Well damn..guess I can rule out my shocking Stevie/Deanna Kiss at the awards when my band gets big ;)

I'm totally kidding btw....

Anyway..that article was a bit strange...in that Stevie isn't usually that blatant...BUT have you noticed that some stars tend to get more blatant and stuff as they get older?? I like to hear her views on things....keeps my view of her interesting.

Am I the only one who thinks Madonna is in a different league then, say Brit and Christina? I mean obviously Madonna does have staying power- she has been around since the early 80s! That is almost as long as Stevie has been around.

I think Madonna may push the envelope, but she does have much more talent and "star" power then say Brit. And Madonna also writes all her own songs! Not only that, she just wrote a childrens book and was in a critically aclaimed movie, Evita.

And she has had 2 greatest hits albums!

Now, I do love Stevie more than I love Madonna, but I still think Madonna is great in her own way. And while she may use more of a "sexy" image then Stevie does, that is not the basis of her entire career anymore.

I know I am starting to sound crazy, but most people on this post are grouping Madonna with Brit and Christine. I think Madonna has proven that she is a much more powerful star then these two are.

I think she IS the most popular pop star in the world, and I think most people would have to agree that I am right. Anyone want to argue that statement???

strandinthe wind,
i disagree with you on stevie using sex to sell the way britney does. first of all stevie back in the day, was as she is today a woman, a beautiful woman, i think a woman who wears a dress that reveals some cleavage, is not being overly sexual at all. stevie never looked cheap or sleazy , at least not in my opinion. britney came out in short shorts and a snake on her shoulders to sing and perform , why? stevies stage presence was never to shock the audience, you say she showed leg? oh, ahh not in the manner that these girls are, they go on stage in there underwear, stevie may do a high kick with a mile of lace covering her and you get to see her leg for a second, not the same thing, . i think maybe you are confusing stevies sex symbol status that she had when she was younger, but she got that because she was beautiful and talented, not because she was provocative on stage or degrading. the way britney and christina perform is very degrading to woman, but they will not be remembered for there songs , but for how they dressed on stage,,

[QUOTE]Originally posted by strandinthewind
[B]Granted, she is not coked up anymore, but she is still trying (successfully in my opinion) to be sexy by exposing a leg every now and then and also hauling her boobs higher to heaven during Rhiannon. I am pretty sure she is doing this for sex appeal on her own terms because she has been doing this all along.

I totally see your point and it does have to do with how far you take it. Im not sure when it was that Stevie exposed her legs unless it was during a kick on stage but is that really for sex appeal....that would be a tad on the sad side.....And I do remember the whole breast implant timeframe, but I dont think anything was ever done for shock value. We all know that Stevie has been AROUND and the added bust might have also been to make her feel more sexy as a person, not as a persona---in addition to whatever it brought her in the fame arena.

I see both sides to the story really and I honestly didnt care about the kiss. I thought the fact that Madonna, Christina, Brittany and Missy Elliot were on stage together was pretty brilliant since they are all hot right now. Brit and Chris have both said that Madonna was there idol growing up so it was cool they got to share the stage.

Who thinks some of that article was fabricated? Obviously I dont know Stevie personally but I have never read an article that was as bitter as that one. And the J.Lo thing.....whats that connection? Is she teaming with J.Lo now????? It just seems a bit off. I would love to hear her comment on the article or at least one of them to comment. Maybe the foreign entities are no holds bar for artists to speak their peace and not have to deal with the backlash here......

Oh Stevie
 

I guess she doesn't remember Howard Stern flying in on the MTV awards one year as "Fartman" passing gas with his cellulite- riddled ass exposed for the whole world to see! :laugh: NOW THAT'S OBNOXIOUS STEVIE! :laugh: :laugh:

As far as Madonna kissing a woman who is 22yrs. old. Who cares! They're not dating. It was for entertainment and "shock" purposes only. It was just a ploy to get people talking. And guess what, IT WORKED!

Sometimes I think Stevie comes off as somewhat of a prude. I guess she's just a real "old fashioned" kind of gal. :)


I will agree with her though that it's certainly a good idea to develop your talent/career without relying solely on your looks/body to make it for a long period of time.


Joe

I don't know how to quote but Beth wanted to know about the Natalie Maines incident. This was when the Dixie Chicks said something bad about President Bush and the war at a concert and many people were very upset with them. Radio stations were banning the Chicks and people were throwing away their albums. Anyway, someone asked Stevie what she thought about Natalie making that comment and Stevie said that she should have kept her mouth shut.

Sparky, see this month's Vanity Fair. Oooh la la!:D

~~~~For what it's worth, Madonna on Oprah Tuesday said that during rehearsal she gave a 'sisterly kiss' to both Britney and Christina. During the actual performance when she turned to Britney, it was Britney who had an open mouth and Madonna said she just went with it - adapting to the moment. It does seem like much ado about nothing. As Stevie said there is a barrage of images of questionable taste on MTV all the time. I enjoy hearing Stevie's opinions and I like it when she speaks out.

You and I have discussed this topic before... and I respectfully disagree that Stevie calculated her sex-appeal in order to "sell" her records.

Yes, she dressed in a flattering way... but we wouldn't expect her to wear a tunic, would we?
And doesn't most everyone want to dress in a flattering way? Why else would anyone ever ask, "does my butt look big in this?" ;)

And she definitely has sex-appeal, but Stevie's sex-appeal was born out of her... as Courtney Love might say... "mojo."
She wasn't writhing around on stage, or cavorting with male dancers, or anything of the like.
She was up on stage, being Stevie... wearing layer after layer of lace and chiffon (which is why an actual glimpse of her skin always shocks the fans).

If we're going to say that Stevie used sex to sell albums, then we'd have to say that every pop/rock act... save maybe a very few... has used their sex-appeal to "sell" their music.
Anyone who ever dressed stylishly, or in a flattering way, or danced around on stage, or pouted in a video... and that includes even the most respected of artists, like the Beatles, or Springsteen.


Now, back to the original topic.
Stevie has also said... when asked by Details, in 1994, if she had any advice for Madonna:
"The sexual thing is pretty exhausted. Maybe a thesis on religion?" :laugh:

I like Madonna... i have a HUGE amount of respect for her... but at this point in her career, that kiss seemed more desperate than shocking.
Of course, Madonna has said that it was Britney who took the kiss to the next level... so maybe it was the latter who was showing a bit of desperation.

At any rate, "no one is cute forever."

I wholeheartedly agree!!

There is a difference between "acting sexy" and "being sexy"...Stevie had said her inspiration for her stage clothes in the '70's were inspired by Dickens' "Great Expectations" saying she wanted to look like a character out of that book...Scandalous, I know:laugh:

And yes, maybe...in the '80's her look involved a little more cleavage...but hey, sometimes this can't be helped:D

INNER beauty and strength shine through tenfold...compare to heavy make up and skirts that leave very little to the imagination...PURE HONEST sexiness is by far THE MOST sexiest thing on this earth. Hell, Julia Roberts thought Lyle Lovett was sexy in a 'Abe Lincoln' sort of way :eek:

The point I am so badly trying to make :laugh: is this...Madonna, Britney and Christina may or may not have 'talent'...let's face it Madonna didn't really start getting "critical acclaim" until she shed the "daring, angry, sexpot schtick" and became this "new age mother"...but whatever beauty or talent that does lie within is being overshadowed by who can out sex the other...and quite frankly, they all pretty much sound the same...I really can't tell one from the other anymore!!

Maybe I'm just getting more conservative in my old age myself, :laugh: or maybe it has to do with the fact that I'm a mom now...but I find myself scratching my head more often than over these 'artist' these days:rolleyes:

I thought the comment of Stevie "showing a little leg now and then" being related to these girls was incredibly funny...I don't think that relates at all...And these kinds of controversies happen now and then with Stevie fans...but I'm speaking for the majority here...you cannot expect MOST Stevie fans to be excited about that...granted there are some Stevie fans who are into the MTV POP CULTURE Stuff of today...most Stevie fans have no interest...and Stevie's knows this cannot backfire on her...cuz most of her fans agree with her, and her true fans would not like her any less because of her comments...

The interview sounds like it's all real...a credible newspaper would no print quotes from someone that weren't true...they cannot do that...I presume the journalist asked her about many things and chose to only put those comments on that in the article....

And another point for you Madonna fans...I like Madonna...and I guarantee you if Madonna is asked her opinion about a controversial subject she would not hold back her comments either...don't you think?

Chris

The "bending over" shot in the "I Can't Wait" video is a good example. That's the same shot that David Letterman kept showing, that got him in trouble w/ Stevie's management.

:wavey:

Meanwhile, am I the only one having trouble picturing Stevie saying "vis-a-vis"? :laugh:
I think there might have been a little embellishment by the reporter there.

Blinker-I thought the same thing. Is this a "reputable" paper, or the down under version of the Enquirer?

I totally agree! :nod: That was my first thought also. I have never heard Stevie speak in that way. Our Stevie says "well", "you know", "it's like", "uh" etc.. so much that she often sounds spacey to me. I wouldn't be surprised if she didn't actually say everything in that article.

susieq :wavey:

I got it last night ! Excellent tip, gldstwmn. Thanks !

those quotes from stevie does sound a little uncharacteristic to me too, what's eating her? both britney and christina's inspirations were madonna, and not stevie, madonna proved that a sexy image CAN win you a long lasting career, and an artisticly valid one too.
stevie didn't use sex, and she's still here, but so is debbie harry.

Johnny - I agree with you that with the exception of the BN cover, which she says she hated going, Stevie's sex appeal is not bearly as blatant as any of these other girls and guys. I am just saying that she has said that after the BN cover incident, she buried herself under tons of chiffon in an attempt to be sexy. I think theat means she realized the power of a sexy image and did what she had to do to use her huge sex appeal to sell already great material. But, it is all about degrees and severity. The youth of today are doing things that are just qas shocking as the fly girls in the late 80 hair band videos a la Taeny Kittan (sp.?) and Jessica Hahn in that awful Sam Kennison video. The bottom line is nine times out of ten, sex sells more than talent. When like Stevie you have both it is a boon

Strandie, ........... it's Tawny Kitean.... well, I'm at least sure about the the Tawny part,... haha!!

I know who you mean, though, the red-haired girl in the Whitesnake video who was being very familar with the hood of a car, right?

I do agree with you in that it is all in degrees of severity. Stevie does like her layers and layers.... except in that photo of her in her bodysuit, tights, and platform boots backstage where she has one foot behind her head...... ummm, that one leaves very little to the imagination bout her, um...... womanhood.

-Sharon

If the article is true it is unfortunate.The entire scenerio is very reminiscent of an incident that occured in early 1953 at a Photoplay awards dinner in L. A..A young and voluptuos Marilyn Monroe arrived more than fashionably late to the event in a skin tight gold lame` gown that she had literally been sown into ,she stopped the show and prompted Jerry Lewis to make a spectacle of himself jumping on a table and imitating an animal in heat.Joan Crawford ,nearly 50 herself,was at the dinner and later attacked Marilyn in the press in a very similar way that the Aussie paper has Stevie going off about blatant sexuality vs. subtle and a more mysterious intimation of sensuality.I am not saying that Stevie is like Joan Craword, expect in both cases they had been stars for 25 yrs or more and had managed to out last most of their peers and Joan like Stevie had certainly been no saint herself.What ultimately occured is that the press begin to turn on Crawford after years of being in it's good graces.Stevie has worked a long time to get to the postion in which she is now,being a long time fan I can remember when the press treated her very unkindly.Now she is regarded mostly as a venerated legend.I really hope this incident has been exaggerated .I would hate to see Stevie's realitively new found respect begin to diminish in a flurry of negative press.

Yup. I see a backlash coming on. Not sure Stevie said everything exactly as printed but she never should have taken the bait in the first place. She should have taken her own advice and kept her mouth shut. In the past she's been a lot more blunt in the foreign press but these days it only takes a minute for news to travel around the world in a flash. Even if she only said a few of these things it still comes off prudish and judgmental. Yes, I agree with what she supposedly said, but I disagree with her going public. The age comment is catty and smacks of somebody taking a whip to all the cradle robbers out there. Wonder what's got her riled up? Tee hee.

Yes and who's now famous for being OJ Simpson's mistress while he was married to Nicole and later beating up her husband Chuck Finley, pitcher for the Anaheim Angels (or he used to be).:rolleyes:

In my humble lil' ol' opinion, no one should be shocked. Now, don't get me wrong, I really like Madonna (not in a Stevie sort of way) but she has gone over the top more then once. THis is what she does for a living. If Madonna wants attention, she does something to get attention. She's a little more then a singer/songwriter, she is an entertainer. This stunt was done to entertain and get attention.

Maria

I agree....
 

with Stevie's sentiments entirely. Stevie isn't the only 'star' that has come out with this type of comment.

Last year Kelly Jones of the Stereophonics made a scathing attack on Kylie Minogue at the Brits when she won the International Artist gong. An 'artist' she isn't, she belongs in the same league as Britney and Christina, scantily dressed mediocre singers, using their assets to get by, with a huge marketing machine of major record label.

It is a sad fact these days that the music industry is NOT about real artistry but making the most out of the latest cash cows they have in the cattleshed, who will then be put out for slaughter when the hits dry up. Bands these days are nothing more than the cogs in the huge money making machine called the record company.

:wavey: :wavey:

Re: I agree....
 

Exactly. It's also part of the reason their sales are so crappy. They milk it for all it's worth and then it's on to the next thing instead of trying to build a base for the artist. They don't think about longevity anymore. It's just now, now, now.

This was a major publicity STUNT, not entertainment, Madonna is synonymous with notoriety...she will stop at nothing for attention. This is why she constantly has to reinvent herself showing that she will not stand the test of time as herself. It was unfortunate Britney wasn't bright enough to work it out, she was Madonna's prop in this stunt, this will come back to haunt her. Guess what? Madonna succeeded as nearly two weeks later we are still talking about her PR STUNT.......sad huh?

As for Madonna doing this for a living.....well I would question that, Madonna is a multi-million $ business. She doesn't need to work. However she desperately wants to hang onto her status as notorious pop icon so has to resort to ever more questionable tactics to do so.
Also when you consider this happened only a few days before her book launch it put her firmly back into the public eye in time for this launch. It truly smacks of STUNT.

Stevie's been riding on her 70's songs/clothing for going on 30 years...that's not longevity...that's redundance. She's a parody of herself circa 1975.

As much as I love her, she's really in no position to dish out career advice, especially considering she's as good as mute without a producer...and she desperately clung to her youth and figure in the 80's as both began to fade.

That said (fast foward), Stevie was most likely giving the paper an interview when they slipped into a conversation regarding the new breed of pop music, eventually landing them on the topic of Madonna's VMA kiss with Britney/Christina. The editors obviously found this the most interesting bit, hence nothing more in the piece but a poorly written and hella generic "bio".

I take it you didn't get the new TISL album then...it is anything but 70' 80' or 90's.....anyhow what band or solo artist isn't mute without a good producer....after all Ken Caillat and Richard Dashut made a damn good job of several FM albums...

I don't form opinions without having heard something.

Of course I have Trouble In Shangri-La. The only good songs on it are "Sorcerer", "Planets Of The Universe" and "Candlebright"....all ones that she demo'ed in the 70's. Oh...and the one Sheryl wrote and had produced into "Strong Enough Part 2" for Stevie.

She hasn't written a decent song since 1981's Bella Donna album... and actually I believe half of those were from the 70's too, so...

Of course this isn't necessary fact but merely your opinion

Pip

Did you guys miss my opening line in the second post? I consider myself a huge Stevie fan, that's why I feel comfortable in stating my opinion. I'm not bashing her, and fans that take it as such are being overly sensitive. Mizz Nicks seems to be having no problem dishing it these days, so who better than someone who has actually heard all of her songs to call it as they see it?

I've paid for each and every one of her CD's, best of's, boxed sets and some bootlegs both with and without Fleetwood Mac. I have listened to each multiple times over a span of two decades, and I didn't say that the stuff wasn't enjoyable, but surely you can see the difference between a piece like Beautiful Child versus one like Sister Honey. Oi. She even resorted to ghost writers/co-writers (the two are normally interchangable) from 85-up. I think she gets/takes too much credit and normally when her body of work is reviewed and she is referred to as a "legendary songwriter", you don't hear anything about songs from a post-81 release (save for the occasional nod given to Gyspy.)

I just found it hypocritical for her to knock her pop peers. She got breast implants, which bounced and protruded through her carefully layered clothing... In the 80's she leaped from the Lindsey sound to a pop/dance sound and adapted a phony, higher register, all for the sake of remaining a commercially viable sex symbol playing the pop/rock game, and in the process made her initial songs seem like svengali steered flukes...something she still, 3 decades later, has yet to disprove.

:wavey:

Actually I don't see it that way. I see a woman who always had a vision of what she wanted to be and stuck right with it. While others chased trends, Stevie was Stevie no matter what. The word is "icon."

Can someone explain to my why having plastic surgery would lessen one's credibilty as a performer?:confused:

Jimmy is that you?;) :D

I’m with you on this one. My personal opinion is that a lot of those ‘70s demos are great and very moving. So are the studio versions of them. But I think she lost some of her inspiration after The Wild Heart. What caused it is a mystery to me, but I’m just a monkey anyway. :)
The only demos of the later period that I like are the ones that are more arranged anyway.

Again, I agree. When she’s not working with Lindsey she tends to go very, very mainstream. It’s not that Lindsey doesn’t sometimes get mainstreamish himself, but he at least knows how to straddle the fence between the mainstream and the experimental. There’s similarity in his work, but when I first heard SYW I was very surprised by the way he had treated Stevie’s tunes. I do like RAL, OSOTM and TISL (haven’t yet found Street Angel) but the sound on those is very middle of the road. And the studio musicians add to this certain sterility. A lot of TISL sounds neutral to me because of those goddamn ProTools.

That’s right. Maybe “decent” is too harsh, I would use the word “good” myself, but the point is the same. I do realize that a lot of the fans are willing to lynch the one who has the guts to analyse her talent, but I feel like I have to speak up anyway.
What she writes these days and has written since the early ‘80s can be described as “the Nicksian drone”. And no, this doesn’t mean songs about men. That’s what her current demos sound like to me, unless they’re more arranged by other people. This means that she’s still milking those same old three chords to what it’s worth, just like she did during the ‘70s. However, this time there just isn’t that freshness anymore. If you write in a certain mode for a long time, you’re bound to run out of certain ideas, or at least your new efforts won’t be as memorable as the earlier ones. That’s what I think has happened to Stevie. Her way of writing hasn’t changed. She’s stated something like the following: all of her songs are extensions of previous ones and seem to capture only certain moods. I agree with that 100%.
So, why do I think that a lot of her songs on SYW are nearly as great as her best work? Simply because of Lindsey. If you look at what makes a song successful, it’s not the notes. The thing that matters the most is what chords are those notes against. Take something like the Beatles’ “Across The Universe”. The whole thing has a two or three note melody. If it didn’t have those rich chords and that tone colour backing it up, then no one would speak of it as a classic. Stevie writes usually with very basic chords. What a producer/arranger can do here is to make those chords richer. Lindsey’s the best for that job, but I do like the work that Jimmy Iovine, Rupert Hine and John Shanks did. They were trying to do the same thing that Lindsey did and while they didn’t succeed, they did come close, especially Iovine.

I do like some of her recent demos too, such as “Space Needle”. A lot of them just bore me though, with that drone going on. However, I don’t think an album of Stevie’s demos with no additional production work would do well at all. She needs help in certain things and I’m sure the fans accept that. Of course, if someone is actually willing to release an album like that, then it would be an interesting experiment. ;)
I wouldn’t put most of the credit on the producers’ shoulders either. I think fifty-fifty would be just right in this case. They can always hear in Stevie’s songs what someone untrained can not. A certain lyrical imagery can create a great arrangement in a producer’s head. I don’t think she’s untalented these days in songwriting, but I do think that certain people love those current demos because it’s Stevie singing them and she hasn’t changed her style. But I don’t think any of us can be truly objective in this matter. :)

Yeah, but I'm sure both Christina and Brittney will be around for a long time. They'll go through all kinds of styles, fads, and changes but they're so well-dug in to pop culture now that they won't be going anywhere soon. Look at Madonna, she started a pop empire by writhing around on the floor and being overtly sexual to get noticed and we're not asking, "whatever happened to that 'like a virgin' girl?" Even though Christina and Brittney have questionable talent, this is their livlihood, plus they have well-paid managers, and P.R. people who make sure that they will stay on top...unfortunately...

orignally posted by gldstwmn"Jimmy is that you? "


__________________

I can assure you it isn't .As much as I may disagree with some of Missionary's opinions, his/her postings contain more logic and sanity than the enitire online output of the above mentioned being.

you rock Johnny Stew... i totally agree... lol well... except for thel iking madonna part... i have never understood her... but that's a whole different topic... lol

It's a joke.:rolleyes:

Difference is, Madonna doesn't owe it to the well-paid managers and PR people. She's always been in firm control of her career. She's always written her own material for the most part. Do those other pop tarts have any creative input, or are they products of their handlers? Just because they copy Madonna's slutty formula, doesn't mean they'll succeed like her. When they take full control of their own careers or start writing a lot of their own material, maybe I'll change my mind.