Illume Question

[DrummerDeanna]

So....it says "smelling Nag Champra"....I was sure this stuff was called Nag Champa....I have a box of Nag Champa...and so I'm confused...is there another kind called Champra?

[Gypsy-Rhiannon]

Nope... it is definately Nag Champa... there is even a box of it on the table in the picture of the cd liner notes! And the lyrics on the Nicksfix says Nag Champa.... could it be a copyright issue?

Pip

[DrummerDeanna]

How odd...this is going to drive me nuts!!! The lyrics in the liner notes of my LE cd...as well as just the way it sounds definetly is "Nag Champra".....I guess it could be a copyright thing....I don't know...but by Kracky! I want to get to the bottom of this hehe...

[Gypsy-Rhiannon]

Perhaps a good question for Ask Stevie? LOL

Pip

[sulamith]

It's driving me nuts, too!

I use Nag CHAMPA all the time, and as much as I adore Ill-loo-may, it sort of interupts the flow of the song for me.

Is it just one of Stevie's wierd speech things she does sometimes?
Like "drownded", or how on the FM Live CD Rhiannon on the first verse she says "Free-annon"??

Maybe you are on to something with the copyright thing, and maybe that is why she changed the pronunciation of the candle name to Ill-loo-may??

I burn Illume candles all the time, and I even saw an interview on the House Beautiful show with the lady who founded that company, and she doesn't say Ill-loo-may.

When I first heard her say Ill-loo-may and nag champra, I was like, WTF??

-Sharon

[FiercestCalmSea]

If you type "Nag Champra" into Google or something..stuff comes up..apparently it can be spelled both ways..but..for god's sake..there was a box of it on the table..and she spelled it nag champa in the poem..sheesh...as for Illume..i just DON'T know,lol..only Stevie :)

[gypsysara]

Too funny! :laugh:

I was wondering if anyone noticed that too... wasnt sure if I should mention it or not. My box is Nag Champa at home, lol!

Good thread!:)

[sara1998]

hehehe....

I'm glad I'm not the only Stevie fan who burns Nag Champa incence...

Hubby and my friends think I've gone off the deep end with this.

Anyway, yes, it's a bit unnerving the way she says champra... but I like the Il-LOOM-ey. I coulda never fit the word into a sentence.

Going to bed now to Il-LOOM-ey my candles...

Maria

[DrummerDeanna]

Originally posted by sara1998
hehehe....

I'm glad I'm not the only Stevie fan who burns Nag Champa incence...


Maria

Nope...I LOVE it...in fact, after finding it, I refuse to burn any other incence...I've become an incence snob! LOL...

[Gypsy-Rhiannon]

I love Nag Champa but I also love Cinammon and Vanilla

Pip

[DrummerDeanna]

Originally posted by FiercestCalmSea
If you type "Nag Champra" into Google or something..stuff comes up..apparently it can be spelled both ways..but..for god's sake..there was a box of it on the table..and she spelled it nag champa in the poem..sheesh...as for Illume..i just DON'T know,lol..only Stevie :)

I tried that...and it asked me if I meant "Nag Champa" lol..the other stuff was a bunch of weird stuff that I couldn't figure out...

[gldstwmn]

One of the things I have loved about our Miss Nicks is her artistic license with the English language. Illume' caught me off guard, as well. As far as the Nag Champra, it works for me. It's her art, so it gets to be whatever she wants it to be, like whatever she says at the end of the live Sisters Of The Moon or what she says during the Red Rocks version of No Spoken Word. It's what makes her Stevie. Now I just wish Fleetwood Mac would loosen up the set list a little.

[glitter-fades]

Stevie takes more artistic license with the English language than anyone in the universe! She uses erroneous pronunciation, incorrect spelling, and faulty definitions.

(Singing)
Oooo...the list...it is never ending.
Oooo...and the earache...never goes away.

LOL! :laugh:

Damn, that woman drives me nuts with her lyrics at times. I've been cutting her slack ever since Landslide came out. I was in college then, and I've come to love the song over the years, but it was hard for me to accept it at first. The lyrics sounded so wise and profound except that it drove me nuts since they actually describe an avalanche (if you're talking about snow covered hills) and not a landslide. Too picky, you say?

The mispronunciation of Illume could have been fixed by changing the word to Illumine in order to preserve the syllables and the beat. In Smile at You, I can't deal with the awful grammar in the chorus. When I hear that I think, why not change it to "I should have turned away again"? I hear it that way when I'm listening because I just can't deal with it the other way.

I know la Nicks hates to have her words changed. Damn it, Stevie! You don't want people to keep thinking you're illiterate, do you? :eek:

[DrummerDeanna]

Someone in another post said that Nag Champra is a legitimate spelling...but I want a source!

I know Stevie takes license with the language sometimes, I have also come to terms with it, though as a journalism major it drives me NUTS sometimes....like in RTTG..which I LOVE...she says towards....that has become acceptable in the English language, but the correct usage is Toward...no s....lol...things like that...why do I care? the music is still great...oh well...I still love her....

[gypsysara]

Champra could be the same as Illume. They are both pronounced a bit differently than the "norm".

Im soooo in love with Illume...

[sarahw]

what do these smell like?

[bookie29]

I have a friend that works in the "Old Timers" ward in a nursing home. What he means is Altzheimers! It cracks me up because he keeps saying it even though it is posted on the wall right outside the ward.

Another one is that a lady I work with was talking about people with very pale skin, reddish hair, and pinkish eyes. She called them "Al Bunions". She meant Albino.

Maybe Nag Champa/Ra is Stevie's Old Timers?

Sean

[tamaraluvsFM]

I have never heard of Nag Champra candles. Can someone explain what they are like?


Tamara :wavey:

[DrummerDeanna]

Nag Champa/Champra is incense...though I have seen Nag candles as well...I'm only familiar with the incense...and I really cannot describe its scent....I find it unique to Nag...and I love it....this was probably not helpful at all....sorry..

[gypsysara]

Ive never heard of Nag Champa candles, but that sound great! Id love to get one. I burn candles all the time too.

[sarahw]

Nag Champa/Champra is incense...though I have seen Nag candles as well...I'm only familiar with the incense...and I really cannot describe its scent....I find it unique to Nag...and I love it....this was probably not helpful at all....sorry..

thanks for trying to describe the scent....I love candles, but some set off my allergies!

[strandinthewind]

Now -

If we could just know the definitions of "point dume" (sp.?) and what she means when she says "I am a cliff dweller from the old school."

I am clueless as to "point dume." But, I think "I am a cliff dweller from the old school" refers somehow to her age and the fact that she remembers Vietnam. In fact she referred to Vietnam in her first letter to the troops in the "first" Gulf War. Note: this is pure speculation.

Also, which coastal city is she talking about. The possibilities I see are L.A., where she's got a "movie star view" and perhaps can see the lights of the city blend into the ocean. Or, perhaps she is referring to NYC. However, I have never been able to see either river from the Waldorf Astoria and I have stayed on some of the highest of the floors. My bet is she is talking about L.A. because that was where she was alone with her thoughts after the TISL tour.

[FiercestCalmSea]

"I am a cliff dweller from the old school"


I agree..she is "old school" age wise...and cliff dweller...well,isn't her house on a cliff or mountain or something in L.A.?? As for Point Dume..i dunno..lol...

[nae]

Originally posted by strandinthewind
Now -

If we could just know the definitions of "point dume" (sp.?) and what she means when she says "I am a cliff dweller from the old school."

I am clueless as to "point dume." But, I think "I am a cliff dweller from the old school" refers somehow to her age and the fact that she remembers Vietnam. In fact she referred to Vietnam in her first letter to the troops in the "first" Gulf War. Note: this is pure speculation.

Also, which coastal city is she talking about. The possibilities I see are L.A., where she's got a "movie star view" and perhaps can see the lights of the city blend into the ocean. Or, perhaps she is referring to NYC. However, I have never been able to see either river from the Waldorf Astoria and I have stayed on some of the highest of the floors. My bet is she is talking about L.A. because that was where she was alone with her thoughts after the TISL tour.

Stevie is writing from her house in Malibu, Ca.~the coastal cities refer to the beach cities that line the coast to the South and Point Dume is an area of Malibu to the North.

Hope that helps.:wavey:

Nae

[strandinthewind]

Ah Ha!!!!!!!!

Light has been shed on this Point Dume issue!!!!!!

Dare we say it has been "illuminated" :cool: :laugh: :wavey: ;)

Also, I love the way "Point Dume" suggests a foreboding sense even though it is a real place. In other words, I think that because it is a homonym (sp?) with Doom, it adds to the darkness of the song as well as adds a dark (doom, black sky, image of a snake) and light (illume, lights, diamond snake) theme to the song.

I love her when she does things like this!!!!

[sulamith]

I think "I am a cliff dweller from the old school" is a really beautiful line. Some poeple have made fun of it, but I think they just don't understand it.

To me, she seems to be referring to the ancient races of people who were more in touch with the Earth and it's cycles than modern culture. It speaks of being connected and tapped into the life force of our ancestors, those cliff dwellers who watched the night skies and plotted the course of the heavenly lights.

Stevie has said before that she thinks she was a monk in a former life, someone who spent alot of time in montasteries, and that she is comfortable in those places. I think this is a reference to an old philosophy; a very old, wise way of looking at the world.

Stevie is an old soul. She has been here before.


I just love that line!

-Sharon

[miriamswell]

Weighing in with an "Illume" theory:

"Illume" is from the Latin "light" or "to light" depending on whether it is used as a noun or a verb. So in Spanish or French -- both Romance Languages, i.e. derived from Latin -- "illume" is "the light"or "to light" or a variation thereof.

I am going to comfort myself with the notion that Madam Stevie is multilingual. As for the frightening grammer in "Smile at You," could it be LB? If you look through his lyrics he tends to play fast and loose with language which he then disguises with his guitar.

~mim, dashing back to the shadows

[sulamith]

Hey mim!
Great to hear from you!

Come out of the shadows and play once in while, OK?

Stevie multilingual?
I'm not so sure about that! haha!
Not that I don't think she is smart, I just think she has her own brand of Stevie-speak!

I guess in that sense she is multilingual in her own little Stevieland. lol!

I think she just read the word off her candle.

-Sharon

[Bella Figura]

These are my speculations on Illume. Stevie probably wrote some of the poem for this song in her hotel room in Atlantic City a few days after 9/11, that's where she went after being at the Waldorf. In her hotel room, looking out on the Atlantic north towards the city. Here are my thoughts on how the song came to be:

"Illume says the candle that I burn
A reflection in the window" she may have beeno burning this incense candle in her new hotel room in Atlantic City, looking out the window and seeing also the candle reflection.

"The smell of Nag Champra" She's mentioned in some interview how at the Waldorf they had to put towels around the door to stop the burning smell. The sense of smell is one of our strongest memory triggers so she was probably thinking of both smells

"point dune" ...a point looking out towards the ocean, plus on clear nights you can see the city lights north of Atlantic City, she's gotten out but she's still very close to NYC

"cliff dweller from the old school" here she is watching history go down, being on a "comeback" TISL tour, Don and Tom talking her into staying on tour, being on the east coast, being away from her family. She was out of her California element.

"I like the coastal cities
I like the lights...
I like the way the ocean blends
Into the city at night
This coastline is glittering
Like a diamond snake
In a black sky" the lights of LA and the lights of NJ both being flat pieces of land are probably very similar but north from Atlantic City, on very clear nights you can see the lights of NY and it does look like a diamond bracelet. She was probably feeling very homesick...

"like living on a working river" I've mentioned this in another thread but here's where Stevie has a bit of magic because I doubt she knows the history of the Hudson but I do. the poem refers to the Atlantic ocean but also to a river, and the river which surrounds Manhatten is the Hudson River...the East River is really a branch of the Hudson. And the Hudson really is a working river. It is the waterpart of the largest port in the US, flowing into the Atlantic ocean at the bottom of Manhattan where the Twin Towers were. And up where I grew up, there was a major brick industry (during the 20's and 30's) which has built most of NY including the Empire State, they floated these bricks down the Hudson river to build NYC. Plus even further North and further back in time, timber was floated down that river to build the older NYC...so if she was able to see a river or any water from the Waldorf, she was seeing the Hudson River...so once more, Stevie is a seer.

"I'm alone now
With my thoughts
Of how we could make it
Of how we could get out"...even when she finally got out of Manhattan, the trauma did not leave her. even in her reflection, she was having post-traumatic stress. Plus she had an entourage from her tour that she must of felt responsible for, how was she going to make sure her people were safe. The hotel room in Atlantic City was probably the first time she had a chance to reflect by herself, alone.

"What I saw on this journey
I saw history go down
I cannot pretend
That the heartache falls away"...anyway, those are my reflections on this poem/song and the whole song was so tastefully done which is what makes it so beautiful and haunting. I hope my speculations help you enjoy the song even more...for me as a New Yorker myself, I, too, saw history go down and even to this day, I cannot pretend that the heartache falls away. Stevie and her premontions..."I need you to be there,Just remember when I am haunted,That I was just so scared" to me all of Stevie's music has always been a comfort to me...both now and in the past

[paleshadow]

i]Originally posted by Bella Figura [/i]
These are my speculations on Illume. Stevie probably wrote the poem for this song in her hotel room in Atlantic City a few days after 9/11, that's where she went after being at the Waldorf. In her hotel room, looking out on the Atlantic north towards the city.

Bella,

Actually, Illume was written on Oct. 11, 2001 when Stevie had returned to LA. If you read her journal entries about September 11th, it pretty much describes her thoughts and all the imagery in the poem. Check it out if you haven't already, it's really very touching.

http://www.nicksfix.com/stevies_journal.htm

[Bella Figura]

just went back and read the journals again ( I actually read them originally as she was writing them) and I was so surprised that Illume was completely written so late back in LA, I could have sworn she wrote the I won't trade you for jade or diamonds line much earlier. It is quite amazing how she traveled the length and breadth of the US those days following the attacks. She saw all our reactions, the heartache did not go away the further she traveled...

but to me, the poem still remains a reflection of those immediate days after the attack. The ideas, thoughts and phrases were probably already starting to gel after getting out and getting to Atlantic City... perhaps looking out at the lights of LA probably reminded her of those times, bringing it all back...the time she was looking at the coastal cities of the East...

for me, I especially remember driving into the city that Friday night, the night Stevie was to play at Radio City, driving down the highway and first seeing in the distance the diamond bracelet that is Manhattan, then crossing the GW bridge and looking down to the tip of Manhattan which I had always done and not seeing the towers there. just smoke...

[gypsysara]

Bella ~ I remember Stevie's sheer relief to be back in LA at the last night of the TISL tour. She spoke of what she'd, what EVERYONE had been through, and no doubt in my opinion ~ Illume was already taking some shape or form in her lyrics. I have no doubt her heartache didnt go away - the trauma of the event itself is everlasting in some ways. While perhaps it has subsided now, no doubt it will never be forgotten. So while IMO it has definite LA references, she was likely formulating the song in bits and pieces before she shared it with us. (just my $0.02)

One thing though ~ "Like a diamond snake in a black sky" is also in Destiney Rules in addition to Illume. So who knows why the duplication or the origination of that phrase.

[gypsysara]

I was in Sedona last weekend for Memorial Day and went into a cute artsey type collection of shops by Oak Creek. There was this great candle shop and I spent time looking through it of course (being someone who likes candles). Much to my surprise and delight I saw candles called and labeled ILLUME!!!!!!!!

Likely no connection... but still..

Illume... says the candle that I burn

[gypsysara]

In fact... just found this link...



http://www.illumecandles.com/

[belladonna.]

Originally posted by DrummerDeanna
Nope...I LOVE it...in fact, after finding it, I refuse to burn any other incence...I've become an incence snob! LOL...

LMAO!! thats SO funny, i too have become an incense snob...nag champa is the only kind ill even look at anymore!!
im so glad i read this thread, i had been wondering about the way she spelled/said it in the song as well...glad to know theres others wondering the same thing as me, & im not crazy. :laugh:

[DrummerDeanna]

lol...nice! another incense snob....anyway...it is nice to know that others are wondering the same thing...I thought maybe I was not as informed about incense as I thought...which I'm thinking may still be the case....Sooo...has anyone heard about Champa vs. Champra? What's the deal?

[gypsysara]

I had a storm in my heart last night (whats new there, lol)... was driving around by the ocean, listening to Illume... and checked the time. It was 9:11. *twilight zone*

[Bella Figura]

yep, that song keeps getting better and better each time you listen to it!!!

[belladonna.]

Originally posted by Bella Figura
yep, that song keeps getting better and better each time you listen to it!!!
it DOES! and you know, i read a review in blender i think...& they called that song an embarrasment! WTF? :eek: :confused:

[Mad4stevie]

I really do love this song.

These lyrics:

"I'm alone now
With my thoughts
Of how we could make it
Of how we could get out"...


The first few times I heard them, it made me think that this part of the song was written from the point of view of people inside the Twin Towers. The isolation - the fear - the desperation - that they must have felt trying to escape. It seems especially poignant when Stevie belts this part out near the end of the song.

[Sugar]

This is one of my favorites off of SYW. I know they're not doing this live, but can't you just hear Stevie goin' all "Sisters Of The Moon" at the end of this song? ;)

And yeah, those lyrics are Stevie's imagining what she would have done if she were in the Towers. I mean, who didn't wonder what they would have done, over and over playing it in your head, just like how this part repeats itself in the song, over and over...

Yeah...this is a good one...

[GardenStateGirlie]

As far as Stevie's pronunciation of various words and phrases such as (nag champ(r)a), it's always been pretty obvious to me that she has a bit of a speech impediment of sorts...nothing major, just a little thing. If you listen closely to some of her interviews, you can hear it come out occassionally. I mean, seriously, anyone who can't pronounce her name "Stephanie" as a child and starts calling herself "Teedee" has a little bit of a problem, don't you think? I think whoever typed up the liner notes maybe thought Stevie mispelled champa because she says "champra" on the album. Anyone else think maybe the same thing??

[Bella Figura]

I'm sure everyone has some quirks in their speech, being from the Bronx and both of my parents being Irish, I still sometimes pronounce sandwich as "sangwich". Otherwise, we'd sound like robots.

"how we could make it
how we could get out"..."

not only does it make me cry for those souls lost in the Towers but the whole downtown of NYC was in chaos that day, everyone was trying to get out. My cousin works about four blocks from the towers and ended up walking over the Brooklyn Bridge...she ended up walking over six hours that day to make it back home.

[strandinthewind]

Also, in the SYW boolet on the two disc set, on background of the page that contains most of Illume is a picture of the ocean with the moon over it. I wonder if that is Point Dume (sp?).?

[GardenStateGirlie]

Originally posted by strandinthewind
Also, in the SYW boolet on the two disc set, on background of the page that contains most of Illume is a picture of the ocean with the moon over it. I wonder if that is Point Dume (sp?).?

I think it may indeed be Point Dume :nod:

You know what else I love about this song?? How it starts off in the left speaker and then jumps to the right speaker...I dunno...I like that a lot.

[gypsysara]

I used to have an impediment when I was growing up, way little. Instead of "Heather" Id say "Heater" (not heater, more like het-er), Id miss the "th" sound... so while I agree she does have nuiances, like I do myself, Im not sure she has an actual impediment. Just my $0.02, but I know what your saying from your perspective.

Ahhhh I love Illume!

[DrummerDeanna]

Hmmm...interesting theory on the impediment...but I'm not too sure on that either, well at least I've never really noticed it...but most kids have a hard time with parts of speech...so the TeeDee thing isn't too strange...my sister couldn't pronounce her name "Christine" she called herself "Kiki" and it ended up sticking lol...but yeah...I'll have to pay more attention to Stevie's speech now lol....

[Johnny Stew]

Originally posted by Bella Figura
I'm sure everyone has some quirks in their speech, being from the Bronx and both of my parents being Irish, I still sometimes pronounce sandwich as "sangwich".My family oftens refers to sandwiches as "sangwiches" too.
I always thought it was an Italian thing, but you're Irish, and we're nowhere near the Bronx! :laugh:

[Bella Figura]

well, I know it's a Bronx thing for sure, but I've also heard people from Brooklyn do it too and when I was in Ireland a few years ago, alot of my Irish relatives did it as well...so my theorey is that it must have immagrated from Ireland to New York...so even though your're Italian, your ancestors might have learned English from an Irish person and that's how they picked up the "sangwich" thing!!!

My hubby is Italian and also from the Bronx but he doesn't say "sangwich". however, he's always said "how ya doin" prior to Joey from Friends making it popular :)

[chiliD]

Originally posted by Bella Figura
however, he's always said "how ya doin" prior to Joey from Friends making it popular :)


I remember Joe Walsh popularizing the "How you doin'?" line far before NBC even THOUGHT of "Must See TV".

[DrummerDeanna]

Nope...Sangwich isn't just an Irish/Italian/Bronx thing...I grew up in New Mexico....and like TONS of people say sangwich...like all sorts of people....hahaha....there is a large Mexican population here...so yeah...maybe it's all over thing ;) I've never understood it quite honestly....I mean...there's no "g" in the word...where does the pronunciation of sangwich come from?