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They come to rock. On another note. The Pretenders are great but fit better as an opening band for Journey than Stevie Nicks ;) |
I saw Journey in Oct, at their residency in Vegas. A number of the group that we were with were very....."meh..." about seeing them. I was super excited and I've seen them on their tours.
Every single person was completely stunned at the quality and professionalism that they displayed. And although Arnel is not Steve Perry, he is every bit as good vocally. It was really fun, high energy and we all sang Journey songs all the way back to the hotel. |
Well, sure, Stone in Love is on my playlist, too. (I concede its value as a workout tool.) But while Journey was churning out empty, fist-pumping pseudo-cocky sing-along anthems and schmaltzy ballads that could have been written by record label execs, Chrissie Hynde and James Honeyman-Scott and Pete Farndon and Martin Chambers were making rock history on their first two albums, kicking the living daylights out of all the bland corporate crap that monopolized the airwaves in 1980. I know many years have passed—and the loser now will be later to win, in Dylan’s great words—but it’s still weird to see the Pretenders tour with Journey. What hath time wrought? Is John Lydon going to go out on the road with Air Supply? Public Enemy and Bruno Mars—an idiotic publicist’s dream?
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Stevie in theory is better than Stevie in practice. Dare we say it? |
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However, she still sells a lot of tickets and is somehow the only woman in the HoF twice (weirdly before Tina Turner or Grace Slick), hence her power within the band. Ken might have said it best: Quote:
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demanding and angry are two different things. I have no doubt LB is demanding; he's a perfectionist and I'm sure gets short-tempered when things go wrong. Demanding is situational. Angry is a permanent character trait. I don't think he is angry as a permanent trait. I am sure like everyone he can get angry, probably super angry, when the situation warrants it, like, I dunno, your band firing you and lying about it. Maybe that even played a role in his heart attack, WTF knows.:shrug:
Listen we've heard from many people at the time that LB was not like super-fun party animal guy during the making of Tusk. He was on a mission to make a statement and not everyone was in the same headspace. Kudos to them for letting him take the ball and run with it. But geez that was literally 40 effing years ago. Nearly HALF A CENTURY AGO. FFS no one is the same exact person they were 40 years ago. It's like Ken's memory is set in amber, frozen in time...... get.over.it.:nod: |
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yes, Ken knew Lindsey in 1979. that was 40 years ago. by his own admission, he doesn't know Lindsey now. and yet, he has no qualms about extrapolating the character of somebody now from how they were 40+ years ago, in their 20s, high and out of their minds on drugs, fame, pressure, and intra-band relationship turmoils. Ken seems to be the bitter and angry one towards the band and its members. and yes various band members may have been bitter, high, angry and driven back in the 70s when they were all in their late 20s or even 30s. that doesn't mean that band members are bitter and angry and whatever else Ken makes up because - by his own admission - he has no contact with them now and no clue how they are now. actually, Ken replied to me on social media back in April 2018 when he was first spreading band's now debunked 'he didn't want to tour for a year" story that he heard that from someone who works for the band, who was told by Mick. by then, many fans already knew for 3 months what actually happened - and what was later proven as the truth that even the band had to half-cough-up to by the end of their last year's tour. so Ken was told band's PR story while there were a good number of fans that had inside info. :shrug: seems pretty certain that fans have way better insider sources than Ken has these days. or fans care to know what the truth is, while Ken is just trying to sell his book by attempting to answer questions thrown at him by trying to pretend that he's still in the know and in contact with the band. after huge backlash on social media for spreading untruths, Ken has now a facebook post stating that's the trouble with interviews, questions come at you too fast - or something like that. the thing is, Ken - however fast questions may come at you, making up answers about real people - and in fact making up the whole conversations that never happened - is not the right answer. :nod: |
half-back on topic of the thread.
reading the lawsuit from last year, it became clear that FM doesn't seem to exist as a legal entity between projects. they come together and sign contracts for specific projects - be that a tour, a gig, or in the past various albums and releases. which means that at this moment, Fleetwood Mac as a band doesn't legally exist in any formation. when talking about Fleetwood Mac, you can talk about Peter Green's band, various in-between incarnations, or the most well known Classic Fleetwood Mac - which is what masses are referring to when saying FM. but at present time, there is no present band. Lindsey is not really ex-FM member - or they all are. :thumbsup: |
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Entangling Stevie's personal management as band management as well is a disastrous arrangement for the band. Great for Stevie though! And then for LB to sign on Azoff as his own personal manager :eek: I can only imagine that the strategy behind that was that having him as your manager he has to consider the impact of band business on you as a solo act. But that's an awfully risky strategy considering Azoff's management style of focusing on the bigger $$$ or higher profile clients (i.e., Stevie). Or maybe he though Irving could make them more like the Eagles, i.e. the way LB always says "those other bands who know what they want and want it at the same time" and can come together to make money whether they like each other or not. The only other logic I can imagine is that LB indeed wanted to boost his ticket sales, marketing, profile in a more mainstream way (seems out of character, but who knows). The two just seem like a bad mix to me either way. :shrug: |
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I don’t think it’s right, but I at least understand the logic behind it. Quote:
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Irving’s motivation to be the Stevie whisper went out the window, replaced by his instinct to put in well known, popular musicians in already popular bands… Lindsey wanted Fleetwood Mac to be more like the Eagles. Wish granted! |
my opinion
I NEVER buy into these breakups. I think Lindsey was aware of his heart condition and they all knew he could not do the tour. The 'estrangement' was staged for the press and social, to keep the cash flowing, and Lindsey will be back in the fold.
Just as he did Twister with her in 96 *when they were supposed to be at odds* and he played on IYD *after she was so 'miserable' after the no Christine tours*. It's all PR. They'll do a farewell tour with the Rumours 5. |
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He sued them. Not threatened. Actually sued. Papers were filed with the courts and a settlement was agreed to. This isn't 1996. Or 1997. Or 1987. Hell, it's not even 2014. They are OLD. Their contemporaries are dropping like flies on a regular basis. Time is NOT on any of their sides. Planning some elaborate, hidden, stunt, that needs to have 3-4 years to fully play out....it just isn't in the cards at this point. After how he was treated, I don't even want another Rumours tour. Not even a big final tour. It will be absolute garbage at this point. Fake hugs and warm glances? Give me a break. What else is there to prove? Nicks won't record anything new with the band, so what is there in another tour (other than the obviou$)? They reunited in 1997 and it was absolutely amazing. Then in 2014, out of the middle of nowhere, they unexpectedly reunited yet again and toured the world. It was unexpected, and it gave people like myself who were fans for decades but were 16 years old and not in attendance at The Dance tour a chance to see the five of them together. It was great...but the performances on stage certainly weren't Dance-era level. But at 33/34 years old, I got that chance and even kind of got a Tango in the Night focused concert with the four cuts. But now? For what? After what has gone on for the last two years, anything further with the five of them would just be downright gross. |
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I still think we will never have an objective complete info about what happened with those 5. None is telling the complete truth, IMHO.
Smashing Interviews Magazine: And along came Neil Finn. Ken Caillat: Right, and he was the solution. Well, it was a practical solution for a tour. But in the end, for the band, that was not a solution at all. |
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I guess the reconfigured tour served its humble (or not so humble) purpose. Nobody will look back on it in 20 years and say anything other than a straightforwardly descriptive “It happened.” It put “money in the bank but no gas in the tank.” |
I hope this version of "Fleetwood Mac" goes away forever and that we never hear from the band again, even if Lindsey were to return.
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To me the most interesting thing to witness out of all of the 2018/2019 drama was:
1. Almost instant, blind vilification of Lindsey by a huge chunk of folks who acted as if they were just waiting to have a reason to finally be happy he is out of the band, why that is I don’t really understand. 2. The amplification of all things related to Lindsey’s behavior and events 40 years ago while at the same time ignoring John McVies abusive alcoholism as well as the collective drug and party culture that affected every member of the band. Ken C’s recent remarks about Lindsey having the audacity to work on tusk tracks at home, but failing to mention how Stevie worked on Sara with Tom M. In an all together separate session. The shear amount of double standards and attempts to revise history is pretty shocking by fans and band members. 3. Magically, overnight there were legions of fans who were predominantly fans because of the ‘75 lineup, magically had an affection for every incarnation of the band and then used this as an excuse to feed into Micks “we’ve always had a revolving line up so this is business as usual” defense. 4. There was a time when fans could objectively look at the past knowing what we do know and come to the conclusion that NONE of them were saints on any level. Yet, with the events of 2018/2019 Some fans and folks like Ken C. have decided to paint this picture that everyone else was a saint to work with and it was always Lindsey being the difficult one. 5. Folks love to pour on the love for the Tango In The Night album, but turn a complete blind eye to the fact that big bad Lindsey had to work with Christine McVie to single handedly piece that entire album together with mick the drunk hanging out in a trailer in Lindsey’s driveway and Stevie being almost entirely absent due to her own addiction struggles. But let’s talk about Lindsey backing out of the tour because that’s low hanging fruit and ignore the premise that there wouldn’t of been any tour at all without the darn album. Again, the cherry picking is pretty staggering in this new era to portray Lindsey. |
it fits with the larger zeitgeist of polarization. The world has devolved into camps, with no possible in-between. You're either "for" or "against" and once you pick your side, you pick your facts to support the position you've taken. Politics, social culture, whatever it is, everyone nowadays picks a side and ignores anything that doesn't fit that view. Sad. :distress:
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I think what it comes down to is that some of the SN fans are so obsessed with her and nothing not even quotes from the horses mouth will change their thinking on how she is perfection and Lindsey is nothing and guilty of everything. It is pointless to argue with them because their minds are made up. One of my friends said I hope they never serve on a jury. |
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I know SN fans who tried to escape and cursed her existence for like 10 minutes, but at the end.... that’s what I call a cult! :laugh: |
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All of which circles back and undermines the Chiff logic about what went on for her to insist on his firing. Because she was only having to deal with him for like 4 hours a day at best. And what new behavior could be worse than any of either of their past behavior?? He ranted about why Rhiannon was played at MusicCares?? Like, really??? |
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I've seen the MusicCares video and he mocked her while she was speaking, going as far to make the jerking off motion. It's clear as day. Enough to be booted from the band? No, but childish and disrespectful. Before I'm labeled as a Stevie cultist, I think she has done plenty herself and she is no innocent victim. I'm one of the people in the grey area. I do laugh when people call Stevie fans cultists when so many Lindsey fans here continue to spend countless hours posting the same pro-Lindsey, anti-Stevie arguments in every thread, coming into Stevie threads and hijacking them to talk about Lindsey. Trying to buddy up to Lindsey's wife on Twitter. It's creepy. And it completely destroyed what was once a great discussion board. |
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Did you watch the video? If so, you would have seen that Mick AND Christine made faces, smirked, rolled their eyes and then STARTED WALTZING while Stevie spoke. It was after they began dancing that LB jokingly gestured to John that the two of them could dance as well. Funny how no one calls out MICK or CHRIS's behavior in this, just Lindsey's. That's the exact sort of bias that comes from the SN tribe (of which I was a member for DECADES). If Lindsey's behavior during her speech merits actually firing from the band, Mick and Christine should be right out on the sidewalk with him. They aren't. So why is that???? |
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I guess that's a bit too civilized for someone like Stevie.... Quote:
I've seen the Musicares video too and Lindsey starts goofing around AFTER Mick and Christine make funny faces. So it's not as clear as day. Like, seriously? This has been discussed like a thousand times. And please, there are plenty of Stevie's fans who refer to Lindsey's fans as "cultists". Plenty. Maybe your area is so grey that you can't see it clearly…. :shrug: Quote:
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Oh for goodness sake, once and for all....
SHE got rid of him, she got him fired, end of ...kaput ...all her doing. She has born a grudge or whatever for years, years, years. And has waited and waited, till the scales tilted in her favour.. She finally got rid of him, when really he was of no use,( to her) as Fleetwood Mac was not going to make any new music, from her LA tower, she had decreed it. Once Buckvie was released that was the final nail in his coffin, ...Christine returning was a major catalyst to Lindsey’s demise.... There’s really not much more to say , you can argue any possible reasons behind her actions..... but the fact is she done the deed. The gal’s guilty..... (even I can see that as a true Mac fan, neither Lindsey or Stevie fan, I love them both) |
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Whatever the case SN should have just quit the kitchen if she didn't like the heat. But Mick never had the heart to say that to her.
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Instead, Neil quit and let the others carry on without him for ten years until Crosby got clean. In so doing Neil may have left a lot of money on the table (the next two CSN albums were smash hits), but he didn't plot behind anyone's back to get someone fired. He left himself. |
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$he's not the boss. Yeah, right. F*cking egomaniac is what $he is. |
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although i initially listened to the voices saying she wanted to do that and Mick made her stay to make sure his pockets are filled as much as possible, after seeing all the happenings from the last 2 years, i don't blame it so singularly on Mick anymore. she's not the victim, she's a perpetrator. like someone said, her obsession with "haunting Lindsey forever" (after dumping him?!) was initially expressed back in 1976 with Silver Springs, and sadly for her it never went away. |
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