SAY YOU WILL: final analysis

[MacFan03]

All things considered, is SAY YOU WILL considered a success or not?

Reviews were mostly positive, and generally the biggest criticism was the lengthiness of the CD. But production, songwriting and performance were overall praised.

Sales are good. Chart debut very respectable.

Does the media/fans/Fleetwood Mac themselves believe this project to be a success, enough so to encourage future work???

Interested in hearing everyone's thoughts.

[Cour]

I think it will be considered a success.

For an old rock and roll band that has not been consistent with output or touring to debut at #3 is very impressive.

It took a long time for the Dance to get to 5 million sold. I think by the end of the Dance tour the cd had sold about 2 million. The Dance was also viewed as a Greatest Hits/Live cd which many casual fans bought to update their old studio cds of those hit songs. I think the Dance numbers are going to be harder to acheive this time. The Dance video was played on VH1 and PBS along with their BTM for a year, and right after there was Stevie's BTM, solo tour, and Storytellers that kept fueling the airing of the Dance and FM BTM.

The industry's expectations in 2003 have been dimmed by the general state of the music business and I think if they could get to 2 million sold by the end of a second leg of this tour, it would be considered a success. There are so few artists selling what they used to 2-3 yrs ago, I think the reality of the business cannot be avoided when judging the sales of any artist's cd. It's either rap, or a fluke like a poptart/Kelly Clarkson or debut Norah Jones/Alicia Keyes who manage to sell large large numbers.

Hopefully, good word of mouth, the end of the war and the start of the summer concert season will help pick up some ticket sales for the tour.

I think Stevie mentioned in a recent article that they would be happy to sell 2 million cds, so they're probably being more realistic about the potential.

IMO they could use a little advertising. I have seen 3 five second tv commercials for SYW and 2 tv commercials for a concert at a venue where they're showing Dance video footage with Christine. I can't tell you how many commercials I've seen for Lisa Marie Presely, Kelly Clarkson and a few other younger artists. A lot of people I know don't even realize they've got a new cd out.

[MacFan03]

>>Hopefully, good word of mouth, the end of the war and the start of the summer concert season will help pick >>up some ticket sales for the tour.


In the late winter/early spring it was reported that veteran acts like Fleetwood Mac were experiencing no problems selling concert tickets. Then right before the tour started there seemed to be some concerns about ticket sales.

Now that the tour has started, reviews have constantly mentioned that it was a packed house. So I'm thinking ticket sales are in fine shape. I know there are very few tickets left for the Philly show, which will probably end up with a capacity of 18,000.

[Rainman]

fleetwood mac should be selling out venues.

Says who? They disappeared for five years. The tickets are expensive, and there's a huge amount of competition for entertainment $ now.


to me there's less than meets the eye in this tour.

Meaning . . . exactly what?


the cd is falling off the charts

It is? Still there the last I looked. In Vancouver it's still the #15 selling CD, ahead of Celine Dion (a Canada favorite), Shania Twain (ditto), Christina Aguilera, Diana Krall and others. I see Madonna slipped, too. Guess her career's shot.

the tour features too few new songs to change that.

Last I heard the setlist features at least six new songs. That's pretty gutsy considering their songbook and the number of people who show up to hear their favorites.


without christine this tour will never be seen on the same footing as the dance.

Is it supposed to be? That was The Dance Tour, this is the Say You Will tour. That was then. This is now.

there was a lot more publicity for the dance. it was the thing of 98

It was? I don't remember that. As I recall, there were A LOT more accusations back then of "another 70s super group going around one more time for the money" because they didn't play any new material, other than Silver Springs--which wasn't actually new.


From what I can tell, they're selling plenty of tickets, the band's having fun, the fans are having fun, Say You Will is still one of the top-selling CDs in North America, the CD has received mostly positive reviews, they're probably making more money in one hour than you or I will make in a year.

Yeah, it's all turned to ****. Boo f***ing hoo.


:rolleyes:

[dougb]

you said it all rainman

[chiliD]

Maybe it is the end of the line for Stevie's participation, but I feel Fleetwood Mac will carry on until Mick & John (and now that Lindsey is FINALLY fully committed after 28 years) are 6 ft deep.

I say good riddance, she should've STAYED gone after Bella Donna...but, I seem to be alone in that thought.

[Johnny Stew]

From what's being reported by everyone who's been to the shows so far, Stevie seems to be in high spirits, and is all-smiles.
That certainly doesn't sound like someone who's "probably sorry to have signed-on."

Stevie loves Fleetwood Mac, and really always has... so I think it would take some MAJOR falling-out at this point, or some really serious health problems, for her to walk away again.

As for the original question... I think when all is said and done, 'Say You Will' will be viewed as a tremendous success. Artistically and commercially.

Unless there's some huge hit single, or a massive TV campaign, every album drops in sales from its first couple weeks... so that's definitely not anything to worry about.
And even though the shows aren't selling out, most are "nearly sold out," according to reports... and that's nothing to sneeze at, given how long the band has been away, and the price of the tickets.

The general vibe I've gotten from the various reviews and articles, is that this release is already viewed as a success, and that it's already surpassed industry sales predictions.

I think it's safe to say it's already a success on all levels. :)

[rianbay1]

I was at the DC and Pittsburgh shows...both packed houses. If they weren't capacity, then they were DAMN CLOSE. 2nd dates are being added to quite a few venues (someting I wouldn't think would be happening if this tour weren't selling) Stevie and everyone else seem to be having a great time, no one looks as if they are sorry they "signed on." These are easily the BEST fleetwood mac shows I have EVER seen, including all of the shows that I saw on "The Dance."

It always amuses me how a lot of "fans" on this board seemingly can't wait to see Fleetwood Mac (solo or collectively) fail.


BRIAN

[jeffles]

How can you compare The Dance to Say You Will? That album was a greatest hits live package--a "safe" album of all the hits that everyone is familiar with. Its a different animal when you put out an album of all new material, and after such a long break. If anything, The Dance should be viewed as more of a thing for the money--it wasn't like they had to make a record for that. This is more of a test for the band then was the Dance.

I don't see how anyone can view this as a failure, or a failure waiting to happen. The album debuted high on the charts, and, since, remains in the top 20. In case you hadn't noticed, Madonna's album dropped from 1 to 8 after the first week. There should be a spike in sales during the tour.

What makes you so sure this is the "end of the line" for Stevie Nicks? and no new projects for the band? you say that matter-of-factly as if you actually know what they have planned....

[disEnchanted]

i never said this is the end of stevie. i said this is it for fleetwood mac. stevie's a team player. no doubt about it. she did this cd and tour for that reason. lindsey did it because its the only way his material was ever getting released by a major label to get major attention. they are all doing it for the money same as the dance. people do not stay in a band together for years and years hating each other if money (lots of it) is not the primary reason. stevie can go on without fm for sure. she is an icon. the band is done after this tour. a lot of people i talked to who went to all the shows so far agree that stevie isn't into it. some say she appears unhappy and unresponsive at times. she is putting on a great show as best she can but she is not giving it her all. i haven't seen a show so i'm not going by personal experience. this is what i've heard. read some fan reviews by the positive people if you think i'm just trying to be mean. yes second dates in a few large cities were added but that hasn't happened recently. i still say forget about a second leg. its not going to happen. just because i don't think everything the band does is fabulous doesn't mean i'm not a fan. isn't it a little childish to imply everything posted here has to be positive?

[Rainman]

disenchanted, I agree with you on a few things . . .

first off, no one should be flamed for posting negative opinions. If my post came across as a flame, I apologize. I should probably lay off the double espressos.

Next, I agree that the band is doing it for the money. Stevie said this was their retirement package--or something to that effect. But I also believe they're having fun. Or if not, they're good actors.

As for the second leg, personally I would also be surprised if it came off. I'm hoping for Vancouver, of course, but I don't expect it.

As for everyone hating each other in the band, that doesn't seem to be the case. As someone not so far from Lindsey's age, I can tell you that years have a way of mellowing people, knocking their egos back and getting them to view life quite differently. I think that's going on now. And that's why I can see them putting out another album somewhere down the road.

That being said, I agree that Lindsey probably did this more as a vehicle to get his work out there than any burning desire to be in FM again--although I also believe he likes being there. Group dynamics are usually more interesting and challenging.

And yes, I also agree that it's childish to imply that everything posted here has to be positive. What kind of a discussion forum would that be? Booooring . . .

[Miranda]

Right on Rainman! :) :wavey:

[Rainman]

One more thing . . .

When I say that I don't expect a second tour leg, I don't believe it will result from any perceived failure of the present tour. I think the plan was to tour the U.S., see how they felt about it, and if everyone was still keen (and of course, the tour was making a good buck), they'd look at a second leg.

My gut feel (whatever that's worth) is that it's 50-50 for a second leg. If they continue to play to well-attended shows, and everyone's energy levels are good, why not? It's their career. What else would they do?

On the other hand, they are all 50+, (and some with young families) and Stevie has her very successful solo career, which I think she enjoys more. How long would she want to put that on hold?

Just some thoughts for discussion . . .

[Rainman]

STILL one more thing for disenchanted . . .

the cd hasn't gotten great reviews. the ones i read are average and always mention the absense of chris being a negative.

I never said the CD was getting "great reviews." I said they were "mostly positive," meaning that many critics say there is enough material for a very good CD of 10 or 12 tracks (sigh--there's that silly length issue again). Yes, there is lament for Christine's absence, but at the same time there is praise for other aspects of their work.

And I think the average rating on Amazon is 4 stars out of over 200 reviews, and Amazon's own editorial review is quite glowing.

So saying that the reviews are "mostly positive" is, I think, an accurate assessment.

Okay, 'nuf said. I must get back to work so I can pay for that Portland show . . .:rolleyes:

[seeker007nmss]

Very simple. If you enjoyed it, and will continue playing it...It was a success. If it collects dust on your shelf....not a success. I wont judge it based on sales or chart action. I like some of it, and some tracks I wont listen to much. Kinda simple actually.





seeker007nmss :)

[rianbay1]

Originally posted by disEnchanted
yes second dates in a few large cities were added but that hasn't happened recently.

They JUST added a second Minneapolis date.

BRIAN

[squealy]

Didn't Lindsey make reference in one of the recent articles on the band to wanting to make a new album where he and Stevie would work up the material from scratch, and focus it more on singing duets? He certainly didn't give the impression that SYW was a one-time project. But I guess it's Stevie's feelings we're discussing in this thread.

I don't see any benefit to Stevie in leaving the band. Her solo albums no longer attract much attention. With Christine gone she finally has the space to contribute a substantial number of songs to Fleetwood Mac. And she and Lindsey seem to have reached a certain comfort level with one another that allows them to work together again. So why quit?

What a band. If only they all wanted to be in it at the same time.

[ejof17]

Maybe it is the end of the line for Stevie's participation, but I feel Fleetwood Mac will carry on until Mick & John (and now that Lindsey is FINALLY fully committed after 28 years) are 6 ft deep.


I could not disagree more, being partial to Stevie myself.

I would imagine that at this point without Stevie, there is no Fleetwood Mac, at least not a commercially successful one.
Like it or not, Stevie Nicks is the name in that band, the name that will be remembered 50 years from now. She is by far the most successful as a solo artist and without her participation, FM would not have had a record deal.

[ejof17]

Stevie's album's don't get much attention anymore?

She is a Gold seller! Her album debuted at #5, she hadn't charted that high since 1983! After the FM tour is finished, I am sure that TISL and SA will both be platinum. I have been at least four record stores that are offering deals on Bella Donna and Timespace when purchase with SYW as well. The same promotion they are having with Rumours.

Stevie can have another solo CD after this if she wants one. She had three singles played on the radio for chrissakes from her last album. Not that they charted too well, but they were played.

[squealy]

Was it really a #5 album?! I stand corrected. However, I still think Stevie gets more attention and acclaim as part of Fleetwood Mac these days.

[Ghosty]

Considering Stevie does not use sex to sell her songs, I am really impressed at how popular she still is. Go Stevie! She also writes as she writes. She doesn't try and fit into whatever the sound of the day is.

I think Say You Will is a success. It's gotten air time, and even time on hit TV shows. And the concerts are going well, from what I hear. And the reviews of the cd that I read were all pretty good for the most part. And for me, as a fan, I LOVE it. I think theydo it for the love of doing it, not the money. (Well, Mick might need the money - lol! But then again, he doesn't make as much since he doesn't write songs, right? But I think Stevie has her money budgeted, and does this because it's who she is and she loves writing and singing.).

I think as long as her fans keep wanting to buy her cd's,Stevie will keep making them, as long as health is good. But I have heard her say in interviews that when she's older and stops touring she wants to put out her book and make children's cartoons or projects like that. I hope to see all thatsomeday. So if the touring days ever end, I still would look forward to whatever creativity she gives us.

There are some Lindsey songs on the cd thatI truly don't like and I skip over them when I listen to the cd. They just are not my cup of tea. But I *LOVE* songs of his like Bleed to Love Her, and Steal Your Heart Away, What's the World Coming To, and Peacekeeper. I think it would be neat to hear another FWM cd where he and Stevie work together from scratch. But whatever they all decide.

When I heard about Lindsey's wife being around on the tour, that made me wonder if Stevie was having much fun. Not to be gossipy or "assume" things....I guess it's just you listen to the cd and some of the lyrics, and it makes it seem like she and Lindsey still have a thing for each other. Crazy world of rock n roll! ;)