I just bought Peacekeeper

[deribish]

Am I the only one here who did this as soon as it was up for sale?

Anyway - for $1.50 - it sounds amazing and made my day!

And now it says on fleetwoodmac.com that the single doesn't go on sale until tomorrow... that's odd.

But I do have the link to buy it directly:
http://payloadz.com/corp/fleetwoodmac/mp3_single.asp

-Derek

[jwys_soapbox]

I don't understand. Do you literally have it or are you going to be able to download it starting tomorrow? There was no link to the URL you gave from the FM site, how did you get it?

John

[deribish]

I actaully have it downloaded. I must have gotten thru somekind of loophole. they changed the site/link shortly after I purchased it. Anyway - it sounds amazing. You can hear so much more detail in this version. Stevie "sings" thru one channel/speaker, and Lindsey sings thru the other. Nice stereo effect. However...it is a "single" version. It fades out at the end (before repeating the brigde again) and is slightly editied from the AOL version we all heard today.

-Derek

[Rainman]

Uuuuuurrrrrrgggghhh!!!

I just went through this whole tedious thing with f-ing PayPal, and at the end they say that FM won't accept payments from international accounts. What's with these guys? I'm trying to give them my money!! Why won't they accept money from f-ing Canada?

Well, you know where they can stick their Peacekeeper . . .

[wetcamelfood]

So are there any songs besides "Peacekeeper" on the "Peacekeeper" single? I mean, I know you don't have it yet as you've just ordered it but the link wasn't working for me and I can't find a "complete tracklisting" for the single anywhere so this is why I ask as I just want to make sure I stay on top of any non album tracks so thanks in advance. :)

John

[kenzo]

Link not working at the moment... (7:22 AM EST)

[CarneVaca]

Folks, this is a download deal. You can get it at fleetwoodmac.com for a buck forty-nine. Save your money. At this rate, buying the songs at $1.49 apiece could become very costly. That's $27 plus taxes for the 18 songs. I don't think they'll make all songs available for purchase in this way, but still, it's a ripoff. Don't do it.

[kenzo]

Originally posted by CarneVaca
Folks, this is a download deal. You can get it at fleetwoodmac.com for a buck forty-nine. Save your money. At this rate, buying the songs at $1.49 apiece could become very costly. That's $27 plus taxes for the 18 songs. I don't think they'll make all songs available for purchase in this way, but still, it's a ripoff. Don't do it.

CD singles at the store can easily cost 3 bucks or so. For people like me that want to be able to listen to Peacekeeper now without stealing it, this download purchase is the only option.

If you don't think it's worth it, by all means, don't buy it, but save your breath telling me "don't do it". I can make up my own mind.

[CarneVaca]

Originally posted by kenzo
CD singles at the store can easily cost 3 bucks or so. For people like me that want to be able to listen to Peacekeeper now without stealing it, this download purchase is the only option.

If you don't think it's worth it, by all means, don't buy it, but save your breath telling me "don't do it". I can make up my own mind.

Dude, do whatever you want. That's your business.

Out of curiosity, did you ever download the GOS tracks? If so, did you feel guilty about it?

[Livia]

The official website people said they were going to release 5 songs for downloading, one each week until the album is released.

:wavey:

[kenzo]

Originally posted by CarneVaca
Dude, do whatever you want. That's your business.

Out of curiosity, did you ever download the GOS tracks? If so, did you feel guilty about it?

I didn't download, much as I wanted to. It would have been the same as putting a CD in my coat and walking out of the store.

[Gypsy-Rhiannon]

It is definately a rip off and it looks like it is only open to US residents

Pip

[tommer]

Originally posted by Rainman
Uuuuuurrrrrrgggghhh!!!

I just went through this whole tedious thing with f-ing PayPal, and at the end they say that FM won't accept payments from international accounts. What's with these guys? I'm trying to give them my money!! Why won't they accept money from f-ing Canada?

Well, you know where they can stick their Peacekeeper . . .
i've gone thru that same **** myself too.
like i said a million times here, this industry behaves like a bunch of complete morons, after downloading THOUSANDS of songs in the last few years, i was willing to pay (and yeah, 1.5$ IS a ripoff) for a song for the 1st time ever, but it seems my non-american-residents dollar and a half are not to their liking, which means i'm gonna have to wait up to even an entire day :eek: till it leaks to p2p networks.

[Gypsy-Rhiannon]

...And we are supposed to feel confident that the tour will go outside of the USA??

Pip

[estranged4life]

Originally posted by Gypsy-Rhiannon
...And we are supposed to feel confident that the tour will go outside of the USA??

Pip

don't know the REAL meaning of a WORLD TOUR do they? Last time I looked/checked this sounds like a US TOUR, Since I do not see any dates for Canada, UK & the rest of the world. It does not sound confident does it Pip? Brian J.

[jeffs]

FM world war III but I can certainly understand if the MAC doesn't want to commit to overseas travel right now - it is the first time in my life I have to worry everyday about being an American on my own fricking soil and it is starting to really suck. Watching those planes hit those buildings has long lasting effects on many of us.

[estranged4life]

jeffs...I never have flown on an airplane in my life (I went to tech school with the "future" mechanics of major airlines...There's a reason I dont fly...LOL!!!) and like you I'm scared of terrorism and have seen it up close in my home state of Oklahoma.

But I do think leaving the UK & Canada out (Hopefully just for now and not for the WHOLE tour) is not making fans around the world feel very confident of seeing FM...If THEY would just let my fellow fans/friends know that they will be making this a world tour it would make everyone feel much better...Brian J.

[jeffs]

Canada and UK are two of our only friends in the world (many would argue including Canada in the list of true friends, they really hate us too!) Oh we might have one or two more out there but the rest of the world would just assume the US rot in hell - so the MAC does owe them atleast the peace of mind of knowing if down the road the tour will include Canada and the UK. The MAC has to be one of the worst bands in music history in comminicating with their fans in what is going on with them. This whole post Dance era has been a public relations/marketing disaster for Fleetwood Mac, most notably LB.

[Rainman]

Canada and UK are two of our only friends in the world (many would argue including Canada in the list of true friends, they really hate us too!)

Jeffs,

This is not music related, but . . .

PLEASE don't make broadstroke assumptions like this, that Canadians hate Americans. That's hardly true and it always angers me when I hear this. In fact I think you'll find the majority of Canadians are quite respectful of the people of America. And really, we aren't much different and, for the most part, we share ideologies.

There are differences with regard to foreign policy, that I think most Canadians and Americans share and that are really attributable to government action way more than the quality of people the two countries share.

Whenever I travel in the U.S., or whenever my friends travel in the U.S., we are always amazed at the warmth and friendliness. We are also the US' largest trading partner, by far, and vice versa. Truly, the conflicts between the countries always seem to revolve around government stupidity and insensitivity (on BOTH sides), and not any complaint with the people.

Anyway, a longer statement than I had planned, but you get my point.

[CarneVaca]

Eh, I dunno. I think the Canadians are still pissed at us for trying to invade them in 1812. ;)

[Skylark]

:wavey:So Sorry Peacekeeper is un-doing the Peace!:cool:

We like to fish in Canada on Quebec River! The many
ppl in the villages are very friendly to us!!!:nod:Bye,Sky:)

[Rainman]

Eh, I dunno. I think the Canadians are still pissed at us for trying to invade them in 1812.

LOL

Nah, Carne. I finally got over that last year. :D

[louielouie2000]

I'm not sure if singles are cheaper where you guys are from... but all the TISL singles I've seen here in NC are $7-$8. That makes this download thing seem like a real deal :o . I'll go and pick up a "real" peacekeeper single tomorrow when it's released... and I'll let you guys know what it cost me :) . -Louie

[Steve]

PSSST...Peacekeeper is on WinMX. It's the real deal this time.

[kenzo]

Originally posted by Steve
PSSST...Peacekeeper is on WinMX. It's the real deal this time.

Thanks for encouraging us to steal. Now go back into the boil that you oozed out of.

[saintbernard]

There is a version on WinMX labeled "Fleetwood Mac - NEW! Peacekeeper (Say You Will) Plays Fine.mp3" and runs 4:06. This is the AOL First Listen version. The "AOL First Listen" at the beginning was removed but the one in the middle of the song is still there.

Also, the version that runs 3:37 is still the silent MP3.

I haven't found the new complete version yet.

[Steve]

Thanks for encouraging us to steal. Now go back into the boil that you oozed out of.

TRASH[/B] :laugh:

[Steve]

There is a version on WinMX labeled "Fleetwood Mac - NEW! Peacekeeper (Say You Will) Plays Fine.mp3" and runs 4:06. This is the AOL First Listen version. The "AOL First Listen" at the beginning was removed but the one in the middle of the song is still there.

I realized that immediately after my post. However, there is a nonstepped on version available at Kazaa. The only problem is that it's the version that fades at the end.;)

[Rainman]

C'mon you guys . . .

For $1.49 you can get a clean, legal version.

No one is that cheap.

[kenzo]

Originally posted by Rainman
C'mon you guys . . .

For $1.49 you can get a clean, legal version.

No one is that cheap.

Apparently they are. Their reward is a life of discontent, always wondering what they can take from others to make themselves happy for a little while.

Enjoy your petty lives, petty thieves.

[SmthngOfADreamr]

Originally posted by kenzo
Apparently they are. Their reward is a life of discontent, always wondering what they can take from others to make themselves happy for a little while.

Enjoy your petty lives, petty thieves.

I would hardly call it stealing to download a version of Peacekeeper that AOL legally broadcast to the entire world for free. Get a grip. It's not like everyone on this board is not going to purchase the new album three times anyway (ie the single disc copy, the double disc copy, and the DVD-A, in addition to seeing the band at least once on the tour.) :rolleyes:

[Steve]

Apparently they are. Their reward is a life of discontent, always wondering what they can take from others to make themselves happy for a little while.

Forgive us oh righteous one for our sins. You are perfect and we are flawed. We have been tempted by the evil "Kazaa" (a.k.a, the Prince of Darkness), and must now repent!





:laugh: :laugh: :laugh: :laugh: :laugh: :laugh: :laugh:

[DownOnRodeo]

Originally posted by SmthngOfADreamr
I would hardly call it stealing to download a version of Peacekeeper that AOL legally broadcast to the entire world for free. Get a grip. It's not like everyone on this board is not going to purchase the new album three times anyway (ie the single disc copy, the double disc copy, and the DVD-A, in addition to seeing the band at least once on the tour.) :rolleyes:

Exactly! Thanks SmthngOfADreamr.

[Rainman]

Apparently they are. Their reward is a life of discontent, always wondering what they can take from others to make themselves happy for a little while.

Oh, c'mon. We're paying $1.49 for a single. Get a grip, buddy. You probably spent three times that much for your last beer. And there wasn't a lot of creative blood, sweat and tears put into that beer. I don't mind paying someone to enjoy their creative energy.

Jeezus, our priorities are so f-cked up!!!!

This is creative energy. There is no higher energy that we can reward.

[tommer]

Originally posted by kenzo
Apparently they are. Their reward is a life of discontent, always wondering what they can take from others to make themselves happy for a little while.

Enjoy your petty lives, petty thieves.

you have some nerve!!!!!
who the hell are you to judge us???!!!
as i mentioned before, it's overpriced and unavailable for non-us residents, but hey, why am i mentioning this at all? i honestly don't feel like i need to justify myself to you... anyway, i can ASSURE you that any possible discontent in my life would not be caused by THIS action, and just for the record, i am not a thief, in fact, my name was NEVER mentioned in ANY police records whatsoever, and as for you, i wish you'd crawl back under the rock which you just sneaked from. thank you.

[Gypsy-Rhiannon]

Originally posted by Rainman
Oh, c'mon. We're paying $1.49 for a single. Get a grip, buddy. You probably spent three times that much for your last beer. And there wasn't a lot of creative blood, sweat and tears put into that beer. I don't mind paying someone to enjoy their creative energy.

Jeezus, our priorities are so f-cked up!!!!

This is creative energy. There is no higher energy that we can reward.
You're right.... $1.49 isn't much at all... but apparently Reprise don't want my money as I don't live in the USA:mad:

Pip

[CarneVaca]

I encourage people to share these files as much as possible. 19 bucks for a CD is a ripoff, regardless of what band it is. And whether they charge $19 or $15 for the damn thing, Fleetwood Mac is going to get the same piddly buck or two for it. Meanwhile, the label reaps an obscene profit margin.

Has anyone wondered why even Amazon is charging such a high price for a single-disc release? Usually the new releases go for as little as $11.99 and not higher than $14.99. Something is going on here. But I'd hate to use the word "greed" again.

Download away, friends!

[Rainman]

Originally posted by Gypsy-Rhiannon
You're right.... $1.49 isn't much at all... but apparently Reprise don't want my money as I don't live in the USA:mad:

Pip


Yeah, they don't want mine, either. And I'm within shouting distance--although I'm not shouting. Yet. :mad:

[ERigby818]

Originally posted by CarneVaca
And whether they charge $19 or $15 for the damn thing, Fleetwood Mac is going to get the same piddly buck or two for it. Meanwhile, the label reaps an obscene profit margin.
Ugh. :distress: That makes me sick to my stomach...It's one of the reasons I don't judge anyone for sharing the music before the album release. I'd be willing to bet any amount of $$ those of us who swapped TISL songs before the album release still bought the album and enjoyed it ten times more because of the high quality and clarity of the songs. You just can't replace that with a compressed audio file, I don't care how big it is.

Has anyone wondered why even Amazon is charging such a high price for a single-disc release? Usually the new releases go for as little as $11.99 and not higher than $14.99. Something is going on here. But I'd hate to use the word "greed" again.
Download away, friends!

Yes I do wonder. I admit I impulsively pre-ordered it anyway through the Penguin because I love the Penguin (and despise Mick's site) and wanted to support it in any way I can while pre-ordering. I just figured it was pricey because it has a lot of songs.

But You'd THINK someone like me who pre-orders and is guaranteed to get the cd because I've already given them $20 could get the fees waived for those pre-released mp3s :rolleyes:. I mean, come on! Doesn't it make sense? They get a non-refundable 20 bucks from me (which IS certainly a lot for a cd), I'm gonna rightfully own the music in a few weeks, why not advance me the few tracks for free? Yes, that's right, I'm bitching about $1.49. multiply that by 5 or whatever and add it to the 20 bucks and the price tag for SYW is starting to sound like one for two cds. I'm sure this has been posted elsewhere, but I think the same advance deal should go for those who pre-ordered through Micks/ the FM site (even though they should have done it through the Penguin :nod: ) and those of you who shelled out $60 for the fan club. If you ask me, adding $27 or whatever to that $60 fee adds insult to injury. JMHO.
-Sonia

[kenzo]

Originally posted by CarneVaca
I encourage people to share these files as much as possible. 19 bucks for a CD is a ripoff, regardless of what band it is.
...
Download away, friends!

Doesn't matter whether it's $19 or $1900. If it's not yours and you take it without permission, you're a parasite.

If you ever had intellectual property with value, you'd understand. Guess the "intellectual" part is a hurdle you'll never clear.

[CarneVaca]

Originally posted by kenzo
Doesn't matter whether it's $19 or $1900. If it's not yours and you take it without permission, you're a parasite.

If you ever had intellectual property with value, you'd understand. Guess the "intellectual" part is a hurdle you'll never clear.

I can tell by your tone that your intellect is something else. You're probably The Knight, aren't you?

I happen to own some copyrights and I bet I could teach you a thing or two about intellectual property. And manners as well, for that matter.

[kenzo]

Originally posted by CarneVaca
I can tell by your tone that your intellect is something else. You're probably The Knight, aren't you?

I happen to own some copyrights and I bet I could teach you a thing or two about intellectual property. And manners as well, for that matter.

Not sure what the Knight is.

Your copyright protection means a lot if people steal your property anyway, right?

You do have a sense of humor, if nothing else. A thief lecturing us on manners!
:laugh: :laugh: :laugh:

[CarneVaca]

Originally posted by kenzo
You do have a sense of humor, if nothing else. A thief lecturing us on manners!
:laugh: :laugh: :laugh:

I am not lecturing you on anything, and you have no idea who I am. If calling me a thief for downloading songs helps your delusions of self-righteousness, go for it. You can't rattle me. You're about as significant to me as the ant I almost stepped on in my driveway this morning. I avoided the ant because I hate to end a life.

Anyway, I've grown weary of you, so I won't engage in anymore futile exchanges with someone who exhibits your level of civility. I don't come on these boards to be bored by people like you.

[kenzo]

I'll agree that I was uncivil.

I'll also agree that it's not important to you what I or anyone else thinks.

I apologize if my opinions on theft bothered you. I also have copyrights as well as patents, so perhaps I'm oversensitive to what might be perceived as people taking what they didn't earn.

I'll try to keep this discussion more reasonable and less personal.

Better?

[ryan8472]

Maybe i'm cheap, maybe lucky....I dont know which, anyways I just dowloaded Peacekeeper from someone on WINMX and it works fine, same with Thrown Down.....Personally my view is that if I can get the same thing for free instead of shelling out my money for it, i'm going to. By the way it's not considered stealing.....those systems( WINMX, Kaaza, etc...) are for file sharing....Until later

[kenzo]

Originally posted by ryan8472
...Personally my view is that if I can get the same thing for free instead of shelling out my money for it, i'm going to. By the way it's not considered stealing.....those systems( WINMX, Kaaza, etc...) are for file sharing....Until later

I'll try to keep this reasonable...

So it would be OK with you if everyone in the world shared one copy? It's not stealing to take something of value instead of buying it?

[chiliD]

"Value" is in the ears of the beholder.


"Copyrights" and "Value" are mutually exclusive.

[Gypsy-Rhiannon]

Originally posted by kenzo
I'll try to keep this reasonable...

So it would be OK with you if everyone in the world shared one copy? It's not stealing to take something of value instead of buying it?
The thing is I'm sure you must realise that everyone posting here will be buying the cd, probably more than one copy, anyway! I downloaded Peacekeeper from kazaa this morning but I will be first in line to buy the cd when it is released!

Pip

[kenzo]

Originally posted by Gypsy-Rhiannon
The thing is I'm sure you must realise that everyone posting here will be buying the cd, probably more than one copy, anyway! I downloaded Peacekeeper from kazaa this morning but I will be first in line to buy the cd when it is released!

Pip

It's great that eventually you plan on paying for it, but does that make the download OK? Would a regular store mind if you shoplifted but came back a month later to pay?

[Gypsy-Rhiannon]

Originally posted by kenzo
It's great that eventually you plan on paying for it, but does that make the download OK? Would a regular store mind if you shoplifted but came back a month later to pay?
Ah... but if I was a clever shoplifter the shop would never know ;)

Pip

[kenzo]

Originally posted by Gypsy-Rhiannon
Ah... but if I was a clever shoplifter the shop would never know ;)

Pip

Agreed... but you would.

[SeventhWonder]

Would you get off your high-horse already? It doesn't matter if they downloaded the song... They are going to buy the CD!!. It really makes no difference, I don't know why you are whining about it.

Dan:rolleyes:

[kenzo]

Originally posted by SeventhWonder
Would you get off your high-horse already? It doesn't matter if they downloaded the song... They are going to buy the CD!!. It really makes no difference, I don't know why you are whining about it.

Dan:rolleyes:

Who's whining? We're trying to have a (sometimes reasonable) discussion.

It would be great if every downloader eventually bought a copy. I don't agree that will happen.

[SmthngOfADreamr]

Originally posted by kenzo
Who's whining? We're trying to have a (sometimes reasonable) discussion.

It would be great if every downloader eventually bought a copy. I don't agree that will happen.

The problem with your logic here is that you are posting this on a fan site. I can't imagine people who have been excited for 2 years for this album's release suddenly deciding not to buy the album because they can get a half-assed bad quality audio file on their computer for free. You are beating a dead horse!

[Gypsy-Rhiannon]

Originally posted by SmthngOfADreamr
The problem with your logic here is that you are posting this on a fan site. I can't imagine people who have been excited for 2 years for this album's release suddenly deciding not to buy the album because they can get a half-assed bad quality audio file on their computer for free. You are beating a dead horse!
Amen to that!

Pip

[kenzo]

Originally posted by SmthngOfADreamr
The problem with your logic here is that you are posting this on a fan site. I can't imagine people who have been excited for 2 years for this album's release suddenly deciding not to buy the album because they can get a half-assed bad quality audio file on their computer for free. You are beating a dead horse!

Is it a stolen horse? :p

[SmthngOfADreamr]

Originally posted by kenzo
Is it a stolen horse? :p

No, it's a "shared" horse! :laugh:

[SeventhWonder]

Originally posted by kenzo
Is it a stolen horse? :p

:laugh:
Hey sorry about the whining comment, that was uncalled for. Just wanted to say that.

Dan

[sulamith]

Look, kenzo, you're a newbie, and you come in here acting all holier-than-thou.

What kind of reception do you expect to get?

Don't expect people to not take offense when you come out of nowhere and slam them.

And, no, I haven't downloaded it. I even missed the episode of Third Watch with it on there, so don't accuse me of stealing anything, not that it matters. I'll probably several copies of each version of the CD, too, but that doesn't mean I haven't downloaded anything before.

I just want my Peacekeeper to be a sweet surprise, unless i hear it on the radio.

I suggest you stop making war over Peacekeeper.

-Sharon

[kenzo]

sulamith,

I don't recall accusing everybody of stealing - but I did express an opinion that unauthorized file exchange = stealing.

If somehow you misconstrued this as a personal accusation, please accept my deepest apologies.

[sulamith]

Fine, I accept your apologies, BUT I think you are preaching to the wrong group. All you are gojng to do is piss people off and us long-time Ledgies are going to stick together.

If you go attacking one, expect the rest of us to jump to their defense.

We haven't been around here for the last few years exhausting every possible topic of conversation to have somebody like you come along now, when there is actually new music coming out, and rain on our parade, I tell ya!

Am I right? I think so.

Look, you're more than welcome here, but don't be a jerk.

-Sharon

[kenzo]

My opinion may be in the minority on this issue. Fine - but hopefully people will "defend" based on the merits of an argument and not on the number of previous posts by the arguer.

As far as being a "jerk", well, I realized that myself earlier in the thread and attempted to correct it in later posts. Lesson learned.

Hoping to continue rational discussion,
kenzo

[wetcamelfood]

Originally posted by ERigby818
I impulsively pre-ordered it anyway through the Penguin because I love the Penguin (and despise Mick's site) and wanted to support it in any way I can while pre-ordering

I completely agree! :)

For anyone here that will be ordering the SYW stuff online anyways, PLEASE use Marty's links and link to Amazon through The Penguin as that helps Marty with the costs of running this site and with all of the SYW talk that will most likely be going on soon (it looks like it's starting already!) we'll need all the bandwidth we can get! :) It really won't be a big difference to your ordering process, just come to the Penguin first and then link to Amazon from here and then put in your order, simple as that. :)

I really don't have time to argue on the downloading/file shring thing. I personally won't be doing it and I do respect Kenzo's opinion... BUT I can't see any "fan" being THAT bent out of shape over the file sharing issue unless he is maybe one of the "lurkers" from Mick's board that we know come here? I mean, I can't think of any other reason it would be so upsetting. Just a thought.

We all know THIS is the place to come for the REAL FM site/news etc. so the best way we can make The Penguin the most "preferrable alternative" to the (supossedly superior) "official" ones (if it isn't that already) is to join forces together (whatever our opinions are) and order through the links here to "strengthen" this site as THE place on the net for all things FM as much as possible (only applicable to those that will be ordering their stuff online anyways that is of course). :) Even that won't "take care" of the site costs and I admit that I don't know how all of that works but at least it would help Marty out in some way. :)

John

[kenzo]

Originally posted by wetcamelfood

...
I really don't have time to argue on the downloading/file shring thing. I personally won't be doing it and I do respect Kenzo's opinion... BUT I can't see any "fan" being THAT bent out of shape over the file sharing issue unless he is maybe one of the "lurkers" from Mick's board that we know come here? I mean, I can't think of any other reason it would be so upsetting. Just a thought.
...
John

Actually, I am "just" a fan. The reason it's upsetting, as you put it, is that I strongly oppose people taking what isn't theirs. It is amusing to be in the minority in a stealing vs. not stealing argument.

Snowy in Peabody tonight, by the way (I work in Bedford).

[wetcamelfood]

Originally posted by kenzo
Actually, I am "just" a fan. The reason it's upsetting, as you put it, is that I strongly oppose people taking what isn't theirs. It is amusing to be in the minority in a stealing vs. not stealing argument.

Snowy in Peabody tonight, by the way (I work in Bedford).

Hi Neighbor. :)

Yeah they said "5 inches of snow tops" for this area, it's gotta be more tha that now! :)

OK, fair enough, I just guessed wrong is all, if you say you're not a "Mick board person" then OK, I apologize for the "accusation". :) I still don't think I understand WHY "stealing" is upsetting to you if you are not involved in it though. For instance, if you're in a store and you see someone else stealing something and you have no personal allegiance to the store then does that upset you? Do you confront them? Do you tell the store clerk about it? If you do (or would in this hypothetical situation) then I apologize again, I'm just trying to understand it. :)

Do keep in mind though that I said "I" won't be doing the download thing either just as you obviously won't be too (though I personally have nothing against those here who are doing it). :)

Well, I still hope we can help Marty out by using the Amazon links here for our purchases (if they are to be bought through that avenue)! :)

John

[kenzo]

Originally posted by wetcamelfood
Hi Neighbor. :)
...
Well, I still hope we can help Marty out by using the Amazon links here for our purchases (if they are to be bought through that avenue)! :)

John

I think we can all agree on that... if anyone does plan on paying :p , link through the Penguin. I've done that a couple of times. (mmmm... warm fuzzy feeling... aarrrrggghhh [drool])

[DownOnRodeo]

Originally posted by kenzo
Actually, I am "just" a fan. The reason it's upsetting, as you put it, is that I strongly oppose people taking what isn't theirs. It is amusing to be in the minority in a stealing vs. not stealing argument.
Yeah well the point is you continue to ignore two things:

(a) people from UK, Australia, Europe etc need to have the file shared if they want it because it's not available to them. Any copyright/'income forgone' issue here is illogical because these international fans are inherently incapable of providing that income; and
(b) anyone who is an active member on the Ledge, who either mentioned file sharing or will actually reply to your posts calling them criminal and ethically depraved, is without exception the one who will buy at the very least the SYW CD, and more likely many many more of the same and related merchandise and copies thereof.

The only point you may have is one made towards one of the hundreds of silent non-members who still read the forums and doubtlessly download things, without being enough of a fan to actually commit to purchasing anything.

Well these people are not the ones who are going to reply to you, so all you are doing is barking obnoxiously up the wrong tree.

If there's any one of those points you don't understand and accept, feel free to prattle on; otherwise, get the message and ...put a sock in it. :wavey:

[kenzo]

Originally posted by DownOnRodeo

...
If there's any one of those points you don't understand and accept, feel free to prattle on...


I'm willing to accept that I may be the one that "doesn't understand".

Are you?

[DownOnRodeo]

Originally posted by kenzo
I'm willing to accept that I may be the one that "doesn't understand".

Are you?

A bit disappointing but no surprises - I see you have not understanded and have felt free to prattle on!

As you continue to do so, I'm afraid all you are accomplishing is the exhibition your ignorance.

Only someone who was not an involved member of the FM fan community would fail to realise they were all but making a fool of themselves to suggest the people who vocally contribute to this board are petty thieves before they are diehard fans of the band they love.

[Johnny Stew]

With all of the discussions about file-sharing in the news lately, and here on The Ledge, it reminds me of my teens and pre-teens, when I would sit in front of the radio for hours, trying to tape my favorite songs.

Eventually, when I was a little older and had some part-time jobs, I could afford to actually buy the tapes (and later, CDs), and the days of taping off the radio ended.

Nowadays, I look at file-sharing in a similar light. If I hear a song on the radio that I like, but it's unavailable to buy as a single, I'll download it from KaZaA or WinMX, until i'm later able to buy the album.
In some cases (such as Rufus Wainwright), I'll download a few songs from several different albums to get a feel for the artist's overall repertoire.
Trust me, this has resulted in the purchase of several albums that I never would have given the time of day to, had I not had a chance to hear the song thru downloading it.

I realize that, unfortunately not everyone does this. Anything in this world can be corrupted if people choose to take advantage of it.

And I'm not trying to justify my actions, or anyone else's, but I think the record companies should take a serious look at their practices.
They've made it all but impossible to find singles, because they want buyers to purchase the full-length album (where they make the most profit). However, the list price on single disc albums has become so high that many people simply can't afford it. Especially the teenagers that many of these albums are being marketed to.

I have read that it costs less than three dollars to manufacture a CD, which is why music clubs, like Columbia House and BMG, can offer discs for such a low price (sometimes just the cost of shipping)... surely the record companies can cut back their prices, and start making the music industry a little more consumer-friendly, while still enjoying a profit.



Johnny Stew

[Johnny Stew]

By the way, I wanted to mention that Amazon.com has adjusted the prices for both versions of 'Say You Will.'

The single disc version (http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/ASIN/B00008PW3Q/thepenguin/) is now selling for $13.49 (29% off of the $18.98 list price), and the 2-disc limited edition version (http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/ASIN/B00008PW3O/thepenguin/) is now being offered for $24.99 (11% off of the $27.98 list price).

The price on the DVD-Audio version (http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/ASIN/B00008PW3P/thepenguin/) is still $18.98.

And yes, please do follow the links on The Penguin and on The Ledge, as it helps Marty to continue running this site. :)



Johnny Stew

[Alison]

Any one know how well it is selling right now on Amazon. I can't see it under best sellers like it one was the other day.

[Steve]

SteveWith all of the discussions about file-sharing in the news lately, and here on The Ledge, it reminds me of my teens and pre-teens, when I would sit in front of the radio for hours, trying to tape my favorite songs.

What a wonderful analogy. Thanks Johnny Stew, because I really think most of us feel the same way. I have read the postings for years and have posted during TISL and during the past several months. The Ledgies are articullate, caring, honest people who are just crazy about FM!! I must say, after reading the posts from Mick's site, I have found a greater appreciation for the "Ledgies". I love the critics (spicy conversations) such as from "Verna Carna(sp?) among others. A healthy debate is fabulous.

Please, don't give "Kenzo" the opportunity to stir you up. You're good people and have nothing to defend. The fact that he says he doesn't know who the Knight is makes me very suspsious( WB undercover dude)...oh, but then I fall into his crap.

Please just don't respond to him..I think that's what he wants.

Your Friend (and fellow Mac Fanatic!!!)

Steve

[Gypsy-Rhiannon]

Originally posted by DownOnRodeo
Yeah well the point is you continue to ignore two things:

(a) people from UK, Australia, Europe etc need to have the file shared if they want it because it's not available to them. Any copyright/'income forgone' issue here is illogical because these international fans are inherently incapable of providing that income; and

Exactly

Pip

[kenzo]

Originally posted by DownOnRodeo
A bit disappointing but no surprises - I see you have not understanded ...

As you continue to do so, I'm afraid all you are accomplishing is the exhibition your ignorance.

Only someone who was not an involved member of the FM fan community would fail to realise they were all but making a fool of themselves to suggest the people who vocally contribute to this board are petty thieves before they are diehard fans of the band they love.

I guess I haven't "understanded" and have accomplished the "exhibition your ignorance". :laugh: :laugh: :laugh:

I was willing to be wrong, but since you're not, you must be right. I yield to your superior arguments and logic.

I've been a fan since 1970, and I'll continue to express my opinion just as everyone else here does. The only change I'm willing to make is to be more careful with incendiary personal remarks. That's uncalled for, and probably obfuscated the main point.

As far as diehard fans being petty thieves, well, the two descriptions are unrelated. Your enjoyment of the music has nothing to do with the morality of taking it unpaid for.

[CarneVaca]

Originally posted by Steve
I love the critics (spicy conversations) such as from "Verna Carna(sp?) among others. A healthy debate is fabulous.


:laugh: :laugh: Steve, I'm cracking up. I think you mean me, good ole (or would that be mean ole) CarneVaca. What's especially funny about that is my real name often stumps people who proceed to botch it trying to spell it. Anyway, thank you, my friend, for the compliment.

As for you Kenzo, I accept your apology. No harm done.

[DownOnRodeo]

Originally posted by kenzo
[B]I guess I haven't "understanded" and have accomplished the "exhibition your ignorance". :laugh: :laugh: :laugh:
]
You got me good there! (hides in embarassment) See what getting me all worked up does!! :rolleyes:

Meanwhile, frankly I'm surprised that the "American-English" term for 'understood' isn't 'understanded' .... ;)

[CarneVaca]

Originally posted by DownOnRodeo
Meanwhile, frankly I'm surprised that the "American-English" term for 'understood' isn't 'understanded' .... ;)

Not to stir up any more controversy, but the English language has very little logic built into it, primarily because it is an amalgamation of so many languages, mostly Latin and French. It is very pliable. Shakespeare alone coined some 1,000 words. Of course, as a result of this flexibility, English is also the richest language from a vocabulary standpoint.*




*Brought to you by COLL (the Council on Language Logic)

[larg]

I just wanted to state a few things here:

I'm only 16, I have no job, and I spend most of my time doing school stuff. So, when I wanna hear the new song, Peacekeeper, but don't have a credit card to order it from Mick AND can't just rely on the luck of hearing it on the radio, I will be tempted to download it myself. However, were it not available for download, then I would, as someone else said earlier, sit around and wait all day until WMGX plays it, then I would tape it and listen to it whenever I want.

Fleetwood Mac should EXPECT this by only offering the single to radio stations. If it were at Walmart right now, I'd probably be begging my parents for a little bit of spare cash right now to go buy it.

As an analogy, let me ask a question. I play guitar. I don't go out and buy Guitar Magazine or Guitar One, but I DO go online to various webpages that show how to play these songs the SAME way as in the books. Is this stealing?

Or, on the same note, is reading a magazine artcile from the Rolling Stone, originally published in 1978, stealing if I just read the typed out version on this website?

I'm not trying to cause problems. I just wanted to let everyone know how I feel about this issue. Also, it makes me feel very good about the people here to see them so willing to appologize to each other for people of BOTH sides of this conflict saying rude and childish things.

I can get away with it though, cause I'm only 16. I'm still a child. :p But don't worry, I won't call anyone a poopyhead or anything! I can respect people's opinions.

This all reminds me of a post awhile back about political parties, where I was very offended by so many people's anti-Republican remarks. But in the end, it all worked out like this has, making me feel safe with this great bunch of people.

BTW, Kenzo, welcome the the Ledge! :)

Adam Richardson

[Steve]

Well put, Adam. Adults can say some pretty messed up things to each other. Thanks for your insightful comments!!:nod:

[DownOnRodeo]

Originally posted by CarneVaca
Not to stir up any more controversy, but the English language has very little logic built into it, primarily because it is an amalgamation of so many languages, mostly Latin and French. It is very pliable. Shakespeare alone coined some 1,000 words. Of course, as a result of this flexibility, English is also the richest language from a vocabulary standpoint.*
*Brought to you by COLL (the Council on Language Logic)

Yeah absolutely. It's pliability is a bit irksome, and sometimes when trying to explain concepts of English to foreigners I honestly wonder how I ever learnt and mastered (hah - not quite I guess! :rolleyes: ) the language.

But that's off topic. I honestly wasn't having a go at Americans (well, maybe 10%!!) when I made that remark - there are many such words that have been simplified like that in your vocabulary, or to bring some more 'logic' to it. I'll swear by proper English til the day I die, but even many Australian educators believe such concepts as phonetic spelling which prevail in American-English should be taught here to make literacy easier.

[sodascouts]

Originally posted by CarneVaca
Not to stir up any more controversy, but the English language has very little logic built into it, primarily because it is an amalgamation of so many languages, mostly Latin and French. It is very pliable. Shakespeare alone coined some 1,000 words. Of course, as a result of this flexibility, English is also the richest language from a vocabulary standpoint.*




*Brought to you by COLL (the Council on Language Logic)

I apologize for going off topic, but I wanted to add really quickly that for all its flaws, one great thing about the English language is that it doesn't as a rule have gendered word endings (you know, the old "bonita/bonito" thing). I was reading some French feminist literary criticism (not for fun) and the author kept going on and on about how words are all patriarchal and women have no language of their own to make their views known, and I was like "huh?" Then I realized that since I was reading the English translation, I was missing out on all her examples of gendered language (which I won't go into lol). In English, "They" are "they" regardless of whether they're men or women.

So English-speaking women can be less frustrated than others. j/k

Oh, and Joe, as an English teacher, don't even get me started on folks who want to write "phoenetically"....

[DownOnRodeo]

Originally posted by sodascouts

Oh, and Joe, as an English teacher, don't even get me started on folks who want to write "phoenetically"....

Dargh! I can't believe I spelt 'phoenetic' incorrectly! I'm really showing my true 'colors' !!

Meanwhile, I've always said to my friends, if nothing else I love 'Rumours' for the way its spelt! One of the biggest-selling ever US albums and its spelt the British way! :D

(Oh no - post no. 666! Look away!!!!)

[Phil]

I happen to concur with Kenzo's comments one hundred percent. Whether we ultimately purchase the cd in an official capacity or not, to take what's not ours (claiming property, intellectual or otherwise, without payment) equates to theft.
Kenzo's supermarket analogy is quite apt - accessing goods with the "intention" of paying later wouldn't cut the mustard in the real world... nor should it in "Mac-land".
However, of perhaps greater concern to me than the debate at hand is the seemingly collective persecution of another Ledge member, let alone a new arrival. If diversity is to be embraced among Ledge members so should freedom of speech and the right to exercise one's opinion without fear of recrimination and vilification.
So with that, I would like to welcome you Kenzo and look forward to your future contributions.

[DownOnRodeo]

Originally posted by Phil
If diversity is to be embraced among Ledge members so should freedom of speech and the right to exercise one's opinion without fear of recrimination and vilification.
Sorry, I guess I just found it easy to recriminalise someone who comes out of the blue and insists I'm a criminal!

[sulamith]

Well me too, and the only reason I replied to kenzo was because of the sledgehammer approach he was using. I'm sure he can be a welcome addition here, but like all of us have learned, we have tread a bit lightly sometimes.

I really have a problem with someone who comes in on the attack like that, esp. now that things are happening, you know?
Just like I said, all of us have been here when it's been dead as a graveyard. We've discussed everything from Lindsey's fingernails to Micks "balls" to Stevie's breath,........ and boy, if you can stick around for those discussions, you don't deserve to accused like that.

File-sharing is a hot-button topic, and one could go to any fan board and make the same argument, argue all day, and still never get anywhere.

I guess it needs to be in the same category as religion and politics.

I sort of see it as a gift, myself! haha! Thank you, kazaa! For little ol' me? That was very thoughtful of you!

-Sharon

[jwd]

File-sharing is a hot-button topic, and one could go to any fan board and make the same argument, argue all day, and still never get anywhere.

I guess it needs to be in the same category as religion and politics.


I agree 100% sulamith! Excellent point.


Joe

[sodascouts]

Originally posted by DownOnRodeo
Dargh! I can't believe I spelt 'phoenetic' incorrectly! I'm really showing my true 'colors' !!


Sweetie, you spelled it right! Mine was a typo. I put the word in quotation marks not because I was trying to correct you, but because I think "phonetic" spelling is bogus. How ironic!

[CarneVaca]

Originally posted by sodascouts
Sweetie, you spelled it right! Mine was a typo. I put the word in quotation marks not because I was trying to correct you, but because I think "phonetic" spelling is bogus. How ironic!

Oh my, I've been cracking up at this for a couple of days. Sorry, Joe, I almost jumped in to clear it up, but I thought it was funnier this way... Sorry. :laugh: :laugh: