Will LB redeem himself on Leno [Archive]

strandinthewind

04-21-2003, 04:10 PM

Many people made the following comments about the Today show perfomance today at lunch:

"I was so embarassed for them when LB sang"

"LB did not sing on key - he also shouted - he cannot carry a tune anymore"

"LB was playing out of tune"

"Didn't Stevie say that when they sing together live its incredible and then blah"

These people are not avid FM fans and proabably just happened to be watching the Today show when FM came on. Nor were they willing to listen to the "hey - it was cold" excuse because they all said that did not stop Stevie and the rest of the band from sounding great (ouch!).

While I am not placing too much faith in these critics, I just worry because it is all about perception and I know some of these people like the rest of the general public would have bought SYW had they seen a good performance. Now, I am pretty sure they, and perhaps the general public, will not only not buy the CD, but they will not attend the concert for $100+ to hear the same awful performance that they indicated they saw on the Today show. I think they have a somewhat valid point seeing as how they are not really avid fans, do not understand the effect of temperature on music, Stevie and the band did sound good as opposed to LB, etc.

So, I hope LB gives an incredible performance (which he is clearly capable of - I mean they sounded really good during the Dateline rehearsal footage) on Leno and redeems himself in the public eye. Otherwise, I fear for the record and concert sales.

Note: no LB bashing intended :cool:

BlueGrass

04-21-2003, 04:14 PM

Hopefully Stevie will too.

strandinthewind

04-21-2003, 04:18 PM

Originally posted by BlueGrass
Hopefully Stevie will too.

I know, although I thought she sounded good, she looked frozen, which she probably was :laugh:

It is just that no one singled her out at all and in fact they actually praised her. They just solely negatively commented on LB. In fact, several people said "isn't this the guy who destroyed 'Here Comes the Sun' on New Year's Eve' 'he's lost his voice'" and I thought Oh No if this is indicative of the general public's perception of LB and, therefore, FM, this does not bode well for sales!!!

chiliD

04-21-2003, 04:24 PM

...it was colder & windier on the Apple rooftop in January 1969 when the Beatles played their final public show ever...they were FANTASTIC! No NEED for excuses! ;)

Les

04-21-2003, 04:29 PM

Yes please, let's place all responsibility for the band's future performance (in sales and on tour) on one person for one performance. That seems fair. ;)

Livia

04-21-2003, 04:40 PM

A local music critic, who usually hates everything and always gives bad reviews...anyway, when he wrote his review of The Dance I remember him saying, "this is bad...this is very bad." And that LB sounded like he had been gargling w/ Drano...

My main complaint about the Today show was that awful opening chord/sour note in GYOW that I don't even think LB intended to play...

BlueGrass

04-21-2003, 04:44 PM

Originally posted by Livia
A local music critic, who usually hates everything and always gives bad reviews...anyway, when he wrote his review of The Dance I remember him saying, "this is bad...this is very bad." And that LB sounded like he had been gargling w/ Drano...

My main complaint about the Today show was that awful opening chord/sour note in GYOW that I don't even think LB intended to play...

Yeah, it sounded like the beginning of Peacekeeper.

Wayne2

04-21-2003, 05:20 PM

Originally posted by chiliD
No NEED for excuses! ;)

very true

I'm a fan (not really avid), and i must say the chorus sounded pretty bad.

sulamith

04-21-2003, 05:46 PM

Strandie, I can relate to what you are sayin' babe!

I posted this on Nancy's board, and I'll retell it here if you guys don't mind:

I am on my way to teach my 10 am class Friday morning. Waiting to get on an elevator is one of my co-workers, who, a few months ago caught the Dance concert for the first time on PBS, then proceeded to trash LB, whom she doesn't know by name. Anyhow, she practically yells down the corridor to me:

She: I saw Fleetwood Mac on the Today show this morning!

Me: yeah, I saw it, too. It was-

She: That guy sounded terrible!

Me: Well, it was cold. You should have listened longer, the next two songs were great.

She: I had to turn it off after that first one! It was awful!

Me: HE WAS COLD!!

ARGH!!

I, too have worried about that impression on the less than casual fan!

It's frustrating, because we all know how great he is. I want everyone else to know it, but somehow they just don't feel the love!

-Sharon

gldstwmn

04-21-2003, 06:36 PM

They probably hadn't gone to bed yet. Who do you know that can sing at that hour of the morning? Plus Lindsey was probably freezing (Mick's) balls off. They are night people. It's a morning show. They do need to cut loose with the set list though. And yes, the begining of GYOW was off. It was off during the Grammy's performance a few years ago too. Lindsey can still sing just fine. And he can play like a mother. I thought the guitar solo on GYOW was great. It's not a song to start a show with though.

FiercestCalmSea

04-21-2003, 07:00 PM

Yea they will play better for Leno.They will be warm,and will have actually slept beforehand :) Everyone has off performances..give the guy a break;)

dissention

04-21-2003, 07:26 PM

They all looked so cold that they probably were peeing in cubes for the rest of the day.

As for the whole "it was cold excuse," for us New Englanders, it most certainly was NOT THAT cold on Friday morning; it was quite mild. BUT, they are from CA so I can understand why it would effect them so. Back there, when it's 65 degrees, they probably bundle up. So, 40 degrees down here is deathly!:)

FiercestCalmSea

04-21-2003, 07:31 PM

As for the whole "it was cold excuse," for us New Englanders, it most certainly was NOT THAT cold on Friday morning;

THANK YOU! They don't KNOW what cold is,for sure..

sulamith

04-21-2003, 07:39 PM

I guess we should be saying, "They weren't aclimatized!" instead, huh?

LOL!

I'm sorry, but I do agree GYOW is a terrible opener.
There were alot of "ruthless spirits" around that morning!

-Sharon

jwys_soapbox

04-21-2003, 07:55 PM

Enough worrying about Lindsey! What about Stevie? Do any of you remember how many shows were either canceled or shortened-up because of illness during her last tour? The entire time I watched that Today performance I was thinking why the hell are they doing this? Stevie's gonna get another bug and be ill all tour!!

I'm still sweating about that!

John

wondergirl9847

04-21-2003, 08:05 PM

Geez. They both sounded not so great, but it seems that the peeps at the actual show LOVED IT and didn't care one ioda about the bad opening note for GYOW. Lindsey has played GYOW a TRAZILLION times, ONE time he hits a foul note (maybe due to cold) and everyone says:

IT'S ALL OVER, HE CAN'T SING OR PLAY GUITAR!!! :eek:

Gimme a frickin break. :rolleyes:

Stevie's Rhiannon was lackluster and boring. GYOW was not great, but the solo sounded alright to me. BUT, PK and most of all, SYW were TERRIFIC and they BOTH sounded GREAT on those songs. SYW was the LAST song they did and it sounded the best, probably due to them warming up during the other songs.

Excuse me if I'm wrong, but I heard him play SYHA on that video on the SYW CD and OMG, he sounded frickin AMAZING..his voice is NOT gone and his guitar skills are AWESOME!!!!

Stevie hit high notes on SYW that surprised the frick outta me, so her voice, although not as flexible as in the past, but still unique and interesting, is NOT gone either.

He doesn't have to redeem himself, NONE of them do. JMHO.

Mad4stevie

04-21-2003, 08:06 PM

Now, I am not a musician, so I don't really know first hand how the cold can affect the voice and instruments, but . . . it did worry me that Lindsey's voice was pretty rough on GYOW. I guess it made me think of The Dance performance of the same song - and it seemed like his voice was straining then, too. I guess it seems like his voice isn't as strong as it used to be. Its not that it is a bad thing, but it does sound different. As does Stevie's voice.

I have never seen the Mac live (but have seen Stevie live), so these perceptions are based on video or TV performances. Maybe it is different live - I will find out on May 19th!!

SmthngOfADreamr

04-21-2003, 08:06 PM

Originally posted by jwys_soapbox
Enough worrying about Lindsey! What about Stevie? Do any of you remember how many shows were either canceled or shortened-up because of illness during her last tour? The entire time I watched that Today performance I was thinking why the hell are they doing this? Stevie's gonna get another bug and be ill all tour!!

I'm still sweating about that!

John

I'm worried about this too. But I think that if Stevie thought it would be a problem, then she would not have allowed them to make such an ambitious tour schedule. Maybe she was legitimately sick during the TISL tour?

And guys...

STOP WORRYING ABOUT LINDSEY!!! I wish someone else who was there would back me up on this, but he sounded great in person! The crowd was loving it! He has not lost his voice. If anything was to blame it was definatly the early hour and the cold. I don't care who says it wasn't cold... it was 35 degrees and anyone who knows how the wind blows in NYC, which is surrounded completely by water, will tell you that the wind chill must have felt like 15! Give them a break! :D

sulamith

04-21-2003, 08:09 PM

I don't think any of us think they need to redeem themselves, but there is concern that the passing music fan may base opinions on that one thing, esp. since some of us had experiences with co-workers making jerky comments.

I wanted to pinch that co-worker of mine's nose off!

The upside of that is, more tickets and standing room for us, right? lol!

-Sharon

strandinthewind

04-21-2003, 08:16 PM

Originally posted by sulamith
I don't think any of us think they need to redeem themselves, but there is concern that the passing music fan may base opinions on that one thing, esp. since some of us had experiences with co-workers making jerky comments.

I wanted to pinch that co-worker of mine's nose off!

The upside of that is, more tickets and standing room for us, right? lol!

-Sharon

I know - I am just "glad" (?) someone else got "blindsided" by this like I was. Again, I am not in anyway bashing LB for his performance, I am just saying I was stunned at casual fans' vehement reactions and opinions and the fear that if many others also feel this way after seeing the Today show (which almost everyone pretty much agrees did not come across on the t.v. as a stellar peformance), then, that does not bode well for sales (concert or CD). Hopefully, that will not happen on Leno and LB wll tear it up as we all know he can do. That is all I am saying.

Regina

04-21-2003, 08:30 PM

A couple of sour notes won't kill a career or a reputation. I actually heard two semi-fans say the same type of thing about the televised performance of GYOW. But, I think any redeeming that needed to be done was done with the next three songs they performed that day because there were no complaints or snarky comments from them about anything that happened afterwards.

As for GYOW, maybe they did hit the wrong chord at the beginning. The song they played just before they got FM on the air--during the final soundcheck--was Peacekeeper and it was great. Flawless. I was very surprised to then hear GYOW as their opening song.
And if someone mistakenly hit the opening notes to Peacekeeper--it would explain both the look Lindsey turned around to give the background musicians (Kind of like a "what the hell is that?" look) and also would explain why, when Matt Lauer asked Stevie what the next song would be, and she answered Peacekeeper, she turned around and mouthed to Lindsey "I hope."

And even if the cold wasn't a factor, or the fact that in a lot of pictures Lindsey is holding a balled up tissue in his hand (indicating he might have had a case of the sniffles), or that they might have flubbed up--and it was JUST a case of an off-half a song (and really, I think you can't condemn the whole song as being off--at most, it was just half a song)--BFD.
It happens.

No one is perfect all the time.
And if people don't want to buy the album because of that--or decides to sell their tickets on ebay--their loss.

I was one of the people who absolutely hated Lindsey's version of Here Comes the Sun but I never thought, on the basis of how he decided to interpret the song, that he was washed up or lost his musical genius. Same goes for Stevie's choices or flubs. I'm just sitting back and enjoying the music. And live music is like live theater, it's risky and imperfect and when the right people are involved--it's damned wonderful.

wondergirl9847

04-21-2003, 08:36 PM

It was said here on the Ledge that Lindsey picked up a tissue thrown at him from a fan...wiped his nose, then gave it back to the fan!!! LMAO!!!!! Is this true, I KNOW I read it somewhere here! THAT IS GREATNESS!!! Think it will show up on Ebay anytime soon? :laugh:

NO, I don't wanna buy it, I'm just curious WHY he did that!! LOL

dissention

04-21-2003, 09:17 PM

They have lost a lot of the ooomph in their voices in past years. Which is why I find it ridiculous that they will even try to charge over $100 in ticket prices for not-so-great performances.

Stevie is what I'm talking about here. Anyone else notice that right after AHI 2000, her voice went downhill fast? She sounds absolutely horrid live nowadays. Rhiannon on Friday wasn't too bad, but they need to pack it in; it sucks nowadays. She was stupefyingly awful on the TISL tour (until the end of the tour when she began to sound good). Then she sounded great at Walden Woods, but now she sounds lousy from the Dateline rehearsal clips. She just stands there and sings in this monotone voice. A cow's moo after being tipped would get a better reaction from moi! I just don't think she's up to snuff live presently. Don't expect to see songs like EBO or RTTG because she won't even TRY to sing these songs for fear that she could strain her voice and not be monotonal the next night! Hopefully my thoughts will change though!

SmthngOfADreamr

04-21-2003, 09:30 PM

Originally posted by dissention
They have lost a lot of the ooomph in their voices in past years. Which is why I find it ridiculous that they will even try to charge over $100 in ticket prices for not-so-great performances.

Stevie is what I'm talking about here. Anyone else notice that right after AHI 2000, her voice went downhill fast? She sounds absolutely horrid live nowadays. Rhiannon on Friday wasn't too bad, but they need to pack it in; it sucks nowadays. She was stupefyingly awful on the TISL tour (until the end of the tour when she began to sound good). Then she sounded great at Walden Woods, but now she sounds lousy from the Dateline rehearsal clips. She just stands there and sings in this monotone voice. A cow's moo after being tipped would get a better reaction from moi! I just don't think she's up to snuff live presently. Don't expect to see songs like EBO or RTTG because she won't even TRY to sing these songs for fear that she could strain her voice and not be monotonal the next night! Hopefully my thoughts will change though!

Well in that case, with any luck, she'll start taking lip sync-ing classes. Maybe then we won't have to be subject to this and she'll be able to immortalize herself, stop the aging process, and entertain us almost as much as some people half her age do, like Britney, or if we're lucky, maybe even like Christina! Then, instead of being forced to listen to her 'moo' the notes out each night, our $100 can be better spent on a troupe back-up dancers for the tour who are all dressed up as a coven of witches gyrating marvelously to a techno version of Rhiannon. There could even be pyrotechnics! Maybe the coven dancers could jump out of a flaming cauldron? The possibilities are really endless. She should consult with Madonna. I think I'm on to something here!

dissention

04-21-2003, 09:34 PM

Originally posted by SmthngOfADreamr
Well in that case, with any luck, she'll start taking lip sync-ing classes. Maybe then we won't have to be subject to this and she'll be able to immortalize herself, stop the aging process, and entertain us almost as much as some people half her age do, like Britney, or if we're lucky, maybe even like Christina! Then, instead of being forced to listen to her 'moo' the notes out each night, our $100 can be better spent on a troupe back-up dancers for the tour who are all dressed up as a coven of witches gyrating marvelously to a techno version of Rhiannon. There could even be pyrotechnics! Maybe the coven dancers could jump out of a flaming cauldron? The possibilities are really endless. She should consult with Madonna. I think I'm on to something here!

I like what I'm hearing! Maybe she could set up stripper poles on each side of the stage and then right in the center a big ole' mud wrestling pit! The winner wins an autographed chiffon thong!

seteca

04-21-2003, 09:37 PM

Originally posted by BlueGrass
Yeah, it sounded like the beginning of Peacekeeper.

Yes, listening to it again I am now 99% sure what happened was that for a split second Lindsey played the intro. to Peacekeeper. To be precise, he plays the first note and doesn't even finish the second note before he realises that it's the wrong song and he immediately switches to the F chord for GYOW. Of all the mistakes made in the history of live performances, I can't think of a more excusable one: it was SEVEN in the MORNING, it was FREEZING, it was their FIRST song, the count-in for Peacekeeper sounds VERY similar to the one for GYOW, and Peacekeeper was the one song they had to do an additional sound-check for (for whatever reason) so it was the last one they had soundchecked and would have been on his mind. So he played the intro to Peacekeeper for about 1 second before realising that he had made a mistake....BIG DEAL!!!....In fact, I am very IMPRESSED at the speed with which he realised his mistake and then subsequently changed immediately to the correct chord - I don't think a single person in the audience even noticed that "mistake".

As for being "off key"...why are people saying it like he was singing in C instead of F??? He was "off key" by what.....a quarter to half a step...at the MOST?? And for no longer than the first verse. First time they've performed in front of a totally unknown audience in 6 years, and it's at 7 in the morning in freezing windy conditions, I think MAYBE we should give the guy a break huh?!?!?:mad:

Other than a ONE NOTE, TOTALLY EXCUSABLE guitar slip-up, and a very slightly off-key first verse of the first song by Lindsey, the four of them delivered an exceptionally good performance given all the circumstances I've listed above.

If people are going to decide not to buy their album or go to their concert simply (and ridiculously!!!) by judging one member of a 36 year old OFFICIAL SUPER-BAND for the opening guitar note and first verse of a 4 song set performed under very difficult conditions, then I am GLAD: I wouldn't want them to own the album or see them in concert in the first place - they don't deserve it if they're going to be such judgemental stuck-up idiots. I would like to see such people's album collection anyway...what would be in it? No doubt I would find "80 minutes of perfect As to Gs in 35 different octaves".:rolleyes: :mad:

The album IS absolutely AWESOME, all four members of the band are STILL absolutely AWESOME, and this tour will be AWESOME!!!!! And you know what...that's not "just my humble opinion"...that's a FACT!!!! SUE ME if you think otherwise!:p :D

tothegypsy

04-21-2003, 09:42 PM

My Mom is just a casual fan, and without me even asking her what she thought, she told me that Lindsey didn't sound so great, but every time Stevie came in it sounded fine. I'm not trying to fan any flames, just offering more input in regards to the opinion of casual fans.

sodascouts

04-21-2003, 09:48 PM

Originally posted by seteca

As for being "off key"...why are people saying it like he was singing in C instead of F??? He was "off key" by what.....a quarter to half a step...at the MOST?? And for no longer than the first verse. First time they've performed in front of a totally unknown audience in 6 years, and it's at 7 in the morning in freezing windy conditions, I think MAYBE we should give the guy a break huh?!?!?:mad:

Other than a ONE NOTE, TOTALLY EXCUSABLE guitar slip-up, and a very slightly off-key first verse of the first song by Lindsey, the four of them delivered an exceptionally good performance given all the circumstances I've listed above.

You're absolutely right! And that explanation makes a lot of sense. I think it's just the fact that it was the first note of the first song and therefore the first chord everyone heard was a big DISchord! lol First impressions tend to color and I think it rattled LB enough to throw him off vocally as well.

Note: The "almost-there" notes may be close to right, but the truth is, they still make you wince.

Sarah

04-21-2003, 11:38 PM

DownOnRodeo

04-21-2003, 11:41 PM

You're forgetting the "Open up, when you won't take it from me" :laugh: That one had even me balking :distress: Good for a laugh for a fan like me, but good for their sales and image?? :distress:

wondergirl9847

04-21-2003, 11:52 PM

I screw up the lyrics to GYOW (and other songs) ALL the time and I've sung them CRAPLOADS of times too!! LOL I think the song most screwed up on by myself AND Stevie is Rhiannon. LOL Sooooo many ways to sing that one. HAHA! Also, GDW with repeating that "Heartless challenge" instead of singing "Lousy lovers, pick their prey..". LOL So, it's "Heartless challenge, pick their prey..." WHAT?? LOL Too funny!!

I love that he screwed up GYOW anyways. Gave us something to gab about besides the AWESOME album!! HEE!! Who's talking about the GREAT rendition of SYW? Nobody...we are all talking about the cruddy GYOW!! LMAO!!!!

Janet

04-22-2003, 12:22 AM

Ok I just have to say something.

That was probably the biggest live crowd Lindsey has played to since Feb of 1998. He was probably nervous as hell.

I don't think cold had anything to do with it. It wasn't like really much under 30, it was just windy that's all.

I think he was nervous and goofed. Remember when Stevie forgot how to sing Dreams? We didn't see that. It's a shame he didn't get to redo the song, second time he would have been great.

Lindsey still can sing and I don't think 100000 million people turned away from FM because of one performance...I don't think ONE person did..and if they did, their loss.

Linds still has it and so does Stevie. Again, give them a BREAK!

jwys_soapbox

04-22-2003, 12:23 AM

Has anyone made some decent sounding mp3s of the songs yet? If not, I'll try to do it tomorrow night. I need to clear the video tape for the Leno shows.

If someone has, please lemme know ;)

John

estranged4life

04-22-2003, 12:37 AM

from what I have read (I missed that Today show appearance, Actually I forgot about it!!!) and it seems that Lindsey had a bad start on singing GYOW and now everyone seems to be ripping FM...Geez people sure are funny when someone has a bad day...LOL!!!! Brian J.

wondergirl9847

04-22-2003, 12:45 AM

Go to Neil's site:

http://www.fleetwoodmac-uk.com/

to get the mp3's for the Today Show songs. :)

stefan

04-22-2003, 03:48 AM

Being a big fan is the one thing. Being (or trying to be) objective in evaluating music from a band is the other thing. I wouldn't praise an album just because it's from my favourite band. But to me the new album is great. There are certain songs I like more than others but I`m really very happy about the result.
And now about the live performances. Even though I'm a huge huge Lindsey fan I must say that I was a little shocked, when I saw the video. I didn't expect something like this. It wasn`t just the first few notes or seconds not sounding good. GYOW was a desaster imo. He didn't even try to sing the high notes on the chorus- but that was an intentional change. It must have had its reason, I suppose there must have been problems doing this one in former rehearsals. But even the safer version they tried to do this way was not working. Cold or not cold- Stevies voice was working too on this day, so that could not be the only excuse. I think she was doing well. And sorry- I really doubt that it sounded live in NY great and just on the TV something was wrong. I am sure you all were thrilled by being there and seing the band live. So would I have been. This must have been a great experience. But the sound of Lindseys singing on this day was a disappointment on every song although GYOW was surely the worst one. I thought it was embarassing. And I also must say that Here comes the sun live back then was very hard to bear also.
If a song doesn`t work live then leave it. Here comes the sun was too much for Lindseys voice. The last part ("sun sun sun- here we come" made him struggle to hit the high notes and he didn't succeed) He must have been aware of that when rehearsing the song. So then he shouldn`t perform it or otherwise should prepare his voice as long as needed to get it done. Dito for GYOW. I read in interviews that they had a vocal coach before the Dance which is a very professional way of preparing for such a demanding tour. Do they have one too now? Anyone heard anything about the preparation for the upcoming tour?
They have the skills (and I`m sure they still have them) but it`s a matter of preparation and training. And if it really doesn`t work no more on a certain song, why not do a different one?
I don`t believe it's a matter of age. The voices may change but that doesn't need to mean that they get worse. For some songs that`s good and for some songs it's not. The skills are still there and the sound on the little live studio clips and the album is pretty good, isn`t it? I believe they can do much better than on Today. And I also believe they will on the upcoming tour. At least I hope so for those of you who get there. But they shouldn`t walk out and perform in such a condition imo. I am very much looking forward on the next TV appearances under studio conditions and hope they make up for the last one. Didn't seem to be like they were well prepared at this point . :distress:

jmn3

04-22-2003, 05:06 AM

You people are being a bit rediculous. I would like to see anyone stand up in 30 degree weather and start screaming into a microphone. Please tell me what you sound like after a minute. GYOW was a bit sloppy and out of tune for what, like a minute? The solo was great. If you want to hear the perfect album version of a song, don't see a band live. It's never going to be the same. I can't understand what people want from a band? If they played with a million backup musicians and made their live performances sound like the studio, then everyone would be bitching about that.

Also, everyone who has been ragging on this performance seems to be really going after Lindsey. Give the guy a freaking break. He hasn't performed in front of that type of crowd in what, 5+ years, it was 8:30 in the morning (5:30 LA TIME!!!!!!) and 30 degrees with wind. Also, it's not as if his playing suffered throughout the entire show. And for that matter, how great did Stevie sound during Rhiannon? She doesn't even attempt to hit anything high except that "Welllllllll, I don't think you do" part.

These guys are in their 50's, not their 20's...personally I enjoyed the show. I look at it this way, so GYOW had some character in it ....who cares? It's still the rocker it always has been and the audience sure didn't seem to mind the Peacekeeper/GYOW flub. It's not the first time GYOW has had some problems in it's live performances...check out the live album, or Memphis '82...**** happens. IMO, the show was great!!

jmn3

04-22-2003, 05:08 AM

Originally posted by DownOnRodeo
You're forgetting the "Open up, when you won't take it from me" :laugh: That one had even me balking :distress: Good for a laugh for a fan like me, but good for their sales and image?? :distress:

Yeah, but come on...how many people who just "know the song" really even know all of the words. For all a casual fan knows, that could be the real words. Most people wouldn't even notice. I doubt one word mixup coupled with a wrong chord is going to kill sales and image. If that were the case, Fleetwood Mac would have been gone long ago.

stefan

04-22-2003, 05:24 AM

I don't care for mixed up verses, that can happen.
And I too don`t like bands doing their live songs 1:1 as the album versions or with semi playback or fullplayback. But his voice was pretty bad on this (entire) performance, whether we are big fans and look for reasons and excuses or not. But however- I think they will make up for this one next time.

SmthngOfADreamr

04-22-2003, 07:16 AM

Originally posted by dissention
I like what I'm hearing! Maybe she could set up stripper poles on each side of the stage and then right in the center a big ole' mud wrestling pit! The winner wins an autographed chiffon thong!

Now that I would pay to see! Sharon and Mindy each on their own pole, with Stevie and Lindsey duking it out in the middle. Priceless!:laugh:

Alison

04-22-2003, 08:42 AM

Well I for one had to play in very cold weather. I had to do a out door Christmas thing one year. It was about the same temp as the Mac played in. I tell you it was hard to play guitar in that tempurature. My fingers were freezing and going numb, my guitar had trouble holding it's tuning. With the wind blowing it made the sound hard to Q in properly. It was hard to hear my self sing.
Give the band a break, stuff happens,it was just an off day.

CarneVaca

04-22-2003, 09:34 AM

I was trying to avoid this thread. The premise that Lindsey needs to redeem himself is just goofy.

There's no doubt that the cold affected his playing. I could tell right off that he was struggling. Guitars are extremely sensitive to weather.

Second, his voice was strained when he started singing. I often get the sense he is straining too much when playing live, but in this case it was almost painful. He screwed up a verse. But the song got better toward the end. And the band got better with each song.

Performing is tough. When I get in front of a crowd, my biggest worry is, What's my voice going to do tonight? If I hit the right key and pitch with the first note, that tends to set the tone. If I struggle, it will take a couple of songs to get it right. One thing I've learned is the importance of the first song. So I tend to pick something with which I am extremely comfortable. Of course that changes. Something that's very comfortable today may be replaced by something else in a couple of weeks or months.

Go Your Own Way is not a number the band is used to doing first. It requires a certain amount of energy and mindset that happens later in a typical show.

If you think this was bad, go back to the performance of Don't Stop at the Clinton inaugural. That was pretty bad, and I didn't see the band retire in shame after that.

I'm sure they will do great on Leno.

Miranda

04-22-2003, 11:21 AM

Originally posted by CarneVaca
I was trying to avoid this thread. The premise that Lindsey needs to redeem himself is just goofy.

There's no doubt that the cold affected his playing. I could tell right off that he was struggling. Guitars are extremely sensitive to weather.

Second, his voice was strained when he started singing. I often get the sense he is straining too much when playing live, but in this case it was almost painful. He screwed up a verse. But the song got better toward the end. And the band got better with each song.

Performing is tough. When I get in front of a crowd, my biggest worry is, What's my voice going to do tonight? If I hit the right key and pitch with the first note, that tends to set the tone. If I struggle, it will take a couple of songs to get it right. One thing I've learned is the importance of the first song. So I tend to pick something with which I am extremely comfortable. Of course that changes. Something that's very comfortable today may be replaced by something else in a couple of weeks or months.

Go Your Own Way is not a number the band is used to doing first. It requires a certain amount of energy and mindset that happens later in a typical show.

If you think this was bad, go back to the performance of Don't Stop at the Clinton inaugural. That was pretty bad, and I didn't see the band retire in shame after that.

I'm sure they will do great on Leno.

I was avoiding this thread too. I didn't want to get flamed! LOL! Seriously, I have to disagree. Let's get real. The impact of that Today show performance will be felt. It's a definite negative for the non-hardcore fans. This is how I heard it playing out with friends and co-workers who liked the band in the past, but who are not rabid followers of the "drama". They are of the opinion...

"Oh, are they still around?"
"Is this old or new stuff on their cd?"
"Where's the other chick?"
"Are these all the original people,
or is this another regrouped oldies act?"
"Stevie sounds ok, but she sure has slowed down."
"Wow, that dude can't sing anymore...bummer."
"What happened? That dude used to be a hot guitar player."
"They waited too long to cash in on the FM name one last time."
"They've lost it. No chemistry, no flame, no sparks."
"Oldies act...over the hill."
"I can't believe how bad they sucked."

Sorry about that last one, but these are quotes from average fans who saw the Today show. Friends and co-workers of mine made these comments. They're mostly 40 somethings who know the band and wanted to like what they saw, but did not. At the same time, they're not big time fans who give a crap about excuses like the weather, temp., time of day, etc. The band knew what they were doing going on a morning show back East in early April. They can't expect the average fan to show patience or empathy with a bad performance. That one show will be the only mark a lot of people use to judge them. That doesn't bode well. Middle aged housewives make up a big part of the core fan base. They saw Today and now dismiss FM as an oldies act not worth taking in for the tour...not at the prices they're charging. I hate to say it, but the band, especially LB, has to give a kick ass performance on Leno or some other free public forum before the tour. They need to create a huge buzz about their freshness or energy, or something to overcome the drab, flawed display on the Today show. Otherwise, they need to put out an explosive video to catch a wave. Short of that kind of turn around FM is being seen as another washed up oldies act trying to cash in one last time before retirement.

There, I said it. Sorry, but I'm afraid it's the truth. I hope not, but that's the way I'm hearing it from everyone else.

Wayne2

04-22-2003, 11:38 AM

Originally posted by seteca
If people are going to decide not to buy their album or go to their concert simply (and ridiculously!!!) by judging one member of a 36 year old OFFICIAL SUPER-BAND for the opening guitar note and first verse of a 4 song set performed under very difficult conditions, then I am GLAD: I wouldn't want them to own the album or see them in concert in the first place - they don't deserve it if they're going to be such judgemental stuck-up idiots. I would like to see such people's album collection anyway...what would be in it? No doubt I would find "80 minutes of perfect As to Gs in 35 different octaves".:rolleyes: :mad:

The album IS absolutely AWESOME, all four members of the band are STILL absolutely AWESOME, and this tour will be AWESOME!!!!! And you know what...that's not "just my humble opinion"...that's a FACT!!!! SUE ME if you think otherwise!:p :D

wow...i cant believe people are letting comments directed at Fleetwood Mac's performance upset them.

Very few people have said "they should give it up". They just noticed that there were a few flaws in the performance.

I dont think it's any reason to throw hissy fits (not directed at you seteca, just saying in general...).

You can throw all the excuses you want "it was cold, it was early, yada yada", the fact remains...he sounded terrible at times.

sulamith

04-22-2003, 11:56 AM

Miranda, Wayne2, and of course you Carne (hee hee) make very good points, and I am gettingon the flame wagon with you.

I watched the Today Show with my husband who is a big fan of alternative rock. His taste in music has moved steadily forward for twenty years. He never listens to the stuff he liked in high school anymore.

Anyway, the point is, I had to endure much ribbing and eye-rolling from him about Lindsey's guitar playing, and yes, he did base it on just the opening part. FM lost him pretty quick, and he was more than ready to tell me that there are way better guitar players around.

I know it isn't true, and it is sad, but that is they way alot of folks are going to view it. Toady is a national show seen by lots of people.

Do I think it is going to disastrous for them? Probably not, but they didn't win anybody over, either.

I hope they give bitchin' performances on their next appearances because I do think there is a little damage control that needs to be done!

OK, don't send me to hell in gasoline drawers over this!
-Sharon

sulamith

04-22-2003, 11:58 AM

Toady?

I guess I deserved that!

TODAY, of course!

-Sharon

strandinthewind

04-22-2003, 12:36 PM

Originally posted by seteca

As for being "off key"...why are people saying it like he was singing in C instead of F??? He was "off key" by what.....a quarter to half a step...at the MOST?? And for no longer than the first verse. First time they've performed in front of a totally unknown audience in 6 years, and it's at 7 in the morning in freezing windy conditions, I think MAYBE we should give the guy a break huh?!?!?:mad:

I am just curious. I replayed the Today show performance (all four) last night several times. It seems that in all of the songs (particularly the chorus), there is an additional high male (?) voice that is off key sounding. I do not think it is LB because I thought I could hear him as well as this other voice. It is hard to see who is actually singing. It could be Brett Tuggle, he has a mike. Did anyone else hear this?

shackin'up

04-22-2003, 01:08 PM

I understand that you americans feel strong about the PR-function of this live performance nationwide, but my perception is slightly different. I saw this only via the internet, in a crappy quality, but I really liked GYOW!!! Of course there were some difficulties in the opening, but I really like the raw-edged version of this song, and he took it towards the end: also the solo sounded alot heavier and darker then we are used to. And he sang it with passion. Not perfect, but whatever, I'm not waiting for Dance-slickness this tour, SYW sounds very perfect, 76 minutes long, and now I want them to rock the house down. With mistakes and slightly out of tune singing every now and then. I only want them to play the guts out of them. And I think linds did that during GYOW.

gerald

madformac

04-22-2003, 01:43 PM

Originally posted by strandinthewind
I am just curious. I replayed the Today show performance (all four) last night several times. It seems that in all of the songs (particularly the chorus), there is an additional high male (?) voice that is off key sounding. I do not think it is LB because I thought I could hear him as well as this other voice. It is hard to see who is actually singing. It could be Brett Tuggle, he has a mike. Did anyone else hear this?

Yes. I agree, there is another male voice in the chorus, possibly Tuggle and that is what is sounding bad. It's not Lindsey for sure. Whoever it is is trying to replace Chris's voice but the vocal range is nowhere near Christines. I think that is why it's so odd.

Secondly, everybody going on about Lindsey messing up the intro guitar is not totally correct, ok the first couple of notes were a bit off I must admit but normally they would be drowned out, read on. The Turner has been set up for a darker more aggressive sound and the reasons the intro sounds bad are 1) Lindsey's Turner's volume is too high at the start (possibly a mixing desk problem for TV which is why it sounded fine live) and 2) Where's that acoustic guitar intro? Yep, again it's barely audible in the background, just bad mixing I guess. Listen again and hear what's missing.....

:wavey: :wavey:

CarneVaca

04-22-2003, 01:51 PM

A lot of people around here don't seem to realize just how loose the Fleetwood Mac of the 70s was. Singing off key and bad notes were commonplace in their shows. Methinks too many of us are expecting Dance-quality sound, which I respectfully submit to you, was a little too perfect.

madformac

04-22-2003, 02:03 PM

Originally posted by CarneVaca
A lot of people around here don't seem to realize just how loose the Fleetwood Mac of the 70s was. Singing off key and bad notes were commonplace in their shows. Methinks too many of us are expecting Dance-quality sound, which I respectfully submit to you, was a little too perfect.

I agree.

In fact, I was just thinking that this afternoon after watching some 70's Mac earlier today.

Also we must remember that "The Dance" gig was edited down and cleaned up by Lindsey and Elliot Scheiner after the recording was made, plus it was mixed properly as well. From what I've heard of other Dance tour songs from different nights the same cannot be said, songs recorded and left untouched afterwards. One of the Irvine Meadows shows for instance, Lindsey's GYOW solo totally falls apart from a "perfection" point of view but I wouldn't want to listen to the same songs sounding exactly the same every time. This is Mac not '90s Genesis.

:wavey:

strandinthewind

04-22-2003, 02:14 PM

Originally posted by CarneVaca
A lot of people around here don't seem to realize just how loose the Fleetwood Mac of the 70s was. Singing off key and bad notes were commonplace in their shows. Methinks too many of us are expecting Dance-quality sound, which I respectfully submit to you, was a little too perfect.

Oh, I fondly remember those days :laugh:

It just seems that these days that regardless of whether it is fair, unless you are perfect, your history as far as sales go and no sales = no new record, etc.

But, then again, the Stones were far from perfect this last time around and they sold very well. So who knows. All I know is I cannot wait to see the Mac in whatever state!! :laugh:

seteca

04-22-2003, 02:31 PM

Originally posted by Wayne2
wow...i cant believe people are letting comments directed at Fleetwood Mac's performance upset them.

What "upset" me was not anybody being critical towards the performance - anybody can be as harsh as they like towards it, that's their opinion, they're perfectly entitled to it.

What DID p**s me off was the thought of anybody (i.e. the semi-fan/guy or girl who likes some of their songs) labelling "Fleetwood Mac 2003" as "rubbish etc" SIMPLY by judging them on this one performance. It's like "yea they were amazing for 36 years!! Perfect!!..................oh!!:eek:......Lindsey hit the wrong note..:distress:...that's it, it's over, everybody throw your Mac albums into the bin!!! Set your tickets on fire!!........Were you actually thinking of going to a Fleetwood Mac concert....ARE YOU CRAZY!?!...........oh my God ...!! Look at that guy....he's holding the SYW album......STONE HIM!!!!":rolleyes:

Shackin'up said it perfectly, I second his post word for word.

:wavey: :wavey: :wavey:

seteca

04-22-2003, 02:36 PM

wondergirl9847

04-22-2003, 06:45 PM

Seteca is right, I'm not mad at the peeps who say bad things about the Mac...I have grown up with people who made fun of everything I listen to and STILL to this day, make fun of my musical faves. I am having a hard time understanding people saying Lindsey can't sing or play guitar anymore and they are too old to be doing this?!?! WHAT THE FRICK!?!!

If Ozzy Frickin Osbourne can go out there and sing and stuff, the Mac can too!! I am sick of the word OLD...they all look AMAZINGLY wonderful for being in their 50's and I CANNOT say the same thing about other musicians/singers. I'm just happy to say that EVERY SINGLE MEMBER (past AND present!!) of FM is alive!!!! THANK GOD!!

I don't worry about those so-called fans who are saying "Oh, they are still around?" etc...because they should just go back to listening to their Rumours album, and they will forever be happy. :rolleyes: