Can one be "corporate" and liberal/progressive simultaneously? Even though you are comfortable financially, you walk the walk of a liberal. Just because Lindsey donates to the ACLU and is anti-war, doesn't mean he's liberal on all counts. But we'll never see eye to eye on this. ;)

:laugh: :lol: :laugh: I totally remembered that part when you said it. He sounded so whiny/wussy there :laugh: thanks, macman! now i'm thinking of my mom making fun of him singing GYOW in whiny voice. :laugh: good times...

And I wouldn't presume to say he is. No one is a true progressive unless they actually work towards a goal and put their blood and tears into making good things happen. Donating money doesn't mean ****, you have to grab a sign and picket.

That I agree with. :)

I disagree. I think with the way the world works, and how things get done, that donating money can mean a lot. For instance, who would work at food kitchens if no one donated money for food? How would environmental lawyers bring things to court if they didn't have money? How would poorer politicians that we like even get their voice heard, and compete at all without donations? How would planned parenthood offer free services to people that need it without money? I could donate blood, sweat and tears, but i certainly can't manufactur birth control pills or perform abortions. :shrug: I think a combo of both is good. :wavey:

I said that line (Jesus Christ man!) in LB's "high pitched squeak" to Seteca a few weeks back and cracked him up! by doing it. :laugh: :laugh:

I think LB is a great artist but he cracks me up with the innocent look and high voiced defensive stand when anybody criticises him. It's priceless

For instance, "Look at that filmmaker, what's his name" High pitched reply to Mick about doing the "artistic thing" with a double album.. Wonderful stuff... :laugh:

I think donating money is good as long as you check out the places its going to and are happy with your choice. A balance is required for sure.

It's like Live Aid, which I've been watching again this week. It took blood, sweat and tears by Geldof and the rest of the artists involved to make it happen, but without the donations from those who couldn't do anything else but donate money to help it wouldn't have achieved anything..

I'm gonna go back a bit to the posts about Stevie praying to the commercial gods:
What's wrong with that? I don't think in any way she was inferring "let me be a radio star splashed about in the media like Britney or myself back in the day!"
I think it was more like "after all this time and work, please let us still have an audience".
And she might have been thinking: we are minus Christine and Lindsey is going out on a limb again(and this isn't 1979), will that put people off? So she wrote a song that sounded like a radio hit...maybe with hit potential in mind (SYW), but isn't that what this incarnation of Fleetwood Mac is famous for, well crafted, radio friendly pop-rock? Of course she'd pray for success, what else would she pray for, that Lindsey feels artistically satisfied? Let him pray for that himself.
And the part about her assistant: I do agree she always seems to want to have people around. She had the band, but without Christine she probably didn't feel she really had someone from her camp. And she does, and always has, complained about dominant men in the music business. She projects a somewhat fragile, passive personna e.g. comments about not liking organizing the solo tours because she "doesn't like being the boss and having to make all the decisions". And judging by Lindsey's past & present dominant behavior, I'm surprised any of them want to work with him again. Except they do know his creative part in the band as the architect of their sound, which makes me think Stevie was obviously not the only one praying to the gods of commerce. You know Mick probably sold his soul to the devil to make the tour such a huge success, after his prayers to the gods of commerce weren't answered for his film career or his auction business or his wine selling, etc. etc.

Well may I point out that the one band member who you said you liked in the Documentary is a Republican :lol: :laugh: :lol:

I was disappointed we didn't get to see the REAL fights. The one that Mick refers to at the end, where he acts like the Mac might not even do an extended tour. The one that was supposedly about "running order." Now THAT would have been drama. What we got was some nice conversations and maybe a couple times where a voice was raised for a couple sentences before all was hunky dory again. The reason I like the emotional moment where Lindsey cries was because it was one of the few times where "This is on camera" was not playing in the back of their heads.

Thank you, I agree! If they're gonna have drama, at least give us the good stuff! :laugh:

Yup, Stevie is a goddess and everyone else sucks. :woohoo:

You know he's right... :D :thumbsup:

As right as Ann Coulter when she says the sky isn't blue. :p

oh, please... :rolleyes: SUCH a reach...

I truly think Lindsey has always been the most pretentious and shallow when it comes to calling the shots as they are. He talks about spontaneity, yet possesses none, and all that starving artist bull**** just rings false. Remember Stevie is the one who supported them both when they moved to Los Angeles in the early 70's, and he's never held a real job since. Granted, he is a wonderful arranger, producer, and guitarist-not a great singer though-but he's basically full of pretension. Stevie has always seemed alot more honest, except for when she was using.

:nod: Also, Stevie is actually spontaneous... :D

Not that it matters, but my opinion on it has always been that they each have their prima donna moments. Creative people are a mercurial lot, no matter how you slice it. There's always a degree of egotism and stubbornness.

I'd bet there have been times throughout the years when every last one of them (including John) have been downright insufferable about something... a lyric, a guitar part, an out of tune piano, the way the bass line should be played, how the drums are mixed, the running order, a song that was dropped, etc., etc.

In this particular documentary, Stevie came off as more flexible and willing to compromise than Lindsey did, in my opinion. But a documentary about 'Mirage,' for example, might have shown the opposite.

One of the best observations Lindsey has ever made, is that "no one falls into a simple set of labels."

That's not what he was saying, and you know it. :p
He was stating the opinion that, whether we saw it on camera or not, Stevie isn't the only one who might pray to the commercial gods for the project to be well received.
I don't see any instance in his post where he was saying Stevie was better than anyone else, or, more importantly, where he said she was perfect... and, yet, anytime someone offers a view of Stevie's behaviour that isn't intrinsically negative, you automatically dismiss them as being a mindless lemming.

That view suffers as much from tunnel vision as that of those who think Stevie is without imperfection. :p ;) :xoxo:

Agreed. :nod:

For whatever it's worth...A couple years ago Stevie and Lindsey's alma mater, Menlo Atherton, had a 50th anniversary celebration or something like that. My father happens to teach there. He talked to a woman who was at the school at the same time as Lindsey and Stevie. She said she just remembered them as a couple of weird kids who always were on the front steps, practicing playing their guitars constantly. No pretense, no haughtiness; they didn't think they were better than anyone else. Apparently, people even made fun of Stevie and Lindsey.

I have yet to see Destiny Rules, and I sincerely doubt that there is any content on the DVD that will make me dislike any of the members. Each has their own ego and pride. Each has their positives and negatives. They're wealthy superstars but they are still human.

Mick is money-hungry. Lindsey is pompous. Stevie is eccentric. John is a Republican. :shrug: Frankly, I wouldn't have it any other way. The mix of personalities helped give birth to some of the best music of the past thirty years. All sixteen(?) members of Fleetwood Mac (especially Mick Fleetwood, John McVie, Peter Green, Danny Kirwan, Bob Welch, Lindsey Buckingham, and Stevie Nicks) have changed my life through their musical contributions. I'm forever thankful for that. Far as I'm concerned, they can go their own ways.

Maybe I'm just naiive. That's my two cents worth.

-Justin

Quote:
Originally Posted by dissention
Yup, Stevie is a goddess and everyone else sucks.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Johnny Stew

That's not what he was saying, and you know it.
He was stating the opinion that, whether we saw it on camera or not, Stevie isn't the only one who might pray to the commercial gods for the project to be well received.
I don't see any instance in his post where he was saying Stevie was better than anyone else, or, more importantly, where he said she was perfect... and, yet, anytime someone offers a view of Stevie's behaviour that isn't intrinsically negative, you automatically dismiss them as being a mindless lemming.

That view suffers as much from tunnel vision as that of those who think Stevie is without imperfection.

Well Johnny Stew, thanks for coming to my defense, but really, what I meant to say is : STEVIE IS A GODDESS AND EVERYONE ELSE SUCKS. Admit it Johnny, you feel the same way, too ;) !
Just kidding-I really was trying to say-they were all praying to the gods of commerce, who in their right mind wouldn't? Then I threw in my inflammatory bit about Lindsey (I'm surprised any of them want to work with him again) , just because I like to and I can! But I did try to be realistic about the near-perfect Ms. Nicks (...she does, and always has, complained about dominant men in the music business. She projects a somewhat fragile, passive personna...)
And Somajoseph, in regards to your comment "Remember Stevie is the one who supported them both when they moved to Los Angeles in the early 70's"
I say "Right right!". And don't forget she sewed stars on his jeans. Do you think he has ever so much as scotch-guarded a pair of her boots or steamed any of her chiffon? Doubtful! :lol:

:thumbsup: I agree completely.

:laugh: :laugh: :laugh:

Yeah, and Jerry Falwell is a liberal.

She has, on many vocal occasions throughout her lifetime, been spontaneous.

Maybe it was the coke allowing her to be spontaneous? I don't recall the same lame, tired hand gestures EVERY night to the same songs. Zzzzzzzz..... :eek: :D

Vocal occasions? :laugh: Bless your heart, Amber. Changing a few lines because you can't remember them isn't exactly spontaneous.

I think the term is "stoned" :laugh: :laugh: :laugh:

:laugh: :nod: :xoxo:

Then there are the latter-day lyric flubs like Stop Draggin' from the Shine Club show with Sheryl. Can we say drunk? :D

Does Stevie use a teleprompter?

I can't recall ever seeing one on stage in front of her so I suppose she can forget the odd line (after taking the odd line that is ;) :laugh: )

I always found it funny that Axl Rose needed to be reminded of his own lyrics during the GNR shows...

Or those "robotic" movements that one critic pointed out. :laugh:

I don't think so.

If you can't even remember your own songs, I have no use for ya. Must be why I can't stand Axl Rose. :laugh:

that's not what i'm talking about and you know it...she used to sing things differently a lot. so hush, you know i'm right. that's why everyone has different versions of shows and all that. hello?

I think there were probably numerous time, especially around the Tusk tour when Stevie changed her lyrics a little maybe as a direct result of her relationship with Lindsey... Lindsey certainly dropped the "real savage like" bit of Tusk due to the wishes of Mick and Stevie so maybe this was a factor..

Stevie sings, it's what she does, singing and writing, she's not a musician as such like the rest of them so I suppose her changing the lyrics is a bit like LB changing a guitar solo, which we've heard many times over the tours.

If you play the same stuff every single night I guess you are bound to change it unless you want to go nuts... I can't even play a guitar solo the same every time, I have to change it to keep interested so looking at it from that angle I can see your point.

:thumbsup:

Hello!

I don't understand what you mean by her being spontaneous because "she used to sing things differently," so no, I don't know that you're right. ;)

She used to sing things differently because a) she was doped up all the time and b) because she had a larger range. That still has nothing to do with being spontaneous. Take away the drugs and the flexible voice and you get the Stevie of the nineties and today.

I'd agree that the more limited vocal range Stevie has these days, which is undeniable, has stifled a certain amount of creativity in her singing which is understandable. Better to play safe than try something that might lead to your voice cracking at the wrong moment...

Therein lies the problem. If she was an opera singer, I'd buy that argument. But she's a rock star. Live rock shows aren't about perfection or sounding magnificent on every note. It's about putting on a good show. Her RAL tour vocals were absolutely abysmal, but no one paid attention to any of that because the performances were so energetic and magical. She needs to understand that she doesn't have to stand in one place with perfect posture in order to hit a note perfectly. When she does that, she's dull, IMO. There are ways in which to let loose on songs without hurting your vocal chords.

I'd agree with that to an extent but she's not a youngster anymore. Her audiences have matured with her (yes I know she has younger fans but thats not my point here) and they I believe would prefer vocal perfection over energetic. You are not supposed to be energetic in your fifties (nobody told Lindsey!) She's a woman with a hip problem, add to that the menopause too and I'm amazed she's even been out on the road. To be honest I would rather take Stevie as she is now than her trying to recapture her youth, she's far more graceful than say, for instance, Cher. For Stevie to go full out energetic I don't think would work now, she's nearing retirement age!

How do you know? She might be doing all kinds of things today if her voice were flexible, and if she was as mobile as she was before. You can't say for sure it's the drugs...IMO. I think she was really vocally spontaneous. Drugs don't give you whole new skills that you didn't have at all before. She had a great voice and she used it spontaneously (harmonies) and well.

If you want to circumvent reality to aid your argument, that's fine by me. But a careful inspection of her live performances tell a different story. The whole "vocally spontaneous" argument is just laughable to me, anyways. If I were to buy it, I could use the same argument for Lindsey.

I can't believe you deny she used to be vocally spontaneous. It boggles my mind. I think you're the one who is circumventing reality by saying, well, it was because of this and that. It still existed, she was spontaneous, I don't really care why. so, nyeah! :xoxo: