Christine Article

[anna]

Has anyone read the (British) Daily Express article, May 12th, about Christine? I haven't, but I know there are some interesting quotes about the upcoming solo album, which is supposed to be in the stage of mixing!
UK Ledgies, please?

Anna

[blinker12]

Hey, I got it off Lexis-Nexis. Thanks for the heads-up; I never would have known about it otherwise!
Um, where was the copy editor/fact checker on this one? We've seen "Lindsay" before, but "Eddie Kinsella"? Try Quintela!



Copyright 2003 EXPRESS NEWSPAPERS
The Express

May 12, 2003

SECTION: COLUMNS; Pg. 30

LENGTH: 292 words

HEADLINE: DAY & NIGHT; MCVIE GOES HER OWN WAY WITH A NEW ALBUM

BYLINE: KATHRYN SPENCER, JULIE CARPENTER & KATE BOHDANOWICZ

BODY:
THREE years after quitting the music business and America to live the life of a virtual recluse in an English country village, multi-millionaire former Fleetwood Mac rocker Christine McVie is to bring out a comeback solo album this summer, we can disclose.

Singer-songwriter and keyboard player Christine, 59, quit Fleetwood Mac and her former glittering Los Angeles existence, as we revealed exclusively three years ago, for a new life of quiet anonymity back in the UK in a beautiful home on the edge of a village on the Kent/Sussex border, following a divorce from her second husband Eddie Kinsella.

Now Birmingham-born Christine, who wrote and sang lead vocals on some of Fleetwood Mac's greatest hits, is to revive her music career as a solo artist, just as her former band mates - Mick Fleetwood, Stevie Nicks, Lindsay Buckingham and her ex-husband John McVie - have released an acclaimed new album Say You Will and embarked on a huge, extended world tour.

Christine's long-time manager Martin Wyatt, who remains close to her, says: "The new songs are distinctly Christine McVie in style and we have got to the stage of mixing and will have the album ready in six to eight weeks.

"Record companies are constantly ringing up to hear the songs or hear the finished album and we are saying we will ring you when we have got it ready."

Christine still prefers the quiet life, we understand. A friend says: "She won't even answer the phone in her house and, if someone answers it for her, she will not talk unless it is a really old and trusted friend.

"She does not want to be asked if she regrets leaving the band. The album came about when friends heard the songs she was doodling with and urged her to write again."

[Gypsy-Rhiannon]

Wow! I missed this! Thanks for posting!

Pip

[darklinensuit]

Thanks for posting.
Isn't it Quintella?

- Jake

[Gypsy-Rhiannon]

Originally posted by darklinensuit
Thanks for posting.
Isn't it Quintella?

- Jake
Yes

[RoxyRockstar]

WOOHOOO!!!!!!!!
Finally a confirmation about a new album...YEEEEEHAWWW!
I am more excited about hearing that album then i was to get the new FM. I hope to gawd they get it in some stores around here. These days you are hard up to find people who even know who she is, let alone have her '84 cd in stock.

[anna]

Do we know whether we can trust this Martin Wyatt guy?

Anna

[Gypsy-Rhiannon]

Originally posted by anna
Do we know whether we can trust this Martin Wyatt guy?

Anna
Yes. He is cool

Pip

[anna]

So we can dance?

Anna

[macfan 57]

This is fantastic news!!!!!!!!! Thanks for posting this. Now we know for sure this album is coming. I wonder what happened to John Courage. Does anyone know who Martin Wyatt is?

!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[Rainman]

This is terrific news!

This got me thinking . . .
if someone answers it for her, she will not talk unless it is a really old and trusted friend.
I wonder if that includes certain musicians currently touring and playing a few of her old songs. Hmmm.

And of course, I had to laugh at this:
have released an acclaimed new album Say You Will and embarked on a huge, extended world tour.
Yeah, RIGHT! Don't get me going on this "no Vancouver date" thing again!:mad:

[Miranda]

There's more to the story of Christine leaving the band than what's been said. If you want to retire...you retire. You don't release a solo project. I wonder when the lid's coming off this?

[Rainman]

Originally posted by Miranda
There's more to the story of Christine leaving the band than what's been said. If you want to retire...you retire. You don't release a solo project. I wonder when the lid's coming off this?

I don't know . . . I wouldn't read too much into it. Doing a solo project and working with a band (and subsequent tour) are two entirely different things--the latter being far more demanding. She always said she just didn't want to tour anymore. Who knows, she might get off on playing at small venues in the UK--or she may just sit at home and continue to prune her roses.

I find the story quite believable.

[wetcamelfood]

Yeah, I'm not reading in to it either, Christine has ALWAYS said that she likes/doesn't mind RECORDING solo albums, just not touring. I don't think she has any problem with the band as such. As for FM, I'm sure at least Mick but possibly some of the others may be upset that, (in the way they would probably word it), she "doesn't want to complete the five member "Rumours" lineup" though so he/they can line his/thier pocket(s) some more but nothing beyond that. For once, not really a scandal with this band! :) If there has to be a "reason" as to why she isn't in FM anymore, I think it's simply because if she's in FM there's more pressure to tour, whereas solo, she can do what she wants (or in this case, not wants).

John

[Miranda]

Originally posted by Rainman



I find the story quite believable.

I do too. The story about Chris doing a solo project that is.
What I was talking about is the story about why she isn't with the band any more.
There's more to that story than what's come out in public.
I think there's also a story behind why Stevie appears uninspired on this tour.
Probably no connection between the two.

[gypsysara]

I wouldnt overreact to the whole "she left FM" issue. Obviously at the end of the article, its stated she started doing this solo album after friends heard her noodling and encouraged her. There likely is more to why she left FM, but we wont ever know it, she is ultra reclusive. Im happy she's branching out on her own. And just because she's releasing an album doesnt mean she will tour, and if so - to the extent the "worldwide SYW" tour is...

[Gypsy-Rhiannon]

Originally posted by macfan 57
Does anyone know who Martin Wyatt is?

He is her manager. I was told by Bob Brunning recently that he is a nice guy

Pip

[Phil]

The excitement surrounding this project should remain in abeyance at this stage considering that no record company has signed on as yet. I predict that once the album is heard, no one will be interested. She ain't got the looks or the songs. Sorry folks.

[macfan 57]

Originally posted by Gypsy-Rhiannon
He is her manager. I was told by Bob Brunning recently that he is a nice guy

Pip

Thanks, Pip.

[Gail]

I wonder why it is that looks only matter if you're female - "she hasn't got the looks or the songs"

Whether she has the songs is a matter of opinion.

If a band's success depended on the looks of all the members then Fleetwood Macwould have got rid of Fleetwood & McVie a long time ago! Two fat bald old geezers.

Gail

[strandinthewind]

I hope that if she is not picked up by a label, she will release the songs on the net at $0.99 per song or $10.00 to download all songs.

[Gypsy-Rhiannon]

Originally posted by Phil
The excitement surrounding this project should remain in abeyance at this stage considering that no record company has signed on as yet. I predict that once the album is heard, no one will be interested. She ain't got the looks or the songs. Sorry folks.
Why would looks have anything to do with it? There are some butt ugly male singers out there who it doesn't matter for. And maybe you should wait to hear what she has to offer before you say she hasn't got the songs. Oh and I will make my own mind up as to whether I am interested.

Pip

[Gypsy-Rhiannon]

Originally posted by Gail


If a band's success depended on the looks of all the members then Fleetwood Macwould have got rid of Fleetwood & McVie a long time ago! Two fat bald old geezers.

Gail
LMAO!:laugh: :laugh:

[MissJanet]

Originally posted by Phil
The excitement surrounding this project should remain in abeyance at this stage considering that no record company has signed on as yet. I predict that once the album is heard, no one will be interested. She ain't got the looks or the songs. Sorry folks.

Phil, you at it again, sigh. Why don't you just forget it?

[gypsysara]

Sounds like a typical male chauvinist IMO...

[darklinensuit]

Originally posted by Gail
I wonder why it is that looks only matter if you're female - "she hasn't got the looks or the songs"

Whether she has the songs is a matter of opinion.

If a band's success depended on the looks of all the members then Fleetwood Macwould have got rid of Fleetwood & McVie a long time ago! Two fat bald old geezers.

Gail

Hey, did Mick get fat for this tour?:)

- Jake

[Phil]

Phil, you at it again, sigh. Why don't you just forget it?
MissJanet, so unless I comply with your thoughts, my comments are unwelcome? Perhaps it's time for you and your cronies to organise another strike against me? What a bully you must be.
Contrary to what you believe, I actually hope Christine's album is released. It is important that the current output be heard and judged as opposed to her being canonised for past work (ie when she was still a viable contender). At least then all of the critics and "fans" who lamented her absence from 'SYW' will realise she would only have served to detract from a work of near brilliance. A source of ridicule would not have been "the glue" that binds the Mac together.

[squealy]

Phil, I know exactly what you're saying - I very much doubt Christine's album will be any good, and hopefully that will stop people from complaining about her not being in FM. If her songs from "Time" are any indication, she doesn't have it anymore. I've always felt she is the reason why the band isn't taken more seriously - her songs are easy-listening, middle of the road fluff. She hit a good patch in the 70s when Lindsey and Stevie joined the band, but her stuff on the 80s albums is largely forgettable and on the 90s albums it's deadly dull. I like FM just fine without her.

[wetcamelfood]

I (& I'm sure the others here too) respect your opinions :)

Now, maybe not but it's "my" opinion that the others are upset by what you say, not because of how you feel but due to how you are saying it.

When you say "she doesn't have it anymore" or "her later stuff was fluff" or SYW "is a work of brilliance", it may have been "taken better" (for lack of a better phrase) if you had just prefixed it with something like "It's my opinion that..." or "I think...".

Like someone had said earlier here, THEY will make up THEIR minds as to how THEY feel about it. I have stated on these boards that I would've preferred BN to have not rejoined FM and that the band would've been better off breaking up BEFORE "The dance" (if it was felt as though no other new replacement personnel would do etc.) and would have rather had LB & SN do solo stuff from (then) on and I realize this is not a popular opinion but I've stated so by saying "this is how I feel..." I DON'T say "well, FM wouldn't be as good if they got some of the previous members to come back to the band (etc.) and that's that" because I can see why a statement like that would be "upsetting". :) Squealy, you'll notice I respected your feelings even if I personally don't agree with them about FM "not being taken seriously while CM was there etc." BECAUSE you DID say prior to THAT statement that "(you) always felt..." so fair enough. :)

You both seem to agree that you "hope that CM's album is released so it will stop the complaining about CM not being in FM and will show that her material would have just been a distraction (etc.)". Well, that won't happen, there will always be people that will have "those feelings" and they will undoubtedly still feel that way whether her solo album is released or not. Fair enough if that's your opinion, but you guys are stating these things as if they were facts and they are not facts, just opinions and "I think" people would "respect them more" if you simply stated them as such. :)

By all means, do what you want but I only say this so you guys know that you don't "have to" feel like your being attacked here (since it seems like you think you are based on your CM opinions alone), there was, and is, a way you can say your feelings and have them be respected here by simply putting those said few words in front of your feelings when stating them if nothing else, you know what I mean? ...but this is just "MY humble opinion". :)

John

[Nicks Fan]

This is great news!!!!!!!!. I do agree that Christine has virtually never pushed the envelope that Lindsey always has on his songs. Her stuff is great pop songs,but they are Pop songs. I for one feel that most of the stuff she has done with and without Fm has been good with a few exceptions. I also feel that people should forget the fact that she has left Fm and focus on the fact that she has a new album coming out. We Fm Fans should be used to the fact that members leave the band left right and center so her leaving shouldn't come as a surprise. As for her new album Will it be a hit? NO !!!!!! Should we care if it is? NO!!!!!!!!!!!

[Phil]

Fair enough if that's your opinion, but you guys are stating these things as if they were facts and they are not facts, just opinions and "I think" people would "respect them more" if you simply stated them as such.

Oh but everything I stated was fact! Christine is all washed up and the "career" is long gone. Fact.

[Tango]

It will be wonderful to have even MORE music to add to the Fleetwood Mac legacy!

[wetcamelfood]

Originally posted by Phil
Oh but everything I stated was fact! Christine is all washed up and the "career" is long gone. Fact.

OK then, where can I find the documentation that says this (if it "is a fact" as you say)?

If I was to say (whoever is at #1 right now) is "washed up" and someone that had hits years ago and doesn't now is "long gone" too, does me saying that make it a fact that those artist's careers are "over"?

How does it mean "for a fact" that ANY music put out by ANY artist now, regardles of it's sales figures, is not good? You are obviously a big fan of Stevie and/or Lindsey so I'll word it this way to cover all bases: "Buckingham Nicks" didn't sell so does that mean you think that album is "no good" because of it's poor sales figures/lack of hit singles etc.?

At least I will say that it's MY "opinion" that "sales doesn't equal good music, they have nothing to do with each other" and that to me "there is no such thing as something "being a fact" as to whether a song is "good (or not)", it is an opinion". As much as I would LIKE that to be a fact, people like yourself, will not always agree on that.

All you had to do was say "it's my opinion that..." and you wouldn't have felt so "hard done by", that's all I'm saying. :)

John

[Janet]

I know what's washed up.

People who post on these boards just to ruffle some feathers. Just ignore them and don't get offended and they will go away.

This is a fan board and anyone who isn't a fan shouldn't post. I never will understand those who aren't fans who come to these boards. I don't get it!

ANYWAY! This is great news about the beautiful Christine McVie. Im sure she is making a great album and I will be right in line to buy it. I just hope it's released in the states. She might just release it on her side of the pond.

How DID her 1984 album do there anyway>

So people just be happy she's coming out with another album and ignore the riff raff that some people want to start :o YAWN

:):):)

[MissJanet]

Originally posted by wetcamelfood
I (& I'm sure the others here too) respect your opinions :)
John

I respect everyones opinion here, with the expection of Phils opinion on Christine McVie. Since he had the nerve to call her a c***t here, IMHO he is disqualified to post about her at all. I guess my opinion is questionable, but I can't stand such behavior and I can't respect Phil anymore.

[wetcamelfood]

Originally posted by MissJanet
I respect everyones opinion here, with the expection of Phils opinion on Christine McVie. Since he had the nerve to call her a c***t here, IMHO he is disqualified to post about her at all. I guess my opinion is questionable, but I can't stand such behavior and I can't respect Phil anymore.

Yeah, well, I was just trying to be nice about it there. :)

Since he won't just admit that it's his opinion and not a fact then it does make it tough to have a reasonable discussion with "some people" here.

Janet's right though, and as she's a moderator here, I will do as she advises on this and I'm not going to waste my time in this thread anymore.

Shame that a nice fun thread (or a few CM ones as mentioned for that matter) had to turn sour for no reason. Oh well, whatever, see you guys in other fun threads and let's hope they stay that way. :)

John

[squealy]

I don't hate Christine or anything, I just find a lot of her stuff boring, so I don't miss her on the new album. I'd certainly never call her a "c**t" (!) or comment on her looks.

[wetcamelfood]

Originally posted by squealy
I don't hate Christine or anything, I just find a lot of her stuff boring, so I don't miss her on the new album. I'd certainly never call her a "c**t" (!) or comment on her looks.

Yeah, I know, I DO respect YOUR opinion even if I personally don't agree with it Squealy because at least YOU will say that it's "just your opinion" and not a "fact". :)

John

[Rainman]

I have to agree with squealy, that Christine's recent work just doesn't have the energy or appeal (to me) of her earlier stuff. My hope is that the break has given her something new.

Now, as for Phil's most enlightened comments, calling Chris a c**t or dismissing her art based on looks . . .well, I suggest he go find a lively little misogynist's board somewhere.

Hey Phil, try www.totalfrigginloser.com

[Phil]

I'm sorry if I ruined this thread for anyone but hey kids, play nice! I'm a sensitive guy and the insults directed at me do really cut to the quick.
I do remember reading somewhere that "hateful" comments such as the ones uttered about me can result in indefinite suspension from the Ledge. Just thought this was worth mentioning 'cause I wouldn't like to lose contact with you guys.

[Rainman]

I do remember reading somewhere that "hateful" comments such as the ones uttered about me can result in indefinite suspension from the Ledge. Just thought this was worth mentioning 'cause I wouldn't like to lose contact with you guys.

You mean, hateful comments like "Christine's a c**t?"

I agree one hundred percent, Phil!

[wetcamelfood]

Originally posted by Phil
I'm sorry if I ruined this thread for anyone but hey kids, play nice! I'm a sensitive guy and the insults directed at me do really cut to the quick.
I do remember reading somewhere that "hateful" comments such as the ones uttered about me can result in indefinite suspension from the Ledge. Just thought this was worth mentioning 'cause I wouldn't like to lose contact with you guys.

You may think otherwise but I have nothing against you personally and I do apologize if I said anything "hurtful" but in looking through my previous posts, apart from insinuating I didn't respect your opinion due to your not replying earlier, I must say, I don't think I did, I simply said (or was at least simply trying to say) that you may wish to consider thinking twice before saying your opinion was a fact, it was just advice more than anything else, and either take it or don't. That was the only reason I came in to this thread as I saw your original post in this thread and thought it might upset some due to the said reason above and thought I'd try to nip it in the bud before it got worse but it didn't seem to work. Just trying to be a "peacekeeper" if you like. :)

John

[Cristian]

Phil, you have about 120 posts here in The Ledge. And from what I have read, about 100 of them at least have been to say something against Christine. You don't like her, it's just fine, I respect your opinion, which is something that you apparently don't do with other people. Pity. But the thing is, is that hate that you feel for Christine so important that you need to come to The Ledge only to search for the articles and topics that are about her and post something insulting against her and her fans? Don't you really have anything more interesting to add to the conversations? I feel really sorry that you are posting and using the valuable bandwidth of this Forum, and thus making us having to read all your incredibly biased and unfortunated statements. It's also, as I said, pretty annoying that the only thing that you've repeated throughout your 120 posts is that you hate Christine. Good for you, but I am tired about all of the discussion. Open a topic about how bad are Christine's post-1982 songs, or about how bad her album (which doesn't even have a releasing date yet as far as I know) is or will be, whatever. Discuss whatever you want. But stop runing with your unrespectful and pityful ways of treating other members, the few topics that are about her, for her true and loyal fans. If you don't like what you read in a certain topic, you are always free to click on the "x" that is on top of your screen and leave the Forum. I can assure you that lots of people would be pretty much satisfied if that was your decision.


Song of the moment - Eyes Of The World

[wondergirl9847]

It gets REALLY OLD to read "fans" rip FM members apart. :( I mean, fine, if you don't care for her songs or whatever, but come on...geez. :rolleyes:

[Gypsy-Rhiannon]

Originally posted by Phil
Just thought this was worth mentioning 'cause I wouldn't like to lose contact with you guys.
Oh I'm sure we could learn to live with it

[macfan 57]

Thanks to John & Cristian and everyone else who have injected some sanity into this thread. This started out when someone was nice enough to post what for me was very exciting news about Christine's new album. "Phil" has attempted to ruin virtually every thread about Chris for a while now. I have been a fan of Christine for almost 30 years and I'm not going to let someone like this ruin anything for me.

By the way, about a year ago there were problems here on the Ledge with other problem posters. Marty suggested that people could use the ignore function here on the Ledge. I have now done that. So, until "Phil" disappears or is banned from the Ledge, at least he has been banished from my Ledge experience.

[Phil]

It would seem that a selection of Ledgies believe in kicking a guy whilst he's down. I thought that the Ledge Forums were comprised of mature contributors who embraced diversity and difference of opinion... I was obviously mistaken.

[Rainman]

Originally posted by Phil
It would seem that a selection of Ledgies believe in kicking a guy whilst he's down. I thought that the Ledge Forums were comprised of mature contributors who embraced diversity and difference of opinion... I was obviously mistaken.

Phil, nobody is kicking you while you're down.

As far as I can tell, most of the people on this board welcome diverse opinions. The fact that you dislike Christine and her music isn't a problem. What's a problem is that you go beyond any mature sort of criticism and use terms like c**t to attack her.

I suspect that by presenting mature criticisms and opinions, you will get mature responses.

Just an idea.

[Phil]

Have I resorted to profanity during this thread? It seems that many of you are obsessed with reprising the 'c' word wherever possible which, of course, says more about you than me.
I don't believe you will tolerate my criticisms no matter how they are presented. I suspect that compliance is the mantra being embraced in these parts and that any deviation from this calls for punishment. I never realised how many bullies frequented this board.

[Rainman]

I suspect that compliance is the mantra being embraced in these parts and that any deviation from this calls for punishment. I never realised how many bullies frequented this board.

This is my last response to this increasingly silly thread:

Read the many posts on this board, Phil, and you will see that "compliance" is anything BUT the mantra "embraced in these parts." People "in these parts" slam the music, and the artists, all the time. It's half the fun and makes for lively discussions.

Now, maybe in Australia certain words and phrases have different meanings and intensities, I don't know. In any event, you're always entitled to your opinion, and in fact on this board it is always welcomed. But if you attack artists with certain inflammatory and extremely derogatory words (which have nothing to do with criticism of their work), don't be surprised if more and more people choose the "IGNORE" button.

[Gypsy-Rhiannon]

Originally posted by Phil
Have I resorted to profanity during this thread? It seems that many of you are obsessed with reprising the 'c' word wherever possible which, of course, says more about you than me.
I don't believe you will tolerate my criticisms no matter how they are presented. I suspect that compliance is the mantra being embraced in these parts and that any deviation from this calls for punishment. I never realised how many bullies frequented this board.
Come on Phil... I'm sure you are an intelligent person.... it is totally how you present your 'criticisms' There is a big difference with saying something like Well in my opinion Christine is washed up... she just doesn't cut it for me etc etc' to what you said Oh but everything I stated was fact! Christine is all washed up and the "career" is long gone. Fact. Quit with the cry baby routine.... no-one is bullying you. You reap what you sow

Pip

[macmar71]

Everyone is entitled to an opinion, whether it be good or bad, we all can't agree otherwise we would not be individuals.
IMO I think Christine is a fabulous songwriter and that will never go away. She has written some of Fleetwood Mac's best songs from her start with them until she left. Like I said that is what I think.

[dougb]

There are Opinions and then theres just plain being an ASS-HOLE

[WindingRoad]

I probably should keep my mouth shut, but here I go....

Whatever happened to "Arizona Ranger"? This thread reminds me of him.

Anyway, I'm not that great a fan of Christine's SONGS, but I really miss her HARMONIES. I think her voice would have been a great addition to some of the SYW songs.

You know what they say, "You don't know what you've got till it's gone." :nod:

Susieq :wavey:

[gldstwmn]

Originally posted by darklinensuit
Hey, did Mick get fat for this tour?:)

- Jake

No, he's been running up hills.:p

[gldstwmn]

Originally posted by squealy
Phil, I know exactly what you're saying - I very much doubt Christine's album will be any good, and hopefully that will stop people from complaining about her not being in FM. If her songs from "Time" are any indication, she doesn't have it anymore. I've always felt she is the reason why the band isn't taken more seriously - her songs are easy-listening, middle of the road fluff. She hit a good patch in the 70s when Lindsey and Stevie joined the band, but her stuff on the 80s albums is largely forgettable and on the 90s albums it's deadly dull. I like FM just fine without her.

Phil,
I know you to be a nice guy. And while Chris showed her brilliance with songs like Why, she lost me with Everywhere. It's elevator music. She is obviously at a place in her life where she is content and that has filtered into her work for better or for worse. It would have been interesting to see what she brought to the table this time around but are they hurting without her? No way. I saw it for myself on May 7 in Columbus. Do I think there's more to her departure? Absolutely. Will we ever know the whole story? Probably not. As for her looks, when I saw Chris on the Dance tour, she looked pretty good to me. We all know that women are judged more harshly that way. You have a right to your opinion just like the rest of us, Phil. Take care.:wavey:

[gldstwmn]

Originally posted by squealy
I don't hate Christine or anything, I just find a lot of her stuff boring, so I don't miss her on the new album. I'd certainly never call her a "c**t" (!) or comment on her looks.


Oh, the dreaded "c" word. Now that's just uncalled for. Pardon the pun, but why? :mad:

[gldstwmn]

Originally posted by dougb
There are Opinions and then theres just plain being an ASS-HOLE


This is the most groin obsessed thread I've ever been on. :laugh:

[Phil]

Thanks for your kind words gldstwmn. To those of you who have taken objection to my past comments, I concede that they could well be interpreted as inflammatory or provocative. On some level I do wish to provoke, but only in a positive and constructive way. My objective is to stimulate thought and discussion, whether it be critical or complimentary. It concerns me, however, that I have recently been subjected to such acrimony and literal interpretation (of all that's been written) but then I realise none of you know me as a person. For the record, the earlier charge of misogyny directed at me could not be more inaccurate. If you knew my background, the work I do and my current circumstances, then I'm certain those remarks would be retracted.

My previous utilisation of the dreaded 'c' word was in no way sexual or hateful, but simply an adjective employed to illustrate my contempt for all that Christine has become. Once again, my opinion, not necessarily yours. As offensive as this word may be to some, it is of no consequence to me and in fact has become a term of affection within my group of (mostly female) friends. That said, I have realised the error of my ways and not uttered anything even remotely profane or obscene since the notorious "What's eating Christine?" thread of last month, which I might add, earnt me a strike courtesy of the Ledge Moderators. I was warned against the following:

- Posting hateful, insulting, nasty remarks and name-calling

Strangely enough, even though I have desisted from using any such language ever since, other members of this board have seemingly liberated themselves by cussing with gay abandon, all the while directing their venom at me. I'm asking myself why would these members feel the need to dredge up such obscenities? I'm guessing a degree of punishment is being exacted my way? It should be noted that obscuring the middle letters of expletives may lessen the impact but doesn't alter the fact that it still constitutes cursing - worth noting if you wish to avoid incurring the wrath of the Ledge Moderators (of course, that's assuming I haven't been singled out 'n' all).

In reference to what I wrote about Christine's looks, I was simply commenting on the expectations of the contemporary music industry (these were not necessarily my thoughts, merely an observation of the general consensus that she's an unattractive woman). Stevie has a tough enough time dealing with this, but Christine, who is older and decidedly less glamorous (by her own admission) would find it even more difficult navigating the harsh terrain of today's youth obsessed marketplace.

So there we have it my friends - maybe not exactly an apology but hopefully an explanation or justification for what I have penned. I'm not striving for acceptance but believe I deserve every right to contribute my opinions, as controversial as they may be. Try as I might, I guess I'm just not like other boys... but then I'm sure none of you would really want me to be.

[wetcamelfood]

Originally posted by Phil
...but believe I deserve every right to contribute my opinions

Absolutely, the "problem" that "I" saw in THIS thread was that you were trying to say that the thoughts you were speaking were "facts" not opinions. I personally did not say anything about the "other" thread, I was just attempting to bring to your attention that saying your thoughts were facts was going to upset some and that you may wish to simply say what you have finally said now (above). Was that really so hard? You would feel less victimized if you had just said that in the first place. As I say though, that is just MY humble "opinion". :)

John

[Phil]

John, I didn't/don't have a problem with anything you've said - my comments were not directed at you. However, whilst I appreciate your suggestions, I don't consider it necessary to clarify every statement I make simply because some members have difficulty differentiating between fact and one's personal view. If I occasionally choose to exercise a little sarcasm in order to emphasise a point, then surely that's my prerogative?
I realise I'm setting myself up here, but what is it with Americans and their complete incomprehension of irony on any level? A generalisation yes and of course, not all of my detractors hail from the 'great land', but I am perpetually bewildered by this basic lack of understanding. Just a thought mind!

[wetcamelfood]

You "differenciated" it for us when you said "Oh but everything I stated was fact! Christine is all washed up and the "career" is long gone. Fact." There were no smilies or anything so how were we to know you were "not being serious" or "sarcastic" when you said this? It is your perogative to do that if you wish but if you do choose that route then you should expect such a response (IMO). :)

John

[Rainman]

Well, I swore off this thread, but Phil's last post brought me back.

Phil, your statements--if sincere, and I have no reason to doubt them--do clarify things for me, and I appreciate you taking the time. It seems (as I suspected) that certain terms in my world generate much different reactions than in yours. Also, I probably misinterpreted your comments on her looks. I never found her overly attractive, I just don't like to see an artist judged on looks. Too many musicians, particularly young females, get careers launched mostly on sex appeal with little artistic energy to back up the flash.

So my posts were made in anger--usually not the best time to post (but it can make for lively discussion if handled maturely! Which in this case, it was not).

Anyway, my apologies for some immature and uncalled-for remarks, and let's get back to some good ol' Ledgie banter--the fun kind.

Thanks again for posting

Rainman

:)

[dougb]

So Phill is not american that says it all.You are canadian or french right?

[DownOnRodeo]

Originally posted by dougb
So Phill is not american that says it all.You are canadian or french right?
Please don't embarrass your fellow Americans by suggesting any sort of unfounded air of superiority over other nationalities - especially those of the Commonwealth (knocking France is alright though ;)). Unless you are joking - which wasn't made very clear. In that case I am the embarrassed one. :rolleyes: