I'm sorry but I think Lindsey is a little overrated

[Craig]

I'm very much wondernig what everyone sees in LIndsey around here, I think he's extremely talented and prob the best guitar player I know about on earth but I don't give him all the red carpet mess everyoen seems to.

Now, I am indeed a stevie fan moreso than Lindsey but that's not really why I am making this thread, I just think he's given way too much credit.

I love his work all the way up to Tango and I'm sure he arranged all the songs on the Dance but Say you will is very much like that Cradle solo album he had..which was a lot like his former work.

I just don't hear anything new from him at all.

about his production of stevie songs, I used to think he was the best, I mean he IS the best so far but I don't think she is nothing without his production, trouble in shangrila.

Mac has turned into his group, I get that, it turned into his group LONG ago but I just think he's not all that.

[strandinthewind]

Everyone is entitled to their opinion. Here is mine. I like LB and think some of his songs shine on SWY (esp. Miranda, Say Goodbye, and in its own way Come). I do think, however, that based on what I have seen he needs to take a few vocal lessons. Perhaps he will. Then he will be even better.

[Craig]

well, I love red rover and a few other of his songs on there, I don't think he's awful, I tend to love his background vocals..in Gypsy he sounds really good, very fatherlike in When I see you again.

I just think peopel give him way too much.

[FiercestCalmSea]

It's all good..your opinion is just that,yours.

[GardenStateGirlie]

Originally posted by Craig
I'm very much wondernig what everyone sees in LIndsey around here, I think he's extremely talented and prob the best guitar player I know about on earth but I don't give him all the red carpet mess everyoen seems to.

Now, I am indeed a stevie fan moreso than Lindsey but that's not really why I am making this thread, I just think he's given way too much credit.

I love his work all the way up to Tango and I'm sure he arranged all the songs on the Dance but Say you will is very much like that Cradle solo album he had..which was a lot like his former work.

I just don't hear anything new from him at all.

about his production of stevie songs, I used to think he was the best, I mean he IS the best so far but I don't think she is nothing without his production, trouble in shangrila.

Mac has turned into his group, I get that, it turned into his group LONG ago but I just think he's not all that.

I agree with you to a certain extent. However, I really don't think that he's given too much credit. He is dedicated to his craft and he truly loves what he does. He made three albums that essentially floped because he wanted to experiment and take some chances. I absolutely love OOTC and I truly think that he is perhaps the most talented guitarist alive...at least in my humble opinion he is. He is amazing and his contributions to this new album are substantial. I do feel the band makes certain to not rub his ego the wrong way...whether that's out of fear that they'll piss him off or not, I don't know. I wouldn't go as far to say that Fleetwood Mac turned into his band a long time ago....I think when things went down in the 70s, he took control of the situation because no one else stepped up to the plate. I wouldn't say that Stevie is nothing without Lindsey especially since I feel that Trouble in Shangri La is some of her best solo work. But, I would say that he brings out the best in her and actually, they bring out the best in each other. After all, isn't that what makes Fleetwood Mac, Fleetwood Mac?

[Gazza]

I think Out Of The Cradle is in a different league to anything I've heard from the others personally, and easily up there with the best Mac albums. The live performances that I've seen/heard during the tour for that were great, and I loved the concept of having 5 guitarists out there.

I watched the vh1 top 100 women the other day, with Stevie at #13.... The guy said that there was a lot of talent there, but without her, Fleetwood Mac were going nowhere.

Without Lindsey, I doubt she would have got to where she was going as quickly. So if anything, she's the one that get's a little too much credit. They were equally important to the mix imo. Stevies looks and voice + Lindseys guitar playing and arranging.

As for "nothing new"... He's constantly developing ideas, as you can see when you read any interviews with him. I don't know of many other big name 50 years olds still doing that.

[CarneVaca]

Well, Craig, what does one have to accomplish not to be considered overrated in your eyes? Critics and DJs, not to mention us fans, constantly say Lindsey is UNDERated. You must know something we don't.

Then again, I'm sure you think Stevie deserves all the attention she gets, right?

[darklinensuit]

I think Lindsey's great. The only credit I think is undeserved is where people say he brings out the best in Stevie and her songs. (Granted, she helps fuel this perception by writing about him so often still.) I think many of her demos sound great even before any producer gets his hands on them.
Also, while I love much of Lindsey's music on any given album, I wish he would vary the sounds more. JMO

- Jake

[Mad4stevie]

I think it all started when Lindsey didn't get the props for everything he did on the Rumours album. And then on Tusk, he took control and was blamed for the "commercial failure" (pleezz). After that he was alot more conservative, I think, in his contributions to the Mac. Some of his stuff on SYW harkens to those dreadful Lindsey songs on Tusk that I didn't like - so it appears he is off "exploring the left side of his palette" again.

I think Lindsey deserves credit for his guitar playing, his production and his arrangement of songs. However, I do not think his voice is good anymore, and I have never really been crazy about any songs of his since Rumours.

[Craig]

I never meant to make it seem like I think he sucks, I think his cronies in here might have taken that the wrong way.

I just think that he's praised a little too much.

Stevie goes on without him perfectly fine, I used to think that she needed him but I really think she CAN manage alone too.

I for one think he's always given himself the most songs, whicH I never agreed with because Tusk had some o fhis songs sounding a complete mess. If not fo rhis songs I think that album would have been FAR more successful and less panned. I mean it's stevies Best work ever.

I think that with all I've said about him that he IS the one to watch in fleetwood mac seeing that Christine and Stevie seemingly are always on top of things(minus tango for stevie) but it's Lindsey who has to be in it as well for the album to work.

I mean, he's the producer, if he's on some tangent then the album will sound like crap as well. I think he was on his game best with Tango in the night, I think he did an amazing job on that album.

I don't own out of the cradle but I have heard it and I thought it was his worst. I mean it's a huge rehash of songs he did with Mac, there was one song on there that was almost the exact same as Big love..er, I mean it would be fine if that album came out in 1988 or even 1989 but it came out in 1994 I think..that didn't sit well with me. Same on SYW, mullow and even Destiny rules sound like the chain part two and three to me.

Not to mention all the Dreams and Rhiannon rehashes we've had in mac history.

I say that loving Gold dust woman, sara, sister of the moon fireflies, gyspy and the rest but the sound was definetly linked to the past.

[Craig]

Originally posted by CarneVaca
Well, Craig, what does one have to accomplish not to be considered overrated in your eyes? Critics and DJs, not to mention us fans, constantly say Lindsey is UNDERated. You must know something we don't.

Then again, I'm sure you think Stevie deserves all the attention she gets, right?

Is there really a need for all that? meow.

Anyway, I definetly think Stevie deserves the credit she gets, I mean what credit does she get anyway? that without her the band wouldn't be where it is now? well you can give that credit to every member of the band.

She is of course the most recognizable member and the most popular, that's no fluke. Her songs aren't the groups most successful though, Christines are.

and I do know something you don't, that this is my opinion, I don't really care how many DJs think he's underrated, I personally think he's given way too much credit. I have always sort of resented how much of the projects he takes on himself..then to complain about his solo career getting overlooked(by himself as well). Big love apparently was meant for a solo album, I remember seeing that in the late 80s or early 90s in a muchmusic spotlight little clip..he seemed bitter but at the same time he also gave them the song.

I agree that Stevies demos are very good before anyone touches them, I loved her version of Not make believe better, her 80s demos as well.

I still very much would like to know what you think Stevie gets credit for and from that what you think she doesn't deserve.

[wondergirl9847]

OMG, OVERrated???????????????????????????????????????

EVERYONE is entitled to THEIR opinion.....even if they are WRONG! ;) :laugh:

Kidding. Sorta. LOL

I seriously think that it comes down to preference...not over or under rating. I think Lindsey is a FRICKIN GENIUS and deserves Grammys, Academy Awards (DANGIT, he NEEDS to do a movie soundtrack, I tell ya!!!!!), accolades out the yin-yang...but peeps just don't seem to GET Lindsey. :shrug: A LOT of people want safe, pre-packaged music, non-stimulating lyrics, fluff or what have you on a constant basis...fine. I mean, I do like Backstreet Boys, NSync, some Britney songs, etc...BUT, they aren't my faves and I don't cry at their songs or feel their lyrics in my soul. They are fun to listen to, that's it. I like all KINDS of music.

If ANYONE in this band is OVERrated it's.....Mick Fleetwood. I mean, he's a decent drummer, and his name is half of the name of the band, but come on! Granted, he's kept this band together so that we even HAVE a SYW, but I don't see how his drumming is innovative or really THAT interesting. I DO love that part in GYOW at the end and Tusk has great drumming, but other than that...I don't pay much attention to the drumming in FM. :shrug: DANG, I veered from THAT thread again...dang you, confessional thread!!! :mad: LOL

Don't flame me, please, it's been a hard week for me...lost my job and tomorrow is my last day to see my coworkers (my friends)...so...I'm just tired. :(

[Janet]

I will admit I don't like that every guitar on this album seems to be sped up. I guess I'll see what he can really do live and maybe he will shut me up and prove that all those quick solos and guitar parts are real.

I also wish he'd be more sensitive or more himself in his songs...and not try so hard.

But he is so gorgeous, whatever he lacks he makes up with looks. :)

[Craig]

not going to flame you, sorry about your job.

All I wanted to say was that it's not a question of getting something, I really don't like that whole attitude of not liking something being thought to be rooted in not getting it.

I just think the man is good, a great amazing guitarist who can produce the crap out of a song at times but I just don't think he's all THAT. that's all I meant with this thread.

I don't think not being into everything he does is about liking safe music either, I LOVE kate bush and that woman is so far beyond the scope of Lindsey when it comes to 'unsafe" music and just the thought process that goes behind her music far eclipses his imo. It' snothing about safe music with me is all I mean to say. I just think he goes out of his way sometimes and it doesn't work.

[Craig]

Originally posted by Janet


But he is so gorgeous, whatever he lacks he makes up with looks. :)
Ooh..nail..head..hit!!! tell me about it, not sure about NOW but that man has had some gorgeous days in his life. I'd most say from Tusk to Mirage or so, he looked FINE.:o

[wondergirl9847]

Not getting something, IMO, means, not connecting with that person's music. That's what I mean by that. I connect with Lindsey's music/guitar playing, in a way that I've NEVER done with ANY other artist...EVER. When I watch him do ISA on The Dance video...I cry. Nobody else in the WORLD may cry at that song/performance, but I do...it touches my soul. Red Rover makes me cry too. I "get" Lindsey because I connect with his lyrics/music. I understand what he's trying to say.

People connect with Stevie like I do with Lindsey....I understand how her lyrics/music can touch peoples' souls, but I don't connect with her like that. I enjoy her music immensely, but I've never cried listening to her music and it's never hit me, ya know? I don't "get" her...meaning, I don't connect with her music. Same with Miss Christine....LOVE her songs, but don't feel anything from them really except the song Why.

P.S. LINDSEY IS THE EPITOME OF GORGEOUSNESS!!! LOL I agree WHOLEHEARTEDLY with THAT statement! ;):D:nod:

[Craig]

well, stevie is my #3 behind Madonna and then Kate Bush so I don't feel a connection as deep as you do.

On the topic of Lindsey, does anyone know a good place to get Tusk-mirage era pics of him? That one pic in the tusk cd booklet of his blue eyes is a really nice one.

[estranged4life]

with what Christy said about connecting with someone on a musical level...

Believe it or not, I connect more with the progressive rock band Dream Theater. The last chapter (ie-"Losing Time/Grand Finale") of the EPIC song "Six Degrees Of Inner Turbulence" connects personally to me more than Stevie or Fleetwood Mac ever have...But it hasnt changed my opinion of either Stevie or FM. I don't try to compare the 2 groups because I see 'em on a equal ground, And that ground is that they both entertain me...Brian "Ytse Jammer" J.

[Craig]

this guy I used to work with LOVES dream theater..to a fault:p

I've heard a lot of their stuff in his car, wasn't my thing though.

[wondergirl9847]

www.buckinghamnicks.net (GREAT Lindsey photos here!!!!!)

burnish.net

www.fleetwoodmac-uk.com

www.followthesound.com

http://members.tripod.com/lindseysite/photos/

Good stuff here!! ;):D:nod:

[Craig]

thank you very much:D

[DownOnRodeo]

Is it possible you're saying Lindsey is overrated because people here are quick to promote him because in the eyes of the world he is undoubtedly underrated?

You say that Stevie could go on fine without Lindsey. I agree 100%. Whether he makes all her music or someone else does, what's the difference? But for a lot of us, the fact that Lindsey's albums are all about the tapestry of his music and production, as much as the songs' lyrics, makes his work all the more important and personal for us.

[EnchantedStorms]

Wellllllllll now. Don't hold back, LindseyRocks. Please, tell us how you *really* feel.


That was just rude.


I love Lindsey, and Stevie....almost equally....and yah, I agree with you, they are at their best when they're together. But someone could take your own words and throw them back at you in defense of Stevie, instead of Lindsey. Maybe, just maybe, Lindsey's songs are better on SYW because of what STEVIE added to them. And although it's not *mine*, it's all about OPINION. And not everyone has to share yours.


Sheesh.

[tommer]

Originally posted by LindseyRocks
Yes, believe it or not folks, I was just holding back before...you're a ****ing idiot. As far as I'm concerned, you're exactly the type of fan that Fleetwood Mac doesn't need - you're just another dweeb with you head stuck way up the butt of mainstream american popular culture...you're a moron, and you have no idea what you're talking about.
david
david, you were doing alot better while you were holding back, retry it.

[SmthngOfADreamr]

You're on a FM fan site, so it's only natural that people are going to gloat about and fawn over Lindsey here. And that's fine. We're not overrating him, we're just expressing our opinions. I agree with the notion that if anything, Lindsey is UNDERrated by the general public.

[anusha]

One small factoid, re: Tusk. Even though LB has more songs than anyone, the actual time is evenly split among the three. For Mirage and TITN, I think that there were fewer SN songs because she was out on the road during part of the sessions.

[CarneVaca]

[QUOTE]Originally posted by Craig
She is of course the most recognizable member and the most popular, that's no fluke. Her songs aren't the groups most successful though, Christines are.

I've said it before and I'll say it again: Popularity does not equal brilliance. Without the chiffon and the witchy aura, Stevie Nicks would have been a 1970s footnote. And I will concede she has written some great songs, but so has a lot of people who have not and will never achieve a fraction of her success. That's because success ain't about greatness. It's about image and marketing.

and I do know something you don't, that this is my opinion

Well, at least I know where you're coming from. It will be a lot easier to dismiss anything you say after that statement.

Big love apparently was meant for a solo album, I remember seeing that in the late 80s or early 90s in a muchmusic spotlight little clip..he seemed bitter but at the same time he also gave them the song.

What the Big Love episode shows is that Lindsey was willing to give Fleetwood Mac his best songs while Stevie was giving the band crappy leftovers -- When I See You Again, Welcome to the Room, Sara. Obviously she had gotten so much in the habit of giving leftovers to the band that even she admits she had to go write new songs for SYW after listening to the stuff.

Besides, has Stevie never been bitter? Just look at her attitude right before the album was released. While Lindsey was coming across as the at-peace, harmonious guy, she kept sulking. And, frankly, what this whole SYW release has shown is something I suspected for a long time: While neither of them is perfect, Lindsey is not only the better musician by far and the better songwriter, he is also the better person.

[SmthngOfADreamr]

Originally posted by CarneVaca
[QUOTE]Originally posted by Craig
She is of course the most recognizable member and the most popular, that's no fluke. Her songs aren't the groups most successful though, Christines are.

I've said it before and I'll say it again: Popularity does not equal brilliance. Without the chiffon and the witchy aura, Stevie Nicks would have been a 1970s footnote. And I will concede she has written some great songs, but so has a lot of people who have not and will never achieve a fraction of her success. That's because success ain't about greatness. It's about image and marketing.

and I do know something you don't, that this is my opinion

Well, at least I know where you're coming from. It will be a lot easier to dismiss anything you say after that statement.

Big love apparently was meant for a solo album, I remember seeing that in the late 80s or early 90s in a muchmusic spotlight little clip..he seemed bitter but at the same time he also gave them the song.

What the Big Love episode shows is that Lindsey was willing to give Fleetwood Mac his best songs while Stevie was giving the band crappy leftovers -- When I See You Again, Welcome to the Room, Sara. Obviously she had gotten so much in the habit of giving leftovers to the band that even she admits she had to go write new songs for SYW after listening to the stuff.

Besides, has Stevie never been bitter? Just look at her attitude right before the album was released. While Lindsey was coming across as the at-peace, harmonious guy, she kept sulking. And, frankly, what this whole SYW release has shown is something I suspected for a long time: While neither of them is perfect, Lindsey is not only the better musician by far and the better songwriter, he is also the better person.

I really appreciate a lot of the intelligent conversation that you add to this board, but I swear that it seems that once every few months you regress and spew out the same tired arguments time and time again that don't even hold an ounce of validity. And I hate getting involved in them, but...

To dismiss Stevie Nicks as a marketing tool is just asanine. Like many other FM fans, I didn't know a thing about the witchy persona or the chiffon when I became a fan... it was just about the music. Frankly it's really insulting that you think so little of anyone who appreciates a Afreakin' Stevie Nicks song.

And I don't think she relegated her leftovers to FM this time. I think the TISL demos that were held were done so on purpose.

And enough with who's better-Lindsey or Stevie. (That goes for everyone) It's so childish to want to pick sides like that. Everyone just like what you like, and screw anyone who says you can't. Who gives a **** who's the best songwriter or musician. Music is subjective, and it will always be.

[David]

Originally posted by DownOnRodeo
But for a lot of us, the fact that Lindsey's albums are all about the tapestry of his music and production, as much as the songs' lyrics, makes his work all the more important and personal for us. I like the way you put this, Joe. The "tapestry of music & production" is what engages me when it comes to pop songs, & those elements are so expertly crafted in the best Fleetwood Mac work that the aesthetic enjoyment we experience is as purely emotional as it is intellectual. The same holds true for film: Hitchcock's "Vertigo" is as emotionally compelling for the formal elements of its production & design as it is for the obsessed tale its words create.

[blinker12]

Besides, has Stevie never been bitter? Just look at her attitude right before the album was released. While Lindsey was coming across as the at-peace, harmonious guy, she kept sulking. And, frankly, what this whole SYW release has shown is something I suspected for a long time: While neither of them is perfect, Lindsey is not only the better musician by far and the better songwriter, he is also the better person.

Oh, come on, CarneVaca. You have raised this thread to a new level of absurdity. Lindsey's the better person? So now you're officially God, passing judgment on us mere mortals?

Both Lindsey and Stevie have acted childish in their lives, and both have readily admitted as much. As for the dispute between the two about the sequencing of SYW: Hasn't it occurred to you that Lindsey was less upset than Stevie about the outcome because he won the argument? He got his way: the edgy, political stuff opened the album, just like he wanted. I suspect if Stevie had won, he would have been as sulky as she was.

I completely agree with what SmthngOfADreamr said. I appreciate your many intelligent contributions to this board. But when you frame your wildly anti-Stevie opinions as fact _ as you have done, on an even more outrageous level than usual, in this thread _ it's just plain annoying.

[David]

Originally posted by LindseyRocks
You know, I've listened to a lot of you harsh on Lindsey, and it just blows me away [snip] Why get so worked up over it all? The "angry young man" stance & the frustration with others that makes you hurl gross insults don't add anything to the debate that isn't just cruel & sordid. I thought Buckingham's fans were above that.

[strandinthewind]

[QUOTE]Originally posted by CarneVaca
What the Big Love episode shows is that Lindsey was willing to give Fleetwood Mac his best songs while Stevie was giving the band crappy leftovers -- When I See You Again, Welcome to the Room, Sara. Obviously she had gotten so much in the habit of giving leftovers to the band that even she admits she had to go write new songs for SYW after listening to the stuff.

As I have said before and will continue to say and believe, SN had every reason to believe FM was broken up after Mirage; so saying she used all of her good stuff on WH and RAL only to leave the "crappy leftovers" for TITN is in my opinion not fair to her. Also, LB apparently was not very nice to her when she was around for the recording of TITN and then he pulled a spoiled brat move of "I'm not happy, I'm leaving" right before a tour. Having said all of that, I was not there. So, I really have no idea what went on. For all we know, she could have given many songs to FM and they chose those three. Certainly outtakes exist of other songs. So, FM chose those three songs. Moreover, she was screwed up at the time, so I cut her even more of a break if the songs were not that great even though I like them, esp. Seven Wonders.

[QUOTE]Originally posted by CarneVaca
Besides, has Stevie never been bitter? Just look at her attitude right before the album was released. While Lindsey was coming across as the at-peace, harmonious guy, she kept sulking. And, frankly, what this whole SYW release has shown is something I suspected for a long time: While neither of them is perfect, Lindsey is not only the better musician by far and the better songwriter, he is also the better person[/i].

Even Stevie says she is not a great musician - I do not think anyone is arguing that.

Moreover, I do not buy that LB came across at all as "the at-peace, harmonious guy, she kept sulking" statement. First of all, we were not there - so everything we say is speculation and on the interviews. In those interviews, LB has said SN was not happy about the sequencing of the songs and that SN has never said thank you for your help on my songs, etc. Yet, I have seen interviews where SN says LB did a good job, etc. Moreover, it just seems to me every time SN says something that seemingly detracts from the "LB's word should be law" principal that apparently, at least to me, is going on she gets slammed as being stubborn, difficult, etc. Yet, LB appears to be able to say whatever he wants and not receive the same treatment and be perceived as a victim. I think SN is the far better person in the context of this record for even agreeing to make this record and to at the same time "throw LB a bone," which he apparently needed to help get his solo stuff released by the record company, which was apparently not going to happen unless she came on board with FM. I do not think from a solely commercial point of view that Warner/Reprise would released this record without either SN or CM being on board because right or wrong and not in anyway saying they are not good, LB's songs historically do not sell well which is just about all the label cares about. Again right or wrong, that is just the way it is and LB obviously cares about this and thinks this way otherwise he would not have bent under Warner/Reprise's pressure and released his stuff over the net or bought out his contract with Warner/Reprise (if he indeed has one) and/or found another label. Finally, I think if you look at the imperfect actions of these two in the past (and there are many public ones on both sides), LB has acted more like the spoiled brat in my opinion. Again, he left before a worldwide tour in 1987 that he had committed to doing because he "was not happy." That could be the largest temper tantrum I have ever seen. I mean when you are an adult and have people's jobs (roadies, secretaries, executives, etc.) depending on you and what you have committed to do and then you say, I just can't do what I am committed to do because I do not feel like it, you are acting like a spoiled brat and welcome any hard feelings thrown your way. Believe me, there are days when I cannot stand to go to work and be around some of the people in my office, but, as an adult who has committed to doing this job, I go because if I do not people that depend on my work will be punished for my capriciousness. I notice that SN is still on board even though she allegedly was so unhappy with this record.

[strandinthewind]

Originally posted by blinker12
Oh, come on,Hasn't it occurred to you that Lindsey was less upset than Stevie about the outcome because he won the argument? He got his way: the edgy, political stuff opened the album, just like he wanted. I suspect if Stevie had won, he would have been as sulky as she was.

No, he would have just thrown a temper tantrum a la TITN and left again :laugh: :laugh:

[CarneVaca]

Strand, methinks you're trying to rewrite history here.

--Lindsey did not commit to going on the road for Tango. He agreed to do the album and shelve his solo project because Mick needed money. When they pressured him to tour, he just didn't want to because there was too much acrimony in the band.

--I've read the same articles you have, I'm sure. But look at Lindsey's demeanor vs. Stevie's in the interviews just before SYW was released. The words they used and my own perception of their attitudes tells me Stevie was pissed and Lindsey was trying to make the best of a tense situation. If you want to interpret her perma-scowl and his affable attitude in a way that somehow means she being the bigger person in this situation, by all means. And let's not forget she was bitching about the track sequence while sitting her ass in Hawaii while Lindsey was still slaving away in the studio.

--Lindsey would have released GOS one way or the other if he had wanted to. In one of the more recent interviews, he said the new guard at Warners liked his stuff but it had become a moot point because the Fleetwood Mac project was well underway. You imply that somehow Stevie saved him from oblivion by agreeing to do SYW. How silly. She would have never been in Fleetwood Mac without him. She would have been a footnote in the history of pop music.

As for everyone else who is reacting to my "Lindsey is the better person" comment, I stand by that. Disagree all you want, but that's how I feel.

[strandinthewind]

Originally posted by CarneVaca
And let's not forget she was bitching about the track sequence while sitting her ass in Hawaii while Lindsey was still slaving away in the studio.

LOL - do you really think LB would have let SN do that (mix and sequence the record)!!!! I think he sent her to Hawaii to get rid of her :laugh: :laugh:

I also think Mick was in Hawaii, which sort of surprises me because he comes across as a person reluctant to give up control.

Interestingly, we are looking at this from a hindsight perspective. It could very well be that when SN (and possibly others) left for Hawaii the double record deal was still on and the sequencing for that had already been agreed to and that is what LB was working on. Then, while they are in Hawaii, the double CD deal is nixed ( :laugh: ) and a new sequence needs to be determined. Oh to have been a fly on the wall so we could know the true story!!!!!

Also, I seem to remember LB initally saying he would tour for TITN and then backing out right before the tour started. I support this by referring interviews then and now that indicate some if not all of the dates had already been booked for the tour. However, even if he did not formally commit, it was still a lousy and immature thing to do as touring certainly was implied when they cut a new record, esp. if the tour had already been booked. Shame on him for that.

Also, I totally think that if SN had not come on board, the executives at Warner/Reprise and the general public would have not given this CD the attention it got. So, in that aspect, SN did save LB. Again, right or wrong, she sells, he does not and record companies do not throw money at what does not sell. I go back to my original thought which was if LB wanted to release these songs when the original GOS was completed he could have even if it meant going to another label. But, he did not. Instead, he waited years for SN to come in on this and now it is selling with heavy promotion from the label. Why, because she sells.

Also, I think a large part of why she is scowling is because her frined had died of an overdose and she had been to the funeral that day. I think the sequencing stuff went down months before that.

Finally, I think it is unfair to look at it solely from the context of LB made sure SN was in FM. That certainly is true, but without SN can you really say LB or FM would ever have gotten the attention they got. I cannot. Also, remember Stevie had a solo record contract prior to joining FM; her parents bought her out of it. I do not remember with whom and it may have been prior to Buckingham Nicks. So, I think this shows she was on her way, but went with LB instead.

[DrummerDeanna]

UGh....I hate when people say certain artists are under or over rated....it's SO subjective....but I guess that the nature of the opinion lol....because I'm gonna be a hypocrite and say that I do feel that Lindsey is underrated....at least in the music industry as a whole....he's truly talented...and I do think his ideas and things are quite innovative and interesting...and brilliant....but I also thing the music industry seems to be going south..."as we celebrate mediocrity"-Tom Petty.....and uh oh...yeah...I've lost my train of thought....so anyway....I love the whole band, I don't think any of them are overrated....not even Mick....he IS a good drummer....and he just rocks out!

[Les]

Again, he left before a worldwide tour in 1987 that he had committed to doing because he "was not happy." That could be the largest temper tantrum I have ever seen. I mean when you are an adult and have people's jobs (roadies, secretaries, executives, etc.) depending on you and what you have committed to do and then you say, I just can't do what I am committed to do because I do not feel like it, you are acting like a spoiled brat and welcome any hard feelings thrown your way.

Actually, I believe the words he used were "physical and emotional survival move." That says he was a lot more than simply "not happy." He's been quoted as saying that he even went to see a psychotherapist at the time that the band was trying to get him to tour for Tango because he was so torn up about what decision he should make.

You're ready to cut Stevie slack for her periods in the past when she was not at her best. Maybe some slack could be cut for Lindsey as well? You're ready to accept that she's had vulnerable moments in the past when she needed some kind of additional support from her bandmates and didn't get it. Maybe you can see where Lindsey needed that as well, and didn't get it? In more recent years, even Mick has begun to understand Lindsey's departure as far more than wanting to be solo, but something along the lines of Lindsey having reached a burnout point from which he could not return without time away from the band. Mick has even begun to show a willingness in recent years to accept some responsibility for Lindsey having reached that point because of his own behavior back then.

Was it irresponsible for Lindsey not to do the tour? I don't know what that means, actually. How do you balance professional goals of your mates with your personal health? He shouldered immense responsibility for getting the album made. There would have been no reason to tour in the first place if the album never came to be. It gave the band a huge success and a position of power to begin the tour. To Lindsey's way of thinking, he pulled out at a time where Rick Vito and Billy Burnette could jump into the live shows to support a popular album, and the new configuration could get accustomed to each other so that they'd be a "real band" by the time that incarnation got around to going back into the studio. He saw it as a good place to jump off, for the band, and to save himself. Was he wrong?

To reduce Lindsey's departure in 1987 to nothing more than a mere temper tantrum is, I think, inaccurate and somewhat insensitive to Lindsey's physical, emotional and mental health. Just my opinion.

As for overrated and underrated...too much credit, not enough credit.... You'll find DJs, writers, fans throughout the years who will say, "well, so-and-so may have contributed a lot, but so-and-so IS Fleetwood Mac." Fill in the name of Stevie, Christine, Lindsey, Peter, etc., because it's been said about all of them. Beauty is in the eye of the beholder. ;)

[gypsysara]

While its interesting to read all of these posts...

I have to say, Im not a huge Lindsey fan. However, he turned my head on this album. I *love* Miranda, Red Rover, WTWCT, Steal Your Heart Away and even Peacekeeper is growing. Of course, where Come would appeal to some - it turns me way off. But, to each his own.

Opinions vary, but listening to them all and keeping an open mind is *always* good!

[CarneVaca]

Originally posted by thewhitewingedd
Wait a minuten....Wasn't that you who was at that Softball game for the washed up rock stars????You were bringing Lindsey some water...

:laugh: :laugh: :laugh:

Yeah, you'd be a lot funnier if you could spell a word or two. What the hell are you even talking about?

And you know for a fact that Lindsey hit anybody? If I recall correctly, Stevie in recent years has admitted that she jumped on him. I don't know about you, but if someone goes for my throat, I might just hit back. And this is coming from a pacifist.

Strand, your characterization of what went on at the time of Lindsey's departure in 1987 is incredibly biased, and therefore not worth debating anymore. Suffice it to say that Lindsey has NEVER hit the creative low points that Stevie has. As much as I would have liked him to release more albums, if he'd released crap like Other Side of the Mirror and Street Angel, I would have stopped paying attention to him. As I did to her.

[strandinthewind]

Originally posted by Les
To reduce Lindsey's departure in 1987 to nothing more than a mere temper tantrum is, I think, inaccurate and somewhat insensitive to Lindsey's physical, emotional and mental health. Just my opinion.

Touche' :laugh: but I still think he should have stuck it out for the tour because I think that touring was implied if not agreed to from the beginning. But, that as they say is history!!!!

[gypsysara]

Originally posted by CarneVaca
And you know for a fact that Lindsey hit anybody? If I recall correctly, Stevie in recent years has admitted that she jumped on him.

I believe I read the same, that Lindsey had hit Stevie during the 1987 World Tour fallout. I think it was in a book. So while perhaps the opinion may have been wrong - I think maybe Strand was going off of what they knew (regardless if its right or wrong). Do you have to be so rude? i.e. the speylling commeynt.

[gypsysara]

Hey no harm, no foul to me. Just hope maybe Carne was kidding... it looked kinda rude, thats all.

[CarneVaca]

Originally posted by gypsysara
I believe I read the same, that Lindsey had hit Stevie during the 1987 World Tour fallout. I think it was in a book. So while perhaps the opinion may have been wrong - I think maybe Strand was going off of what they knew (regardless if its right or wrong). Do you have to be so rude? i.e. the speylling commeynt.

Gypsy, even Mick Fleetwood, who wrote the book to which you're referring, has disowned a lot of the stuff he wrote. He purposely made the book inflammatory with an eye to making sales. Again, Stevie has said in recent years that she attacked Lindsey. If he hit her, which would be wrong without a doubt, it appears that he was provoked. Hitting people is not cool. But that applies to both, don't you think?

And to answer your question, no, I don't have to be rude. But just how do you handle nonsensical statements about feeding water to rock stars in events that never took place?

Whitewingedd, I'm really not concerned about whether what I posted hurt your feelings. You keep trying to be funny, but it ain't working.

[FiercestCalmSea]

Yeah, we can do that "everybody has thier own opinion" thing, but quite frankly, Craig, you're a moron, and you have no idea what you're talking about.



Uh,no LindseyRocks,YOU are the moron for not being able to handle an opinion you don't agree with.Grow up or walk your @ss back to Preschool.

[Cour]

As for the dispute between the two about the sequencing of SYW: Hasn't it occurred to you that Lindsey was less upset than Stevie about the outcome because he won the argument? He got his way: the edgy, political stuff opened the album, just like he wanted. I suspect if Stevie had won, he would have been as sulky as she was.


Who said he won?

Who said he wanted "edgy political stuff" opening the album? WTWCT is about the music business and the track sequencing was put to bed almost 3 months ago.

How do you know what sequencing Stevie wanted and what compromises were made?

Why is anyone attributing Stevie's somber mood to her being upset over the sequencing of the album? These people have lives outside of FM and their careers and IF there is something going on with Stevie, chances are more likely that it is something we don't know about. We DON'T know everything about their lives or what happens within FM no matter how many articles or interviews we see.

[SmthngOfADreamr]

How cute are we all for getting so emotionally involved with this band and its individual members?!? Seriously, do fans of other groups have as many fights as we do about this kind of BS? Even though sometimes it's annoying, I love it, I think it's so adorable, and it really shows how adament we all in demonstrating our affection. :D

But, I think a shrink would have a blast with our little group. We do have some serious codependency issues... :laugh:

Now everybody kiss and make up. :xoxo:

[FiercestCalmSea]

And you know for a fact that Lindsey hit anybody? If I recall correctly, Stevie in recent years has admitted that she jumped on him.



What in the hell does this have to do with whether or not he is overrated?? Uh..let's see...nothing...Both Stevie and Linds were spoiled rotten rock stars who have had not so nice moments..but Linds is still an AWESOME guitarist and Stevie is still and AWESOME singer/songwriter...so don't drag their personal behavior(from 16 years ago even) into the mix.

[SmthngOfADreamr]

Originally posted by Cour

Why is anyone attributing Stevie's somber mood to her being upset over the sequencing of the album?

Lindsey said that this is one of the things that Stevie was upset about. I forget what interview it was. I think he pretty much implied that he won and she lost.

[BlueGrass]

I think your overrated.

Holla Up

[CarneVaca]

Originally posted by FiercestCalmSea
What in the hell does this have to do with whether or not he is overrated??

I agree. I was merely responding. As apparently you were above.

[Cour]

Originally posted by SmthngOfADreamr
Lindsey said that this is one of the things that Stevie was upset about. I forget what interview it was. I think he pretty much implied that he won and she lost.


I've read all of the articles here and Burnish.net has just about every single article and radio and tv interview. Perhaps you can give us the exact quote where you think Lindsey "pretty much implied that he won and she lost". I've read that there were problems and disagreements cutting the album back from 2 discs and Stevie was unhappy with the sequencing, period. I did not read or hear any specifics as to what sequencing was prefered by which band member and how the final sequencing was finalized and what specific compromises were made. I did not read anywhere that Stevie lost and Lindsey won.

Again, the final sequencing took place almost 3 months ago and since we haven't seen any video of Stevie during that time period, why would we think that's the cause for her somber mood 3 months later. We've also seen video footage and read interviews that took place after the sequencing where Stevie says she's happy with the cd, etc.

[strandinthewind]

Originally posted by CarneVaca
Strand, your characterization of what went on at the time of Lindsey's departure in 1987 is incredibly biased, and therefore not worth debating anymore. Suffice it to say that Lindsey has NEVER hit the creative low points that Stevie has. As much as I would have liked him to release more albums, if he'd released crap like Other Side of the Mirror and Street Angel, I would have stopped paying attention to him. As I did to her.

If you can point out any blatant bias in what I have said, then so be it. I do not however see any blatant bias. I do, however, want to say, that I think all five behaved badly during TITN, but I think backing out of an already booked tour was a horrible thing to do even considering the slack he should be cut for his injured mood, etc. But, hey - people may differ on this and say SN's behavior was "worse" because she breezed in at the end still shaking from rehab and then raised a stink about not being on the songs on the record, etc. Again, I think that is minor compared to costing many people their jobs by backing out of what was already booked.

Also, I never said anything about anyone's creative lows. Certainly people have perceived them all as having had them. I just said LB needed FM, which means SN. I think SN was great for doing it, when she clearly did not have to, to get LB's songs released and also to have her songs released. Don't forget she benefits as well from the FM name, although not as much sales wise as LB. Moreover, although LB says he may have been able to get the label to release the GOS songs, I think the label was much nicer to him once they were financially salivating at the prospect of FM as opposed to either a LB or SN solo record.


Again, if you can point out the obvious you mention, then so be it.

[gypsysara]

Originally posted by CarneVaca
But just how do you handle nonsensical statements about feeding water to rock stars in events that never took place?


Well not by throwing pot-shots at their posting styles, thats all I was trying to say. Emotions are quite hot in here and sometimes its better to defuse than egnite.

I agree with SomethingofADreamer ~ our devotions obviously intense, LOL!

[Les]

I do, however, want to say, that I think all five behaved badly during TITN, but I think backing out of an already booked tour was a horrible thing to do even considering the slack he should be cut for his injured mood, etc. But, hey - people may differ on this and say SN's behavior was "worse" because she breezed in at the end still shaking from rehab and then raised a stink about not being on the songs on the record, etc. Again, I think that is minor compared to costing many people their jobs by backing out of what was already booked.

Hehe. No offense Strand, but your bias is pretty thoroughly visible in this characterization alone. ;) But hey, it's your opinion and you're entitled to it.

[strandinthewind]

Originally posted by Les
Hehe. No offense Strand, but your bias is pretty thoroughly visible in this characterization alone. ;)

I still do not see it. I do see that I am making an opinion based on the facts as I know them. But, if others see that as bias, I stand down, hat in hand, and humble pie in my mouth, etc. :laugh: :laugh:

[CarneVaca]

Originally posted by gypsysara
Well not by throwing pot-shots at their posting styles, thats all I was trying to say.

Ok, you've told me what you would not do. But how would you respond to this:

Wait a minute....Wasn't that you who was at that Softball game for the washed up rock stars????You were bringing Lindsey some water...

Just curious.

[CarneVaca]

Recognizing your own biases is always a tough thing. I, however, had no problem admitting that I much prefer Lindsey to Stevie. Afer, all he is the better person. ;)

By the way, I was unaware that Lindsey had cost so many people their jobs.

Well, then, I'm glad he's back and touring cuz God knows our economy needs a shot in the arm.

[gypsysara]

Originally posted by CarneVaca
Ok, you've told me what you would not do. But how would you respond to this:

Wait a minute....Wasn't that you who was at that Softball game for the washed up rock stars????You were bringing Lindsey some water...

Just curious.

Personally I would try to rise above pettiness like that, but that's just me as I said.

[Les]

Originally posted by strandinthewind
I still do not see it. I do see that I am making an opinion based on the facts as I know them. But, if others see that as bias, I stand down, hat in hand, and humble pie in my mouth, etc. :laugh: :laugh:

Hehe. It tends to come in the form of --

Lindsey's mere "injured mood" vs. Stevie's "shaking from rehab"

Stevie didn't actually go directly to the Tango sessions after rehab. There was the detour to go on the road with Tom Petty for a while sandwiched in between.

Additionally, the characterization that Lindsey's actions endangered jobs, but Stevie's didn't kind of puzzles me. If everyone put Stevie's level of time into the Tango album, where would that have left the album and those jobs? It's all in how you choose to be sympathetic to the plights of one and not the other. We all do it. I do it too. ;)

As it is, the album got made despite Stevie's almost total absence and the tour got done despite Lindsey's total absence. So it's pretty much ancient history, no?

[CarneVaca]

Originally posted by gypsysara
Personally I would try to rise above pettiness like that, but that's just me as I said.

That still doesn't answer the question, does it? You're merely passing judgment.

But... never mind.

[strandinthewind]

I agree Les - ancient history!!!

You know I was thinking about this as we were all posting - no wonder people are still somewhat caught up in all of FM's drama (esp La Nicks and LB) - we are still arguing almost 15 years after the fact and we were not even there and do not even know these people - but boy if we did . . . . LOL :laugh: :laugh:

P.S. - the costing of people's jobs statement was referring to the the jobs that would have been lost if FM had to cancel their tour because of LB's sudden departure. That could have been over 100 jobs (roadies, managers, tech crew, wardrobe people, truck drivers, etc.). Interestingly, LB's departure created two more jobs (Billy and Rick) or at least one more if you discount LB's loss of one of those jobs. So, maybe my point is moot when considered from this point of view. :laugh:

[blinker12]

That still doesn't answer the question, does it? You're merely passing judgment. But... never mind.

Just curious _ is this some kind of veiled response to my posting of earlier today, in which I said you were passing judgment? I notice you never responded to it directly.

[CarneVaca]

Originally posted by blinker12
Just curious _ is this some kind of veiled response to my posting of earlier today, in which I said you were passing judgment? I notice you never responded to it directly.

Definitely not. I skimmed over your post and decided it needed no response. When I have something to say to you, I will. Directly. You may accuse me of a lot of things here, but "veiled responses" isn't one of them.

[Miranda]

Originally posted by strandinthewind
I agree Les - ancient history!!!

You know I was thinking about this as we were all posting - no wonder people are still somewhat caught up in all of FM's drama (esp La Nicks and LB) - we are still arguing almost 15 years after the fact and we were not even there and do not even know these people - but boy if we did . . . . LOL :laugh: :laugh:

:laugh: :laugh: :laugh: :laugh:

Sure we know them...those of us who've been around long enough. I just had to give my psychological profile of everyone in the "I confess" thread.

I am soooo bad!

[gldstwmn]

HAVE YOU EVER SEEN THE MAN LIVE? Believe me, he can friggin' play. I for one am mesmerized by his playing. It's so fun to watch. Can't wait to hear Come live. The guy NEVER took a guitar lesson in his life and has been playing since he was 8. That's talent! Some players are manufactured, LB is not. In fact, I have often considered Lindsey to be one of the most underrated guitarists of our time. I think it's due in part to the fact that he has had so very few live performances in the last 20 years. There in nothing unimpressive about this guy.

[gldstwmn]

Originally posted by SmthngOfADreamr

To dismiss Stevie Nicks as a marketing tool is just asanine.



That's right. Stevie was doing image and marketing before there ever was image and marketing. She was the whole package. Can you name any other woman who had a hugely succesful solo career and maintained her success in a group as well? She is no footnote, nor will she ever be. She was an innovator for the likes of many other women in the business.

[Johnny Stew]

You know what's funny? I hadn't even read a single post in this thread, when CarneVaca and I got into our little debate in another thread about what I consider to be double-standards.
And then I visit this one, and there they are again... in all their glory.

I think the thing that Stevie Fans get most upset about in regards to some Lindsey Fans (certainly not all), is that Stevie does seem to get hung up by her heels for things that Lindsey is forgiven for, and other things he's even lauded for.
But I guess that goes both ways at times.

I see a lot of wild statements in this thread... some I agree with, some I disagree with, and some that I can't even figure out the impetus behind.

One inaccuracy that I see a lot of in various thread at various times, is that Stevie's only contributions to 'Tango In The Night,' came during the very last few weeks of recording.
I have a radio interview she did with Jim Ladd, directly after the release of 'Rock A Little,' and she mentions that Fleetwood Mac was recording again, that she was just recently with them, and gave them some of her songs to work on while she'd be away on tour.
After the 'RAL' tour got under way, and her addictions came to a head, and she went off to rehab, we know that her involvement with the FM album then became very minimal.
But to state unequivocally that her only involvement was at the end of the album, is untrue.

I also think it's innacurate to state that Stevie gave the band her "leftovers."
Stevie has always maintained (and there is a lot of evidence to back her up), that Fleetwood Mac has first dibs on her songs, and anything else is then used for her solo albums (unless, of course, there is no Fleetwood Mac album on the horizon).
That her 'Tango' songs are considered less than stellar, is a matter of opinion, and I'm sure Stevie felt very strongly about those songs.
And, as it's been pointed out, obviously the band chose those songs for a reason. They certainly had tons of other songs they could have done, if they didn't like them.
But it's true that she didn't devote as much time to the Fleetwood Mac project as she should have.
It's also true that some dates were booked for the 1987 tour BEFORE Lindsey decided to quit at the eleventh hour.

Both clearly had a lot of turmoil in their lives at this point in time, and both did various things... with reasons only known to them... which leave the rest of scratching our heads.

As for who's the better person... well, that one is simply impossible to answer, and all comes down to which of the two you lean most towards.

Lindsey's former girlfriend, Cherri Caspari, appeared on the Phil Donohue Show to discuss his alleged violent treatment towards her, and Mick recounted that apparently violent altercation between Lindsey and Stevie, when L.B. announced he was quitting the band. Mick has also recounted... as has Christine... Lindsey kicking Stevie on stage, and tripping her backstage.
However, these episodes are quickly glossed over by the fans (some going so far as to say Stevie "probably deserved it").

Meanwhile, we know that Stevie has had at least one abortion (and three more are alleged), and during the "Klonopin Years," she was very difficult, demanding, and fired a lot of people (by her own admission).

Stevie *has* done a lot of good over the years though... including giving the royalties for "Beautiful Child" to UNICEF, donating a lot of money to the City of Hope and to Lukemia research, writing letters and sending CDs to the troops in Desert Storm and those in the current war in Iraq, and performing many benefit shows over the years for various charities, as well as conducting the annual Stevie Nicks And Friends benefits for the American Heart Institute (which Lindsey has also participated in).
It has also been stated by various sources (including the book, 'Everything You Ever Wanted To Know About Stevie Nicks') that she has signed song royalties over to friends who have had money troubles, and have let various people share her home, when they've needed a place to live.

So, all in all, Stevie sounds like a pretty damn good person to me, and if asked, I would be inclined to say that she is the "better" person, but I admit that I'm not as familiar with any philanthropic deeds Lindsey may have done.

Both clearly have made mistakes, and are far from perfect... but whose "side" you take, again depends on which you tend to like more.

[gypsysara]

Well said Johnny!

Carne, no offense but I was just telling you how I was - straight up - and how Id react - as you asked, and it wasnt enough. So I give up! Sorry to offend you.

[Les]

It was Carol Ann Harris and it was on Geraldo. ;)

I think the thing that Stevie Fans get most upset about in regards to some Lindsey Fans (certainly not all), is that Stevie does seem to get hung up by her heels for things that Lindsey is forgiven for, and other things he's even lauded for. But I guess that goes both ways at times.

Well, that's just it, isn't it? Stevie-leaning fans are more sensitive to the criticisms and slights leveled at her and are thus more aware of them. When you're more aware of them and "feel" them more deeply, the tendency then is to feel that those slights are more harsh and more numerous than any such slights directed at Lindsey (or anyone else).

You can be assured that this feeling works the same for Lindsey-leaning fans.

The "glossing over" is apparent on both sides. The "they deserved it" attitude is apparent on both sides. The empathy or sympathy or apathy toward the plights of one vs. the other is apparent on both sides.

My question is - why are there sides? Who is the better person? Who cares! ;) While we may feel like we know these people, what we know of them through rumor and through interviews is only a fraction of who they are. I couldn't begin to judge, nor do I want to.

[dissention]

Originally posted by Johnny Stew
One inaccuracy that I see a lot of in various thread at various times, is that Stevie's only contributions to 'Tango In The Night,' came during the very last few weeks of recording.
I have a radio interview she did with Jim Ladd, directly after the release of 'Rock A Little,' and she mentions that Fleetwood Mac was recording again, that she was just recently with them, and gave them some of her songs to work on while she'd be away on tour.
After the 'RAL' tour got under way, and her addictions came to a head, and she went off to rehab, we know that her involvement with the FM album then became very minimal.
But to state unequivocally that her only involvement was at the end of the album, is untrue.


I have that interview on disc, too. However, you pretty much gave a good example of how she only worked with FM a little towards the end: giving someone your songs to work on the music for while you are out on tour does not count as time being spent working on the album. You're passing your work off to someone else. Then, after all the rehab and the tour, you go into the studio to sing the songs. Seven Wonders was sung once. Who knows how many times the others were sung. Then, she barely put any backing vocals on. LB has said that she "phoned-in" many of her parts, too. So, I don't think it's a misconception at all: she barely participated.

And... I like Stevie better than Lindsey but he is sooooooooooooo UNDERrated!!!!!!!!!!!!

[Johnny Stew]

Originally posted by Les
It was Carol Ann Harris and it was on Geraldo. ;)Oops! Where's that blushing smiley when I need it? :eek:
Thanks for correcting the error, Les. Mistakes like that are how "songs are written, stories are told, rumours are started." *hehehe* :)
Originally posted by Les
Well, that's just it, isn't it? Stevie-leaning fans are more sensitive to the criticisms and slights leveled at her and are thus more aware of them.

You can be assured that this works the same in the reverse direction.

The "glossing over" is apparent on both sides.

My question is - why are there sides? Who is the better person? Who cares! ;) While we may feel like we know these people, what we know of them through rumor and through interviews is only a fraction of who they are. I couldn't begin to judge, nor do I want to. You're very, VERY right, Les... and despite my perceived role as a "Stevie defender," I think I've often pointed out that I don't think she's a saint, nor would I want her to be.
The same goes for Lindsey.
I'm fascinated by human nature and all of our foibles, but if I honestly thought Lindsey was a creep without any redeeming qualities, I probably wouldn't give his music the time of day.

While it may not seem that way, I actually defend and praise Lindsey a lot outside of The Ledge, to those who quickly write off his talents or just him in general.

I just tend to do that more for Stevie here on The Ledge, because her talents and importance to Fleetwood Mac seem to be dismissed so often here in favor of Lindsey.
Just as it irks many people to no end that Stevie is given so much credit by the fans and the critics for the success of Fleetwood Mac, it annoys many people when Lindsey is portrayed as the only one of the two with any talent (or has any talent left).

His every move is defended by the same people who ridicule Stevie's fans for that very behaviour... and no, Carne, I swear I'm not pointing a finger at you, or anyone in particular. :) :) :)

But this is where the "who's over-rated? who's under-rated? are either of them really under-rated OR over-rated?" questions come up, and where those pesky double-standards (on BOTH sides) seem to creep in.

Both are very integral to the success of Fleetwood Mac, in their own ways... and I venture to guess that if neither had ever been in the same band together, no one on Earth would ever think to compare the two.

For the record, I too feel that Lindsey is under-rated for the most part... but I think Stevie is too, in many aspects.

[Johnny Stew]

Originally posted by dissention
Seven Wonders was sung once. Who knows how many times the others were sung. Then, she barely put any backing vocals on. LB has said that she "phoned-in" many of her parts, too. So, I don't think it's a misconception at all: she barely participated.I have a couple outtakes of "Seven Wonders" and "Welcome To The Room... Sara" which contain alternate vocal takes from Stevie.
These are not demos, by the way.

I have a copy of "When I See You Again" which has some alternate vocals as well.

But I know the point you're trying to make, and I agree that Stevie barely participating on 'Tango' is not a misconception at all... I just wanted to clear up the idea that she had nothing to do with it until practically the end.

I do also know that she has said that she and FM sent tapes back and forth at some point during the 'RAL' tour, which she would add vocals to... which could be the basis of the "phoned it in" comment.
While it's not an ideal way to participate on an album or song, it's not the first time it's happened.
I know many duets over the years were actually recorded with the singers not even having met.

Again, I'm not trying to defend Stevie here... but I do think the fact that she tried at all, says alot about her devotion to Fleetwood Mac.
But then the fact that Lindsey side-lined his solo project also says a lot about his devotion to Fleetwood Mac.

Maybe she felt guilty in 1987 that she didn't give as much time to Fleetwood Mac as she perhaps should have for 'Tango,' and was hoping the tour would help correct that. I can't even begin to imagine the thought-processes and insecurities of someone who just quit cocaine after a decade of addiction.
So when Lindsey opted to not tour, Stevie was devestated. In the days and hours before Rick and Billy were hired, she may have even feared that Fleetwood Mac was dead, and may have wondered how much of that was her fault.

Which is where these particular debates can go around and around for the rest of eternity.

[dissention]

Originally posted by Johnny Stew
I have a couple outtakes of "Seven Wonders" and "Welcome To The Room... Sara" which contain alternate vocal takes from Stevie.
These are not demos, by the way.


The WTTR...S that is in circulation is a demo; there's no way that it could be an outtake. Unless you have one that is different than the one in circulation. :) I have the outtake to Seven Wonders and it's the same vocal until the end, where the album version ends, this one goes on for a while longer.

What I meant was that this song was cut in one night; as quoted by Stevie. She sang it, fudged up the lyrics, tried again that same night, and kept the fudged up version because it was the best vocal.

I do agree with you, though, the Lindsey vs. Stevie thing is incredibly asinine. :laugh:

[GardenStateGirlie]

Originally posted by dissention

I do agree with you, though, the Lindsey vs. Stevie thing is incredibly asinine. :laugh:

Agreed. It's like, apart from each other, they're superb and together, they're phenomenal....either way, you can't loose. Why argue and make it into a Lindsey vs Stevie thing? Regardless of who you like better, we all obviously like one or the other or both. If not, I guess we wouldn't have all just purchased Say You Will, making it release at #3 on the Billboard charts, nor would we all be speaking here on the Fleetwood Mac portion of The Ledge. Let's just enjoy all this while we have it because who knows how long it will all last :shrug:

[David]

Originally posted by Johnny Stew
I have a radio interview she did with Jim Ladd, directly after the release of 'Rock A Little,' and she mentions that Fleetwood Mac was recording again, that she was just recently with them, and gave them some of her songs to work on while she'd be away on tour. Is this the Jim Ladd Innerview from 1986 or the on-air phone call he made to Stevie in Scottsdale just a few days before "Rock a Little" was released in 1985?

[CarneVaca]

On the issue of violence, I will say this: If Lindsey was slapping his girlfriends around, that's not cool. I'm not going to sit here and defend that.

On the issue of violence in Fleetwood Mac, Mick himself has dismissed the episode he described in his book as exaggerated. I believe that's the word he used. And Stevie has also said she attacked Lindsey. I also read in Rolling Stone some years ago that Christine slapped Lindsey once.

This all indicates to me that there was an atmosphere in the band that was somewhat permissive of slapping each other around. So while we may make judgments of whether that's cool or not, let's not just point the finger at one person. There are enough accounts by band members themselves that it wasn't just Lindsey who was slapping others around.

These Stevie vs. Lindsey discussions indeed get out of hand, but that doesn't change my position that Lindsey is the better person. :wavey:

[Johnny Stew]

Originally posted by dissention
The WTTR...S that is in circulation is a demo; there's no way that it could be an outtake. Unless you have one that is different than the one in circulation. :) I have the outtake to Seven Wonders and it's the same vocal until the end, where the album version ends, this one goes on for a while longer.

What I meant was that this song was cut in one night; as quoted by Stevie. She sang it, fudged up the lyrics, tried again that same night, and kept the fudged up version because it was the best vocal.Ahh, I get what you're saying.... yes, the vocal take on the album version *is* the first take. So you're definitely right. I thought you meant that particular vocal was the one and only take.
The outtake I have definitely has some different vocals throughout the song (especially noticeable in the first verse), and additional ad-libbing at the end.

Now, the version of "Welcome To The Room... Sara," that I have, could be a solo demo/outtake... there's a full-band backing her, but it's possible that it isn't Fleetwood Mac (much like the circulating outtake of "What Has Rock And Roll Ever Done For You" is not FM).

[Johnny Stew]

Originally posted by David
Is this the Jim Ladd Innerview from 1986 or the on-air phone call he made to Stevie in Scottsdale just a few days before "Rock a Little" was released in 1985? I have both interviews (or "Innerviews," if you will!) on the same cassette, so without grabbing the tape and listening to it, I can't say with certainty which segment it's from.

In my mind they sort of run together since they're on the same cassette.

[wondergirl9847]

I leave you kids alone for 5 minutes and I come home to THIS!! LMAO!! GEEZ!! It's the whole Lindsey vs. Stevie thing again. :rolleyes: I do love reading the insults and VERY HEATED debates on it tho..lol...I mean, do we HONESTLY believe we are gonna change minds as to who's more talented, better, etc? Nope.

LINDSEY RULES!!

STEVIE ROCKS!!

FLEETWOOD MAC IS BACK!!

ROCK ON PEEPS!

:D:D:D

[Craig]

Originally posted by LindseyRocks


Craig, you're a ****ing idiot. As far as I'm concerned, you're exactly the type of fan that Fleetwood Mac doesn't need - you're just another dweeb with you head stuck way up the butt of mainstream american popular culture. In fact, people like you are the reason they don't play some of the cooler stuff on tour - why they stay stuck in the same old crap that they've always done. ooops, I suspect I went way over the top here:O. Actually, it's quite funny to me, because I don't really care if I get kicked off of this site or not.


Er, you might want to calm down, how far some people go...I am just as much capable as being into the deep stuff(which Stevie is far more than Lindsey I find) than you may think. As I said, I think Kate bush far outshines anyone as far as "deeply thought out music goes" and I love her. What I really don't get is why you seem to think that a long guitar solo or an effect on a guitar solo where you move the speaker volume from left to right makes his music THAT much better than Stevies.

You are the sort of person who seems to like the wrapping of the package rather than what's inside. How superficial is your musical taste that anything pretentious is supposedly better than something that's not?

I'd MUCH prefer to be taken to a place lyrically personally.


The ironic thing is that I was just about to issue a comment about the best songs on SYW being Stevie's songs, but ONLY because of what LINDSEY did to them (don't get me wrong folks, I'm a Lindsey fan in the hardcore way, but the true chemistry happens when Lindsey and Stevie are going at it TOGETHER).
You really have a chip on your shoulder about Stevie don't you? You are the sort of person who thinks that because stevie is popular that she must be lightweight, well I think that's ridiculous, it's not what she wears, it's her songs, they are imo and a lot of other peoples, better than Lindseys.


LINDSEY ROCKS - plain and simple - without him, the Fleetwood Mac sound would've never existed. Anybody who doesn't recognize this is belongs in the "I'm just another American Dumb-Ass who swallows whatever the media feeds me" catagory.

But I know a few of you "get it"...:)

david

You don't "get it" I was born in england and I live in canada, don't act like it's about dumb americans either because Lindsey is American just as much as Stevie..talk about a high level of ignorance.

[Craig]

this thread has sort of gotten out of control, I won't read all the middle stuff(yet) but I will say that this really was more about my thinking Lindsey was overrated more than a VS battle, not sure why it turned out that way..maybe with a little goading here and there.

Anyway, I am a HUGE madonna fan and it seems that she gets the whole "you're so big because of your image" I thought it was just her but even Stevie gets it from Lindsey fans?
HOW RIDICULOUSLY INSULTING!

I'm tired of it, it seems that the women are always the first to be dismissed in their careers.

They're judged on their looks and image far more than men and it's a shame that even Fleetwood Mac fans do the same.

A female singer who is successful is thought to be so because of their looks or gimicks or self promotion and they're always the ones who aren't allowed to age gracefully, it's completely ridiculous.

[Craig]

Originally posted by BlueGrass
I think your overrated.

Holla Up

Apparently you think proper use of the word your/you're is overrated too.

:wavey:

[SeventhWonder]

This thread is getting a little hostile, eh?

Although I am admittedly more of a Stevie fan, I still think that LB is great. In fact I think he is very underrated in the music industry. However I think it's ridiculous to speculate on "who's the better person" because we don't personally know these people. We don't hear everything that's going on, we only get to hear what they want us to know. Even information from interviews is a bit unreliable, don't you think? ....just my 2 cents..


And now for a totally unrelated question...
Hey CarneVaca, just out of curiosity (this has been bugging me for some time), why did you choose "meat-cow" for your user name? I think it's pretty cool :)

[CarneVaca]

SeventhWonder, thanks. "CarneVaca" is a contraction of the words "carne de vaca," which are Portuguese and Spanish for, literally, "cow meat." Portuguese and Spanish speakers use it in reference to what we call "beef." I just wanted a handle that wasn't a Fleetwood Mac reference and, since I am not a beefy guy, it's kind of a funny name.

Look, I'll come clean on the "better person" thing. Obviously, I don't know who the better person is. Claiming that I do would indeed be absurd. I wrote that knowing full well what the reaction would be here. It's always interesting to see what people will bring up to combat a statement like that. OK, so I like to make trouble. Besides, the bash-Mick threads were getting old...

In all seriousness, if I had a choice, I would hang out with Lindsey as opposed to Stevie. I can relate to him more and he seems like he's become quite relaxed and sober about life in recent years. He also seems like the kind of guy you could joke around with but also could get into really serious conversations.

As for you, Craig, if you didn't think this topic was going to cause a storm, perhaps you haven't paid enough attention to this board. Also, your sanctimonious attitude about caring more for the lyrics than the musical "package" is rubbing some people the wrong way, I'm sure. You seem to think that because you focus more on lyrics, you get music on a deeper level than folks who focus more on the music itself. I could make a case to the contrary. Or I could make a case either way. You should open your mind to the idea that "getting" music is not about one or the other always. I am deeply interested in words, and in fact I focus more on the lyrics than the music when I write my own songs. But I can just as deeply lose myself in a melody, rhythm or beat when I am enjoying music.

[blinker12]

Definitely not. I skimmed over your post and decided it needed no response. When I have something to say to you, I will. Directly. You may accuse me of a lot of things here, but "veiled responses" isn't one of them.

It needed no response, or you couldn't come up with one? I suspect the latter. After all, I asked you a direct question: Had it occurred to you that the reason Lindsey didn't seem sulky after the album's release was that he got his way? That is, that the tracks were sequenced according to his prerogative?

You contrasted his sunny disposition following the album's release with Stevie's moodiness to back up your outrageous assertion that Lindsey is a "better person" than Stevie. However, I don't think your argument holds water. Lindsey was sunny because he got his way. You'd better come up with better proof for your assertion than that, if you expect anyone to buy it.

[CarneVaca]

Originally posted by blinker12
It needed no response, or you couldn't come up with one? I suspect the latter.

Blinker, here are the questions you asked me:

1) Lindsey's the better person?
2) So now you're officially God, passing judgment on us mere mortals?
3)Hasn't it occurred to you that Lindsey was less upset than Stevie about the outcome because he won the argument?

One and two seem like rhetorical questions to me, therefore not worth answering. Unless you really want me to tell you whether I think I'm god. Then you asked the third question, which you proceeded to answer yourself. If you know the answer, why do I need to bother? Besides, you seem to be the only one around here who "knows" Lindsey won the argument. I don't know that, therefore I can't answer your question.

Finally, you should have read my last post before this one, in which I address the "better person" comment. This conversation is so yesterday, man, so get over it.

[blinker12]

Then you asked the third question, which you proceeded to answer yourself. If you know the answer, why do I need to bother? Besides, you seem to be the only one around here who "knows" Lindsey won the argument. I don't know that, therefore I can't answer your question.

I don't have the time right now to go back and look for specific articles to back this up. But Lindsey has said in interviews that Stevie was upset with the album's sequencing. I think we can safely assume from that statement that she didn't determine the track order _ which means that either Lindsey, Mick or John (or a combination) did. Can I say without a doubt that it was Lindsey who made the final decision? No. But the point is that Stevie was upset because her vision for the album wasn't honored. Lindsey certainly isn't above that kind of upset _ he's a notorious control freak.


Finally, you should have read my last post before this one, in which I address the "better person" comment. This conversation is so yesterday, man, so get over it.

You're right about the fact that I should have read your last post first _ which I didn't. I'm glad you decided to "come clean" about the "better person" issue. However, I don't think the fact that you "like to make trouble" justifies your original statement; if it did, any mean-spirited remark made in the name of mischievousness would be beyond reproach.
And thanks, I will get over it _ for now. But I wish you would retire your sweeping, negative generalizations about Stevie, which have no basis in fact. I mean, I'm not even her biggest cheerleader. I know she can be self-indulgent and egotistical (so can Lindsey and Mick, although the McVies seem to be a quieter breed). But I know an unfair comment when I see one.

[SmthngOfADreamr]

Originally posted by blinker12
I don't have the time right now to go back and look for specific articles to back this up. But Lindsey has said in interviews that Stevie was upset with the album's sequencing.

YES THANK YOU! I said this yesterday when someone asked how we knew that Stevie didn't win the sequencing argument. In return they bit my head off because this was apparently never said. Does anyone remember this source? Not that I care anymore, it's just for my own curiosity really.

[CarneVaca]

Originally posted by blinker12
But I wish you would retire your sweeping, negative generalizations about Stevie, which have no basis in fact.

You can't be serious. If I say someone is the "better person," it has to be based on fact? Fact has nothing to do with it. It's perception.

[Johnny Stew]

Originally posted by CarneVaca
In all seriousness, if I had a choice, I would hang out with Lindsey as opposed to Stevie. I can relate to him more and he seems like he's become quite relaxed and sober about life in recent years. He also seems like the kind of guy you could joke around with but also could get into really serious conversations.About ten or eleven years ago, I don't think I would have wanted to hang out with Lindsey, even if I had the opportunity. I didn't care for the way he came off in interviews, and I felt that he wouldn't be the most enjoyable of conversational partners.
I'll also admit that, as Fleetwood Mac fan, I was put off by his constant comments about "that band"... as if he didn't even wish to utter the name "Fleetwood Mac" anymore.

I still loved his music, and I was (and still am) absolutely enamoured with 'Out Of The Cradle'... but I wouldn't have wanted to hang out with him.

Nowadays though, he seems like a much more relaxed person, like you said. He seems more upbeat, and would be a fun guy to pal around with. :)

In addition, I always have, and still do, think that Stevie would be extremely fun to hang out with too. Many of the journalists who have interviewed her over the years, have said she's a blast to talk to, and makes you feel comfortable and at ease, as if you've known her your whole life.
She's a marvelous raconteur, and those types of people are always fun to talk with.
Plus she seems like a genuinely compassionate person, which scores a lot of points in my eyes.

I have a feeling that both Lindsey and Stevie would be great fun to hang around these days. :)

[Johnny Stew]

dissention... I went back and listened to the "Seven Wonders" outtake I have, and I was mistaken when I told you there were alternate vocals in the first verse.

The vocals in the first verse sound exactly like the album version (or at least extremely similar)... those alternate vocals I was remembering, are in the second verse.

Sorry about that! :wavey:

[Cour]

Originally posted by SmthngOfADreamr
YES THANK YOU! I said this yesterday when someone asked how we knew that Stevie didn't win the sequencing argument. In return they bit my head off because this was apparently never said. Does anyone remember this source? Not that I care anymore, it's just for my own curiosity really.



I'm not sure you're talking about my post, but in case you are, I hardly think I bit your head off.


Since I did address this yesterday when someone said that Lindsey won, I ask that anyone who remembers where Lindsey or Stevie specifically said that they got their way or any quote that refered to what track order they wanted and what compromises were or were NOT made, feel free to post them, please. Burnish.net has just about every single article and interview about SYW.


I do remember Lindsey saying that there were problems at the end of the album when it had to be cut back from 2 cds to 1. I believe Lindsey said that Stevie was unhappy with the sequencing. I do not remember reading any specific references to what Lindsey wanted and what he got and what Stevie wanted and what she didn't get. I don't "assume" that Lindsey got his way and I don't assume that there weren't ANY compromises made. Since Stevie has not said what about the sequencing she was unhappy about, I don't assume that I know and can read her mind.
I also believe that someone, and I'm not sure if it was you, was attributing Stevie's somber mood in recent appearances to her not getting her way and her being unhappy with the sequencing of the cd. I think that that is a far stretch since we have no idea what is going on in their lives day to day, and the sequencing of the cd took place almost 3 months ago.


It takes too long to post here now and it would take me too long to go back and get my original post and then get a busy message for 20 minutes or an hour. I don't think my previous post is any different from what I'm saying here. If it is then I apologize.

If someone has the quotes where Lindsey or Stevie say who won, I'd be more than happy to read it.

[myndpeace]

Originally posted by CarneVaca
Blinker, here are the questions you asked me:

1) Lindsey's the better person?
2) So now you're officially God, passing judgment on us mere mortals?
3)Hasn't it occurred to you that Lindsey was less upset than Stevie about the outcome because he won the argument?

One and two seem like rhetorical questions to me, therefore not worth answering. Unless you really want me to tell you whether I think I'm god.


I was originally trying to avoid having to post on this thread, but I couldn't help but laugh at your rhetoric. So you've answered the first question and, in somewhat of a roundabout way, the third, but I am in all seriousness waiting for your answer to the second. Please clue us in.

[Vianna]

This is the first I've seen of this thread-I have so much trouble getting on the Ledge now=:-( I'm a teacher and a tutor and I can only get on before school and at lunch and at lunch it's always busy.

I have been on the Ledge for years now and we Ledgies have been having this Stevie vs Lindsey argument for the last what? six years?? Some of you who've been here from the beginning know this as well as I do.

Frankly I love 'em both, both together and solo. It's just that, to me, and you don't have to agree, to get the full effect you need 'em both, together.

When I first heard OOTC, I realized where the FM sound for that line-up came from. Later, I figured out that some of that sound was Chris, and I'll have to admit that I miss that part now. It's the sound that has kept me a captive fan all these years.

I relate personally because of my life experiences to more of Stevie's lyrics than Lindsey's, but I can listen to his solo music longer than Stevie's solo music. All of this comes with lots of exceptions. For example, Street of Dreams or Stevie's Jane where I cry almost every time I hear it, it's so beautiful.

Don't you ever wonder where they would have been without each other?

and isn't it pretty amazing for those of us who have been fans for a long time that they are together at all...back in 87 I would have told you I doubted we'd ever see FM again after the Tango tour-I never thought I'd get to see Lindsey live with the band...it says a lot about both of their characters that they were willing to give it a go again if you ask me..neither Stevie nor Lindsey really needs the money you know..

Enough rambling..

[strandinthewind]

Originally posted by Cour
I also believe that someone, and I'm not sure if it was you, was attributing Stevie's somber mood in recent appearances to her not getting her way and her being unhappy with the sequencing of the cd. I think that that is a far stretch since we have no idea what is going on in their lives day to day, and the sequencing of the cd took place almost 3 months ago.

I am unsure if this helps, but during the first radio interview (perhaps with Mark and Brian) I, and many other Ledgies thought Stevie looked perhaps sad. That interview was supposedly live and was taped either the day of or within days of the funeral of the death by drug overdose of one of Stevie's friends and former collegue (Howie Epstein ?). I think it is fairly safe to assume that some of her scowling that day could be related to that because I would have also been sad. But, you are correct in that although that seems like a logical connection to me, I was not there, etc. Anyway, I thought this might help.

[CarneVaca]

Originally posted by myndpeace
I was originally trying to avoid having to post on this thread, but I couldn't help but laugh at your rhetoric. So you've answered the first question and, in somewhat of a roundabout way, the third, but I am in all seriousness waiting for your answer to the second. Please clue us in.

You should have stuck with your first instinct. I answered the first question before he ever asked it, and someone else answered No. 3, an answer with which I concurred.

As for No. 2, well, you'll just have to keep guessing.

[blinker12]

You can't be serious. If I say someone is the "better person," it has to be based on fact? Fact has nothing to do with it. It's perception.

Yes, *based* on fact. If you're going to make a statement like that, you'd better have a persuasive argument _ based on facts _ to back it up. So far, you haven't offered one.
The only evidence you cited in support of your statement that Lindsey is a better person is that he was less sulky when the album was released. Even if that were the case _ and I'm not sure it was _ I've been trying to point out that Lindsey is capable of being just as sulky when he doesn't get his way.
Anyway, I think all this is a moot point now, since I interpreted one of your recent posts (in which you "came clean") as a kind of retraction. So, I'm prepared to bury the hatchet if you are.

[DownOnRodeo]

I'm surprised you don't know! Maybe your American bibles are a bit behind. The answer comes straight after Revelations - in the Book of Carne - it ! :laugh:
(bows respectfully)

[PollyThePenguin]

Originally posted by Janet
But he is so gorgeous, whatever he lacks he makes up with looks. :)

How sexist! "He can't sing for sh*t anymore but I love it when he wears no underwear and howls into the mic. " That's so you, Janet. :wavey:

[CarneVaca]

Originally posted by DownOnRodeo
I'm surprised you don't know! Maybe your American bibles are a bit behind. The answer comes straight after Revelations - in the Book of Carne - it ! :laugh:
(bows respectfully)

:laugh: :laugh: :laugh:

Blinker, again, get serious. Or rather, don't be so serious. As for your comment about a "retraction," I did no such thing. Besides, there is no such thing as "retracting" a statement. once, it is made, it is made.

[blinker12]

Blinker, again, get serious. Or rather, don't be so serious.

Whatever. You have consistently refused to engage in any sort of debate about this with me, dismissing everything I've said by saying "Get serious" or "I have no response."
So I officially give up.
It's interesting, though, how much you have to say until someone truly calls you on your ridiculous invectives. Then, you suddenly become Mr. Let's Just Have Fun and Get Along. :rolleyes:

[CarneVaca]

Originally posted by blinker12
Whatever. You have consistently refused to engage in any sort of debate about this with me, dismissing everything I've said by saying "Get serious" or "I have no response."
So I officially give up.
It's interesting, though, how much you have to say until someone truly calls you on your ridiculous invectives. Then, you suddenly become Mr. Let's Just Have Fun and Get Along. :rolleyes:

Dude, you're beginning to feel like a gnat. I'm not sure what you want, exactly. I've never shied away from debate. I've gone farther than I should have in addressing your ridiculous demands to prove why I think Lindsey is the better person or whether I think I'm god. When you say, "you'd better have a persuasive argument," are you really going to be persuaded by anything I say about the "better person" thing? Let's knock off the nonsense.

[blinker12]

When you say, "you'd better have a persuasive argument," are you really going to be persuaded by anything I say about the "better person" thing?

Maybe, maybe not, but it's telling that you haven't even tried. If you aren't willing to argue a point _ especially one so negative _ there's no reason to make it. After all, this is a *discussion* board.
And on that note _ yes, I'm more than happy to end this particular discussion. ;)

[CarneVaca]

Originally posted by blinker12
Maybe, maybe not, but it's telling that you haven't even tried. If you aren't willing to argue a point _ especially one so negative _ there's no reason to make it. After all, this is a *discussion* board.
And on that note _ yes, I'm more than happy to end this particular discussion. ;)

I am more than happy to terminate this silly discussion, but you seemed to have missed my point here: I don't care to prove anything to you about statements I make.

[seteca]

JMVHO on the original thread subject:

I think Lindsey is one of the most UNDERrated musicians of all time. Any credit he has got is a tiny fraction of what he should have got by now. I just read a quote by a critic in the LB forum which described "Out Of The Cradle" as "criminally forgotten". Unfortunately he is absolutely right. And I fear the same will happen to Lindsey once he retires.:(

:wavey: :wavey: :wavey: