This is true. It seems like a catch-22 situation, though. Keep pot illegal and you create a black market for the drug. Make it legal and you can regulate it. The same argument can be made for "victim-less" crimes, such as prostitution. To me, some legalization would make sense because you can cut out the black market and regulate things like the quality of the substance. It is intellectually inconsistent in my mind for alcohol to be legal and pot to be illegal.

Both are addicting. However, I believe that someone who chooses a beer or a shot of tequila over drugs is making a smart decision. When you have a drink, you will not die from physically drinking that drink. If you're drinking socially, there is no problem as long as you aren't falling over drunk. But when you put something up your nose or take ecstasy, you are putting your life in physical danger the very moment you take it and being irresponsible. I don't understand how ANYONE can say that they have "wisdom" and good "sense" because they are taking drugs sporadically; you're stupid if you take drugs, PERIOD.

I don't take drugs or alcohol because I'd like to lead a healthy life. I don't drink coffee or anything with caffeine, nor do I take over the counter medicines or smoke cigarettes. But when people publically shout "I TAKE DRUGS!" you better bet your ass I'm going to say how idiotic they are. If y'all don't agree, fine, continue to be stupid and take drugs. (last statement not directed toward cliffdweller! LOL)

tommer- When I was talking about legalization, I was referring to the US; I'd forgotten you're from Israel. But there is still no justification for doing drugs. Ask yourself why you need to stimulate yourself that way and think about it.

The thing is..you are pretty much right,but the fact is,it just makes for alot if idiotic people in the world,including me i guess:rolleyes: Just file it under all the other idiotic things people do,like jumping out of planes,etc...it is the SAME thing..you are taking a risk,and just hoping you end up ok. Just for the record,i am not jumping up and telling people to do drugs,i am just stating that it is reality that alot of people do.I,for one,would rather get drunk over anything else now that i have tried other stuff once or twice..E rots holes in your brain supposadly,coke is always a toss up unless you know exactly where it is coming from,Weed..yea..if i wanna chill..at least when i drink i know my limit,i NEVER drive,and i can always anticipate that the worst case scenario is one hell of a headache in the morning.

Yup. That's because it's cheaper and far more available. It kills way more people too.:(

Mhmm:distress: I've lost count of the people just from my town(with a whopping population of 20,000) who have been killed as a result of drunk driving in the last couple of years..they all happend to be young people too...

I'm still reeling from the death of a friend earlier this year. He was headed home from work when a drunk driver slammed into his car and killed him. He was just 39 years old. I have no tolerance for folks who choose to drink and drive. Drink if you want to, lord knows I like a glass every now and again myself, but please, don't get behind the wheel of a car if you do.

I am sorry about your friend :(

Believe me, my car has spent many a night in a strange parking lot waiting to be retrived in the morning! :laugh:

I'm not going to get too involved in this thread because my views are only my views. I may not agree with how someone else lives but that is their perogative. However, don't ever let your choice to use drugs, be it alcohol or other drugs (cocaine, pot etc. ) EVER endanger the lives of me or my family. If you are going to drink or do drugs, please do it in the privacy of your home with your friends and family and leave the rest of us out of it!! Too many innocent people get hurt by drunks or druggies.

Okay now that I have said that.....two words to justify NOT doing drugs...................................OZZIE OSBOURNE :laugh:

re:
 

Fiercestcalmsea, i agree with everything uv said....

Im 21 and iv just graduated from Liverpool University....and occasionally I take certain drugs. so does this mean im idiotic and stupid? I know what my limit is and i know when to stop, so as far as im concerned, this makes me NOT stupid.

and just to add in a bit about the mac, i cant say i totally agree with stevie calling the police on people who she sees using coke, i think thats a tad hypocritical, fair enough to have a word or even fire them, but to get them into serious trouble for doing something that she did for 10 years (and lets be honest, im sure she was lovin it for a good while) i think is a bit unfair. amen.
:nod:

I am 100 percent against drugs.

My father died of a heroine overdose.

He got into an accident and he started with painkillers...that wasn't enough. He smoked pot...wasn't enough...eventually it was shooting up heroine. I won't go into my pathetic childhood story...but in the end he died.

NowI could have ended up a raging druggie or not.

I drink...I do. I have alcoholism all over my family..both sides. My moms dad died of it and my dads mother as well.

But somehow I was given the curse ( or blessing) of a weak stomach that can take about 3 glasses before I throw up. Never changes.

I have smoked pot. It made me feel sick and tired. I have gone into really bad throwing up fits because of it and I act really stupid.

I don't see any point. I won't ever try anything else because I don't see the point. To lose your head isn't worth it. To ease the pain isn't worth it. Its easier to buy something fattening to eat, go on a shopping spree or sleep it off, but drugs...

Every kid I work with does drugs. Nice kids...but they ALL do it. They are younger or my age...and they all...alllllllllll do it. They spend all their money on pot and more. Most of them don't even want to. Is their lives so hard or are we so conditioned never to feel anything but pure goodness?

I just don't know. This is always a weird subject, especially since I tried pot and drink. Im not better than anyone else but I will get on the soapbox just to get people to stop. I wish they didn't even exist!

I'm so sorry to hear about that, Janet. Your post struck a chord with me because my father was also a heroin addict and there is a history of alcoholism in my family on both sides. It got so bad that my father ended robbing ten convenient stores over a one month period just to get his fix. After I discovered it, I was the one who turned him in. Now, he's in prison, but rightfully so; it's where he belongs for the things he did. It's because of things like this that I'm so set in my beliefs about drugs and why no one should take them. I feel that people who do drugs, even sporadically, are stupid for doing it. The risks that are involved and the fact that no one these days is ignorant to the effects of drugs just drive me bonkers when people say they take drugs. Add to it that people lose respect for you when you take drugs. it isn't worth it and I agree, I wish they didn't exist!

nice cliche'. but like most cliche's, it's basically true. yet again, i never claimed to be perfect in any way.
let me tell you a little secret, EVERYONE has to fill voids in their lives. some choose workoholism, some eat like pigs, some need to jump from one bed into another, other people have too many babies, and others choose to fill their voids in being misanthropes. few are the ones who manage to live their lives in a complete way which leaves nothing to be improved or avoided. too bad i'm not one of those lucky few basterds.
there must be a psychological reason for why i choose to do weed regularly, and occasionally an E (if the party justifies it).
let's just be happy that the way i choose to fill MY voids doesn't harm or risk anyone, one can't have it all, but i can take comfort in the fact that over-all i'm a pretty reliable guy, i hold responsible jobs nicely, i'm a good friend to have, an A student and i don't have a single police record whatsoever, not even a driving ticket, i stopped consuming alcohol many years ago, and i'm happy to say i'm not very dumb either.
Janet and Dissention, i'm honestly sorry for your losses, but i still don't think your attitudes should be the result of such disasters.
dissention, i know i'm not in the place to judge your actions towards your dad, i do not know the specific case, but generally speaking, i believe that drug addicts are being DRIVEN into a life of crime, i feel that it's unfair that above the fact that these people have a severe medical and psychological problem, they are being pushed to be criminals as well. as i stated earlier, i think those people do not belong in jail, they need medical and mental help instead.

But see, you're missing the point. Yes, these people are being driven to do things they wouldn't normally do, but they're the ones putting the key in the ignition. If they hadn't taken that one line, that one joint, that one shot, they wouldn't be in such horrible situations. They were the ones irresponsible enough to take drugs that could ruin their lives, they chose to do it. So, should the blame lay squarely on the shoulders of the drugs? I don't believe so; they are just as much to blame as the drugs, if not more. Drugs can't think, they can't pick and choose their victims. Human beings, however, can think; they can pick and choose to do things that could seriously effect their lives. The people who get addicted to drugs and commit horrible acts are responsible for taking drugs and committing horrible acts. If they hadn't had such a terrible lapse of good sense, they wouldn't in such dire circumstances.

If someone is a criminal, caught possessing narcotics and they are found to be addicted, do you just give them medical treatment and let them go free? Or should you give them medical treatment and then have them face the courts for their crimes? I know what I'd choose.

Give them medical treatment, of course. But don't let them off the hook just because of their "illness." If they've committed crimes, make them pay for them.

The point that immediately comes to mind (and always does for me in these discussions) is that most people refer to "drugs" as though it's a single homogeneous group of substances. There's a world of difference between pot and heroin. And then here's cocaine and speed, also pretty damn different. I actually think pot is more benign than alcohol.

I'm also a big believer in personal responsibility. I don't really think drug possession on it's own should be a crime, but if you steal, it's a crime regardless of the reason. And there's tons of ways to screw up your life even without drugs, and I suspect there are pot smokers all over the honor rolls.

Remember, no one falls into a simple set of labels... :nod:

But what about possession with intent to distribute? What if someone was arrested for possessing heroin and if they hadn't been arrested, that person would have sold it to a 15-year-old child? I'm not attacking you, I'm seriously asking your opinion on this. :) :p

Stevie went into rehab after her Rock A Little tour in 1986. She was clean by the time Tango was being created. She may have been moody during those sessions, but she certainly wasn't doing cocaine. Lindsey's biggest beef with Stevie was that she didn't make herself very available for the sessions. That fact is evident by her scant (and questionable) representation on the album.

Hey! Nobody has mentioned John McVie's drug bust (in the early eighties) for unregistered firearms and cocaine. Anyone remember that? I recall his wife/girlfriend? was also arrested.

WOULD have sold it to a 15 year old child? Maybe, maybe not. Let's face it, a 15 year old can get their hands on cigarettes or beer or porn or a gun or any number of other things if they really want to. That's life in a free society. And all those things ARE a crime, so again, if you commit a crime you should be held responsible for that. So if (in my model) possession alone isn't a crime, then it would take until that sale happens, and then there would be a crime.

I don't have a problem with legalizing pot. It would allow for some regulation (yes, SOME re my comment above about alcohol, guns, etc.) and I figure we could tax the hell out of it (like cigarretes and alcohol) and use the money to deal with harder drugs (education, treatment...) which I don't think should be legal. I would frankly like to see the cops leave the potheads alone and concentrate on the drugs that really DO kill people. I've never heard of anyone dying of a pot overdose or committing armed robbery so they could buy pot.

No offense taken! This has turned into an interesting and refreshingly civil discussion. If only we could be this civil in our opinions of Stevie and Lindsey! :laugh:

Janet
 

I am very sorry to hear about your Dad. My father is a drug addict..I don't have alot of contact with him..he signed me away when i was little,although i do still see him b/c he lives with my grandmother.I am just waiting for the day when someone tells me he is dead....Everyone has tried to help him..he doesn't want to be helped..so there is really nothing anyone can do.It hasn't really made me anti-drugs though..because i am very conscious of what i am doing and what i don't want to do...so for all the things i may dabble in,i never ever let it go too far cause i know i never want to end up like my father.

I have already posted earlier what drugs have done to my son. My ex husband is now an alcoholic. Now I'm going to make some people squirm here a minuite.
I don't think any one in the Mac just one day woke up and started doing coke and acid. It all started from some where, alittle drink here and a little toke here.
The fact is we are all trying to fill that void in our lives with something, drugs, sex, shopping or what ever.
And that void is getting bigger as the world gets tougher.
Maybe be that void that every one has needs to be filled with God, your creator. He is the only one that can fill that void.
He's the one that can take the pain away. Run to Him and not to the drugs. So are you squirming yet?

Nope.I had 10 years of Catholic School to do that. Please don't get me wrong,i am not mocking what you are saying at all,because i do agree that it is much more benefical to seek God than it is to knock back a bottle of Smirnoff.I am sure people seek drugs to fill a void,and if that is the case,it is sad.When i drink,etc,it is to have a good time..I am 22 years old..i like to party..i am not drinking away any major problems or anything...i have the sense to realize that if i was doing that,i'd have a problem on my hands.I am sorry about your sons,Alison...my brother is the same way..it is very,very sad:distress:

kinda. i guess that if i'd wanna get addicted to irrational thinking i'd rather choose heroin, at least this way there's gonna be some fun times along the way.

kinda. i guess that if i'd wanna get addicted to irrational thinking i'd rather choose heroin, at least this way there's gonna be some fun times along the way.

So tommer are you saying anyone that has a belief in God and Jesus is irrational, and is thinking that way?
Are you saying you rather be on drugs, and that is not Irrational?
That is a very judgemental of you and offensive to other belivers on this board. But you are intitled to your opinon just as I am.
Belive me, God is not boring, and serving Him is fun. And I don't wake up to any regrets or hangovers.
God bless you TOMMER.

Somehow i didn't read it that way..I suppose it is just that when people mention the whole God subject,it gets a little touchy...Yes,if you have a strong belief in something,that should be respected,totally.It is just when you start saying that others should have that same belief,it gets messy. I beleive in God,i pray...but i don't even go to church that much anymore..like i said,Catholic school did me in...having religion shoved down your throat is not alot of fun.The Catholic church has many,many flaws as far as i am concerned...but that is another rant for another time..my point is..Tommer was expressing his opinion in reaction to someone else's..he doesn't need to be thrown in the river and baptized....If you believe in God,if you love God and want to serve him...awesome for you...but as far as what i have been taught..God does not want you to judge others either..so if someone doesn't agree with you..just let it go..

actually sarah, alison got me right more than you have, i don't JUDGE anyone's beliefs, but FOR ME religion IS an irrational way of thinking.
last time i practiced religion (which was unwillingly and more than 30 years ago) i got cut in the dick!!! :eek:

:laugh:

Watch out for that lightning bolt :laugh:

I really do respect all religious beliefs. I just can't stand it when someone tells me mine are wrong. No one and I mean no one I know follows all of the teachings of the Bible. For example, who has not eaten shellfish or pork for that matter? Who does not mix fibers in their clothing? When was the last time you owned a slave from a permissable as opposed to an unpermissable place? When was the last time adulters and adulteresses were both stoned to death? Who has always turned the other cheek? Who has always loved others as they love themselves? Who has never coveted?

Does our failure in these areas mean we are all bad people? In my opinion it does not. I think it just means we have to live within the parameters we set for ourselves and always strive for the high road no matter how hard that is.

Note: I am in no way mocking these things or anyone's beliefs. I am just using them as examples to prove my point that the Bible is up to interpretation and that when people force their interpretations on me - I just cry foul and think that is why people get upset or nervous whenever someone with good intentions tries to show the way to God. Interestingly, most of the people I have known that have gone through substance abuse treatment have found religion. So, it must work for some if not a bunch of people.

I agree with you. we all need to learn how to deal, how to fill those holes. Spirituality is one way and there are many positive others in addition to that.

And yes Sugar, no one falls into a simple set of labels but do you remember the rest of that quote? He says "I think it's even more important to learn from your mistakes and to fight-to fight for the positive choice."

Which part? The ****ting your pants or throwing up?

That is exactly what I was trying to say earlier!!!!! Thanks!!! Boy - it sure can be hard to live by that. For some reason it is easier not to but "faith [in anything] is hard to thing to hold on to - something inside you says I don't have to" :cool:

That's because "temptation falls in your path...no hesitation...why, you ask?":nod:

:laugh:

All this makes me think of my favorite quote by Marilyn Monroe:

"I often find 'What the Hell' is the best answer to most questions"

:cool:

So, um
 

Basically what you guys are trying to tell me is that Christine was way buttered on coke back in the day. Right? :laugh:

You are correct, sir! :laugh: :laugh:

Susie

OK cool. So Christine did some serious cocaine.

Thanks for clearing that up everybody!:laugh: