Not Make Believe vs. Silver Girl

[nightbird28]

The only stevie song on the new cd that I'm not too fond of is "Silver girl" and I just downloaded "Not Make Believe" and as different as the song is sound wise. I think it would have made a better choice to be on the album.

I loved even the Shangri-la demo version of the song but the SYW version just amazing and I would have liked to see it on the regular release of the cd instead of the limited edition.

Also does anyone know where I can download the mp3 of love minus zero?

[tothegypsy]

I've actually really started to love Silver Girl, and to be honest I find the lyrics to Not Make Believe rather embarassing.

[goldie]

What do you mean by "embarrassing?"

I also agree that NMB should have been included instead of Silver Girl. Didn't Stevie say somewhere recently where they don't tell each other how to do their songs, etc....well, I think Lindsey should have told her where to put this song!! LOL Unless maybe he really likes it? I just can't get over how it got on the album! But...I haven't really listened to that particular song on me too much....the "million bucks" drives me crazy.

[BlueGrass]

Well, I like "Silver Girl"...and "Illume" is my least fav song on the album. Song doesn't make sense, how is it about 9/11 besides her singing "All of the trauma"?

[sparky]

[QUOTE]Originally posted by goldie
[B]What do you mean by "embarrassing?"

I think these lyrics are incredibly embarrasing. Every line is an absolute cliche. Stevie is so far beyond this type of metaphor use. A twelve year old writes in their journal about a river being "like" anything (Illume), and the kind of tired, obvious things that are mentioned in "NMB". Using phrases like "a thief on the night" and "It was the best of times, it was the worst of times"...how recycled are these lines? You would think after 54 years she would be able to come up with a NEW way of expressing common feelings. She CAN do it. When she doesn't, it makes me cringe. She's better than that.

[wondergirl9847]

I like the production of the song, Silver Girl, but the lyrics...ooh..not that great. PLUS, knowing this is about Sheryl makes me feel ill. "She was a girlie girl"...Sheryl doesn't look or act like a girlie girl at all, IMO, plus, that's just NOT a good line anyways. I wish they had put Space Needle on instead of this song. I don't HATE it or DESPISE it or anything, I'm just disappointed in the lyrics.

Space Needle would have fit PERFECTLY in with the darkness of the album...and I LOVE Space Needle!!

[estranged4life]

that "Girlie Girl" in "Silver Girl" ranks up there with the lyric "the forgotten chimpanzee" from the song "Jane" from "Street Angel" as a plain goofy-assed lyric...lol...Brian J.

[DownOnRodeo]

Originally posted by wondergirl9847
"She was a girlie girl"...Sheryl doesn't look or act like a girlie girl at all
I know - the whole song is non sequitir Stevie at her best (er, worst)

Originally posted by wondergirl9847

Space Needle would have fit PERFECTLY in with the darkness of the album...and I LOVE Space Needle!!
Nooo! Out of the frying pan into the inferno!! (It's not that I think Space Needle is a bad song.... I think it's @#$%!! ;) sorry to Space Needle fans!

Originally posted by estranged4life
that "Girlie Girl" in "Silver Girl" ranks up there with the lyric "the forgotten chimpanzee" from the song "Jane" from "Street Angel" as a plain goofy-assed lyric...lol...Brian J.
lmao!! I really laughed when I read that! It's so true... Those lyrics just make you really groan.... :distress:


Not Make Believe is tops!! It's a travesty not so much that it's not on this album but that it's relegated to the limited edition thing... It should be at least on the next album.:o

[sparky]

[QUOTE]Originally posted by wondergirl9847
I like the production of the song, Silver Girl, but the lyrics. PLUS, knowing this is about Sheryl makes me feel ill. "She was a girlie girl"...Sheryl doesn't look or act like a girlie girl at all, IMO, plus, that's just NOT a good line anyways. I wish they had put Space Needle on instead of this song.

Christy, you ROCK, and I totally agree with you one the production..I do love Sheryl, and that reference doesn't make me ill. But, the girlie girl thing. Ugh. Gimme a break. Sheryl is such a guy girl ! Even if you don't like her - she can sing, write, produce, play many instruments, and rock like nuts. How many women out there can boast her talents, even if you don't like her ? I don't want to get in a Sheryl debate, but so many people are rubbed the wrong way by her. The fact is, there are very few woman ROCKERS who have that many skills. Who are the women out there who rock at all today?

I am sick as hell of looking at her - as sexy as I think she is - she is way too over exposed. But, who else is out there who can do so much ?

IMO - she really got some incredible stuff out of Stevie. The falsetto on "Sorcerer" ? I would have put money down that I would never hear that voice again.

And I LOVE "Space Needle". Why oh why was this not done ????

[Phil]

I'm with you on this tothegypsy. Whilst I don't yet love "Silver Girl", I've become rather fond of it and believe me, I didn't think this would be the case due to the sub-standard lyrics. They do, however, seem to make some kind of sense within the context of the actual music.
As for "Not Make Believe", I always despised this as a demo and while I concede that Lindsey's production is more persuasive, the lyrics are incredibly bad eg "It hurts my self-esteem" - that line alone is enough to induce vomiting and needless to say, is in my opinion, far worse than "girlie girl".
I agree that "Space Needle" may have been a worthwhile inclusion but it too contained some cringeworthy lyrics ("We gotta get out of this place..." etc). If this song was to be seriously considered for release, it would need a major overhaul in terms of editing.

[secondhandchain]

I agree 100 percent. "Not Make Believe" is such a cool song. It has that Lindsey experimentation sound that I love. Kind of like the B-sides to TANGO. But my choice to go would be RTTG. I love Stevie, but her vocals on that song are everything that annoyed me about her in the mid 80's early 90's. Sorry

[darklinensuit]

Silver Girl. It reminds me of a more vocally mature Real Tears.
NMB has this un-Stevie contemporary sound that reminds me of Love Changes, my least favorite track on TISL. And I agree that the lyrics are beneath her.
As I posted recently, my best choice would have been Lady from the Mountain (or She Loves him Still).

- Jake

[Johnny Stew]

I really think that "Silver Girl" IS a good song ("girlie-girl" lyric and all), but that they just missed the boat production-wise.

No, it would never be a "classic," but I think if they had gone with a more upbeat, lighthearted, quirkier kind of arrangement, the song would have been far more effective.

I'm sure it would have been my least favorite of this particular batch of Stevie's songs either way, but I think it would have been better overall.

[Phil]

Just while I think of it, didn't Stevie comment that when she handed the "17 demos" to Lindsey prior to commencing the TISL Tour, only two of them were actually considerations for the TISL album? If so, those two would be "Thrown Down" and "Not Make Believe" which would mean that "Space Needle", "Annabel Lee" (my personal favourite - a FM song if ever there was one!) and "Have No Heart" were not even submitted.

[strandinthewind]

Originally posted by wondergirl9847
I wish they had put Space Needle on instead of this song.

. . .

Space Needle would have fit PERFECTLY in with the darkness of the album...and I LOVE Space Needle!!

I totally agree. Space Needle is right up there in my opinion with Sara and Storms in terms of painting a picture, creating a longing feeling in the listener, etc. I am completely surprised it was not on this record. But - hey, they never called me for my opinion :laugh:

Having said that, I do not mind and in fact rather like Silver Girl. My only "problem" (here I go again ;) ) is the repetition of the same lyrics six or seven times at the end of the song (blah blah blah soul). I hate it when they do that. Its sort of like in the song SYW, where we have the great first two happy stanzas and then they repeat the chorus like eight times. What is up with that. Couldn't she have come up with one more section of happy lyrics :D :) :mad:

[joe]

i didn't like "silver girl" at first....but it only took a few times and i really like it now....the lyrics get overshadowed by the music for me....the chorus really sticks in my head...i really don't think it's a bad song...it's got a unique mood to it.

i haven't heard "not make believe" yet but i know what you guys mean about her lyrics....i don't know what's going on with her sometimes...she really has moved into a quite literal stage with her lyrics. i cringe a few times too.

overall, i like every song of Stevie's on the record....actually, i'd go as far as saying that i like them more than TISL...for some reason, i feel that a lot of people on this board aren't as pleased with the material as they had hoped. oh well. i think the album is great and FM should take a lot of pride in it.

"running through the garden" reminds me of what i liked about stevie in the older days...it's got a LOT of energy and her vocal shows it...i'm so glad they decided to use this song. i don't know why it's getting such a bad rap.

???

[tothegypsy]

Yes for me, lyrics like "it hurts my feelings, it hurts my self-esteem...it was the best of times, it was the worst of times" are just so cliched and rehashed that they make the song unworthy of being on the actual album for me.

Sure, "girlie girl" might be a little silly, but I can't say I've heard it in a song 1200 times before. And it doesn't sound like Stevie wrote it write after watching Oprah and Dr. Phil, which is what Not Make Believe sounds like to me. To be fair though, I do enjoy the production and instrumentation on Not Make Believe.

[blinker12]

To my ears, both "Not Make Believe" and "Silver Girl" are pretty standard-issue Stevie songs. Not terrible, but not great either. Certainly, with lines like the ones people have already mentioned, it doesn't seem that Stevie was taking much care with the lyrics. ("It hurts my self-esteem/It hurts my everything" is a particular groaner.)
That said, I would have preferred "Not Make Believe" to "Silver Girl." First of all, I think the chorus is a little catchier. Also, I like Lindsey's production on NMB better. It's crisper and less blobby _ more guitars, fewer synths.
Both songs benefit enormously from John and Mick's rhythm playing. Their bass and drums give the songs what little backbone they have.
If I had to speculate on why "Silver Girl" beat out "Not Make Believe" _ I bet Stevie campaigned for the former. It probably has more personal meaning to her, and she probably wanted to make sure her tribute to Sheryl got out to the public.

[Christopher]

Originally quoted by Joe:
"running through the garden" reminds me of what i liked about stevie in the older days...it's got a LOT of energy and her vocal shows it...i'm so glad they decided to use this song. i don't know why it's getting such a bad rap.

I LOVE RTTG!!! I agree totally JOE-This song soooo reminds me of mid 80's Stevie without sounding completely retro..It sorta reminds me of 80's new wave-with Lindseys punky arrangement and punctuated guitar licks. And Stevie really brings the lyrics to the table on this- I think they are among her best!! This one is my favorite SYW track at the moment. And I agree w/ you, even though I hate to compare her songs here to her songs on TISL(and that CD was fantastic!)...I Think her 10 songs here are better than TISL as a whole!...I also love the way Lindsey has got her out of that slow to mid-tempo arena she meanders in alot....
I love the snappy tempo in : Thrown Down, Say You Will & Destiny Rules. Running through the Garden rocks!, Everybody Finds Out is outright danceable. & Illume has that incredible funky Mcvie bass w/ wild percussion splashes...that match the quirkiness of Stevies lyrics and delivery. I just love the diversity of all her tracks!!the only song that really really had a pulse on TISL was FFG.

Not Make Believe is pretty good.....but not great, kinda like Silver Girl- its really a toss up as far as which one I think should have made the CD- I suspect because Stevie already has a good 5 up-tempo songs coupled w/ the fact that it was inspired by Sheryl somewhat.Stevie probably lobbied to make sure this one made the cut ...Howerver, I would take both of these songs over at least 2 songs that come to mind on TISL: TMMS & TFFT.

[Bella Figura]

I'm really still in the enjoyment phase of the new album and not ready to objectively critique it. But I'll vote for Silver Girl...the music is not pure rock, not pure disco, not pure punk but a unique blend of all. I am really enjoying Lindsey's musical experiments, not every song should have a "pop" single vibe.

I do like the silver-girl, girlie-girl, danger girl references and Midas touch, Lady luck, a million bucks: They prove good rhyming continuity...

You have to take girlie-girl in context to the next sentence...caught in a man's world. And what woman hasn't felt that twinge of anger once in awhile??

the only phrase to me is the "She would have preferred the last generation" which is an awkward way of saying "i was born tooo late".

[macmar71]

Personally, I really like both these songs and feel they are done quite well.

[macko814]

Does anyone know how to get Love Minus Zero on mp3?

[strandinthewind]

Although I really do not care the song (NMB) solely because I subjectively do not like the trite lyrics at all, I will say her voice sounds fantastic on the finished song.

[estranged4life]

like the song "Silver Girl" but I prefer "Not Make Believe"...Brian J.

[goldie]

Originally posted by sparky
[QUOTE]Originally posted by goldie
[B]What do you mean by "embarrassing?"

I think these lyrics are incredibly embarrasing. Every line is an absolute cliche. Stevie is so far beyond this type of metaphor use. A twelve year old writes in their journal about a river being "like" anything (Illume), and the kind of tired, obvious things that are mentioned in "NMB". Using phrases like "a thief on the night" and "It was the best of times, it was the worst of times"...how recycled are these lines? You would think after 54 years she would be able to come up with a NEW way of expressing common feelings. She CAN do it. When she doesn't, it makes me cringe. She's better than that.


Ok.....then I absolutely agree with you. But I think I am more embarrassed by SG than NMB. She used to be SO good at expressing her feelings....what the hell happened?

[DownOnRodeo]

That's weird about the 'it hurts my self esteem' lyric - I really liked it, and it wasn't at all cliche - you guys must say it more in the States :D :confused: The only groanworthy lyric in MB for me is the Tale of Two Cities quote. :rolleyes:

Anyway, I don't really dislike Silver Girl that much - it's a very pretty song. And I can see how having the very upbeat NMB would be robbing the album of a particular generic element.

But can we at least agree on one thing - I don't know the exact reason, but Stevie's voice sounds better on NMB than on anything else on the album - she sounds about twenty years younger. Is it just me?? I think this must have been recorded much earlier in the SYW process.

[strandinthewind]

Originally posted by DownOnRodeo


But can we at least agree on one thing - I don't know the exact reason, but Stevie's voice sounds better on NMB than on anything else on the album - she sounds about twenty years younger. Is it just me?? I think this must have been recorded much earlier in the SYW process.

I know - Compare that voice in NMB to the part in Silver Girl where she goes higher when singing "she would have preferred the last generation," which, in my opinion, she does not do very well (she is borderline flat). Yet, on NMB she is at least that high and does it great. :confused:

[gldstwmn]

Originally posted by estranged4life
that "Girlie Girl" in "Silver Girl" ranks up there with the lyric "the forgotten chimpanzee" from the song "Jane" from "Street Angel" as a plain goofy-assed lyric...lol...Brian J.

Actually it reminds me of "let's go down to the laundromat." Space Needle, although written before 9/11 is the quintissential 9/11 song, another of Stevie's premonitions. All The Beautiful Worlds would have been nice too.

[deribish]

Silver Girl gets some REAL improvement on the 5.1 version. There are these beach Boy-esque harmony vocal line that are NOT in the stereo version. They REALLY make the song sonically more interesting than it is on the album version. Kinda cool hearing all those Stevie voice building vocal-castles in the background. Kinda like they did on Brown Eyes.
-Derek

[DownOnRodeo]

Mmm, that kills me to think what the Tusk DVD-A would sound like...

[ejof17]

You are all so harsh! I like Silver Girl. While it is certainly not her best writing on this album, I think her tonal quality and clarity is fantastic and I love to sing along with her on this track. She made the lyrics sound very interesting, while they are quite simple. Stevie is an artist, so doesn't set out to try to purposefully write deep lyrics, if she did that all the time, we would have deep lyrics. She had a vision of Sheryl in her mind and she knows her better than any of us do, I would say....she took that knowledge of her girlfriend and penned a touchingly cute tribute. I think it is lovely.