FM Members should be held responsible for the Knight and Fan Club disaster

[jeffs]

It would be naive to think that Fleetwood Mac has no knowledge of what has and is still going on. Are they directly involved in the fraud or completely removed from it? I contacted the California Dept of Consumer Protection and got a confirmation letter back from the District Attorney's office confirming that they are looking at the situation. I would think FM management would have atleast been contacted. Should I disrespect the band members more for honestly not knowing what is going on or should I disrespect them more for knowing what is going on and doing nothing to rectify the situation to the satisfaction of burned fan club members. As one thread has discussed - now excellent tickets are poping up for shows just days and weeks before the date of the event and I'm sitting with $400 worth of average seats and a $60 fan club bill. I will go to this concert and thourouly enjoy it and than probably never buy another Fleetwood Mac product or support them in any way until I get atleast some kind of indication from one or more band members that they are aware of the past and present problems with the fan club and are taking steps to atleast address them with Jonathan Todd, like not paying him. I will read this board to get some feedback on the concerts leading up to the Continental Arena show on May 25th and I than plan to divorce myself from this band. Just like us mere mortals, they should be held accountable for things that carry their name on them.

[nae]

I can understand your feelings even though I'm not a fan club member. What happened should not be overlooked or forgotten.
One of the reasons that I'm not traveling to Dallas to see them is because I don't want to spend the money. I do have the money, but I was left with a sick feeling over everything that happened with the fan club. Now, if they come to Houston then I'll probably go and see them. I love the music and the band too much to totally disregard them, but I WILL NOT go out of my way to see them anymore like I used to.~~~ I think the Knight(or whatever his name is) should be fired & an apology letter sent to all the fan club members from the band.

Nae

[seeknpeace]

It is great to see some names pop up that I have not seen who are also still incensed about what happened on Micks site and with the fan club.

We are in great hopes that something will happen and you are right about the band. They should have been more aware of what was going down and who they hired. JT's intentions seem to only be money in his pocket. As a board that was named "official" for our favortive band, we all expected to see such high quality ppl running it, like Marty and Sara and even John Kinney. But, instead, we ended up with a corporate interent person who has an ego as big as all of the continental US and does not care one whit for the fans, who we are, how we feel, etc.

His big mistake is thinking that we get mad and then go away. Wrong. And, also, he totally misunderstands who the Mac fans are.

We are doctors, lawyers, stock brokers, taxi drivers, butchers, bakers and candle stick makers. There are enough ppl in this community with enough strings and anger to make a difference. And, he thought we were like fans of Jennifer Love Hewitt or something. He has infuriated me. I am not and will not get over what he did to us all, financially and emotionally.

The band needs to step up to the plate. NOW.

[David]

Originally posted by seeknpeace
The band needs to step up to the plate. NOW. They're undoubtedly following Stevie's lead; she allowed a certifiable madwoman---someone who, to this day, trolls Usenet groups---to interact with the fans via the fan mail.

When this woman's psychological meltdown was complete & many people even witnessed it, she was removed from the official Kinney-run site & stripped of any remaining fanmail-related duties.

Large numbers of fans have also had trouble with Stevie's brother & his attitude, but of course, being a sibling, he's in for the long run.

When it comes to this band, perhaps it's really best to just "stand back" from all the various fan clubs & crumbs thrown your way.

Pretend it's Amway.

[CarneVaca]

This band doesn't much care about the fans. You guys are wasting your energy.

[chiliD]

Originally posted by David
Pretend it's Amway.

Or Herbalife. ;)

[glitter_fades]

I agree. The band has to know something by now. They can act like they don't know but they can't be that out of the loop when people have contacted their management and complained to the CAG and BBB.

Also, who's forcing the band to shower him with perks so he can pay off his handful of fan supporters?

Amway, Herbalife, PTL, Pyramid, Ponzi, any way you slice it, it reeks.

[Bella Figura]

"We are doctors, lawyers, stock brokers, taxi drivers, butchers, bakers and candle stick makers. There are enough ppl in this community with enough strings and anger to make a difference. And, he thought we were like fans of Jennifer Love Hewitt or something. He has infuriated me."

but as professionals, we should all realise that it takes alot of rational complaining for a long period of time before a person (especially a slippery snake-type) gets their comeupence (sp) and maybe is finally fired. I've been in corporate America for over twenty years and I've witnessed quite a few imcompetents and what I call "corporate barnacles" and believe me the vast majority know how to spin their webs and survive.

JT was hired by FM to run the site therefore he already has the benefit of the doubt when things go wrong. FM will naturally listen to his "side" and be biased towards his side. Only a constant sustained flow of rational complaints for a long period of time will get them to change their position. And most likely by that time, the tour (which is Right Now the Top business priority) will be over and the site will probably die out on it's own so a silent parting of the ways will happen between JT and FM...

and JT will be off onto his next venture using the FM website as a notch on his resume(especially after deleting all negative posts)...snakes, cockroaches whatever you call 'em survive...

and you will be left hating your favorite band, why let him win?? Do what you can, send intelligent complaints through whatever channels you have access to, post that information so others can do the same. Finally be satisfied you did what you could do best and it was the right thing even if nothing definitive or nothing you ever see comes of it...

[GardenStateGirlie]

Don't hate Fleetwood Mac because of some Jackass who runs a website. While I'm not a member of the fan club, quite honestly, I don't blame Fleetwood Mac. Right now, they're preparing to give us the tour of their lives and are conseqentially focused on doing just that. They shouldn't HAVE to worry about things like this. I blame their managment and whoever decided there should be a website in the first place. I highly doubt the website is a money-making venture for the band because they would have hopped on the internet bandwagon 5 years ago and have done this. However, I don't doubt it's a money-making venture for <i>someone</i>.

If I were you guys, hell yea, i'd be <b>STEAMING</b>. However, I don't believe the band knows about it and if they did, I think they would agree it's bull****. Stevie is the nicest, sweetest, most genuine person in the world and while I don't know any of the other band members, I will say that she really truly cares about each and every single person that buys an album and listens to her music...she would be pissed off about this and she wouldn't stand for it. I don't think Lindsey would be happy about it either and since John never speaks, who knows what he would say? As far as Mick is concerned...well, he's Mick....but don't let this negative fan club experience ruin the bands reputation...I'm positive they wouldn't have wanted it to turn out this way. The only way in which the band is guilty is in having trusted the wrong people. :nod:

[glitter_fades]

You make a lot of sense, Bella. It takes a steady flow of sustained complaints to get results over time. These types know that and usually just wait it out. I fell in line with it for a while. I've just gotten very discouraged by the whole thing and the band/their people not addressing it in any way.

I disagree, Marissa, that the band doesn't know about it. Their people do and they should be held accountable. If the band didn't have a financial stake in it they wouldn't have allowed the "official site" sanction to be used by the fan club director. The band may have limited control of the club at this point but that does not prevent them from publicly denouncing the club or distancing themselves from it. Their silence speaks volumes to me. I don't expect every fan to be mad at the band for what's happened but fans should at least expect a few answers. That's the least the fan community can do to support one another. Not everyone got taken by the fan club, but the whole thing is leaving FM with a questionable legacy. I'd think the band and their fans would care about that a little bit.

[Miranda]

Originally posted by Bella Figura
we should all realise that it takes alot of rational complaining for a long period of time before a person (especially a slippery snake-type) gets their comeupence (sp) and maybe is finally fired. I've been in corporate America for over twenty years and I've witnessed quite a few imcompetents and what I call "corporate barnacles" and believe me the vast majority know how to spin their webs and survive.

JT was hired by FM to run the site therefore he already has the benefit of the doubt when things go wrong. FM will naturally listen to his "side" and be biased towards his side. Only a constant sustained flow of rational complaints for a long period of time will get them to change their position. And most likely by that time, the tour (which is Right Now the Top business priority) will be over and the site will probably die out on it's own so a silent parting of the ways will happen between JT and FM...

and JT will be off onto his next venture using the FM website as a notch on his resume(especially after deleting all negative posts)...snakes, cockroaches whatever you call 'em survive...

and you will be left hating your favorite band, why let him win?? Do what you can, send intelligent complaints through whatever channels you have access to, post that information so others can do the same. Finally be satisfied you did what you could do best and it was the right thing even if nothing definitive or nothing you ever see comes of it...

I did not join but I think it's important for all fans who think this is wrong to complain. I will step up if somebody will post info about the proper forums. Does anyone have addresses or URL's to share that can help those of us who are just finding out about all of this?

[GardenStateGirlie]

Originally posted by glitter_fades
You make a lot of sense, Bella. It takes a steady flow of sustained complaints to get results over time. These types know that and usually just wait it out. I fell in line with it for a while. I've just gotten very discouraged by the whole thing and the band/their people not addressing it in any way.

I disagree, Marissa, that the band doesn't know about it. Their people do and they should be held accountable. If the band didn't have a financial stake in it they wouldn't have allowed the "official site" sanction to be used by the fan club director. The band may have limited control of the club at this point but that does not prevent them from publicly denouncing the club or distancing themselves from it. Their silence speaks volumes to me. I don't expect every fan to be mad at the band for what's happened but fans should at least expect a few answers. That's the least the fan community can do to support one another. Not everyone got taken by the fan club, but the whole thing is leaving FM with a questionable legacy. I'd think the band and their fans would care about that a little bit.

You also have to take into consideration that we as the online base of fans only make up a SMALL portion of the general fan base. There are probably a lot more people that are happy with their tickets than are not happy. Yea, I definately think the band should say something but I wouldn't hold my breathe if I were you. By speaking out, they'd be stepping on too many toes and in this situation, I think it's difficult to place the blame on one person. If it was simply one person that was the cause of this whole fiasco, they could most likely rectify the situation. Yes, we know the ass who runs the site but some other ass had to hire him and i'm sure there are way more people that work behind the scenes to keep that up and running. This band has been around a long time as has their entourage which i'm sure they have trusted for many years. I do blame the band for putting their **** into the hands of people who are obviously not qualified enough to handle the online fanbase. I absolutely blame them for that. BUT, at the same time, they're probably not hearing about all the people who got screwed over by the fan club. Why would their management tell them? They would probably hope that it all blows over and that you guys will peter out and stop making a stink about it so that way, everyones jobs are still secure and they can keep on profiting off of the band. I think you guys should keep fighting it. I work for a television station as an intern and I do have the ability to submit show ideas. The only people that would be seeing the show would be residents of Delaware, Pennsylvania, Maryland and New Jersey, but nontheless, word would be getting out. I'll pitch the idea and let you know what happens.

[glitter_fades]

Originally posted by GardenStateGirlie


You also have to take into consideration that we as the online base of fans only make up a SMALL portion of the general fan base. There are probably a lot more people that are happy with their tickets than are not happy.

What you say makes sense. Let's not forget what this means, though. Of course most fans are happy with their seats because most fans DID NOT buy their seats from the fan club. Also, most fans are not buying seats at all. Is any venue sold out yet? The online fan community is not a huge segment of the overall fan base, but the people who joined the fan club had to do so via the Internet. I never saw or heard of any other access to joining the fan club except via the Internet, so the people who are not happy are by default part of the online fan base. Does that mean it's ok to ignore the problem because only a few hundred to a few thousand peope got fleeced? A hundred people talking to dozens of friends and other non-connected fans grows exponentially. If the band and their people think that by ignoring what happend is the best strategy, so be it.

This strategy might work if the whole cd/tour thing were taking off like a bullet. I don't know how wise it is to anger your most faithful and vocal fan base when you need their support to get those arenas filled. To my knowledge not a single venue is sold out yet and the tour starts in 2 days! I'm not going out of my way to provide excuses, etc. to convice friends who dissed the Today or Leno performances that the band is not just another oldies act trying to cash in one last time. The casual fans I know are not going to the shows this time and have not bought the cd. They have read a lot of mixed reviews on the cd and were not impressed by the TV promos. Before this club stuff happened, I'd be feverishly talking eveyone I know into jumping on the "band" wagon. They won't get that kind of support form me by ignoring my complaints about the fan club.


I think you guys should keep fighting it. I work for a television station as an intern and I do have the ability to submit show ideas. The only people that would be seeing the show would be residents of Delaware, Pennsylvania, Maryland and New Jersey, but nontheless, word would be getting out. I'll pitch the idea and let you know what happens.

This idea really rocks, Marissa! If management had to explain to the media why the band is not commenting about the fan club complaints, that would force the issue one way or another. The way the media is these days, I'm not sure anybody cares to look very deeply into the facts. Can't hurt to float a trial balloon. You rock! :D

[Bella Figura]

I've read quite a few posts about letter writing campaigns, refunds and the like...

but I can't say for sure since I did not join the fanclub. I've never had any luck with those things and the old adage kept telling me "if it's too good to be true, it probably isn't".

there was information posted awhile ago during the mass bannings there is still some good information over at the message board at www.sararhiannon.com

[SmthngOfADreamr]

I hate to sound like a pessimist, but I highly doubt that we will ever receive any retribution for what has happened. Basically Carne is right, I don't think the band really cares that much about the fans. As much as we would love to believe otherwise, seeing as how we care so much about them, I just don't think they do.

But to address the initial question at hand - they should absolutely be held responsible. They are not children. They are several decade older than many of us on this site who consider ourselves their greatest fans. They are capable of informing themsleves as to what is happening, and taking the necessary steps to correct any wrongdoing. The vile acts against the fans have been going on for months now. Something would have happened by now, or we would have heard something by now in the form of a statement form one of the band members.. But we haven't . Basically we just have to put this behind us. :(

[jeffs]

one. Maybe Lindsey and Stevie can do an original written from the ground up two part harmony about it on their next album

[seeknpeace]

If you want to have your voice heard regarding the fan club;

Internet Fraud, if you lost money:

www1.ifccfbi.gov/index.asp

CA Attorney Gen:

www.caag.state.ca.us/cons...ilform.htm

This is the Knights info that you will need to complete the forms:

CO. DIRECTOR: JONATHAN TODD
CO: SABRE MARK INC., FLEETWOOD MAC FAN CLUB
CO. ADDRESS: 5737 KANAN RD. SUITE 237
CO. CITY; AGOURA HILLS
CO. STATE: CA
CO. ZIP: 91301
CO. PHONE: 818-865-9993

Warner Bros. Email:

[email protected]

ABC 20/20:

abcnews.go.com/sections/2..._form.html

Along with filing an internet fraud claim, file a report with the Better Business Bureau:

www.bbb.org

Individual Band Member Managers:

Lindsey Buckingham -
Tony Dimitriades, East End Management Company
12441 Ventura Ct.
Studio City, CA 91604-2417
818.985.5060
818.985.5069 fax

Mick Fleetwood - Carl Stubner , President of Immortal Records Music Division and the Artist Manager speaking on behalf of Fleetwood Mac , 12750 Ventura Blvd #202, Studio City, CA 91604

John McVie - Carl Stubner Deluxe President Immortal Records Music Div, 12750 Ventura Blvd #202, Studio City, CA 91604

Stevie Nicks
HK Management
Howard Kaufman
Sheryl Louis
9200 Sunset Blvd Ste. 530
LA, CA 90069
310.550.5250
310.550.5241 fax


Write to Lindseys FOR SURE.

[dissention]

Originally posted by David
They're undoubtedly following Stevie's lead; she allowed a certifiable madwoman---someone who, to this day, trolls Usenet groups---to interact with the fans via the fan mail.

When this woman's psychological meltdown was complete & many people even witnessed it, she was removed from the official Kinney-run site & stripped of any remaining fanmail-related duties.

Large numbers of fans have also had trouble with Stevie's brother & his attitude, but of course, being a sibling, he's in for the long run.

When it comes to this band, perhaps it's really best to just "stand back" from all the various fan clubs & crumbs thrown your way.

Pretend it's Amway.

Stevie's brother is a pig and everyone should know it. He's probably used his status as Stevie's brother to sleep with more women than a Manhattan gigolo. He's a man-whore. And I don't think Lori is very blind to it, either...but that's a different thread.

And let us NOT forget his organization of the Official Stevie Nicks Fan Club back in the early eighties. What a crook. No wonder he opts not to run one now; he'd be arrested. I'm still waiting on my t-shirts and posters.

He does whatever he can to ride on Stevie's coattails so that he can line his pockets with gold. He's in it for the free ride, nothing else.

MORAL OF THE STORY: If you ever attend a Stevie concert and Chris Nicks approaches you, turn around and run as fast as you can. As fast as you can. Or be prepared...

Ooops, almost forgot this one: after he screwed fan club members, he turned around and sold the t-shirts and merch that was meant for members through Rolling Stone. Slime, eh?

[dissention]

And I do agree, FM is as much to blame for this as JT is. It's their job to know what's going on under their name. If they want to neglect that, fine. But let's not look through rose-tinted glasses at the fact that they are responsible for hiring shady businessmen, forgetting about the fans, and doing things that are akin to theft. They know and they don't care.

[Spunky1]

I got burned by that fan club big time! Bought 2 MCI tickets and ended up paying over $300 (tickets, fees and fan club membership) for my shot at the best 20% of the arena. I ended up nearly in the back of the arena in an upper level section. I wrote e-mails to JT and never received a response. I wrote numerous posts on his board, many of them in threads long since deleted. I continue to post over there in hopes that it won't just die. Apparently, they are working on something nice for the fan club members, there are talks of behind the scenes video footage--big deal!! That is not why I joined that lousy club. I joined because of the deceiving wording about how members could get GREAT concert seats using the fan club presale. Heck, they made it seem like our chances were so awesome that because there was a 4 ticket limit we could have a husband or brother or sister join the club to purchase an additional 4 fan club tickets. What a big loadacrap!! CROOKS! Anyhow, I practically gave my fan club tickets away on ebay and just last night bought 14th row on the floor thru Ticketmaster. Do you think that's an indication of how ticket sales are going?

BTW, what in the world is up with the meltdown of Ginny K? I musta missed that one.

Thx,
Nancy

[sparky]

Originally posted by dissention
Stevie's brother is a pig and everyone should know it. He's probably used his status as Stevie's brother to sleep with more women than a Manhattan gigolo. He's a man-whore. And I don't think Lori is very blind to it, either...but that's a different thread.

And let us NOT forget his organization of the Official Stevie Nicks Fan Club back in the early eighties. What a crook. No wonder he opts not to run one now; he'd be arrested. I'm still waiting on my t-shirts and posters.



Oh, the stories I could repeat. Nasty National Enquirer kind of stuff.

But, on but Stevie Fan Club front, I didn't get ripped off. I still have all that stuff that I got in the early eighties. Granted, at a point it all just stopped. What a waste. But, the guy has the rights to do the "club" and can't be bothered. Whatever.

[gldstwmn]

Originally posted by David


Pretend it's Amway.

:laugh: :laugh: :laugh: :laugh: :laugh: :laugh: :laugh: :laugh: :laugh:

[Gypsy-Rhiannon]

Can Someone please provide the name of Stevies mgmt, I think that it is HK and I don't know their addy. I have all this somewhere but, I am having a hard time putting my hands on it. Write to Lindseys FOR SURE. [/B]

HK Management
9200 Sunset Blvd
West Hollywood
CA 90069

Pip

[rianbay1]

IMO the Fan Club is Mick's baby...period. If I were Stevie and Lindsey, I guess the last thing I would be worried about, RIGHT NOW especially, is if Mick has hired reputable people to man a fan club that they probably have little to no involvement in (directly anyway). Mick has been known to hire some shady people that have blatantly ripped him off. Anyone remember Frank Harding?

BRIAN

[Gypsy-Rhiannon]

This was all about Mick to begin with. Don't you guys remember that it was originally to be a Mick Fleetwood Fan Club until people started shouting that they would rather join a Fleetwood Mac one.

Pip

[glitter_fades]

Yes, I remember how that went down. Like a lot of other things that were floated there, I recall people were baited on this topic and then once enough of them bit, it was delivered as if by request.

[Livia]

Remember the infamous "If you f*%# with my people, I'm gonna get really f#&%ing angry!" bootleg of Stevie yelling at security guards? For that reason, I have a hard time believing that Stevie, for one, knows anything yet. Maybe Mick knows, but his hands are dirty too.

:(

[enibs78]

Originally posted by Gypsy-Rhiannon
This was all about Mick to begin with. Don't you guys remember that it was originally to be a Mick Fleetwood Fan Club until people started shouting that they would rather join a Fleetwood Mac one.

Pip

JT is definitely Mick's baby. They partnered on Mick's Total Drumming project and JT designed and ran Mick's web site before the fan club ever existed. One article last year described JT as Mick's "friend and marketing partner." It would be unfair to blame him on anyone in the band other than Mick.