Fake Fur?

[MACFAN]

I usually just accept everything she does whether it's clothing, hair styles, song choices etc. She can do no wrong in my eyes. But I cannot seem to get passed the fur coat. So please someone who was there confirm it was fake. Being a vegan and semi animal rights activist (meaning I dont go throwing paint on people wearing furs) I was dissapointed.

Anyone who knows me will tell you I definately ADORE her. I've actually gotten into arguments with people who knock her I just thought she was more sensitive. Would she make a hat from one her dogs fur/hair? Same thing. Whether an animal is a pet or not it's still a living, breathing creature. Those minks suffer inexcusably to lose their skin. Im just hurt by her wearing fur.

[Phil]

Stevie's coat was most definitely fake so worry no longer!

[CarneVaca]

Oh, I just asked the same question on a different thread. I too am hoping it was fake fur. It might have been a good idea to just wear something else and not trigger the questions.

[MACFAN]

Thanks Phil and not to dwell but how can u tell......ooh that rhymes..... Also

It's just that my mother has 2 fur coats she no longer wears because I told her, I will not go out in public with her if she wears one of those things. I guess she kinda saw the light

[pwyll]

I felt the fur yesterday and believe me, it was real.

[FiercestCalmSea]

Yea,she's all about the fur coats right...since a long time ago.I'm not big on fur,but,honestly,if Stevie Nicks wants to wear a real fur coat,I am not going to lose sleep over it:)

[WindingRoad]

I agree...there are older pictures of Stevie wearing fur.

And I really doubt that Stevie would have "fake" anything. Remember her saying that she knew "when she was a child" that shopping at JC Penny was not for her. lol

She responded to a fan question about jewelry saying that she didn't know what piece the fan was asking about, she had lots of "fake jewelry".

I bet her "fake" stuff cost more than any of my real stuff! :D

susieq

[tommer]

i'll bet she skinned the little fluffy chinchilas herself !!!:]

[FiercestCalmSea]

i'll bet she skinned the little fluffy chinchilas herself !



LMAO,you always know just what to say Tommer :)

[Gazza]

Can't say I have a problem with people wearing real fur.

Fake fur is so cheap! :)

[nae]

maybe it's one of her old ones she bought a long time ago?

N.

[MACFAN]

It's just that with all these celebrities coming out about fur and some of them are boobheads, I would feel Stevie (being far superior to them), would think they made some sense.

Believe me I spent an hour chatting with her in a hotel bar in 1996 and she was so grounded and real, I dunno, I was a little dissapointed, but that does not diminish how I feel about her or her music.

[nae]

An hour chatting? About what? Please, do tell!

Nae

[wondergirl9847]

That's something to discuss...whether you would stop liking FM/Stevie/Lindsey if they did something you DID NOT agree with? Hmm....interesting. ;)

[bootylicous]

I don't really care about the fur issue personally, but I think fur, fake or real, is just really not cool, I mean, I thought that became politically incorrect and tacky in the 80's?! What's next, is Stevie gonna put a confederate flag on her next album (or charge WAY too much money for her concerts?! :mad: ). Not horrible, but way TACKY.

Evan

[FiercestCalmSea]

I mean, I thought that became politically incorrect and tacky in the 80's?!



Yea,well,when has Stevie ever really bowed to fashion trends??

[Tusk57]

Who cares if something has been dubbed politically incorrect or not? If Stevie wants to wear real fur, more power to her! Lindsey is wearing leather jackets and I guess leather pants. I eat meat myself. I sure hope that has not become "politically incorrect".:( Heck, I hope it has. I love being a rebel Bill

[Sugar]

It just seems like a really bad choice. I thought she wanted no part of political issues? Oh well, it's her right, but it wouldn't be the first time I've been disappointed in Stevie. Actually that article that WindingRoad quoted was a real let down for me.

And Tusk 57 has a point about Lindsey's leather. I suppose it's the idea of something being killed ONLY for its fur. Maybe it would make it better if I could get me some chinchilla burgers at the market or something.

And no, I don't lose sleep over this sort of thing. I just think it's a bad choice. I mean when you think of the myriad of choices available to Stevie Nicks for outerwear during her appearance on the "Today" show to promote the album, why fur? :shrug:

[Tango]

Different values, etc. Stevie wore a fur, and she is not a vegetarian. But I don't judge her or Lindsey for wearing a leather jacket, or any member for any other difference/value they have that differs from mine. I love their music. I don't want them to be like me, and don't want them to live their lives for me. It's a little late to throw these expectations on anyone in the band isn't it?

[Phil]

Okay, I was surmising but I'm still confident that the coat was fake fur. Stevie has wisened up over the years and surely would realise the outcry wearing fur may incite. Sheryl Crow is anti-fur and the two chicks trade fashion tips on a regular basis. I wasn't actually present to stroke the offending garment but it did appear to resemble cashmere more than fur but who knows?
I think it amusing that there has been so much speculation over this issue when we don't know for sure either way. That said, if it does turn out to be the real deal, I'm with Tommer... I can just see her chasing after the little critters, of course with Lindsey in toe wielding that knife as he chased her through the woods!

[SmthngOfADreamr]

Originally posted by Tango
Different values, etc. Stevie wore a fur, and she is not a vegetarian. But I don't judge her or Lindsey for wearing a leather jacket, or any member for any other difference/value they have that differs from mine. I love their music. I don't want them to be like me, and don't want them to live their lives for me. It's a little late to throw these expectations on anyone in the band isn't it?

Couldn't have said it better myself Tango. Lindsey has received nothing but praise for choosing to wear a leather jacket ALL the time recently. Our society seems to have some double standard. It's ok to slaughter as many cows as we want to and make jackets, shoes, gloves and hamburgers out of them, but God forbid that we kill a furry oversized rat like creature and make a coat out of it. Frankly, I don't care what they wear. People have the personal freedom to choose whatever they want.

[MACFAN]

Well lets put it this way Ive read posts from people on this thread who ragged on her for curling her hair because it makes her "look old", "the ends look dead" and whatever the case may be it's her hair! Im ragging on her for wearing a fur coat but alot of you posters have said way worse things about Stevie. Check yourself.

People are in the mindset when they wear fur that they look glamorous, actually it added way to much weight to her frame. Even the skinniest person wearing a fur looks a little dowdy. And when your only 5'1" its just not a good look. Being the fashion icon she is, someone should have said this really isnt working for you. She looked like Nanook from the North. And I have accepted all looks from Stevie. The way overdone linebacker Other Side Of The Mirror look, the Mae West back from the dead look of the Mask tour. But this was just stupid. Sorry.

[SmthngOfADreamr]

Originally posted by MACFAN
Well lets put it this way Ive read posts from people on this thread who ragged on her for curling her hair because it makes her "look old", "the ends look dead" and whatever the case may be it's her hair! Im ragging on her for wearing a fur coat but alot of you posters have said way worse things about Stevie. Check yourself.

People are in the mindset when they wear fur that they look glamorous, actually it added way to much weight to her frame. Even the skinniest person wearing a fur looks a little dowdy. And when your only 5'1" its just not a good look. Being the fashion icon she is, someone should have said this really isnt working for you. She looked like Nanook from the North. And I have accepted all looks from Stevie. The way overdone linebacker Other Side Of The Mirror look, the Mae West back from the dead look of the Mask tour. But this was just stupid. Sorry.

So in other words you do not think she should have worn a fur simply for a fashion reason, and not for political reasons. I'm fine with that because that is merely your opinion, and I'll respect that. My "beef" is with people who isolate fur as animal cruelty. Frankly though, I was there and I thought she looked radiant, especially when she came out at 5:30 for the sound check and had her hair up in a bun. But I am glad she had the balls to wear something like that if that's what she's into, instead of falling victim to our society's strange mores. But whether you thought she looked good in it or not is just an opinion, and everyone is entitled to that.

[paleshadow]

Originally posted by MACFAN
She looked like Nanook from the North

I thought she looked warm and toasty. Nanook was no dope.

Here's a quote that I remembered. I thought it worked nicely in this thread.

"The only people with a right to complain about what I do for a living are vegetarian nudists"

-Ken Bates, one of California's 700 licensed fur trappers.

[MACFAN]

I dont think people who abhor fur coats do so for poltical reasons. As much as I think it's wrong for animals to be slaughtered for food I wouldnt care if someone ate S**t for breakfast, let the body be a burial ground for dead animals. But trapping for fur is just plain wrong. These animals are often left to suffer in these traps for hours, how humiliating. Somtimes they have electrial prods shoved up their butts and are raised just to be killed. Im not a religious person but isn't one of God's commandments, "Thou Shall not Kill"? It does not deferentiate between humans and animals. Believe me I dont even kill bugs.

And Ken Bates is a complete A*****E, he should trap that other moron Ted Nugent.

[Sorcerer386]

I just have an idea, maybe I'm on glue or something, who really knows? But, considering that it was what, 38 degrees outside? I think Stevie just wanted to stay warm and couldn't give a damn about what she wore. She probably just wanted to wear what kept her the warmest. Personally, I think the cold is what threw them off on "Today." I thought the performances weren't very good at all, and there were quite a few mess ups on Go Your Own Way. "Today" kind of worried me...the band didn't seem ready to perform live.

[FiercestCalmSea]

She looked like Nanook from the North.




LMAO...she did look kinda funny.Like i said before,I am not into animals being killed for fur,but for god's sake,this woman is 55 years old(almost),I don't think there is anyone who could tell her what or what not wear at this point in her life.

[Tango]

Originally posted by MACFAN
I dont think people who abhor fur coats do so for poltical reasons. As much as I think it's wrong for animals to be slaughtered for food I wouldnt care if someone ate S**t for breakfast, let the body be a burial ground for dead animals. But trapping for fur is just plain wrong. These animals are often left to suffer in these traps for hours, how humiliating. Somtimes they have electrial prods shoved up their butts and are raised just to be killed. Im not a religious person but isn't one of God's commandments, "Thou Shall not Kill"? It does not deferentiate between humans and animals. Believe me I dont even kill bugs.

And Ken Bates is a complete A*****E, he should trap that other moron Ted Nugent.

Hi MACFAN, Hey, I was with you until you got into Mosiac Law and religion. The Ten Commandments guy/The Biblical Law is all about substitionary atonement, sacrifice (animals at first, including Adam and Eve getting their coats of fur after their Garden of Eden sin). Everyone has their beliefs and many people (not all) have their underpinning beliefs on Judeo Christian traditions, and dont have the same problems with fur and meat dishes. Those writings definitely distinquish between animals and man, and say that man has dominion over the animals. I guess in the food chain, animals aren't ranking as high as man. Hey, animals eat other animals and bugs. It's the way of the universe, although there are clearly those that abhor that way of thinking.

With that, Happy Passover and Happy Easter to those celebrating.

I hope you're all enjoying family, friends and some great new FM music.

[Tusk57]

Ted Nugent may be a lot of things, but he's no moron. He has to be one of the smartest rock and rollers out there.

[CarneVaca]

Boy, this thread is sure taking a weird twist now. Ted Nugent is now some sort of genius.

Look, here's where I stand: I eat meat and I wear leather. I even sit on leather.

But there is not moral equivalent between taking the skin of an animal that is slaughtered specifically for the skin with taking the skin as a byproduct of slaughtering the animal for nourishment. If leather didn't come from animals we eat, I would have nothing to do with it. Throwing away the hides from an animal you're going to kill anyway would seem wasteful, to my way of thinking.

If Stevie wants to wear fur, that is her business. But I don't like it. It was a very poor choice of outerwear to appear on national TV. Surely she could have worn wool, which is taken from an animal that doesn't have to be slaughtered.

I have great respect for all living things. I abhor the notion of killing an animal in a heartless, painful way just for the skin. If someone did that to my dog, I wouldn't be happy.

[Bella Figura]

I can understand how people feel strongly anti-fur. We, human beings, do very cruel things to not only each other but to many many animals on this planet. So if the activists put Stevie on the spot, she should be ready and able to defend herself.

But I am also vain enough to admit, fur feels great and keeps you warm and snug, it's luxurious and self-indulgent. But why slaughter a fresh animal when you can wear vintage fur. There are many retailers which sell older but no less beautiful coats. Then you can have your cake and eat it too since you now also recycle!!

Hopefully, this is what Stevie has done herself...

[MACFAN]

See thats what initially got me going, that the animal rights activists will rip her apart in the press. I was more dissapointed than angry with her decision. One time after the innauguration ball she got ripped to shreds by a Giselle Benatar of I think the NY Post(?) who told her to "lose some weight honey". I was so furious I called and actually spoke to Giselle and gave her a piece of my mind.

[sulamith]

I know I am coming to this debate late, and I didn't come in to take side, really, but I just wanted to say that I have noticec that fur is making a comeback in Hollywood and on the runways. The last couple of years it has become featured more and more.

Again, I'm not saying it is right or wrong, but it does seem to be coming back into style. If you feel strongly against it, and if there is going to be a backlash about it, there will alot more than Stevie in the line of fire. When I first started seeing new furs in the magazines I was prepared to start hearing alot of debacle about it, but so far there haven't been any real blowups that I have heard of. It made me wonder if it is becoming more acceptable again.

Having said that, I think Stevie's fur looked vintage, real or not. The cut of the jacket looked a little out of style and not in keeping with some of these new ones. If it was real, it was probably an old one.

You know how she hangs on to stuff forever!


If she's gonna get blasted by the press for wearing a real fur, well, you know what they say about publicity!

-Sharon

[SmthngOfADreamr]

Originally posted by thewhitewingedd
Well the only thing to do is find out if it was real or not. I think it was fake...I doubt think ASK STEVIE will give us much insight to the question though so I guess we might not ever really know.

This discussion triggered a memory of Stevie. I remember watching one of those VH1 things about Fleetwood Mac and they showed a pic of Stevie walking from her limo to a hotel and she had a really large fur coat on...I think a fan actually ran up to her with an album to sign...She did so then went inside...I wonder if that coat was real...Humm...

"I NEED TO KNOW"

But besides general curiosity, why should it really matter if it's real or not? Does it make her songs worse if it's real? It's basically a personal choice she's made, and she doesn't have to justify it to anybody. Let's not forget this is a women who's had at least one abortion, and nobody jumps all over her morality for that around here. What's the difference? I'm seriously not trying to antagonize you, just wonderin'... :D

[sulamith]

I think I remember seeing a picture of her getting off a plane and into a limo with a fur on...

It even looked like this one.

I bet it is the same one.

-Sharon

[CarneVaca]

Originally posted by SmthngOfADreamr
But besides general curiosity, why should it really matter if it's real or not? Does it make her songs worse if it's real? It's basically a personal choice she's made, and she doesn't have to justify it to anybody. Let's not forget this is a women who's had at least one abortion, and nobody jumps all over her morality for that around here. What's the difference? I'm seriously not trying to antagonize you, just wonderin'... :D

As I said, she can wear whatever she likes. I share the opinion that it is disappointing to see her wearing fur. I wish she hadn't. To me, it was distracting. Rather than just sit there and watch the performance, I had to wonder if it was real fur and just what the hell she was thinking.

[MACFAN]

The difference between her having an abortion lies in the fact that we dont know why she chose to have one. Maybe she thought she would not be a good mother at that point in her life. Maybe the father of the baby said no way. Maybe she did not want to have a child with all the drugs in her system and risk having a child that was mentally retarded or sick or drug addicted itself. Maybe she was advised against going through with the pregancy by a Dr. who saw the writing on the wall. But Fur because it is cold? There are other clothing options. It's 2 different things.

[SmthngOfADreamr]

Originally posted by MACFAN
The difference between her having an abortion lies in the fact that we dont know why she chose to have one. Maybe she thought she would not be a good mother at that point in her life. Maybe the father of the baby said no way. Maybe she did not want to have a child with all the drugs in her system and risk having a child that was mentally retarded or sick or drug addicted itself. Maybe she was advised against going through with the pregancy by a Dr. who saw the writing on the wall. But Fur because it is cold? There are other clothing options. It's 2 different things.

Of course having an abortion and wearing fur are two different things. What they share in common is what I mentioned in my last post - both are considered issues of morality. I'm not trying to justify her abortion or trying to justify her choice to possibly wear fur. I'm trying to ascertain if and why we as a group think that these issues should matter when we are a fan of someone's music. It's kind of like when we were arguing about whether or not Natalie Maine's comment should have had an impact upon her music career.

[SmthngOfADreamr]

Originally posted by CarneVaca
As I said, she can wear whatever she likes. I share the opinion that it is disappointing to see her wearing fur. I wish she hadn't. To me, it was distracting. Rather than just sit there and watch the performance, I had to wonder if it was real fur and just what the hell she was thinking.

Gotacha. That makes a lot of sense actually. It was sort of a bold move. Thanks. :thumbsup:

[Bella Figura]

MACFAN, are you going to tell us your story about meeting Ms. Nicks?? you mentioned it earlier in this thread....

"Believe me I spent an hour chatting with her in a hotel bar in 1996 and she was so grounded and real, I dunno, I was a little dissapointed, but that does not diminish how I feel about her or her music."

[FiercestCalmSea]

I'm trying to ascertain if and why we as a group think that these issues should matter when we are a fan of someone's music.



It really should not,but i also don't think MACFAN was trying to start anything like that,he was just stating an opinion,and like everything,it snowballed.
I don't think Stevie Nicks has ever stood up and said "Follow Me..I am a pillar of morality".Gimme a break..my mom had an abortion a few years before she had me...do i hold that against her? No.Do i tell her she has no morals? No. My grandmother wears fur...what the hell am i supposed to do,disown her?? I don't care to worry all about Stevie's moral standing...the fact is,she is a stellar songwriter and performer,and that is what i choose to appreciate about her.

[SmthngOfADreamr]

Originally posted by FiercestCalmSea
the fact is,she is a stellar songwriter and performer,and that is what i choose to appreciate about her.

EXACTLY what i'm saying. Besides writing great songs and being a cool performer, it doesn't matter what she wears or does. Right on!

[CarneVaca]

Originally posted by SmthngOfADreamr
EXACTLY what i'm saying. Besides writing great songs and being a cool performer, it doesn't matter what she wears or does. Right on!

Right, and if she showed up wearing a thong and pasties, you'd be right there supporting her right to do that! :D

[SmthngOfADreamr]

Originally posted by CarneVaca
Right, and if she showed up wearing a thong and pasties, you'd be right there supporting her right to do that! :D

Dude you crack me up. :laugh: But I fear I am not one of those one of those mindless Stevie-lovin' drones whom you adore so much, if that is what you are inferring. I just support her and everyone else's freedom of choice. I prefer to criticize her work, not her fashion no matter how atrocious.

[CarneVaca]

Originally posted by SmthngOfADreamr
Dude you crack me up. :laugh: But I fear I am not one of those one of those mindless Stevie-lovin' drones whom you adore so much, if that is what you are inferring. I just support her and everyone else's freedom of choice. I prefer to criticize her work, not her fashion no matter how atrocious.

Oh, sorry, I meant I'd be supp... Oh never mind. :laugh:

[FiercestCalmSea]

Right, and if she showed up wearing a thong and pasties, you'd be right there supporting her right to do that!


Not sure what to say about that
one :rolleyes: But since we all know she is emotionally bonded to The Dress,we don't have to worry too much do we?

[strandinthewind]

Originally posted by thewhitewingedd
Why do I want to know???.....I'm just plain nosey....

LMAO - Me too - although I could give a rat's ass one way or the other!!!!! :laugh: :laugh: :laugh: :laugh:

[dissention]

First of all, I wouldn't stop liking her music because of what she decided to wear. It doesn't change the music. HOWEVER...

If someone goes out into public wearing a murdered creature, they should be asked why they are wearing it and should be required to answer. No matter how you slice it, there is no justification for wearing an animal that was murdered to protect your ass from a lousy 40 degree cold front. It's wrong and immoral. Just think about what that animal had to go through physically for Stevie to be able to get up there and be warm. If you think it's okay and justified, you're wrong. There is no right or wrong, only wrong.

For those that think this is trivial, how would you like it if an animal captured you, beat you, and then proceeded to skin your hide? My guess is that you wouldn't be happy unless you were a masochist. Any life is not trivial, be it human or animal. BUT, our society has become so desensitized to the fact that killing is okay. Think about the things you say before you speak them.

And Ted Nugent IS a moron. :laugh:

[strandinthewind]

To add well needed levity to this tired thread, let just say I LMAO when I saw a VW van from the 70's tyhe other day with a bumper sticker that read "Ban Fur not Babies!!!" coupled with a bumper sticker that read "Ban the Bomb, not the Baby!!!" :] :] :] :]

[Sarah]

Forget the fur, what I wanna know is

WhyTF was she wearing a brown coat with black pants and black shoes?!

Come ON, Stevie. Sheebus.

[SmthngOfADreamr]

Originally posted by Sarah
Forget the fur, what I wanna know is

WhyTF was she wearing a brown coat with black pants and black shoes?!

Come ON, Stevie. Sheebus.

LMFAO I was trying to ignore that since I was preaching earlier that it is only the performance and music that counts..... but that was driving me up the damn wall. It's a stretch but I was hoping that it was actually a navy blue pant suit and shoes. That would be the only thing to justify it. And then she tied it all together with a pink scarf :confused:

[Sarah]

Originally posted by SmthngOfADreamr
LMFAO I was trying to ignore that since I was preaching earlier that it is only the performance and music that counts..... but that was driving me up the damn wall. It's a stretch but I was hoping that it was actually a navy blue pant suit and shoes. That would be the only thing to justify it. And then she tied it all together with a pink scarf :confused:


NO justifying it.

That was black with brown.

She could have done the scarf and the black.. but the scarf on the brown on the black? Uh uh. No no. And you know.. It's not like she doesn't HAVE a black coat. I think this was just bad designing. Stevie Nicks wore brown with black and pink. What's the world coming to?

[FiercestCalmSea]

That was black with brown.




LMAO...since this is not as controversial as the whole fur thing,i have to comment,lol.Has she gone color blind or what?? WHO let's her go out in public like that?? Good Christ woman,my 5 year old cousin can dress better than you! She's damn lucky she is cute and can sing,that is all i have to say..cause if she wasn't someone in NYC might have taken a shot at her,lol....

[celestenadia]

The sable coat with the black slacks & shoes... I don't really consider it
a faux pas... That scarf on the other hand... We KNOW she has ALOT more
prettier ones in her massive collection:nod:

[MACFAN]

The real faux pas was the dead animal she was wearing, not mixing brown with black with pink. We sit here saying she can wear whatever she wants, yet laugh our asses off at her color choices?

[SmthngOfADreamr]

Originally posted by MACFAN
We sit here saying she can wear whatever she wants, yet laugh our asses off at her color choices?

Yep :p

[MACFAN]

Well said Dissention. I satrted this whole thread thinking there would be other caring individuals out there. Go to a Stevie show and half the audience is balling cuz she singing about love and loyalty. We as humans have a loyalty to these animals who have no voice and cannot protect themselves. Fur wearing is vain and stupid. Would I rather be driving a Focus instead of my Infinity of course not. But a car is not alive , it does not breath or have feelings. And It certainly doesnt feel pain when it is rammed into a wall.

Oh yeah my best frind has a Focus

[paleshadow]

Originally posted by dissention
First of all, I wouldn't stop liking her music because of what she decided to wear. It doesn't change the music. HOWEVER...

If someone goes out into public wearing a murdered creature, they should be asked why they are wearing it and should be required to answer. No matter how you slice it, there is no justification for wearing an animal that was murdered to protect your ass from a lousy 40 degree cold front. It's wrong and immoral. Just think about what that animal had to go through physically for Stevie to be able to get up there and be warm. If you think it's okay and justified, you're wrong. There is no right or wrong, only wrong.

For those that think this is trivial, how would you like it if an animal captured you, beat you, and then proceeded to skin your hide? My guess is that you wouldn't be happy unless you were a masochist. Any life is not trivial, be it human or animal. BUT, our society has become so desensitized to the fact that killing is okay. Think about the things you say before you speak them.

And Ted Nugent IS a moron. :laugh:


I think it's great that people feel so pasionately about this, but morality is subjective. To say something is moraly wrong is to imply that your morals are the standard. This is a big world, and there are many cultures and belief systems that do not comply with our own, as a country or personally. To say that someone should be required to answer to anyone who asks them why they wear anything is ridiculous just because you don't like it. If someone came up to me on the streat and said "Excuse me, but what gives you the right to wear that" I would reply "I'm sorry, but I missed the part where you explained why it was any of your business". This is America, so you do have the right to express that you don't like something, but as long as someone isn't breaking the law (remember, moral law is subjective unless you have a red phone that dials God direct) then no one is "required" to explain their actions to anyone. I don't really buy the "desensitized" comment about killing in regards to fur trapping or wearing. If anything, we have become super sensitized to these type of things. Since man began walking on two feet we have primarily been a carnivorous, skin/fur wearing people. I think that people should understand eachothers differences, and respect them rather than just try to change them. Passion is great, but not when it deteriorates into a false sense of moral supremacy.

[Sarah]

wearing fur isn't right at all.. i haven't seen anyone condone it here... i don't think that's the issue. it's definitely sad to think that an innocent creature died for the making of a coat in an age where synthetics are readily available.

i certainly wouldn't do it - my grandmother has furs, and i remember a mink stole that scared the **** out of me when i was little; especially after i learned that it was once a living animal.

however. even though i feel it is wrong and that i would never wear REAL fur, i can't say that stevie can't or shouldn't - (even though i feel she shouldn't because its wrong to kill animals for vanity) - because her convictions are not my own.

the fur coat is a little.. 1975 anyway.. i didn't realize that was still "fashionable." (the brown on black certainly wasnt fashionable.)

[DownOnRodeo]

Originally posted by Sarah

the fur coat is a little.. 1975 anyway.. i didn't realize that was still "fashionable." (the brown on black certainly wasnt fashionable.)
I think the idea was that it was so unbelievably cold, she just ransacked the depths of her wardrobe and put on anything she could find :laugh: The fur probably hasn't been worn since 1975 :D

A bit OT, but Lindsey must have been wearing about three layers of thermals! :distress:

[Johnny Stew]

I'm just wondering why people are expending so much energy worrying about this, when we don't even know for sure if it was real.

[estranged4life]

Originally posted by Johnny Stew
I'm just wondering why people are expending so much energy worrying about this, when we don't even know for sure if it was real.

I havent worried about it myself at all...But I have enjoyed reading this thread...lol...Brian J.

[CarneVaca]

Regardless of whether it was real, it inevitably raises the question. This is my point all along: It seems terribly in bad taste to wear fur/fake fur in front of a national audience. I have to believe Stevie isn't a total out-of-touch idiot and therefore knows about the sensitivity in regards to wearing animal skins.

Doesn't she have a dog or two?

If she wants to wear fur, fine. But it offends me. It also says something about her.

And I made this comment in jest before, but I wonder how many people would support her wardrobe choice if she showed up wearing a thong and pasties? What she wears matters.

We have indeed become too desensatized to a lot of things. Indeed, I fear that by shrugging off this kind of thing, even if it bothers us, is a reflection of how callous we have become as a society.

[SeventhWonder]

originally posted by paleshadow:

I think it's great that people feel so pasionately about this, but morality is subjective. To say something is moraly wrong is to imply that your morals are the standard. This is a big world, and there are many cultures and belief systems that do not comply with our own, as a country or personally. To say that someone should be required to answer to anyone who asks them why they wear anything is ridiculous just because you don't like it. If someone came up to me on the streat and said "Excuse me, but what gives you the right to wear that" I would reply "I'm sorry, but I missed the part where you explained why it was any of your business". This is America, so you do have the right to express that you don't like something, but as long as someone isn't breaking the law (remember, moral law is subjective unless you have a red phone that dials God direct) then no one is "required" to explain their actions to anyone. I don't really buy the "desensitized" comment about killing in regards to fur trapping or wearing. If anything, we have become super sensitized to these type of things. Since man began walking on two feet we have primarily been a carnivorous, skin/fur wearing people. I think that people should understand eachothers differences, and respect them rather than just try to change them. Passion is great, but not when it deteriorates into a false sense of moral supremacy.

You took the words right out of my mouth. :)

Dan

[Bella Figura]

to add just a little more political controversy to this subject.

Should a public celebrity be made to answer for choices such as "wearing fur" but then be silent on other issues such as "advocating for peace"???

It is very interesting to me to watch this groundswell movement of conservatism...and it's stepchild: the disintegration of values and respect for dissent and/or opposing viewpoints.

It becomes an American value to pass judgements using a vague moral justification to over-criticize opposing viewpoints and follow them up by screaming, yelling, putdowns, namecalling and just plain meanness...

I find myself on a wierd side of this arguement but if you expect celebrities to keep their anti-war views to themselves then you must extend that courtesy to other aspects of their lives not using them as fodder for your political pet projects.

And since Stevie has mostly kept her political leanings to herself, I doubt she will publically answer for her suspected wearing of fur...

[EnchantedStorms]

It's all about what's politically correct at the moment.

We could be having this discussion about abortion.....but something tells me it most likely wouldn't have the same outcome.

Stevie's had both. A fur coat, AND an abortion.... I just love her music. The rest is not for me to judge.


~Angela~:wavey:

[CarneVaca]

Originally posted by Bella Figura
to add just a little more political controversy to this subject.

Should a public celebrity be made to answer for choices such as "wearing fur" but then be silent on other issues such as "advocating for peace"???


You raise an interesting point. The difference between whether Stevie should make a statement on war and peace versus whether she believes animals should be killed so she can wear them is this: She showed up wearing fur/fake fur, not with a peace sign on her chest or a Kalashnikov strapped to her shoulder. If she had shown up wearing a peace sign or sporting a machine gun, then it would have been perfectly legitimate to question her on her views. She would have been making a statement.

Wearing fur makes a statement too. It says to those of us who abhor the practice of killing animals to wear them: "I don't mind that some poor defenseless beast had to die for me to look a certain way." She could clear it all up by just telling us, "I don't wear fur. What you saw was fake fur. I don't believe in killing animals to wear their pelts, but I like the look and the feel, so I wear the fake stuff." That would be simple, right?

I, for one, think Stevie, Lindsey, and whoever else who wants to, should state their political views. If they choose not to, it's fine with me too. Let's face it, a lot of people who said Stevie did the right thing by not speaking up on the war did so out of relief. They really didn't want to know how she felt, lest they disagree with her point of view. In their eyes, Stevie might have become a somewhat less desirable icon if they found she took the opposite view. As John Lennon said, "Living is easy with eyes closed."

If I had to guess, I'd say Stevie, and most certainly Lindsey, oppose the war. Hey, even Sir Paul, who historically has stayed out of politics, has now made statements against this war. He called the cluster bombs we dropped on Baghdad "cowardly weapons."

[Lisa44]

I COULDN'T CARE LESS ABOUT WHAT SHE WAS WEARING.

[SmthngOfADreamr]

I'm sorry, but this thread is becoming rediculous. It's a personal thing. Either you mind other people wearing fur or you don't. It is not about society. It's on the individual level. This argument could go on for decades.

And obviously it didn't matter that much. Go read the thread "Will LB redeem himself." From what people have heard from co-workers and friends, casual listeners were obvioulsy more concerned with the fact that the band sounded like crap on the Today show, than they were with what animal Stevie was or wasn't wearing. And that's the way it should be. Period.

[Johnny Stew]

Well, previously I had been staying away from this thread, but since I gave in and made a comment above, I might as well add more thoughts.
In for a penny, in for a pound.

I think I am probably one of the least callous or desensitized people around... to the point that my friends are constantly having to remind me that I can't save the world, and that I shouldn't kill myself trying... but even at that, I prefer to know the whole story before I get all fired-up about something.

And that's just what I feel is happening here.
People are upset... their feathers are ruffled... they're disgusted, and disappointed, and dismayed... and no one even knows if it's a real fur or not!

In my opinion, I feel completely safe in saying that it was NOT a real fur Stevie was wearing.
I think just about any celebrity in this day and age, knows better than to wear real fur... most especially out in public, on live TV, in front of a national audience potentially in the millions.

The only celebrities I can imagine wearing a real fur nowadays, are those who like to cause controversy... and Stevie is not one of those people.

And *that* is why I'm not upset about this... nor do I feel she owes us an explanation.

[DeeGeMe]

I hate to sound like a fashionista too but damn, those were some UGLY shoes she was wearing too! What exactly were they? They looked positively orthapedic! (And this from someone who loves her Birkenstocks!)

And for the animal rights activists among us, just how long before y'all start worrying about how many silk worms had to die to make all those silk chiffon dresses and silk scarves Stevie loves so much?

Or is just cute, furry little creatures you care about?
Just asking.

[CarneVaca]

I am far from being an animal rights person. I like meat too much. I object to killing animals strictly for the purposes of making clothes with their pelts. DeeGeMe, I take it you're OK with that?

I don't just care about furry little animals. I respect all life. If I catch a spider, I'll take it outside. No need to kill it. As I've made clear on other threads about other topics, I oppose killing, period.

Johnny, you don't know if it's fake, just as I don't know if it's real fur. If it is real fur, how do you feel? It seems to me you've skirted the real questions here:

--Is it real fur? If so, what does that say about your idol?
--If it isn't real fur, why wear it and give the appearance you're wearing fur and needlessly risking controversy?

I'm pretty sure all the people who say they don't care about she was wearing would have something to say if she showed up in thong and pasties. No one wants to address that question, which tells me I may be on to something.

[Bella Figura]

why is everyone condemning this thread??? It's interesting, timely and FM/Stevie subject oriented. And it's been quite civilized compared to other threads which have popped up in the past... :nod:

anyhoo, just a quickie update to my question: Should a public celebrity be made to answer for choices such as "wearing fur" but then be silent on other issues such as "advocating for peace"???

This question was asked in the context of the current media condemnation of those peace activists who are also celebrities. According to many people, celebrities are there to entertain not to speak their political minds. They're slammed whether they are vocal or make their statements silently thru fashion/gestures.

Case in point, Susan Sarandon who was very vocal advocating peace but was silent once the war started and only held up the Peace sign at the Academy Awards. And personally, I think she did the right thing, advocate for peace but once the war started, use silence to advocate peace thereby still supporting the troops. But she has been consistently slammed by the conservatives for expressing her and told to "stay in the kitchen" or in this case, the movie set...

and that's what I meant with my question, if you can demand political answers from celebrities for issues interpreted by the public as entitlement, then celebrities should also have the right to be vocal and theatrical to express their own viewpoints and support those causes they care about.

and Johnny Stew is probably right, Stevie was probably wearing fake because she hates controversy...look how she reacted to the Dixie Chick "scandal"...the girl is very pc.

hey Carne, tho I suspect being hippie kids from the 60's, Lindsey and Stevie have liberal tendencies but then again, Stevie is also influenced by her folks which probably are conservative...They both probably fall somewhere in the middle like most of us...as far as the thong and pasties, that is soooo not Stevie even in her youth!!! but you can get that action at a Britany or Christina concert :wavey:

[gypsysara]

Im not sure what she is wearing, real or not, but Id hope its not. However I dont know and wont lose sleep over it. And if it is, so be it, she's entitled to her own opinions. Doesnt mean Im on whatever side, just telling it like it is. (and Im a vegitarian too)

[SmthngOfADreamr]

Originally posted by Bella Figura
Should a public celebrity be made to answer for choices such as "wearing fur" but then be silent on other issues such as "advocating for peace"???


OK I'll bite. I see these two issues in completely different lights.

I'm not a big fan of celebrities that go around "advocating peace" (or advocating war, for that matter) for the simple reason that it annoys me when people abuse their celebrity status. It is vein and presumptuous of them to assume that the public cares, or should care, about their opinion of political matters that are completely outside of the realm of their expertise. In other words, we pay them to be in movies, not to shoot thier mouth off about politics. And the reason this annoys me so much is largely due to the American public itself. We, as a society, will listen to anyone who is a star and usualy accept their word as the law without blinking. There seems to be some strange perception in this society that celebrity begets intelligence. And while Susan Sarandon might be an intelligent woman...frankly...who gives a damn? I'm not saying she should be stifled, but I just wish that Americans weren't so starstruck as to allow Hollywood to creep into EVERY aspect of life!

Now, as for somoene who chooses to wear a fur: It's rediculous to think that they should have to answer to anyone. I made the mistake in my first post on this subject of saying that Stevie could fall victim to society's strange mores on this subjet matter. Now that I think about it, that's absurd! A more is the beginnings of a law. It's a general beleif that's held by most of society, such as stealing is wrong. This isn't even close to a more! Can you imagine fur being outlawed??? It's laughable! Perhaps illegal poaching or cruel trapping... yes. But WEARING fur? It makes me chuckle. There is not a huge widely held belief that fur is wrong. Take a look at the responses on this board for a case in point. And yes I understand that the fur you wear sometimes comes from these awful places. But maybe it doesn't have to be that way? People who wear fur are not breaking the law, or even going against a more, so of course they don't have to answer to anyone!

( By the way, you'll have to excuse my spelling of the word 'more.' Not sure how it is spelled and I'm at work so I really can't searh now. It's pronounced "more-ay")

[Johnny Stew]

Originally posted by CarneVaca
Johnny, you don't know if it's fake, just as I don't know if it's real fur. If it is real fur, how do you feel? It seems to me you've skirted the real questions here:

--Is it real fur? If so, what does that say about your idol?
--If it isn't real fur, why wear it and give the appearance you're wearing fur and needlessly risking controversy?I don't feel that I've skirted anything here... and I also don't see how what I said could come across as a defense of Stevie (if she were indeed wearing a real fur).
The only statement I was trying to make, is that I think it's pretty safe to assume that it was not real. Practically a "given thing," if you will.
And that is why I can't understand why some people are so upset about this, without any true knowledge whether it's real or fake.

I don't think the wearing of faux fur gives the appearance that you condone the killing of animals, nor do I feel that it's inherently risking controversy if you don't come right out and announce it's faux.
So far I haven't heard one single statement in the press from Animal Rights activists, in regards to this appearance. Apparently they know when something is worth getting into a frenzy over.

And if Stevie was wearing a real fur, I would be disappointed... I'd even write a letter to her in regards to the matter... but that's as far as it would go.

I'm the kind of person who does not feel the need to shove my beliefs, values, and morals, down someone else's throat.
I will most definitely speak my mind, and let my feelings known, but I think people are more likely to listen to you, and be open to your opinions, if you don't attack them and brow-beat them.

Oh, and by the way... Stevie is not my "idol."
I can't think of anyone I idolize. I do, however, admire her greatly.
She's made some "mistakes" over the years, but who hasn't? It's not my place to sit in judgement of her, nor is it my place to put her up on some impossible pedestal.
She's a human-being, and the fact that she has successfully battled some pretty powerful demons, and that she's been rich and famous for nearly 30 years now, while remaining courteous and gracious towards her fans, is something worth admiring, in my book.
Originally posted by CarneVaca
I'm pretty sure all the people who say they don't care about she was wearing would have something to say if she showed up in thong and pasties. No one wants to address that question, which tells me I may be on to something. Not to sound snippy, because I really don't mean it that way, but I just figured your comment was so preposterous it didn't warrant a response.
I'm actually surprised to hear that you genuinely expected one.


(And for the record, I don't kill spiders or any other insects either.)

[CarneVaca]

Easy there, Johnny Stew. See? I suspected you ultimately agree with me, anyway.

I'm not trying to force my beliefs on anyone, believe me. It is up to each individual to see things for him/herself and decide on his/her own course. And that is why I said from the beginning that if Stevie wants to wear fur, that's up to her. But it does damage my view of her, which believe it or not, is still mostly positive.

As for the pasties-and-thong comment, yes it may seem preposterous. But think about it: How many people would shrug and say she can wear whatever she wants if she did that? I suspect not too many.

The point: Wearing fur is obscene to some. Just as wearing pasties and thongs might be obscene to others.

And, Dreamr, methinks you're confusing the law with morality. The law is theoretically based on ethics. Morality is something different. The question is, regardless of the law, is it moral to trap an animal specifically for the fur?

[SmthngOfADreamr]

Originally posted by CarneVaca
The law is theoretically based on ethics. Morality is something different. The question is, regardless of the law, is it moral to trap an animal specifically for the fur?

But ethics is pretty much the basis for moral rules in our society. Don't act like ethics and moraltiy are not connected. And the problem with both is that they are subjective, and because of that we'll never be able to say what is definately right or wrong. It's a personal choice. And if you're asking for my personal opinions, no I don't think it's moral to trap an animal specificlaly for the fur. And besides the fact that I would look rediculous, I would never wear a fur coat myself because I don't think it's right. But why should I infringe upon other people's right to choose and decide their own morals. The other problem I have with all if this is I don't see how it's any more humane to kill cows for food and jackets or shoes. I know before you justified this by saying we use the whole cow, but does that really make it right? Maybe yes, maybe no. It's subjective, and that's all I'm trying to say.

[DeeGeMe]

Is it morally acceptable to kill an animal for its fur? No. Absolutely not. I would ban hunting for anything if I could. I personally think that hunting and trapping are only fair when the wild animals are equipped with guns & traps too.

Do I own anything made of fur? No, but then again, I live in South Carolina so staying warm isn't something I worry much about. I also adore dogs of almost any variety and wouldn't dream of skinning my own puppy or the neighbor's cat and wearing it as a fashion accessory.

Do I own leather shoes and purses? Yes. Love them and actively seek out leather & suede anything. I also eat meat, chicken, and pork, but I will carry a spider or insect outside instead of killing it (unless it's a fire ant--all fire ants must die--immediately if not sooner)!

I guess that makes me a woman of contradictions, and perhaps Stevie is too. I think she's entitled to wear what she wants to wear.

I'm an "old-school" fan and I remember back in the day that she used to wear a fur jacket on stage during "Landslide", until it was stolen from backstage during a concert, that is. Whether that particular jacket was real, I have no idea, but animal rights and anti-fur movements didn't exist in the 70's so I'm assuming that it probably was real.

And let's play devil's advocate here for a minute--what did we want her to wear when it was 30 degrees outside--a down jacket?

Can you actually picture Stevie wearing something so mundane as a down jacket? I'm still not over the ugly-ass shoes she was wearing, I don't think I could have stood seeing her in a down coat too!

And why aren't we jumping all over Lindsey for wearing a leather coat? Don't cows have rights? Or have we decided as a group to give Stevie hell for wearing fur and Lindsey hell for playing & singing out of tune (and therefore don't have time to harp on his clothing choices).

[CarneVaca]

Morality is subjective, but the law isn't. At least not theoretically. Arguing that it's OK to do something because it's not breaking the law misses the point of this whole fur issue. That was my point.

Now, once again:

If you're going to eat the fox, fine, then I would encourage you to definitely keep the pelt. Why discard it? It would be wasteful.

I opposed wearing fur for vanity.

You kill the cow and you eat it. You use the skin. What's the problem here? What is the moral equivalent between this and killing an animal specifically for the skin?

I think these points have been made, and we're beginning to circle back, so I am going to take myself out of this discussion now.

[SmthngOfADreamr]

Originally posted by CarneVaca
I think these points have been made, and we're beginning to circle back, so I am going to take myself out of this discussion now.

We all need to let it die because there is no right answer. I said before this arguement could go on for decades.

But just to let you know I understand where you're coming from about the vanity issue. It makes sense, and I do agree with that. :D The problem is other people don't feel that way, and that's where this argument starts over and over again.... :shrug:

[dissention]

Originally posted by paleshadow
I think it's great that people feel so pasionately about this, but morality is subjective. To say something is moraly wrong is to imply that your morals are the standard. This is a big world, and there are many cultures and belief systems that do not comply with our own, as a country or personally. To say that someone should be required to answer to anyone who asks them why they wear anything is ridiculous just because you don't like it. If someone came up to me on the streat and said "Excuse me, but what gives you the right to wear that" I would reply "I'm sorry, but I missed the part where you explained why it was any of your business". This is America, so you do have the right to express that you don't like something, but as long as someone isn't breaking the law (remember, moral law is subjective unless you have a red phone that dials God direct) then no one is "required" to explain their actions to anyone. I don't really buy the "desensitized" comment about killing in regards to fur trapping or wearing. If anything, we have become super sensitized to these type of things. Since man began walking on two feet we have primarily been a carnivorous, skin/fur wearing people. I think that people should understand eachothers differences, and respect them rather than just try to change them. Passion is great, but not when it deteriorates into a false sense of moral supremacy.

Well, when someone skins a human being and wears their carcass out on the town, you have NO right to question them for their fashion sense or lack thereof. After all, morals are subjective.

Gimme a break. It is morally wrong to kill just to make yourself look good. There is a big difference with being carnivorous (aka eating meat) and skinning the hides of innocent animals just to wear them and no other purpose. That's what we have winter coats made out of cotton and vinyl.

Why kill when it isn't necessary?