Drowning.......

[John Run]

In a Sea of Whine.....

That's what has happened to this board.

It is a completely unenjoyable place, filled with anger, venom, petty arguments, and personal attacks.

Signing off until this board returns to at least focusing some of its energy and time to the music of this great band.

[seeknpeace]

But John before you run away, consider this. Look at the number of threads on the board, then look at the number of them dedicated to the topic of the fan club and so forth. The fan club is a much smaller portion or percent of what is discussed on the board than other. Chit chat and "what if" discussions dominate the board, so go and read that part. Don't leave, just choose what you read. The board needs both. But, not to the exclusion of other topics.

[Dulcimer]

I have to agree with you, John. I can't believe the level of hostility on this board.

Isn't it time to put an end to all the discussions about the fan club fiasco? It looks like a lot of people who were kicked out from Mick's board have come over here to whine, then they start attacking other Ledge members who are well meaning folks.

Enough already.

Why aren't the moderators or the board's owner doing anything about this?

[glitter_fades]

Originally posted by Dulcimer

Isn't it time to put an end to all the discussions about the fan club fiasco?

Why?

[seeknpeace]

Isn't it time to put an end to all the discussions about the fan club fiasco?

May I ask you Dulcimer, do you know what really happened over on Micks board? Why would bringing this information to other fans be whining or hostile? I am confused about that. I, for one, am not whining and I am not hostile. I have something that I want to say and I would like to share it with you, but, if you are not interested, it is your choice to not read it. I am not defaming you or anyone, I am not attacking you or anyone, I am not cussing you or anyone, so why would that bother you? Just don't read it. I, for one, am not wondering where FMac would be if Stevie and Lindsey had not joined, but, I am not hammering the person who started that post or calling them whiners or names?

[SaraRhiannon]

Originally posted by Dulcimer

Isn't it time to put an end to all the discussions about the fan club fiasco?


The "fan club fiasco" is directly related to the Rumours-era lineup of Fleetwood Mac; therefore, I would think it would be an appropriate discussion topic for this forum. If you're not interested in reading anything else on the topic, I would suggest you just plain don't click on the threads.

And correct me if I'm wrong, but isn't there a "fan club info" sticky topic (started by the owner of this website) at the top of this forum? The existence of that thread leads me to think that perhaps the "fan club fiasco" IS a valid discussion topic for this forum.

But if you don't think you'll be able to skip over the fan club threads and/or stifle your need to complain, I would suggest that you get in contact with a moderator and voice your concerns. It's better for all involved if we let the *moderators* moderate the board & decide which topics are appropriate for discussion.

[seeknpeace]

Oh, and for information purposes:

at the time that this thread was started, there were 40 threads on the board, 42 with the two sticky ones.

There were 10 contending with the fan club or discontent regarding it, and one of them is this thread, so really 9. Pretty good odds to read something else huh? And, that is only on this page.

[Dulcimer]

It's quite obvious to me that there's a handful of people around here with an ax to grind and are going to do everything they can to be as obnoxious as possible.

I agree with John Run about his assessment of this board lately. I don't post often, but I come here a lot to get news about the band. It's a bummer to have to wade through complaint after complaint to get to something useful. I'm not sure I understand why Marty and the moderators let this go on. Why allow threads created for the specific purpose of whining about something going on in another board? It baffles me. I could see an occasional thread or two, but it's been a constant thing.

Go ahead and keep grinding your axes if it makes you happy. As far as I can see, it's a waste of time and energy, and a disservice to this board.

Flame me all you want. I'm done with this topic and with posting for a while. Have your fun.

[Gypsy-Rhiannon]

Originally posted by Dulcimer
It's quite obvious to me that there's a handful of people around here with an ax to grind and are going to do everything they can to be as obnoxious as possible.

I am contibuting the the threads in question but don't believe I have been obnoxious

Pip

[tommer]

Why aren't the moderators or the board's owner doing anything about this?
because free speech is a board's main purpuse.Signing off until this board returns to at least focusing some of its energy and time to the music of this great band.
Goodbye Baby.

[Cour]

Originally posted by Dulcimer
It's quite obvious to me that there's a handful of people around here with an ax to grind and are going to do everything they can to be as obnoxious as possible.

I agree with John Run about his assessment of this board lately. I don't post often, but I come here a lot to get news about the band. It's a bummer to have to wade through complaint after complaint to get to something useful. I'm not sure I understand why Marty and the moderators let this go on. Why allow threads created for the specific purpose of whining about something going on in another board? It baffles me. I could see an occasional thread or two, but it's been a constant thing.

Go ahead and keep grinding your axes if it makes you happy. As far as I can see, it's a waste of time and energy, and a disservice to this board.

Flame me all you want. I'm done with this topic and with posting for a while. Have your fun.


Besides free speech and the posts not breaking any rules the Penguin has set up, Marty is a FAN. Many of his friends and fellow fans have been hurt by this fanclub and the person who is running it. Since the Penguin is the most popular and frequently visited site for Fleetwood Mac FANS, why shouldn't this site be a place to get current and truthful information about a club that is hurting many fans in this community.

As Sara pointed out, you might want to look at the sticky thread Marty has posted and kept at the top of this board for almost 2 months.


It's also been pointed out that there are over 40 threads on page 1 of this Rumours board, surely you can manage to navigate around and scroll past the ones that don't interest you, since they are in the minority.


For the few people who are complaining about the direction they think this board is taking, why not turn things around and post some topics that might make you feel like this board serves the purpose you would like? Everyone has something to contribute, why not start a few new topics.

[CarneVaca]

True free speech is not allowed on this board. Marty has even said as much. Anyone who thinks so hasn't been around long enough or hasn't paid attention.

[Cour]

Originally posted by CarneVaca
True free speech is not allowed on this board. Marty has even said as much. Anyone who thinks so hasn't been around long enough or hasn't paid attention.

I believe we were talking about free speech in the context of an internet message board. If it's true free speech someone is seeking, I think there are other alternatives to the Penguin.

Many of us have been lurking here for years, some, since this board opened. People are aware of what has gone on here in the past. I think most fans are happy that the board has found a happy medium with the moderators that most people seem to be able to live with. IMO, the advantages to this board far outweigh not having "true" free speech and we're happy that Marty continues to provide this forum for us.

[jeffles]

Dulcimer--if you'd been ripped off, you would be frustrated as well. You don't have to read they're (valid) complaints. Go on to another post. There are plenty of others.

I am not a member of the fan club, nor do I know much about what is going on there. The only thing I would say is that if you are looking for a refund, etc., do something about it. Posting here probably won't get too far.

Call the Attorney General's office in the state of California and file a complaint. If they get enough complaints, they'll investigate.

[dissention]

If you don't like or agree with something, don't read it. You have a choice in what you do. But don't try to tell others what or what not to post about, or try to start arguments or discontent by insulting posters and the things they post about.

The fan club fiasco has everything to do with FM, therefore people have every right to post about it. If you don't want to read it, don't read it. But by posting things like that, John, you make things even worse.

Also, there is no one who came from Mick's board to the Ledge who is here just to start things or be obnoxious. If anyone thinks that, you have no clue as to what you're saying. Everyone that I've seen from Mick's board joins in on conversations about the Mac and adds plenty to this board.

[The Tower]

Originally posted by John Run
In a Sea of Whine.....

That's what has happened to this board.

It is a completely unenjoyable place, filled with anger, venom, petty arguments, and personal attacks.

Signing off until this board returns to at least focusing some of its energy and time to the music of this great band.

Yawn.... see ya!!!! Don't let the door hit yer ass on the way out!!! If fans can't get together to share their feelings then this band really IS over....

I would rather have people CARE about FM and express their true opinions than have a bunch of sycophants saying, "Yes, yes, yes....."

Everyone's opinion is legitimate.

[ERigby818]

Well, I don't mind all the threads about Micks site, even though I never really used Mick's site (occasional lurking--kinda like watching a train wreck, you want to stop looking, but you just can't) and I didn't get ripped off. But I have been following this whole scandal and I find it informative, appalling (the fact that one slimy individual ripped a lot of people off and put them through so many infuriating experiences) and entertaining (all the clever jokes, funny epithets and anecdotes people have come up with as a way of seeing any humor in this whole fiasco). I have read a lot of the threads about it because I want to know what's going on and I empathize with the people who are complaining. Usually I don't have anything to add. I certainly don't have time to read all of the threads and more often I will read the other ones about the music and the band. But I think it is TOTALLY appropriate to vent your woes about Mick's stupid site and its scummy administrator here, because like Sara said, it does concern the Rumours lineup of the band and we are all huge fans. The folks who were hurt wouldn't be hurt if they didn't love this band so much, and that love for the band was totally taken advantage of, IMO. Most of the time you can tell what the thread is about by how it's titled (although I admit I had no idea what this one was about when I clicked).
So my point is...to those who were ripped off- I'm sorry for what happened to you. Kvetch away. To those who are sick of reading about it--choose carefully when you click on a thread, because there is still SO much to be enjoyed on this board if you are not interested in reading about the FC thing or other negative stuff...and it will die down soon...hopefully with results everyone will be pleased with ;)
-Sonia

[Miranda]

I like to read about it too. I'm glad for the warnings. Thanks for keeping us informed. It's welcome and very appropriate to discuss topics that concern this lineup and how their fans are being treated.

[Tango]

for me, it's been trying to swim out of a sea of slime. I'm sorry if hearing of people being ripped off by The Official Fleetwood Mac Fan Club makes you unhappy.

It doesn't exactly make ME happy either. "So why the hell are you so sad." Being ripped off makes me incredibly unhappy, particularly because I was sooooo looking forward to this album and tour. Now it's got an UGLY blemish on it. And if our posting makes Mr. Todd unhappy, I couldn't be happier. He was in full control of his board, and deleted and banned to his personal contentment. I want you to know I HAVEN'T been banned from that site. EVER. I've never been "disrespectful" on that site or here. I keep hoping the managers of the band will step up to the plate and do something. I love this band. And I HATE what that hired hand did to us.

I've never been disrespectful of the band, to any individual member of the band nor of their family or friends. I love the band. Totally. I've never been disrespectful to anyone on this board. Ever.

I am grateful to the support and forbearance of The Penguin and it's moderators. They have shown us in many ways, chiefly behind the scenes, their support. And most of them NEVER even joined the fan club. I am not a refugee "to" The Penguin. I've always been here. You just didn't know it.

To those that didn't join the fanclub, as you posted, and are glad you learned about it because of fans speaking out, that's good to know.

I am LOVING hearing the reviews about the tour, reading the articles. YOU guys are what's turning so much around for me. I've loved reading the comments about the album, the tour reviews.

I am sure Mr. Todd is pleased to read that you don't want to have this information about the fan club posted here. LOL! He can't control this board and now HE'S not happy! btw, if you newbies happen to be, um, workin' for him . . . . it isn't working. Too much too little too late.

Mr. Todd, if you can get yourself a copy of The Heavy Metal Soundtrack, being the big FM fan that you are, I dedicate the Stevie song on that to you. Make us happy, and we'll post on your happy thread.
:wavey:

[darklinensuit]

Put your money where your mouth is, or at least where our money used to be. When you decide to reimburse us for our fan club membership, I'll respect your right to tell us not to complain about this club.
And BTW, though I joined the club, I have never visited the club's message board, but I have posted plenty here about the band's music. I don't recall that those posts ever merited a response from you, but you have chosen to whine about our club posts. So much for OUR misuse of this board and OUR tendency to criticize.

That having been said, I hope you'll be back. I enjoy posts from all the FM fans who are out there, and the more opinions represented, the better. My only objection is to your attempt to stop some people from posting opinions that are relevant to this band. My opinions are welcome, theirs are, and yours are, too.

- Jake

[SaraRhiannon]

Originally posted by darklinensuit
Put your money where your mouth is, or at least where our money used to be. When you decide to reimburse us for our fan club membership, I'll respect your right to tell us not to complain about this club.
And BTW, though I joined the club, I have never visited the club's message board, but I have posted plenty here about the band's music. I don't recall that those posts ever merited a response from you, but you have chosen to whine about our club posts. So much for OUR misuse of this board and OUR tendency to criticize.

That having been said, I hope you'll be back. I enjoy posts from all the FM fans who are out there, and the more opinions represented, the better. My only objection is to your attempt to stop some people from posting opinions that are relevant to this band. My opinions are welcome, theirs are, and yours are, too.

- Jake


Wonderful. Thank you. ::::applause:::: :nod:

[glitter_fades]

Originally posted by The Tower
Yawn.... see ya!!!! Don't let the door hit yer ass on the way out!!! If fans can't get together to share their feelings then this band really IS over....

I would rather have people CARE about FM and express their true opinions than have a bunch of sycophants saying, "Yes, yes, yes....."

Everyone's opinion is legitimate.


Clap, clap, clap, clap!!!!!!!!!!!:wavey: