The Ledge
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The Ledge (http://ledge.fleetwoodmac.net/index.php)
-   The Early Years (http://ledge.fleetwoodmac.net/forumdisplay.php?f=1)
-   -   Why Bob Should Be in the RARHOF (http://ledge.fleetwoodmac.net/showthread.php?t=53390)

Wendy Welch 03-20-2014 01:41 AM
Apology in Order
 
SteveMacD, I owe you an apology. You are absolutely right about the release date of "Heroes". I am so sorry, I got confused over the fact that it was five albums and not five years. Please accept my apology. But still, I must say you are wrong about Bob's start date with FM and the date he left. But I am so glad that someone that was born three years after Bob was in Fm is such a fan.

At least give me credit for being the only wife, girlfriend or FM member that has her own site run by him or herself that knew the players and will at least engage with you, even though I do make mistakes sometimes. All the rest I stand by, and will answer the questions you have to the best of my knowledge .:sorry:

mylittledemon 03-20-2014 02:26 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Wendy Welch (Post 1122681)
I have never been called a lunatic before, but that's your opinion and there's always a first time
Wendy please don't mistake me... Regarding people who were not able to join The Ledge, you specifically asked the question "Now why would that be?"... the insinuation of which is that we're keeping Bob Welch fans off this site. That is lunacy.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Wendy Welch (Post 1122681)
But you can go on my facebook and see what many have said over the past 1 1/2 years about it, besides the personal messages I have received, especially just recently. So I don't believe I have made this up or that one person has made me think that quite a few people have not been accepted on The Ledge.
Why would I search through 18 months of your Facebook postings? To what end? I never said I didn't believe you. If we're only talking 30 people over an 18 month period who've not been able to join, I wouldn't call that an aberration... I'd call it pretty average stats for a message board of this size. Feel free to direct such complaints to me or any of the moderators here so we can get people on board who wish to be.

elle 03-20-2014 06:59 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by aleuzzi (Post 1122693)
The suggestion to lobby for the 71-74 albums on iTunes is a good one.
Quote:
Originally Posted by SteveMacD (Post 1122678)
The reality is that there's a whole new generation getting interested in Fleetwood Mac who don't necessarily buy physical media. They've grown up downloading music. They can't download Bob's music.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Wendy Welch (Post 1122700)
As far as I tunes is concerned, he does have many songs on UTube, I tunes, etc. that can be downloaded. But the record companies have control over that, not myself or Mick or FM. The music business is very complicated. FM has to OK it, but the record company has to want to do it first. And I am no newcomer to the industry!
if Bob's music is available on youtube, then it's available to new generations and people can download it, although it may not be the cleanest versions. but still, there's no reason to have it specifically on itunes. :nod:

welcomechris 03-20-2014 07:28 PM
Most of Bob's Solo Work Is on Itunes.

No FM Albums From 1971-1974 Are On Itunes (In the US)

PS I So Happy To Be An Addicted Ledgie!

Wendy Welch 03-20-2014 08:15 PM
Why would that be?
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by mylittledemon (Post 1122706)
Wendy please don't mistake me... Regarding people who were not able to join The Ledge, you specifically asked the question "Now why would that be?"... the insinuation of which is that we're keeping Bob Welch fans off this site. That is lunacy.



Why would I search through 18 months of your Facebook postings? To what end? I never said I didn't believe you. If we're only talking 30 people over an 18 month period who've not been able to join, I wouldn't call that an aberration... I'd call it pretty average stats for a message board of this size. Feel free to direct such complaints to me or any of the moderators here so we can get people on board who wish to be.
Actually the 30 people have been in the last week on my facebook, both public and personal messages. "Why would that be?" is only asking the question, why can't they get on "The Ledge"? and what can I do to help them?

SteveMacD 03-20-2014 08:15 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Wendy Welch (Post 1122705)
SteveMacD, I owe you an apology. You are absolutely right about the release date of "Heroes". I am so sorry, I got confused over the fact that it was five albums and not five years. Please accept my apology.
Accepted. I get that there's frustration with all of this.

Quote:
But still, I must say you are wrong about Bob's start date with FM and the date he left.
Well, what ARE the dates? I've ventured to guess Bob joined sometime between late March to early May, without ever having seen a specific date, based solely on the FACT that Peter Green was with them until at least last March to finish the "Kiln House" tour, and that Bob's first gig was in very early June. That doesn't leave a whole lot of time, a month or two at most, which borders on minutiae. Bottom line: we fans know that Peter was playing with them in late winter/early spring and that Bob was playing live with them in early June. So, sometime between those two events Bob must've joined.

As for when he left, I'm not backing down on that one. Bob never played or had any intentions of playing with Fleetwood Mac as a member after December 31, 1974, which is the date they asked Lindsey and Stevie to join. If there's any proof to suggest otherwise, I'd love to see it. If there's anything to suggest Bob had any intentions of being in the band with Buckingham and Nicks, please show it.

aleuzzi 03-20-2014 08:34 PM
^^^so, to return to the original point of contention, Bob's tenure with Fleetwood Mac lasted anywhere from 3.5 to 3.75 years, which is what you surmised earlier.

Anyway one slices it, Bob accomplished A LOT in those years. Five albums and five or six tours in 3.5 years is incredible.

He wrote 20 originals, sang lead on as many songs (not including Keep On Going, but including his cover vocal of For Your Love), and was active in the production, the arrangements, the band's live presence, and eventually its management. A hell of a legacy.

Neither those 71-74 records nor his solo work would have likely surpassed the 300,000 sales mark without the sudden resurgence of the band in 75-76, but there's no question he contributed mightily to the Mac and kept the flame lit. I would be shocked if anyone who visits this site would disagree with that conclusion.

Again, the suggestion to work at getting the 71-74 material available on iTunes is excellent.

elle 03-20-2014 08:40 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by aleuzzi (Post 1122744)
Again, the suggestion to work at getting the 71-74 material available on iTunes is excellent.
and how would you all suggest to go about it, and who should do it? Mick? i have a feeling WBs are not big on listening to their artists. :shrug:

elle 03-20-2014 08:43 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by SteveMacD (Post 1122741)
Bob never played or had any intentions of playing with Fleetwood Mac as a member after December 31, 1974, which is the date they asked Lindsey and Stevie to join. If there's any proof to suggest otherwise, I'd love to see it. If there's anything to suggest Bob had any intentions of being in the band with Buckingham and Nicks, please show it.
i love this discussion actually. especially considering that Mick, Keith Olsen, Christine, Lindsey and Stevie all seem to have slightly different versions, embellished for better story-telling effect. Wendy says something a bit different now.

so is all we have to go on for what we thought happened their stories or there is something else too?

aleuzzi 03-20-2014 08:44 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by elle (Post 1122745)
and how would you all suggest to go about it, and who should do it? Mick? i have a feeling WBs are not big on listening to their artists. :shrug:
I am not sure. But if Bob himself was able to get a lot of his solo material on iTunes, I'm sure the band, if they pressed for it, could get the 71-74 material on.

There would have to be some pressure put on Fleetwood and the McVies to do this. Particularly Mick. I think that undertaking would be more worthwhile for Bib's legacy than the RRHOF situation.

That said, if the band changed its mind and asked for Bob to be included retroactively, I'd be thrilled to hear it.

sharksfan2000 03-20-2014 09:31 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by aleuzzi (Post 1122750)
I am not sure. But if Bob himself was able to get a lot of his solo material on iTunes, I'm sure the band, if they pressed for it, could get the 71-74 material on.
FWIW, Then Play On and Kiln House are not on iTunes either, so it's not as if there is some kind of effort just to keep out the albums that Bob Welch played on. But I have no idea what the reason is that all these albums are not available on iTunes.

aleuzzi 03-20-2014 09:38 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by sharksfan2000 (Post 1122760)
FWIW, Then Play On and Kiln House are not on iTunes either, so it's not as if there is some kind of effort just to keep out the albums that Bob Welch played on. But I have no idea what the reason is that all these albums are not available on iTunes.
True. I think it's a Warner issue. There is a lot of music from 68-70 but it's all non Warner's.

SteveMacD 03-20-2014 09:59 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by aleuzzi (Post 1122761)
True. I think it's a Warner issue. There is a lot of music from 68-70 but it's all non Warner's.
It could also be a Clifford-Mich issue. "Penguin" and MTM were, respectively, the last two albums from the Warner's vault to be reissued on CD back in the very early 1990s.

Still, that's where I see the good fight being.

mylittledemon 03-20-2014 10:00 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Wendy Welch (Post 1122740)
"Why would that be?" is only asking the question
Well it isn't just that... which is why I wanted to make it clear. I know it isn't just that because you stated in the past that "Fleetwood Mac runs this site"... which simply isn't true. We have no directive, input, and/or involvement whatsoever from the band or anyone associated with them. We all love Bob, so there's no one here with an agenda behind the scenes hindering you, nor hindering Bob's legacy, or any such thing of that sort. Sweet? Good stuff.

SteveMacD 03-20-2014 10:02 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by elle (Post 1122748)
i love this discussion actually. especially considering that Mick, Keith Olsen, Christine, Lindsey and Stevie all seem to have slightly different versions, embellished for better story-telling effect. Wendy says something a bit different now.
The one constant, though, is everybody else has maintained that it was New Years Eve, 1974. After that, Bob wasn't really part of the Mac's equation.

elle 03-20-2014 11:08 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by SteveMacD (Post 1122765)
The one constant, though, is everybody else has maintained that it was New Years Eve, 1974. After that, Bob wasn't really part of the Mac's equation.
weren't they all saying forever that they met just once in some mexican restaurant and that was it - one phone call one mexican restaurant meet and they were in... but then Christine recently said that they actually had 2 meetings, once in that mexican restaurant and once at Mick's (i think?) house? and i can't really remember exactly, but i think these 2 meetings were not at exact NYE timeline that we were hearing about forever?

SteveMacD 03-20-2014 11:28 PM
I've never understood the meetings themselves to be on New Year's Eve. Just that they got the call on NYE. And, the way I understood Christine's comments is that Stevie and Lindsey met at Mick's house before they went to the Mexican restaurant, which is different from the other accounts, but not that different. In all cases, Bob was out on NYE, 1974.

Wendy Welch 03-23-2014 11:56 PM
So many accusations
 
I want to make it very clear that I NEVER said that Fleetwood Mac ran this site. Anyone that says that should show me where I said it.

Also in England you should be advised that Reprise Records was Warner Brothers!

michelej1 03-24-2014 12:02 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Wendy Welch (Post 1122983)
I want to make it very clear that I NEVER said that Fleetwood Mac ran this site. Anyone that says that should show me where I said it.
You said it here.

http://www.ledge.fleetwoodmac.net/sh...39&postcount=2

Quote:
Why would they close y thread for Bob being regarding Bob being deleted by FM when so many had responses to make. Does tht not tell you who is discrediting who. They must even own this site as well, or why would thread have been closed? Ask yourselves that question. Also, all other sites of FM have deleted Bob Welch's credentials. Doesn't that make you see things in the real light of day/11

Wendy Welch 03-24-2014 12:02 AM
Mamagement has NO control/ It's Warners
 
I personally believe that Warner's has not released those songs from '68 to 74 because they have a boxed set to sell and until that's done , those songs won't be released.

I also must add that Clifford Davis/Adams has no control over the masters being released on I tunes or any other form of download.

welcomechris 03-24-2014 06:00 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Wendy Welch (Post 1122985)
I personally believe that Warner's has not released those songs from '68 to 74 because they have a boxed set to sell and until that's done , those songs won't be released.

I also must add that Clifford Davis/Adams has no control over the masters being released on I tunes or any other form of download.
Well I Highly Doubt it's Warners Fault! Fleetwood Mac Wants To Get Rid of the 1971-1974 Era.

To Mick, There Was 2 Eras. Of Fleetwood Mac
  • Blues Era
  • Rumours Era

Sadly, Not One of Bob's Singles with FM Charted

aleuzzi 03-24-2014 07:39 AM
^^^And Warner's does not control a good bulk of the blues-era stuff.

Wendy Welch 03-24-2014 11:41 PM
Blues Era
 
Who do you think controls it!

Wendy Welch 03-24-2014 11:42 PM
Blues Era
 
Who do you think controls it, if not Warner's /Reprise?

SteveMacD 03-24-2014 11:53 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Wendy Welch (Post 1123038)
Who do you think controls it, if not Warner's /Reprise?
I think the blues era material is actually owned by Sony. It was on Blue Horizon, which was a subsidiary of CBS. CBS is now a part of Sony. The first two Fleetwood Mac records released in the United States were on Epic. After the label went defunct in 1971, and Fleetwood Mac became superstars in 1975, Squire Records, which is a subsidiary of Warners, released the recordings in the United States only. I think the mechanicals are still owned by Mike Vernon from Blue Verizon.

sharksfan2000 03-25-2014 12:51 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by SteveMacD (Post 1123039)
I think the blues era material is actually owned by Sony. It was on Blue Horizon, which was a subsidiary of CBS. CBS is now a part of Sony. The first two Fleetwood Mac records released in the United States were on Epic. After the label went defunct in 1971, and Fleetwood Mac became superstars in 1975, Squire Records, which is a subsidiary of Warners, released the recordings in the United States only. I think the mechanicals are still owned by Mike Vernon from Blue Verizon.
FWIW, the "Complete Blue Horizon Sessions" box set looks like it was a joint release by Sire (which is owned by Warner) and Blue Horizon. The box states "Marketed and distributed by Sire Records Inc. under exclusive license for the USA and Canada," although the individual CDs state "Blue Horizon Records for the USA and Canada and Sony Music Enertainment (UK) Ltd. for the world outside the USA and Canada."

The collection of the band's three Blue Horizon albums here is listed under Sony UK:
www.amazon.com/Original-Album-Classics-Fleetwood-Mac/dp/B0030BCCB6/

Similarly, The Best of Peter Green's Fleetwood Mac was released under the Columbia Europe label, which is owned by Sony:
www.amazon.com/The-Best-Peter-Greens-Fleetwood/dp/B000075AJ1/
...although this collection also includes some tracks from their Warner releases, presumably licensed from them to appear on this collection.

And then other releases from the Peter Green period have come out on other labels including Castle, Snapper, and Receiver.

Don't know if that makes things more clear or just the opposite!

Wendy Welch 03-25-2014 10:07 PM
Welch Fleetwood Mac publishing
 
Right now I am just trying to find out who is being paid publishing for Bob's first four albums with FM. All the companies I have contacted deny ownership, including the one listed on ASCAP. It has been a nightmare for me, and very difficult to close probate without it. If anyone has any ideas, I would love to hear them. I've been to Europe and back.

Everytime I get on a roll, I get sick again, and am doing everything myself. I just had heart surgery again about 3 weeks ago, and was hospitalized with heart failure and copd a year ago last November and two weeks after Bob died, I caught pneumonia and had two relapses all the way thru September leaving me on 24 hour oxygen. I don't talk about my health much, but actually I could use all the help I can get with this publishing problem. It's very difficult to pay attorneys right now since I have not been able to close probate and get the money out yet.

HomerMcvie 03-26-2014 01:52 AM
I'm sorry, Wendy, that you're having to try to deal with all this legal stuff...

And to say that I(or most of us, or "you" even) have ANY clue on dealing with all the legal mumbo jumbo. Especially given your health concerns lately. I know it's frustrating....I'm sorry. I hope it gets better, and some resolution is found, soon.

iamnotafraid 03-26-2014 03:11 AM
Is there a more shady business than the music business?

Elvis Presley Enterprises (E.P.E) have been in a constant fight
with the record companies since Elvis died. The argument
seems to stem from artist(s) not having foreseen of what is
now legal downloading of their music. They signed away
something that was not in existence when the contracts
were originally signed.

E.P.E. has won some of these cases domestically. Now they're
going after some European record companies. This case, if won
will not only benefit Elvis' heirs, but many other artists and their
families.

These cases take time and much money. Wendy, you hang in
there. I hope you get what you deserve. And that includes peace
of mind.

DanR53 03-27-2014 05:38 PM
Personally, I want to think "What's the big deal?" The R & R Hall of fame has numerous 'snubs' including the previously mentioned Doug Yule (which is ridiculous) and the fact that they decided to wait a year to induct The Dave Clark Five so they could induct a hip hop group or someone of that nature, while Mike Smith (their lead singer) passed away in the meantime missing his last time in the spotlight. The R & R Hall of Fame is a (you-know-what) stain according to Johnny Rotten and I happen to agree. So, Bob Welch isn't the only one who had been snubbed. All that being said, if it was his wish to be in the Hall, I fully support and hope for the best regarding Wendy Welch's crusade to get him in. I imagine it will happen one day when Christine is no longer needed by Mick, probably when the band hangs it up for good.

Wendy Welch 03-27-2014 09:44 PM
Amen re: Christine
 
But that won't happen anytime soon.

It was not so much about the Hall of Fame, but the fact that she didn't want him in vindictively and Mick went along with it. That is what hurt Bob. It was NOT:shrug: the HofF that didn't let him in, but his own band. Disgraceful and very hurtful to Bob who was always so loyal to them.

SteveMacD 03-27-2014 11:19 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Wendy Welch (Post 1123527)
But that won't happen anytime soon.

It was not so much about the Hall of Fame, but the fact that she didn't want him in vindictively and Mick went along with it. That is what hurt Bob. It was NOT:shrug: the HofF that didn't let him in, but his own band. Disgraceful and very hurtful to Bob who was always so loyal to them.
Wendy, I understand what you are saying. And, I kind of agree with it. However, I also understand why Christine would have been miffed by the lawsuit, and not wanted Bob anywhere near the ceremony.

At the end of the day, the six people who were on the stage were the hit makers for the band. However, in light of the Kiss induction, I'm not sure how much influence the band actually had. So Christine said that she would not go up on stage with Bob. Whatever. I'm not sure he was actually ever going to be inducted. I'm not sure I really care what Mick says at this point.

By the way, I am the one who broke to the Fleetwood Mac newsgroup at the time that Bob Welch and the others were not going to be included, and it really pissed me off. I had a weird hunch he'd be left out based on other bands, such as Jefferson Airplane. The Hall of Fame is a joke.

jeremy spencer 03-28-2014 05:17 PM
If the RRHOF is what some people are saying it is, why is there so much clamouring for its imprimatur?

welcomechris 03-28-2014 05:33 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by jeremy spencer (Post 1123678)
If the RRHOF is what some people are saying it is, why is there so much clamouring for its imprimatur?
I Believe Some People (Wendy Welch, etc.) Feel Better If He's Included Too.

Of Course, You Were Included Because You Were A Founder and You Were Part of The Very Popular Blues Era. Of Fleetwood Mac.


(PS Jeremy, LOVE Your New Album!)

SteveMacD 03-29-2014 09:38 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by jeremy spencer (Post 1123678)
If the RRHOF is what some people are saying it is, why is there so much clamouring for its imprimatur?
Because it used to be amazing. The induction ceremonies were epic moments in the pantheon of rock history.

But then a long series of snubs ensued, and it's become a huge punchline ever since.

iamnotafraid 03-29-2014 10:19 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by SteveMacD (Post 1123886)
But then a long series of snubs ensued, and it's become a huge punchline ever since.
I think it's more of "who" they've included that make it such a joke.

Wendy Welch 03-29-2014 10:29 PM
Chris is mad? Bob was Mad!!!!
 
:blob2: You say Chris was mad, Steve MacD? You must be kidding, it was Bob that Probably had a right and was furious at what was done before. Don't you think he should have been if you should dig a little deeper? Obviously I can't comment past the original lawsuit that was in public domaine, but I wish I could!

SteveMacD 03-29-2014 11:00 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Wendy Welch (Post 1123905)
:blob2: You say Chris was mad, Steve MacD? You must be kidding, it was Bob that Probably had a right and was furious at what was done before. Don't you think he should have been if you should dig a little deeper? Obviously I can't comment past the original lawsuit that was in public domaine, but I wish I could!
To be clear, I am not saying Bob didn't have a good reason or right to sue or to be angry with them. I sympathize more with Bob on that than the band. However I could see where they might not especially like somebody after being sued by them, and, one of the three people who may have had an issue with Bob at the time was basically a member or an associate of the band from the very beginning. You are reacting to the details of the case, which as you noted, are not public information. I'm just examining typical human behavior.

However, in light of what happened with the Kiss induction, I really don't know how much input the band actually had. Fleetwood Mac was eligible for induction in 1992, but it didn't happen for them for six years after the fact. I suspect they were just happy to be inducted at all at that point, and it was decided that they would not fight for any of the other members of the band who were wrongly excluded from induction, but especially one that just sued them. I am definitely not saying that was right, I'm just trying to give a possible explanation to the situation in light of recent events.

cabwinn 03-30-2014 08:47 AM
http://ledge.fleetwoodmac.net/showthread.php?t=53390
 
Yes he should definitley be included!!!!!! Please do so for his legacy!!!



Quote:
Originally Posted by welcomechris (Post 1122390)
Bob’s Biggest Hit

Sentimental Lady Has Reached One Milllion Six Hundred Thirty-Four Thousand Two Hundred Seventy-Two [1634272] Views on YouTube! Sentimental Lad11111!!!!!y has been covered by Various Artists over 100 Times. It has been on Popular Soundtracks Including ‘Remember Me’ and ‘Grown Ups’. Sentimental Lady reached #8 on the Billboard Charts and gave the world the true definition of “Classic Rock”.

In 1978 Bob Welch & Friends some from Fleetwood Mac Performed at Cal Jam II
Bob Performed Some of his Best Songs from Fleetwood Mac, Paris, and His New Solo Career. He was joined on stage by Christine McVie, Stevie Nicks, and Mick Fleetwood. He Performed the hits “Hypnotized”, “Sentimental Lady”, and “Ebony Eyes” and 5 Other Songs.

He Spent 3 Years With Fleetwood Mac

Bob Also Convinced the band to move to L.A. which later introduced Buckingham Nicks to Mick Fleetwood. He Was on the Fleetwood Mac albums:

*Future Games (1971) - #91 (Billboard Top 200)

*Bare Trees (1972) - #70 (Billboard Top 200)
- Sentimental Lady - FM Radio Hit

*Penguin (1973) - #49 (Billboard Top 200)

*Mystery To Me (1973) - #67 (Billboard Top 200)
- Hypnotized - FM Radio Hit

*Heroes Are Hard to Find (1974) - #34 (Billboard Top 200)

_________________________________________________________________

Bob Welch Charts

Bob Welch: Mainstream Rock 1982

“It’s What Ya Don’t Say” - #45


Bob Welch “The Hot 100”


“Church” - #73
“Precious Love” - #19
“Hot Love, Cold World” - #31
“Ebony Eyes” - #14
“Sentimental Lady” - #8


Bob Welch “Top 200”

French Kiss - #12
Three Hearts - #20



Paris Charts

Paris Top 200

Big Towne, 2061 - #152
Paris - #103

Wendy Welch 03-31-2014 10:29 PM
Fm/rrhof
 
They did not have to fight to get somebody in the RRHOF. Chris fought to keep somebody out of the FM RRHOF. That's a fact!
:shrug:


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