First full length Peacekeeper impression

[stefan]

Hi Ledgies, just heard the full version of the single... Well I don`t know about that. I think the chorus sounds really great, even better than before- the duet is fitting. But the song in general seems to be overproduced or however you may call it. The part I liked the best was the "all of our friends are gods etc..." thing with LB singing the higher notes. This has been radical changed, now Stevie doing the higher parts but with a strange sounding voice (perhaps some kind of voice machine as it really sounds different to her other parts and songs). And still too much in the front of the mixing regarding the verses not the chorus.

Also his new sung parts- (break your will) sounds different and in the last seconds the high fading guitar sound gives you the feeling the voice doesn`t stand/hold the tone and breaks away, which is not the case- it`s the guitar. O.K that`s only a detail and doesn`t make the song.

But somebody here mentioned that the verse dueting does not work. I think that`s right for this piece- I agree.

It still is a catchy thing, but in the moment I am not too happy with the changes in this version. Probably a matter of time and getting used to. Probably without having the opportunity of comparing the new single to the ACLU version nobody would say a thing. But then probably it`s really overproduced.
So the question to me is:
"What`s the GOS coming to?" :laugh:

[CarneVaca]

Originally posted by stefan
But somebody here mentioned that the verse dueting does not work. I think that`s right for this piece- I agree.

Uh, that would be me. Having listened to the whole song a couple of times, my opinion on that remains unchanged. The verse should have been sung by the male voice with a snarling, menacing tone a la Steve Earle on a lot of his "Jerusalem" record. At best, the harmony should have been sparse, as in "the same" and "fire we've made." This dual-voice arrangement makes the song prettier than it should be, and I don't think the harmony on the verses works at all. Their voices sound way too different, unlike on "I Don't Wanna Know" or "The Chain." Also, when you hear Stevie's voice harmonizing on "Tell Me Lies," it makes sense as it provides a deliciously tense counterpoint to the other voices. Here they are attempting to sing the lines exactly the same way note for note, yet their range and tone is so disparate that rather than creating tension or producing a pretty harmony, it sounds a little like nails on chalkboard. Whatever effect they used to produce those funnel-like nasal tones on Stevie's voice should have been put aside.

But that's the negative stuff. The guitar arrangement sounds great, and I especially like the guitar solo under the chorus toward the end, as well as the very fast picking of the nylon-string guitar at the end. I'm glad they kept the weird high-pitched sound in the chorus too. The harmony on the chorus works. It's hard to tell from this low-fi version, but there are other voices there in the chorus, which I think should have been brought up more. And that would have taken full advantage of the sing-along quality of the chorus rather than just getting more of the same from the verses. Still, in my humble opinion, their harmonizing on the chorus is pretty good as both voices reach for a similar pitch successfully.

I would also agree with Stefan about the overproduction, but I'm not sure that could have been avoided considering all the instrumentation. One way to cut down on that overproduction feel would have been to tone down some of the effects. Then again, that might not have worked. Lastly, I would add that the thing I was most looking forward to on this song was the addition of the Fleetwood Mac backbeat. Unfortunately, I feel Mick's drumming is rather mushy. And that makes the song feel more like swaying when it should be pumping your fist in the air.

Overall, it's still a nice song, and that's the problem with it. It's a little too pretty when it should have been toughened up some. Where's the edge that Lindsey always talks about? There are plenty of other opportunities to get pretty on this record. It shouldn't have been this song. If Lindsey does this to all of the GOS songs in Say You Will, I'm going to be rather disappointed.

[FiercestCalmSea]

Here they are attempting to sing the lines exactly the same way note for note, yet their range and tone is so disparate that rather than creating tension or producing a pretty harmony, it sounds a little like nails on chalkboard. Whatever effect they used to produce those funnel-like nasal tones on Stevie's voice should have been put aside.


Thank you,Carne,for stating that so well...that was my impression.I will admit at first i was thrilled to hear Stevie was on this track..but when you listen to the whole song...it just does not work...I like Linds by himself....

[Cristian]

I wholeheartedly second that emotion. I still like Lindsey's solo version the best. The harmonies work on this in the chorus, but the verses should have been sung by Lindsey himself, just like in the original version. Also it shouldn't have lost that touch of "rawness" that the original had. Anyway, it's still a catchy, good song.


Song of the moment - Dissatisfied

[blinker12]

OK, first impression: I agree with Carne and others about Stevie's vocals on the verse. Flat-sounding, almost as if she's out of tune.
However, the ending gave me chills, like a good Fleetwood Mac song should. The multiple layers of vocals, the guitar solo _ they build to a climax that's genuinely thrilling.
And I love the sentiment of this song. Overall, I think it's a great effort _ relevant, catchy and enthusiastically performed.

[Cristian]

Was it just me, or was there a lyric change in the song? Or maybe two, even?


Song of the moment - Dissatisfied

[seteca]

Originally posted by Cristian
Was it just me, or was there a lyric change in the song? Or maybe two, even?


Yea, I don't get the change of "Only kill" to "Break their will"...?? I haven't really given it any thought yet either, but unless someone can come up with a very interesting interpretation of this new version....I prefer the original lyrics!

I just heard a 64kbps version (which i assume is the AOL version) and I liked what I heard.

It's a great, great song, so it would take a major effort to make it "not good". Having said that, like so many others, I have my questions about the vocal layering of the song. In addition, it sounds like ALL the vocals in the song (especially Stevie's) have been put through different levels of Lindsey's regularly used voice machine. At certain points in the song it gets so obvious that it sounds almost like the voices are going through a flanger effect. The fact that it's only a 64kbps version eccentuates this.

:wavey: :wavey: :wavey:

[SmthngOfADreamr]

Originally posted by CarneVaca
Whatever effect they used to produce those funnel-like nasal tones on Stevie's voice should have been put aside.


I'm not trying to be rude or cause a Stevie squabble, but do you really think they used an effect on her voice? I just assumed that it was her normal amount of nasality du jour, since her voice seems to acquire more and more of a nasal quality as time goes on. Just look at the difference between The Dance (where she was remarkably clear-sounding) and TISL(less clear and more nasal at times). There will be a marked difference in her tone even between TISL and Say You Will. I started a thread like this months and months ago when I mentioned how odd it is that she sounds very different on every single abum, so it's just something that I've come to expect I guess.

[Rainman]

I'm disappointed, overall. But I do like the way it winds up. Seems to salvage the tepid beginning (compared to Lindsey's solo version). It's like they're trying to be too nice in the first half of the song!

Anyway, my thought on the new lyrics is that "break their will" definitely makes it more appropo to the current situation in Iraq. Also makes it more benign. "Take no prisoners, only kill" is open to some pretty nasty interpretations.

By the way, big thanks to Trin for making the mp3 available.

[Bella Figura]

I do like the song (a good tune is a good tune) but I have to agree that the Lindsey and Stevie vocals can be a bit jarring especially when you're looking for BN2.
Both voices have matured and changed.

I always am a little shocked whenever I listen to new music with Stevie singing...she can sound quite different from album to album. It actually started for me with the Rock A Little album so it always requires a few listens before I start to love the vocal. I also think Stevie is really stretching her vocal range in this one which I think is a good thing...monotonal is not the way to go :)

I still like "only kill" over "break their will" but I guess you have to be pc

[Johnny Stew]

Well, I guess I'm the voice of dissension here, as I LOVE this finished version... which is no small feat, since I was already head over heels for Lindsey's solo version.

I totally dig the tone of Stevie's voice here (and yes, even though her vocals were probably filtered, she *can* still hit those notes if she tries), and I think the contrast of their voices on the verses is nothing short of divine.

Though I do agree that the backing vocals on the choruses should have been mixed higher, as to stress the distinction between the chorus and the verse.

There have been many times when Stevie is singing in a much higher range than Lindsey is, lending a harmony that is a bit unexpected and offbeat... "Second Hand News" is a good example of that.
But typically her voice is lower in the mix, so the difference is somewhat less noticeable.

(I'm still wondering if perhaps her vocals are a little more pronounced on the single/radio version, than they will be on the album.)

Either way, I'm very pleased with the track as it stands, and I think the little bit of polishing they've done, has improved upon an already terrific track.

But then, I always do prefer a more polished sound... I'm not a garage band kinda man.



Johnny Stew

[CarneVaca]

Originally posted by SmthngOfADreamr
I'm not trying to be rude or cause a Stevie squabble, but do you really think they used an effect on her voice? I just assumed that it was her normal amount of nasality du jour.

Interesting point. I am inclined to believe there's a voice effect because it does seem more metallic than usual. Also, Lindsey is well known to like to use these machines.

I am, and I mean this as no insult to Ms. Nicks, rather shocked that Lindsey put these vocals together the way he did. It just seems so antithetical to his nearly obsessive insistence on having pitch-perfect harmonies. If the verses don't sound great here, I put the blame squarely on Mr. Buckingham's shoulders. I commend Stevie for stretching as much as she could to make it work. It just didn't work.

[strandinthewind]

I seem to remember that even in the original Rhiannon, Stevie's voice was filtered. That is why is sounds so full and smooth and that sounds was very hard to produce on stage at the time. There was an interview that mentioned the Beatles had used the same effect on on of their songs.

Also, I know of no artist in today's market that do not fess up to using a protools type of program (See liner notes for TISL). Remember the guy they had a question and answer for on this site that was like "just sing the note and don't rely on a key or pitch correction device." I have a few friends "in the business" and have in a very simple way recorded me covering songs (YIPES!!!!!). They could almost "falsely produce" a three part straight/unison harmony with just my one vocal. Its amazing, but you can kind of tell if you listen hard, etc. Also, they can digitally edit almost anything, including a vocal, down to like a 32nd note now. I mean I was on like the third row for Madonna's last tour (no slams please ;) ) and although she was not lipsynching, what I heard coming out of her mouth was not what was coming out of the speaker. So, apparently, they can edit/enhance live as well.

So, while I think Stevie and Lindsey have and had good voices with no "help," history shows us that they are not afraid to alter them electronically, albeit perhaps more so Stevie because she has produced more material since the advent of readily available software for digital correction, etc.

[Nightbird_Brett]

I guess I'll be like Johnny Stew and be another "voice of dissension" here, but I absolutely love it! I emailed the link to all of my family and friends late last night. I got a few reply's this morning and they all loved it as well. My former band director, who is a huge FM fan himself, said it sounds like the classic Buckingham Nicks harmonies that he grew to love in the seventies. He heard the ACLU version before and he agrees with me that it sounds better with the higher octave harmony vocal. It adds a certain effect to it. I do agree though that I prefered the lyric "Take no prisoners, only kill" but that's OK. Well, that's just my two cents. Can't wait to hear the whole album.
Brett

[strandinthewind]

I have just heard it (stupid server :mad: ).

It sounds like Stevie is doing two or three vocal parts in the beginning (which is a little strange - but I like it). I must say that although I love the original I love this one as well. I would even say I would trade LB's angst in the original (ouch!!!!!) for the new one. I think it just adds, esp. Stevie in the chorus. Stevie's vocals sear "above" LB almost (and I mean almost) as if we are in 1980. I hope they do it like that on stage. Front row or not, they will have to carry me out!!!!!!!!!!!:wavey: :wavey:

[Steve]

Overproduced???? Oh, please.....FM critics have said that for years starting with Rumours and Tusk. To me, it sounds like a terrific, classic-sounding FM tune! I also think the production and song is his best FM work since Rumours.

Now the harmonies, that's a different story. I agree with many of the posts. However, I do have to say, I think we may be expecting too much from their harmonies. It ain't 1973 and they ain't in their twenties. Maybe Stevie doesn't want them to mess with her voice, the same way she hates for producers to rework her songs.:wavey:

[EnchantedStorms]

I just listened to it. :D Overall, I have to say, I love it. I agree that it could be a little "darker", though. It's a little too "pop-ish" for the lyrics. BUT, I LOVE LOVE LOVE the harmonies!!! Stevie and Lindsey are AWESOME together, and to me, this song just proves that they haven't lost that "magic". :D


~Angela~:wavey:

[Phil]

Well, of course, I happen to adore the addition of Stevie's vocals but I too have concerns about any kind of compromise, particularly a lyric change such as the one already mentioned. I take umbrage at any sidestep for the sake of being PC - shame on you Lindsey! Could this be the eleventh hour lyric change we heard about in December? Definitely a concession to world events in my opinion.
Has it occurred to anyone that John Shanks' involvement may be the reason for the comparatively lightweight pop sound of the single? I note the single advertisement's distinction between the radio mix being a co-production (John and Lindsey) whilst the album is credited to just Lindsey so it could well be that the album version retains some of it's original dark atmosphere. We'll see.

[Steve]

HAS ANYONE ELSE PLAYED PEACEKEEPER ON A GOOD STEREO SYSTEM???!!!!

Well I take back what I posted earlier re: the harmonies!! I copied the song onto a cd and listened to it on a good stereo. Boy, what a difference!! The sound is so much more full, rich than on computer speakers. And Stevie's harmonies sound fine. They are much more subtle and really blend into the song. Lindsey's vocals on the chorus are much more evident.

What a terrific song!!!!!

Try it out and you'll hear what I mean.:nod:

[wondergirl9847]

Lord, please help me to say things without getting upset and making others upset. Thank you, Amen.

Okay folks, I've listened to this over and over and here are my thoughts. Sigh.....

Things I hate:

1. Lyric change from only kill to break their will...now it's will...and will...like in the first verse with same...made. LOL
2. The fact that Stevie sings so much on it. LOL DON'T THROW THINGS!!!!
3. CAN'T HEAR THE DANG GUITAR AT THE END!!!!!!!!!!! They should have SHUT UP and let him do his SOLO!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
4. I agree it's a bit overproduced, too much VOICE goin' on, and not enough MUSIC!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
5. Stevie's nasaly voice. (PLEASE, DON'T THROW THINGS!!! OWWW!!! I SAID PLEASE!!! LOL)
6. Yeah, Mick's mushy drumming is right...it's like limp wrist or something.
7. Lindsey is STILL drownded (LOL) out by Stevie AND the music at times!!! GRRR!!!!!!

Things I love:
1. Lindsey's HIGH vocals :eek: SWEET JEBUS!!! How did he DO that?!?!?!?! "Nuts in a vice grip"? <--- a Justin fan came up with that to describe Corey Clark on American Idol!! LMAO!!!!!!!
2. Those KICK A$$ nuances in the song like the guitar "dulloooo" at the VERY end!!!!!! My fave guitar part around 2:35 is STILL THERE!!!!!!!!! The "laugh" is there!!!!
3. John's BASS!!!
4. The fact someone said this is NOT the album version!!!!! LOL

I keep singing only kill when I sing along. :rolleyes: LOL
BTW, I was NOT expecting those SWEET BN harmonies from back in the day, I just am a little put off at how much Stevie gets to sing on this version. I prefer Lindsey's version....as I always have. IF I had NEVER heard LB's version tho...I wouldn't have anything to compare it to, so I can't really use THAT as an excuse NOT to like it! LOL

Are there other singers in the background? If it's Sheryl Crow, I swear to ALMIGHTY....$#@!$#@!$#@%.....

That is NOT Lindsey saying "AOL First Listen"...doesn't sound like him...to me anyways. Sounds like that generic dude voice. LOL

Can I say, regardless of how I feel about this song...

LINDSEY FRICKIN RULES!!!!!

[Rainman]

Christy--LMAO

Thank you . . .

[CarneVaca]

Christy, you're cracking me up. Doesn't anyone else find Mick's drumming a bit lacking on this song? The bassline does sound pretty cool, simple but nice.

[DownOnRodeo]

One sentence:

This is a great song, and IMO the best version of it yet!


:nod:

EDIT: OK - I cave in! A couple more sentences! Yeah Carne, there are some spots where the drumming seems a bit weak, and I also was happy with the bass.

[DWIG]

I will add my congrats to the band for making a great piece of music. Excellent song, fantastically produced by Lindsey (?and John Shanks), he really knows what to do with Stevie's voice in a song and i think this bodes well for the rest of the album. I love the guitar sounds too (very definately a unique Lindsey Buckingham sound).
There is so much going on in the song, that i hope when we get to hear it on the CD it will sound even better.
Can't wait for the rest of the album.
I think if it is promoted the right way, it will cause a lot of interest in the forthcoming events!
Now all i need is some word about the UK tour dates!!!
Dave

[Lauren]

I have the song on now and I just love it. I think the harmonies work - their voices have aged yet still work together, it's so FLEETWOOD MAC sounding, and the guitar solo at the end is incredible. Who said it gave them chills? I agree!

I agree Stevie does sound a bit nasal but I think that's her voice as she gets older and agree with the one that said her voice changes on each album. I notice that too.

You gotta love this though I mean it's Buckingham Nicks - 30 years later. It gives me such a happy feeling - it's a happy song (at least the tune, not the lyrics which Lindsey is very good at doing).

Neat to read all the thoughts though ! I also am listening to it on a stereo as I taped it off the radio and I think that may make a difference.

Yes, it is pop oriented but maybe it will be a hit on the radio for a change, they deserve it.
Lauren

[Trin]

I love it!

Couple of things.

Lyric change=sucks

I think this is due to all the kinder gentler/PC BS, that makes me want to puke, and it annoys me that they seemed to back off on the edge that lyric induced.

I would have liked to kick the lead up a bit and hear more solo from Lins, but other than that... Thumbs-up.

I think this is fantastic rendition of the somng. Well done!

Trin

[Janet]

We can't get too mad about a lyric change. We were never supposed to hear the original lyric.

I liked the one effect in the beginning of the song that sounds like a part of David Gray's Babylon.

Another effect sounds like Shania Twains " Im Gonna Getcha" Anyone hear either of these effects?

Stevie drowndes ( hahaha) out Lindsey yes. You can't hear anything over her, but thats how he wanted it for some reason.

The original had so many cool vocal effects that Lindsey did.

And the end solo is taken over.

So I love the song and if I never heard the original, Id be so happy! But since I heard the original, I wish they kinda lowered Stevie a bit.

I love S/L singing together.

The drumming sounds like a machine except for a couple of parts. I hope Mick gets better in other songs.

I really like the song as a whole and I was singing with it by the second time I heard it ( got a great version off Kazaa) so its catchy and thats important.

We need a video. Stevie sitting on a window ledge her knees folded to her chest singing away and Lindsey standing playing guitar and they go back and forth to them and in the end he sits next to her and they finish the song together. Corny?? :)

[CarneVaca]

[QUOTE]Originally posted by Janet
We can't get too mad about a lyric change. We were never supposed to hear the original lyric.

Not so in this case. This song was released in a limited-run CD.

The drumming sounds like a machine except for a couple of parts. I hope Mick gets better in other songs.

You know, I've wondered if it is a machine. Because it sounds pretty lifeless. I supposed that is the feel they were going for, but it's really not on par. It bums me out because this is a great song that could have been better. But what do I know?

[strandinthewind]

I know what you mean about the drum machine sound, especially at the beginning in that initial roll and then some kind of "popping" sound, which is repeated throughout the song. While I cannot say I dislike it, it seems not to fit in with the rest of the song. I guess I think the drumming should be "heavier" for want of a better word (I am not a drummer :) ). The bass line certainly is, especially when they go into the chorus. You know, I heard this song last night on the radio and the drums sounded even "lighter" if not muddled. I have a pretty good speakers, etc. in my car. So, I was a little disappointed amongst my total elation that it was being played with some fanfare from the DJ.

Also, I put this song into my MP3 player that I exercise with and you can better hear the drums, not to mention a few, if not a lot, other soft vocal harmonies that are only slightly discernable on my speakers. Having said all of that, I realize I am perhaps making an "academic argument" because although I also liked the "solo" version of the song, I also really, really like this version of the song especially with Stevie's vocals. For me, they just seem to add alot in the mix, etc.

[ERigby818]

I Loved Lindsey's version better. This one is a little less edgy...though the harmonies are really gorgeous. But then again Lindsey's own multi-layering harmonies on his original were pretty kick-ass too.
Her parts are a bit too overwhelming in spots...in others, they are perfect (like when they are subtle in the "When the night is cold and still...." bridge/verse whatever that is). Those "other voices" in there are definitely Lindseys, and I love that.
I really don't think the song has lost that much in the transition, though perhaps it hasn't gained as much as it should have.

I hear some awesome wild guitar parts that I didn't hear as much before toward the end in the chorus-- am I the only one who's hearing/noticing this?! My new favorite part (besides the "laugh"): "There's still something we can se-e-elll" That harmony makes me grin :D because of that classic Mac sound....something very GDW about that.
The bass is awesome, and the drum is definitely lacking something.

I'm sorry, but I LOVE the lyric change. I thought "only kill" was kinda tacky, not because it was violent (the whole song has violent implications and I dig that), but because it was morbid (I think bringing up death lyrics in a song opens up a whole can of worms)...even so, I accepted the line as part of a beautiful song. The fact that he changed it to "break their will" I don't think is PC, dumbed-down, or even has anything to do with current events. I think it's a better, more thought-provoking line that may even evoke more violence than "only kill" if you think about it. It matches the rest of the song, though not the "take no prisoners" line, and doesn't leave as much of an impression. But I don't care. It's still better, IMO.

I am familiar with pro-tools, but I don't think Stevie's voice sounds all that manipulated. In terms of effects, yes, but I think she really did squeeze out those high notes in the studio.

In summary, I agree with everyone who said it's a great Mac song, even though I liked Lindsey's version better. Stevie's harmonies are amazing, albeit a bit overwhelming in some spots.
-Sonia

[HolidayRoadGirl]

Ack! I just typed a long rave about how much I love the single ... and then I think I deleted it before posting. Oh well, just wanted to say, this is the first version I've heard so I can't say what I would have thought if I'd heard the "only kill" version. But I love this one sooooo much! (And "break their will" seems appropriately dark and edgy, imho). Plus I LOVE Lindsey's voice on it!!! It's so good to hear him singing again. I've heard so much of Stevie lately with TISL but no new Lindsey in ages. I'm actually glad that Chris's voice wasn't in the mix. (That surprised me, since I thought I'd miss her, but I think her vocals would have made the sound too sweet, too smooth.) Anyway, sorry if I posted twice, and thanks for letting me rave ...
xoxo
HollyRG

[HolidayRoadGirl]

Is the "laugh" people are referring to when Linds goes "aw, ah-ah-aw, aw, aw!"??? That is my favorite part of the song. Trust Lindsey to come up with the perfect vocal/sound effect to make the song so unique and cool (as in "Hold Me," "I Want You" to name a few) ...

Also, someone posted that Lindsey's ad-libbing over the chorus was a turn-off. Isn't it funny how fans can have such different reactions? For me, when he started doing that was when my enjoyment of the single went all the way to "eleven"!!!
xoxox
Holly

[estranged4life]

Originally posted by HolidayRoadGirl
Is the "laugh" people are referring to when Linds goes "aw, ah-ah-aw, aw, aw!"??? That is my favorite part of the song. Trust Lindsey to come up with the perfect vocal/sound effect to make the song so unique and cool (as in "Hold Me," "I Want You" to name a few) ...


That is the laugh...And I agree with you about the vocal/sound effects Lindsey has used in the past/present...They may sound weird, But they also sound very original.

Bwj