my friends know I'm gay tho. But that's it. It's still not easy.

I always assumed that it was this way in most CT towns, until I read about a boy from Shelton, CT who was voted Prom Princess for this year. :p I was quite happy when I heard that. :nod:
Wow! Congrats on the new boyfriend. And major props to you for coming out at such a young age! Just so you know, half of the jocks in highschool will end up gay in college! TRUST ME...:lol:

Brwn_eyes0511 10-31-2005 11:09 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by JazmenFlowers
As hard as it is to be "different" in any way in this world, we should all be nothing but accepting and supportive of our brothers and sisters. It always boggles my mind to see anyone in the glbt community criticize anyone else for being different when that's the very thing glbt communities face and fight every day.
LIKE....gay republicans! :shocked: :mad: :p

Brwn_eyes0511 10-31-2005 11:11 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by ontheEdgeof17
Personally, I don't think I'm different than anyone else, and I despise being though of that way because I happen to be gay....but that's just me :p
Well...eh! I disagree a bit...I understand what you are saying but still gay people are different are they? If not, then straight people must be different? Somebody HAS to be different! lol....

strandinthewind 10-31-2005 11:22 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Brwn_eyes0511
Well...eh! I disagree a bit...I understand what you are saying but still gay people are different are they? If not, then straight people must be different? Somebody HAS to be different! lol....
Though I may share several things with many people, we are all different from each other - that is the point of being an individual. No one is exactly like me. Thus, your statement that somebody has to be different is illogical because no one is the same as another - thus we are all different. Moreover, to point to sexuality as this all defining difference is silly when so many other differences between people are there as well.


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