Peace Keeper IS THE NEW SINGLE......

[Christopher]

Just heard this on the radio here on Denver's KBCO Adult Alternative station...after they played "the chain"..the dj came on and said they will have the new Fleetwood Mac song called "Peace Keeper" next Wednesday (3/5) ....

Although this is exciting!!! After hearing the snippet last night...(and I know its hard to judge from a minute and half version off television)...I wasnt convinced this should be the important 1st SINGLE after all.....Lindseys solo version definetely packed a bigger wallop......This new version has yet to grow fully on me and I agree with some of you that it has been toned down and has a totally different vibe with Stevie's vocals. My biggest observation is that it now sounds so easy listening....which to me is even a step lighter than POP!!!...

I like "Say You Will" better...but also I'm beginning to feel that perhaps "Thrown Down" should have been the 1st single....out of everything we've heard so far.. TD has the newest sound. and is harder rockin'!!

[stefan]

Having heard the different (and better) version of Peacekeeper (from Burnish.net) I`m absolutely fine with this choice!
(Who didn`t realize the difference between the files floating around- check it out, you`ll surely change your mind)

[SilverGirl]

wow... RIGHT before I came here and saw this thread, I was just thinkin, as I listened again to it, that with what's goin on in the world, I bet Peacekeeper would be VERY popular as a single! (~~~isn't that weeird?~~~~lol)

although I 'personally' like another of the songs I've heard better, i think Peacekeeper sounds very 'radio friendly', and I believe it will zoom on the charts! hey, the world needs it!! I think it's smart to release it... let the momentum build, then throw another one out!

[SilverGirl]

BTW, thanks ever so much for posting the news, Christopher!!

So much for "get your up to date news here from THE KNIGHT"!!

:laugh: ~~giggle~~ :laugh:

[wondergirl9847]

I have to say, the song has to grow on me (the FM version, I am in LOVE with Lindsey's version!!!), but it's DANG CATCHY, that's for sure, I sing the chorus all the time!!! I love that they kept in the wierd sound (ya'll know the one). :laugh:

I'm gonna keep on listening to the mp3 I have of the song...and I love it, it's just...different with Stevie on it. I'm trying ya'll!!!!

[estranged4life]

that should make for an interesting choice as a single...Brian J.

ps-Seems Christopher beat the "Knight" & posters over there on Mick's website with this info...Brian J.

[jwd]

I'm perfectly fine with the release of "Peacekeeper" as the first single and it sounds like a hit to me. I'm so glad the song turned out to be a Lindsey/Stevie harmonizing effort. I hope every song on SYW has lots of harmonies between the two of them as they sound awesome together. I really got excited last night after I heard the song played on Third Watch and am highly anticipating the relase of the new record from Fleetwood Mac. YAY!!!!


It's B/N Fleetwood Mac, not Lindsey or Stevie Fleetwood Mac. YAY!! :)

Joe

[WelshWitchPMD]

I heard the MP3 of "Peacekeeper" and I really wasn't that crazy about it. I did like Stevie's vocals, however. I think "Say You Will" would make a much better first single. I heard SYW again on the "That 70s Show" promo the other day and my ears just perk right up. Maybe if I heard "Peacekeeper on TV I would like it better. Does this make sense? :laugh:

[DownOnRodeo]

Stefan - thanks for letting us know about the burnish.net version. A big difference - much more prominent Lindsey vocal etc! And of course the real thing will have an awesomely better sound again.

I think it is a great first single. Timely, catchy, clever, innovative... it's GYOW for 2003!

[Sorcerer386]

I can see why something like Peacekeeper would be a great song to release back in the 60's and 70's, but I don't think music is too much into politics these days. I haven't heard the album cut yet though, so I guess I should before I judge. But if you're thinking this will make a good single just because of it's place in what's going on in the world, I'd give it a second thought. Today we like to hide from things...we don't like to face them. I just really hope they know what they're doing, because this first single is pretty much everything for the album (unless it gets a rush with a second or third single). AND, they better not waste this album by releasing only two video'd singles!

[Livia]

That's cool! I posted in the Third Watch thread that our local adult alternative/contemporary station didn't have any info yet about the first single.

I don't think music is too much into politics these days

I see your point about that, considering all the Vietnam era music, but I think it's just a matter of time before artists get their new post 9-11/anti-war music recorded and out there. Bruce Springsteen kinda beat everyone to it with "The Rising." And I'm sure there will be more to come. For example, Stevie's "Illume" won't be out until April 15, nearly 2 years later.

Who knows? It may even be a purposeful marketing thing by the record company. A controversial pop song with a catchy, radio-friendly hook.

[SilverGirl]

I think musicians, celebrities, and the general public are becoming increasingly more into politics and anti-war protest in this country than at any other time since the vietnam era... there are more tools available due to technology to make voices heard:


(Feb. 26) - Sheryl Crow was ridiculed for wearing a "War is not the answer" T-shirt to an awards show, Sean Penn was castigated for visiting Baghdad and Martin Sheen was slammed for exploiting his TV role as a fictional U.S. president by fronting an anti-war ad promoting a ``virtual march'' on Washington.

In response, hundreds of thousands of war opponents called and faxed their senators and the White House Wednesday, jamming many congressional telephone lines for several hours.

Tom Andrews, a former Democratic representative from Maine who is running the organization, said more than 500,000 people had signed up on the Internet to take part and a half a million more were also expected to participate without registering on the group's web site (Moveon.org).

"We have hundreds of thousands of calls and faxes that we know are going in. It's a first-of-its-kind protest and a tremendous success already," he said. "People are making their voices heard loud and clear -- don't invade and don't occupy Iraq."

The Web site had a running total of what it said was the number of calls placed. As of 5 p.m., the number was almost 400,000. The Web site was flashing the names of individual protesters above a map of the United States with quotes from e-mails sent to the headquarters and to lawmakers. Each comment included the name and hometown of the protester.

[Rainman]

Hey Christy and SilverGirl, I agree completely that it's a timely choice. I hope Christopher's radio station got its information right. Perhaps the state of the world was a factor in choosing Peacekeeper as the first single. If so, good on 'em.

The more I listen to this new version, the more I'm okay with it. Not that anyone at FM gives a $#@% whether I'm okay with it or not, but I am.

Should be an interesting week.

[tommer]

this track's gonna get them being asked all sorts of current political questions, i hope they know what they are doing.
i REALLY hope they know what they're doing.
(is this the smell of trouble or was it just my cat who farted???) :shrug:

[BombaySapphire3]

While the sentiment of this song will go over well here (The Bay Area)and western Europe it may not be so warmly embraced in middle America aka the Bush/Bible belt. where the perception of forgein affairs is generally not as sophisticated. I'm very glad it is the first single although from what i can hear of "Say You Will; its very catchy as well.

[blinker12]

I think it's incredibly cool that they're releasing "Peacekeeper" as the first single. The Mac have never been particularly political in the past _ although I guess they had politics foisted on them in 1992 during Clinton's campaign _ so this is a dramatic change of pace for them.
The lyrics are very eloquent. But I admit I may be biased because I happen to agree with the song's message. :)
You know, I wonder what, specifically, Lindsey wrote this song about. He must have written it long before Bush's stand-off with Iraq began building... but he may have written it during one of our past airstrikes on the Iraq or Yugoslavia.

[strandinthewind]

Hopefully, LB will go into what it is about during the hopefully pending media hoopla.

I think its great they are releasing it because whatever it is about (we could be way off base you know :D ), it certainly fits the times and timing has never been FM's forte - e.g. Illume - great sentiment, but the fact remains it is two and half years after the fact. More importantly, Peacekeeper apparently is not really an in your face I am against war no matter what the reason and no matter what they say, Bush is just a warmonger leading a coalition of the bribed for oil kind of song.

Hopefully, Warner/Reprise is thinking this will get it played on the radio. As mentioned, any help FM can get is this area is great as they are all over 50 and not rapping or exposing navels to get the publicity :eek: :eek: :D :D

[Karen]

Originally posted by BombaySapphire3
While the sentiment of this song will go over well here (The Bay Area)and western Europe it may not be so warmly embraced in middle America aka the Bush/Bible belt. where the perception of forgein affairs is generally not as sophisticated.

What an awful thing to say about Middle America (and the rest of the U.S.A.)! Are you basically implying that the people of “The Bay Area” know more about international affairs than the rest of us? Maybe you should read your statement over again to figure out why some people may find this a bit offensive. What about William J. Clinton? He’s from Arkansas, but does this make his perceptions of the world less sophisticated? :confused:

Besides, why does Peacekeeper have to be about politics? I remember that Stevie once said in an interview that she’s the peacekeeper in the band. The song could be about the band, or maybe it’s about something that is more on a personal level. The song was also a prefect fit for the theme of the Third Watch episode. It could be about anything. Just a thought.

[BombaySapphire3]

Hey we did not elect Shrub here!(Well technically
I don't think you did in Florida either!)I also just saw a poll where about 60% of people here opposed the war that figure was reversed nationally with 60% supporting it.Those veiws don't jibe with much of the rest of the world.Maybe I shoud not have just picked on "Middle America'I know there are a preponderance of war hawks down in San Diego and Orange county as well.I am also aware of the 40% nationally that oppose it so there is hope.

[Rainman]

"they are all over 50 and not rapping or exposing navels to get the publicity"

Strandinthewind, I don't know about you, but if John exposes his navel in concert with a navel ring, I'm gonna go back to country music. :D

[Karen]

Originally posted by BombaySapphire3
Hey we did not elect Shrub here!(Well technically
I don't think you did in Floridia either!)I also just saw a poll where about 60% of people here opposed the war that figure was reversed nationally with 60% supporting it.Those veiws don't jibe with much of the rest of the world.Maybe I shoud not have just picked on "Middle America'I know there are a preponderance of war hawks down in San Diego and Orange county as well.I am also aware of the 40% nationally that oppose it so there is hope.

I thought we were talking about Middle America & Peacekeeper. How does the Presidential election figure into this picture (and the war polls for that matter)?

You have your opinion and I have mine. If you want to turn this into a political debate, then go right ahead. I just don't think this is the proper forum for it.

[Sorcerer386]

Originally posted by Karen
Besides, why does Peacekeeper have to be about politics? I remember that Stevie once said in an interview that she’s the peacekeeper in the band. The song could be about the band, or maybe it’s about something that is more on a personal level. The song was also a prefect fit for the theme of the Third Watch episode. It could be about anything. Just a thought.

I've said many times already that Peacekeeper might be a kind of rebuttal after Lindsey hearing the line from Fall from Grace, "High priestess, she's the keeper of the peace in this..." It all depends on when the song was written though.

[strandinthewind]

Rainman
___________________________________________________

Strandinthewind, I don't know about you, but if John exposes his navel in concert with a navel ring, I'm gonna go back to country music.
___________________________________________________

Maybe John can wear a pig tailed wig and make up as well. Maybe his navel ring could get caught in Mick's "balls" during World Turning (yet another reason not to do that song ;) ) AARRGGHH!!!!! :wavey: :D :laugh: :] :] :woohoo: :D :):wavey:

[Karen]

Originally posted by Sorcerer386
I've said many times already that Peacekeeper might be a kind of rebuttal after Lindsey hearing the line from Fall from Grace, "High priestess, she's the keeper of the peace in this..." It all depends on when the song was written though.

This is exactly what I was thinking about. For all we know, Peacekeeper could have been written many moons ago. Does anyone know when Fall From Grace was written by Stevie? Anythings possible, right? :)

[jwd]

While the sentiment of this song will go over well here (The Bay Area)and western Europe it may not be so warmly embraced in middle America aka the Bush/Bible belt. where the perception of forgein affairs is generally not as sophisticated.

What kind of BULL**** statement is that!? I think people in middle America and other places in the world can think just fine for themselves without having the liberally controlled media brainwashing our minds. You're way off base on your statement and it is offensive.

Thank you Karen for your replies(rebuttals).....I agree wholeheartedly!



Joe

[Livia]

I work in an office full of attorneys who are all diehard DEMOCRATS. In fact, one of our partners was the Travis County Chairperson for the Democratic Party for several years. Did I mention that I live in Austin, Texas? That's right, baby! Good ol' George Dubbya used to be our idiotic governor and now he's an idiotic President! In other words, we don't all support him here in the "bible belt."

President Clinton spoke here recently and reiterated a point I've worried about for a long time, which is that North Korea is a bigger threat to us (and the world) than Iraq, and that Bush should be paying more attention to them. Something else I read recently referred to North Korea as the "nuclear missile Wal-Mart of the world."

Anyone care to move this conversation to the "chit-chat" forum?

But back to the original topic of this thread - I don't think Lindsey writes retaliatory songs back to Stevie anymore. I think they are past that, well at least Lindsey is. Stevie seems to live in the past more than he does, especially when you consider that so many of her old songs from the 70's are still being released as new material. I think the "peacekeeper" phrase is just a coincedence. Just my 2 cents - song interpretations have always boggled my mind.

[kristin]

I believe that Fall From Grace was written around the time of The Dance......I heard somewhere that it was about her relationship with Lindsey at the time....although that could just all be speculation.....I really don't know. Don't ya just love how we find a way to make all of their songs about eachother?? HA! In a perfect world.....

Kristin

[Karen]

Originally posted by jwd
What kind of BULL**** statement is that!? I think people in middle America and other places in the world can think just fine for themselves without having the liberally controlled media brainwashing our minds. You're way off base on your statement and it is offensive.

Joe - I feel the same way. It just blew me away that someone would intentionally put down the rest of the U.S. (and other parts of the world) with such generalizations.

Kristen - Thanks for clearing up the timeline regarding Fall From Grace. Peacekeeper may not be a rebuttal to this song, but you never know. I just find it hard to believe that it's about what's currently going on in the world.

Livia - If you want to start a thread about politics in the Chit-Chat Forum, then that would probably be the place to do it. I'm sure that there are others who may find it interesting.

[seteca]

Originally posted by wondergirl9847
but it's DANG CATCHY, that's for sure...

Absolutely...:nod: This is an addictive song, and is very radio friendly. Great choice to have it as the new single!:nod::thumbsup:

:wavey: :wavey: :wavey:

[wondergirl9847]

Back to the TOPIC at hand...PEACEKEEPER...THE SONG!! LMAO!!

I have been singing the song ALL DAY AT WORK!! LOL Well, under my breath, since I work in a "SILENCE OR ELSE" kind of workplace. (I do data entry...OOOH FUN!! :rolleyes: ) I have pretty much remembered the lyrics, except for the second verse at the end, I have trouble there..LOL I LOVE IT!!!!!

APRIL 15TH...GET HERE SOON!!!!!!!!!!!!!! :blob1::blob2:

[BombaySapphire3]

'Joe - I feel the same way. It just blew me away that someone would intentionally put down the rest of the U.S. (and other parts of the world) with such generalizations." I called the statements generalizations when i made them but I do feel that a fair percentage of the US is tragically out of touch if they feel this "war' is right .and Joe most of the world is not controlled by the 'liberal media 'and they do not agree with it either.This is my opinion and if people find it offensive then I suggest you never travel abroad and ask people in other countries what they think of US forgiein policy. My remarks will seem innoucous indeed compared to what you may hear.

[strandinthewind]

In her journal entries on Nicksfix, she refers to writing some of the lyrics (the chorus perhaps) of Fall From Grace at the Four Season hotel in Atlanta, Ga. She also said somewhere that the song Fall From Grace came out of The Dance tour and is somewhat about being onstage with FM. Stevie also seems to take things from different poems or journal entries written at differet times and incorporate them into songs (Angel, Destiny, Enchanted, etc.)

I know she lived at the Four Seasons for about six months in 1999 (maybe 2000). In fact, I saw her in the bar there (no I wasn't stalking - realy - I swear;) :D ). Actually, I also sort of knew the guy who did her hair at a salon here in Atlanta. He said she was totally grey, she was very nellow, she complained alot about Atlanta's traffic (which sucks), she drank exotic tea, and was a wonderful and nice person. I am such a gossip today:wavey:

[sodascouts]

I think Peacekeeper is a great choice for a first single. The chorus is so melodic - it appealed to me instantly. Thrown Down and Say You Will are good, too, but I believe Peacekeeper excels them both by (honestly) a wide margin.


P.S.

Originally posted by BombaySapphire3
While the sentiment of this song will go over well here (The Bay Area)and western Europe it may not be so warmly embraced in middle America aka the Bush/Bible belt. where the perception of forgein affairs is generally not as sophisticated.

It's just this kind of elitist, condescending perpetuation of degrading stereotypes that turns independent voters away from the Democratic party. So go ahead and alienate everyone outside of San Francisco, but don't whine if"Shrub" gets re-lected because of the perception that Democrats are contemptous of the "regular guys" everywhere else. This perception may not be accurate, but when people read statements like yours, what are they supposed to think?

[Johnny Stew]

Originally posted by sodascouts
Don't whine if "Shrub" gets re-lected because of the perception that Democrats are contemptous of the "regular guys" everywhere else.I'm not meaning to jump into the fray here, because I'd just as soon leave politics out of all discussions... but I got a good chuckle out of the irony in that statement, so I thought I'd say something.

And I'm not laughing at what you said, just in the disparate nature of the various perceptions... as I think a lot of Democrats (and a lot of Independents) actually feel that it's Republicans who are contemptuous of the "regular guys"... ie: Blue-collar workers.
Hence the continual tax-cuts and tax-breaks for those with higher incomes, while programs such as Medicare and Social Security... which most benefit the "working class"... are often the first things to be hit when a Republican government needs to tighten the proverbial belt.

I got a kick out of it recently, when a Republican analysist said that people in the middle and lower-classes, wouldn't argue with President Bush's current economic plan... which seemingly favors the upper-classes... because, he says, "people in the lower-classes wish they were rich too."
Which has to be about the most blatant "let them eat cake" kind of statement I've ever personally heard.

Anyway, I'm not meaning to favor one side or the other here, as I think both sides have their faults, and their degrees of corruption... I just found it interesting and ironic that both "sides" seem to feel that the other side is guilty of snobbery towards the middle and lower-classes.
Apparently though, we ALL wish we were rich! ;) :laugh:



Johnny Stew

[Karen]

Originally posted by Johnny Stew
Anyway, I'm not meaning to favor one side or the other here, as I think both sides have their faults, and their degrees of corruption... I just found it interesting and ironic that both "sides" seem to feel that the other side is guilty of snobbery towards the middle and lower-classes.
Apparently though, we ALL wish we were rich! ;) :laugh:


Well, I think this statement just about sums everything up. :nod:

There are no rules when it comes to politics. You just have to read between the lines and decide for yourself.

[Tusk57]

I know I'm in the vast minority here, but I believe President Bush is doing a great job under very difficult circumstances. I guess that makes me one of those unsophisticated rednecks that doesn't happen to live in San Francisco. Nobody wants to wage war, but sometimes the alternative is worse. Give it a thought.
Bill

[CarneVaca]

Originally posted by jwd
What kind of BULL**** statement is that!? I think people in middle America and other places in the world can think just fine for themselves without having the liberally controlled media brainwashing our minds. You're way off base on your statement and it is offensive.


I have to bristle at this. The "liberal media" is one of the greatest myths the Republicans have ever conjured up. In fact, people like Rush Limbaugh (who admits he's in it for the entertainment value), Pat Buchanan and Bill Crystal have admitted that it is a myth. Joe, how do you reconcile the fact that most mediat outlets are owned by huge corporations with your accusation of a liberal bias? Did you see what the media did to Clinton? I've been part of the media. In my last media job, every single one of my superiors was Republican, all the way up to and including the CEO. Do you think Michael Eisner is a liberal? Rupert Murdoch? Joe, think it through before you make that statement again. Just some friendly advice from a fellow Ledgie.

Moving on to the original topic, I hate to say it, but based on the snippet from Burnish.com, which admittedly is not in stereo so there are some quality issues, I would have to say that the harmonies in Thrown Down, which some of you may recalled I panned some time ago, are better than Peacekeeper. I can't imagine what Lindsey was thinking by tracking both voices throughout the verses. It simply doesn't work. In the chorus, they almost have it, but, sorry, folks, the song has lost some of its sheen for me. If Peacekeeper and I Don't Wanna Know are distant cousins in the harmony department, I Don't Wanna Know will never admit the family link. I'm just glad I have the original version.

The more I hear of this upcoming album -- Thrown Down, the Say You Will snippet and now this -- the more I worry.

I will also go on a limb and predict that Peacekeeper will not get much air play.

[CarneVaca]

Originally posted by Tusk57
I know I'm in the vast minority here, but I believe President Bush is doing a great job under very difficult circumstances. I guess that makes me one of those unsophisticated rednecks that doesn't happen to live in San Francisco. Nobody wants to wage war, but sometimes the alternative is worse. Give it a thought.
Bill

Bush is ruining this country. He has managed to alienate all our important allies with the exception of the UK, he has done nothing to protect us at home despite the laughable creation of the homeland department, and he is chasing ghosts in Iraq for oil. Those of us who are living with the constant threat of terrorism where the terrorists have already struck simply cannot understand the logic. That's because there is no logic. And I won't even go into the methodical destruction of environmental protections and the economy. Bush and his people will go down as one of the worst administrations this great nation has ever had to endure -- a bunch of greedy, power-hungry clowns who managed to turn an unprecedented amount of goodwill from our friends abroad into disgust and distrust.

And Tusk57, with all due respect, there is no such thing as a "vast minority."

[Sorcerer386]

Originally posted by CarneVaca
Bush is ruining this country. He has managed to alienate all our important allies with the exception of the UK, he has done nothing to protect us at home despite the laughable creation of the homeland department, and he is chasing ghosts in Iraq for oil. Those of us who are living with the constant threat of terrorism where the terrorists have already struck simply cannot understand the logic. That's because there is no logic. And I won't even go into the methodical destruction of environmental protections and the economy. Bush and his people will go down as one of the worst administrations this great nation has ever had to endure -- a bunch of greedy, power-hungry clowns who managed to turn an unprecedented amount of goodwill from our friends abroad into disgust and distrust.

Well CarneVaca, what do ya know...we FINALLY agree on something, lol. I just hope voters will see this terrible behavior next election and get the Bush monarchy the Hell out of office. After all, we know Daddy and the crew are running things. But apparently, we need to catch Bush doing something REALLY bad like having an affair in order to get him out of there. :eek: What did I say?!?

[jwd]

I know I'm in the vast minority here, but I believe President Bush is doing a great job under very difficult circumstances. I guess that makes me one of those unsophisticated rednecks that doesn't happen to live in San Francisco. Nobody wants to wage war, but sometimes the alternative is worse. Give it a thought.

Tusk57 count me in as one of the "vast minority". ;)


Bush is ruining this country. He has managed to alienate all our important allies with the exception of the UK, he has done nothing to protect us at home despite the laughable creation of the homeland department, and he is chasing ghosts in Iraq for oil. Those of us who are living with the constant threat of terrorism where the terrorists have already struck simply cannot understand the logic. That's because there is no logic. And I won't even go into the methodical destruction of environmental protections and the economy. Bush and his people will go down as one of the worst administrations this great nation has ever had to endure -- a bunch of greedy, power-hungry clowns who managed to turn an unprecedented amount of goodwill from our friends abroad into disgust and distrust.


My dear friend Carne this sounds like a lot of liberal propaganda to me.





Sorry Karen........I triiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiied!




Joe

[CarneVaca]

Originally posted by jwd
Tusk57 count me in as one of the "vast minority". ;)





My dear friend Carne this sounds like a lot of liberal propaganda to me.





Sorry Karen........I triiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiied!




Joe


Joe, so let me get this straight: You think that people who had to run for their lives on Sept. 11 in Manhattan and are now wondering just why we're going after Iraq instead of protecting ourselves better at home and finding Bin Ladin -- you think those people by having these thoughts are engaging in liberal propaganda?

[CarneVaca]

Oh, and Joe, one more thing while I'm thinking about it: Name the liberal counterpart to Rush Limbaugh and the army of radio talk show conservatives. Can't think of one? I didn't think so.

Your "liberal media" just canned Donahue the day after he was interviewing Rosie O'Donnell about her anti-war sentiments. Sure, the cancelation was mostly about ratings, but what does that tell you? That the media is controlled by liberals?
:distress:

[estranged4life]

some time to soak in "Peacekeeper", I just don't see it as a potential single. it's missing something...

As for politics, I remain neutral as ever...Brian "Can't trust ANY politicians" J.

[tommer]

Originally posted by CarneVaca
Your "liberal media" just canned Donahue the day after he was interviewing Rosie O'Donnell about her anti-war sentiments. Sure, the cancelation was mostly about ratings, but what does that tell you? That the media is controlled by liberals?
:distress:
if that was the case, wouldn't you expect them to cancel it a day BEFORE such an interview is about to take place?

[CarneVaca]

Originally posted by tommer
if that was the case, wouldn't you expect them to cancel it a day BEFORE such an interview is about to take place?

So, Tommer, am I to understand you too think the media is controlled by liberals?

[sodascouts]

Everybody always whines that the other side controls the media. Who cares? I know very few people who just swallow what "the media" tells them. Those that do usually aren't too bright.

[tommer]

Originally posted by CarneVaca
So, Tommer, am I to understand you too think the media is controlled by liberals?
i'm trying to hint that you don't have to be anti-liberal to be pro-war.
all these anti-war efforts reminds me of Neville 'Peace in our Time' Chamberlain.

[SmthngOfADreamr]

Originally posted by CarneVaca
Joe, so let me get this straight: You think that people who had to run for their lives on Sept. 11 in Manhattan and are now wondering just why we're going after Iraq instead of protecting ourselves better at home and finding Bin Ladin -- you think those people by having these thoughts are engaging in liberal propaganda?

I agree with you Carne. I am one of those people who had to run for their lives on Sept. 11, and honestly I feel that I am open minded enough to see the this from both sides, mostly because I am not sure how I feel myself. Propoganda, either liberal or conservative, has little effect on me. Part of me really feels that the United States has been, and continues to be its own worst enemy with its over-bearing foreign policy and attempts to control foreign politics and economics. That part of me wants to see us get the hell out of Iraq ASAP, because we no reason to stir up trouble. The other part of me really is scared that something like Sept. 11th is going to happen again. It's in my mind every time I have to get on the subway to go to work, and that whether it's irrational or not,this fear has become a part of who I am. This is the other half of me who is in favor of the war, and wants the US to act like its usual overbearing self and go into Iraq and kick Saddam's ass before he kicks ours like Osama did. I agree that we should be hunting bin Laden, but unfortunately, he's not our only enemy. I am sure that I'm not the only New Yorker who is faced with this dichotomy, because a lot of us have so much of our own emotions tied up in the whole ordeal, that it's very hard to choose one single side.

[jwd]

Joe, so let me get this straight: You think that people who had to run for their lives on Sept. 11 in Manhattan and are now wondering just why we're going after Iraq instead of protecting ourselves better at home and finding Bin Ladin -- you think those people by having these thoughts are engaging in liberal propaganda?

I don't remember saying anything like that. But I would say in defense of that.....Afghanistan has been liberated, which was the major network of the al-Qaida. In case you haven't heard the third man in command in al-Qaida, Khalid Shaikh Mohammed was apprehended yesterday, a major coup in the fight against terrorism. What makes you think that the war against terrorism has stopped?! And we have not been attacked since 9/11.....what makes you think that our homeland security is not working? Who isn't scared right now?!

As far as Iraq(Hussein) goes, wether he is tied to terrorism or not, and I would tend to believe that he is....Hussein is a bad apple with an even worse track record. He has been in violation of the UN for years. The only reason he is "disarming" now is because the military noose around his neck is tightening.

If anyone's ulterior motives for oil should be questioned it is that of Russia and France...not the US. These countries have huge interests in Iraqi oil.

Would you consider Hollywood to be a liberal counterpart to Rush or any other conservative talk show host?!

That part of me wants to see us get the hell out of Iraq ASAP, because we no reason to stir up trouble.

THAT is exactly what got the world in a hell of a lot of trouble in the middle part of the last century.



Joe

[CarneVaca]

[QUOTE]Originally posted by jwd
I don't remember saying anything like that. But I would say in defense of that.....Afghanistan has been liberated, which was the major network of the al-Qaida. In case you haven't heard the third man in command in al-Qaida, Khalid Shaikh Mohammed was apprehended yesterday, a major coup in the fight against terrorism.

You are right that you didn't say anything like that. I am merely pointing out that there are a lot of people with some pretty damn good reasons for not wanting to go into a war. Some of them ain't liberal either. So let's keep the discourse at the level of a reasonable intellectual exchange, rather than start throwing around epithets. This is a serious situation. To dismiss people's concerns about a war as mere liberal knee-jerk reaction is insulting.

And by the way, Afghanistan is a mess. We "liberated" Kabul, and that's about it. Its leader was almost assassinated not long ago. Do you really think much has changed in that country in terms of the tribal factions that were at each other's throats before the Taliban took over?

What makes you think that the war against terrorism has stopped?! And we have not been attacked since 9/11.....what makes you think that our homeland security is not working? Who isn't scared right now?!

The "war against terrorism" as such has not stopped. It's just been overshadowed by our mindless administration's insistence on chasing ghosts in Iraq. They distract us with Saddam because they don't want us to think about the real issues: catching Bin Laden and his band of lunatics, truly portecting the homeland and improving the economy. Perhaps you think masking tape is going to save your butt when the next attack comes. I tend to think otherwise.

As far as Iraq(Hussein) goes, wether he is tied to terrorism or not, and I would tend to believe that he is....Hussein is a bad apple with an even worse track record. He has been in violation of the UN for years. The only reason he is "disarming" now is because the military noose around his neck is tightening.

If being in violation of UN regulations is a reason to attack a country, we should attack ourselves. For years, we refused to pay UN dues, for that matter. Lots of countries, including ourselves and Israel, have violated UN regulations.

Would you consider Hollywood to be a liberal counterpart to Rush or any other conservative talk show host?!

I'm not even sure what that means.

THAT is exactly what got the world in a hell of a lot of trouble in the middle part of the last century.

Tommer made a similar point. What you guys seem to neglect is that Germany was a huge power that had made enormous technological advances. How does that compare to Iraq, a country whose soldiers don't even get enough to eat? A country two thirds of which have been under our control for 12 years? Hussein has been in a fishbowl for 12 years. Do you think we're going to catch Saddam? Or do you think the more likely scenario is that he will disappear and we will never set our eyes on him again? And when that happens, what do you think he will be doing? Wouldn't you rather keep him right where we can see him?

[Rainman]

Carnevaca, these are great points.

I always shake my head when people make these comparisons between Hitler/Germany and Saddam/Iraq. Ain't even close. Hitler was (and I hate to admit it) a smart leader with balls and a powerful country and war machine to back him up. Saddam is a worm with a shattered country that can't even feed itself. He's a nasty character, to be sure, and I'd love to see him deposed in a hurry and his country would be better for it. But he's hardly a threat like Hitler. How many countries is he invading? Who, exactly, is he threatening?

And top of all that, we seem to learn nothing from history. War is so rarely a solution. With Hitler, yeah, it was the only choice. With Saddam? We have lots of choices, and the U.N. is still the way to go, IMHO.

As for him defying the U.N., for God's sake, do some homework on the US-backed slaughter in Nicaragua and El Salvador in the 80s. You'll find no one has given the U.N. the middle finger like the good ol' U.S.A.! Saddam's an amateur when it comes to breaking U.N. sanctions or telling them to go to hell when it's convenient for his country.

[blinker12]

I, too, believe that comparisons between Hitler and Hussein are unfounded.
There is the genocide angle _ Hussein is trying to exterminate a subset of his country's population, just as Hitler tried to exterminate Jews. However, anyone who believes Bush is even partly motivated to go to war with Iraq in order to liberate the Kurds is naive at best.
If humanitarianism were our true motivation, we would have intervened more forcefully by now in places like Rwanda and the Congo, where genocide has also been occurring. But no _ those countries are in Africa, far from any natural resource (i.e., oil) that we can profit from.

[Karen]

Originally posted by jwd
THAT is exactly what got the world in a hell of a lot of trouble in the middle part of the last century.

Originally posted by CarneVaca
Tommer made a similar point. What you guys seem to neglect is that Germany was a huge power that had made enormous technological advances. How does that compare to Iraq, a country whose soldiers don't even get enough to eat? A country two thirds of which have been under our control for 12 years? Hussein has been in a fishbowl for 12 years. Do you think we're going to catch Saddam? Or do you think the more likely scenario is that he will disappear and we will never set our eyes on him again? And when that happens, what do you think he will be doing? Wouldn't you rather keep him right where we can see him?

I don't think that Joe was referring to Germany when he made this statement. Correct me if I'm wrong, but I think it's about Pearl Harbor and the policy that the U.S. had regarding isolationism (Action vs. Inaction).

This thread has taken on a totally different topic. Wouldn't you all agree that this particular debate should have it's own thread in the Chit Chat Forum? It's just not fair to those who want to continue discussing Christopher's "Peacekeeper is the new single...." post. Who wants to start a new thread? Anyone? ;)