If Stevie were to leave [Archive]

DownOnRodeo

01-30-2003, 07:40 PM

With respect ChilliD I dont rate as highly a bunch of top notch musicians as I do a little of top notch musicianship with a little chemistry. There's a 'soul' there with the BN (and McVies) personalities and songwriting and performaces that speaks volumes to many fans. Further, I rate Lindsey as irreplacable.

FiercestCalmSea - it's not unfair to say that about Christine - the last great gift she gave the band and its fans was her ability to leave without being especially noticable by her absence. It's the way she wanted it.

As far as Lindsey's Fleetwood Mac goes, which is the only FM I place a great deal of importance on, Stevie, him, John and Mick is basically the only combination it could have been whittled down to while maintaining an integrity of similar size.

There has been alot said around here lately about how good or bad Stevie's songs are. I'm just wondering, how many of us would be so excited right now if Stevie would have left instead of Christine?

That was one person's remark, nae - you can believe me that's far from any 'general' sentiment!:distress: :rolleyes:

Christine will be missed. I wonder if it will have the same impact as when Lindsey left? I tend to think the Rumors line up is magical, and if one leaves, well...I can still hear you saying you would never break the chain....

Well I've sort of explained this above, but again, my opinion is that Christine has ensured she can leave without the band falling to pieces. And frankly Lindsey, let alone the Lindsey/Stevie combo, is just too damn potent and inventive to not be able to refashion themselves musically and in terms of band dynamics.

THe FM we all love on this board is BN's FM - and with Christine endeavourig to always be 'part of the rhythm section', we can thank her for the time shes given us, wish her happiness, and share her joy in the renewed, reformed BN FM.

seteca

01-30-2003, 09:09 PM

Originally posted by DownOnRodeo
I rate Lindsey as irreplacable

and

Originally posted by DownOnRodeo

As far as Lindsey's Fleetwood Mac goes

I sort of pulled the second quote out of context, but these two quotes sum up my feelings in a way: the pre-B/N line-ups of Fleetwood Mac were good...very good, but the band has reached a point (in fact, that point was reached probably back in the late 70s) where, for better or for worse depending on your own personal opinion, Fleetwood Mac is, for all intents and purposes, "Lindsey Buckingham's Fleetwood Mac". The sound of Fleetwood Mac that the world has become accustomed to as the "signature FM sound" IS the sound that Lindsey produces in the studio - or "works his magic" as we so often say here on The Ledge. If Lindsey left (again), I think the band should not even attempt to make another album, or even tour ever again.
However, even though Stevie does not contribute musically to anywhere near the amount that Lindsey does in the studio (i'm literally talking in terms of no. of hours spent and different tasks that have to be done), she too, is irreplacable, IF the "magic of Fleetwood Mac" is to remain. Her lyrics aren't on the whole as good as they used to be, but she still comes out with some pretty awesome stuff - I think Illume is going to be absolutely amazing, for example. Her very unique voice is instantly recognisable and people will always identify it immediately, even if they are not fans, and say "that's Fleetwood Mac isn't it?", even if they do not know who she is. Her stage presence is extremely warm, and has not faded one bit over the 28 years she's been with the band. She is the "frontman" of Fleetwood Mac. If she leaves, Fleetwood Mac would not have lost even a fraction of what they would have from a purely musical/production point of view if LB was to leave, but the magic she provides/contributes to would be gone, and although I would be VERY keen to see a John, Mick and Lindsey show (in fact, it would be an absolute dream come true!), it would no longer feel like "Fleetwood Mac".
Besides, who's Lindsey going to stare and shout "And if you don't love me, now you will never love me again" at.........?? Mick??? lol!!
If Stevie was to leave, Fleetwood Mac should stop, and Lindsey should go permanently solo. Stevie is irreplacable, as is Lindsey. As much as Christine will be massively missed, her presence in the band was not as critical as Stevie's is.

All this, just my very humble opinion.:)

:wavey: :wavey: :wavey:

CarneVaca

01-30-2003, 10:12 PM

Stevie is the icing of the cake that is Fleetwood Mac. I happen to like the cake better, so I always scrape off the excess icing.

If she left, I would be happy. If she left and Lindsey toured with just John and Mick, I think that would be kick-ass! If she left and Sheryl Crow joined, I would be ecstatic. If Stevie left and Bekka replaced her again, I would jump for joy. (Even though I don't like "Time," I love Bekka's voice, especially in "Nothing withouth You" and "Shaking the Cage.") From a marketing perspective, however, Sheryl Crow would be a better choice.

But let's throw some more "ifs" into the mix here: If Stevie's voice all of a sudden became as good as it once was, I might even close my eyes to the bad lyrics and welcome her presence in the band. If her voice remained as is and her lyrics suddenly took a major jump for the better, I would be very happy too.

DownOnRodeo

01-30-2003, 10:55 PM

Originally posted by seteca
Besides, who's Lindsey going to stare and shout "And if you don't love me, now you will never love me again" at.........?? Mick??? lol!!

roflmao!!! That's a pretty funny image, especially with Mick flashing back his bizarre face expressions !! lol;) :distress: :laugh:

wondergirl9847

01-30-2003, 11:01 PM

If Stevie left instead of Christine, I would STILL be a fan of FM, and would buy their new album AND go see them on tour....because point blank, I am a Lindsey fan first and foremost...if the avatar and LINDSEY RULES below didn't give THAT information away, I don't know how to spell it out any clearer. :laugh:

Anywho...I would still miss Stevie because I like her alot and she is a very interesting presence on stage, her voice is UNMISTAKABLY unique and (most of) her songs are awesome. :nod: Like seteca said, who would Lindsey scream "GO YOUR OWN WAY!!!!" to? :shrug:

If Lindsey left however...I would be EXTREMELY...happy and sad. LOL Here's why...if Lindsey stayed in FM, YAY, if he left to pursue MANY SOLO projects...YAY...either way, I'd be happy, as long as he made RECORDS!! If he left FM to NEVER be heard from again..BOOOOOOOOOOOOOO!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

DownOnRodeo

01-31-2003, 01:07 AM

I actually would have been happier if Lindsey was the one leaving and Christine staying....I would have liked to see him replaced by Bob Welch or any of the post Rumours players.

Well the next time you decide to make a remark like that think long and hard about whether there'd be a Ledge to post those (baseless?) comments on without Lindsey. Goddamn it, he even wrote "The Ledge"!! :o :o :mad: :mad: :distress:

wondergirl9847

01-31-2003, 01:13 AM

That's Adam's opinion...we all have em...I am a HUGE Lindsey fan too, but hey...it's all good...look at my sig!! LOL I love your passion tho for our man, Lindsey! :thumbsup:

LONG LIVE THE LEDGE!! :nod::D

I love Danny and would have LOVED to have had him stick around ALOT longer...but everything happens for a reason and I think it was "Destiny" for Lindsey and Stevie to join FM...just like it was "Destiny" for Peter Green to join Mick and John...and so on and so on....

David

01-31-2003, 01:34 AM

I like the sound of the individual musicians in Fleetwood Mac enough to want to hear them regardless of whom they're currently working with.

I want to hear Mick & John drum because I like their sound & their style, so the front line can evolve. I don't like Bekka's R&B singing style (which I find overwrought), so I don't want to listen to her much. I liked her "Gold Dust Woman" onstage in 1994, but I think what excited me most was the arrangement on that one.

When I want to hear Dave Mason, I'm happy listening to his "Dear Mr. Fantasy" or "Only You Know & I Know" or "We Just Disagree" stuff. Billy always had a funny self-depreciating charm & sang "Go Your Own Way" nicely. I don't follow his solo career. Rick appeals to guitarists & guitar fans, particularly fans of blues & rock. He's a talented player. People gravitate toward different styles, & I always picked up on the nifty pleasures of song-based pop. I wanted to hear parts that blended within a carefully crafted tune rather than brilliant solos or freeform attack.

Bob Welch's style with Fleetwood Mac gives me a very pleasurable buzz. In my mind, his style & Christine's low voice at the time meld into a unified style. The two of them brought sophistication to Fleetwood Mac.

What was the question?

DownOnRodeo

01-31-2003, 02:23 AM

OK OK I took a cold shower - :D sorry Adam, no offense taken I hope :wavey:

I mean, after all..Fleetwood Mac would be....great, um, if Lindsey left and it was ..Bob.... ARGHH I can't say it lol. i can't even picture it - it's like a nightmare!

j/k I respect ur opinion and am not against Bob.. as much as I am anti-anti-Lindsey:distress:

becca

01-31-2003, 02:27 AM

I think it's pretty impossible to not notice if Lindsey Buckingham, Stevie Nicks or Christine McVie are not on a FM album. That's about all anyone can say. they are all very identifiable and strong front 'men'. Stevie did leave and it seems people didn't accept Bekka Bramlett as being as strong. I will sure find it odd to have FM without Christine as she has been on so many of their albums for such a long period, so in that way maybe I will notice her absence more than not having Stevie on one. A lot of the Stevie Nicks stuff that is among her best she did solo, but almost all of McVie's most accomplished songs have has been with FM. I can't agree to say her best have all been with Buckingham though, but he does bring a lot to her material as to Stevie's.

becca

01-31-2003, 02:29 AM

Well, I wonder what Lindsey and Bob Welch would be like together. That could be really interesting!

Johnny Stew

01-31-2003, 02:49 AM

Originally posted by becca
Stevie did leave and it seems people didn't accept Bekka Bramlett as being as strong.
I will sure find it odd to have FM without Christine as she has been on so many of their albums for such a long period.Christine is definitely irreplaceable... which is why I'm glad they didn't try. We'll all miss her, but at least no one will have to struggle to try and fill her shoes.

As to the original topic.... just going by the reception 'Time' received, both before its release and after... I'd say that, for many people, Fleetwood Mac loses some of its spark without Stevie.
Christine contributed some *terrific* songs, and Lindsey made a cameo appearance... but for some fans (definitely not all), it wasn't the same without Stevie.
The same can be said about 'Behind The Mask,' without Lindsey... although it most definitely received a warmer greeting than 'Time' did.

I know I've quoted it before, but I'm always reminded of Entertainment Weekly's rather unfair, but very to-the-point assessment of 'Time'....
"Who gives a tusk about Fleetwood Mac, without Stevie Nicks?"

How ever we may feel as fans, that definitely seemed to sum up the general opinion of the public.

Johnny Stew

stefan

01-31-2003, 04:11 AM

The two albums after TITN to me are totally uninspired and i.m.o. mediocre and both to me don't count as FM albums. Yeah of
course officially they are and I know that a lot of people here on the board disagree with that evaluation. But me and some
friends were fans back in 87 and completely lost interest in the group after that breakup. The sound and the style is a bands
calling card not the name. And as Seteca says- LB made that sound most people (the broader audience) identify the group with. It was their good right to try to go on without LB but it didn`t attract me anymore. The Time thing then... well somebody said sth. about revival bands ;-) Even funny how they tried to replace Stevie with a SN lookalike contest candidate. Hoping not insider and by the way listener and buyer wouldn`t see there's someone new...?

The Stevie leaving thing... That would be the groups end also. No doubt. But I don´t think LB would be part of that 3 man show still naming FM

As rumours were spread the GOS thing would turn into a FM album I was about "oh no don't let it be true". I would rather have had an entire LB CD, some of these songs now get lost...

I certainly also would have been glad to see another FM album as I do now, but in addition not instead of...

As it is now pretty unlikely to get LB music from a solo effort anymore I`m fine with this solution now.

Another thought on Stevies work. I don`t see that her voice is bad or has been bad since 82 like it is often stated here. The sound of her voice makes her uniqueness. That someones voice alters within the years does not mean it gets worse. Singing out of tune is bad, but on the studio versions you really couldn`t say that and I doubt, that this is the case on the recent live shows...? As a huge LB fan I would rather call performances like "here comes the sun" extremely tacky even though he normally is a great live performer.
The only thing about Stevie is... I would appreciate her doing also songs written by somebody else like she did with "Seven wonders". She offers some great material but after 4-5 songs per CD there seems to be a lack of new melodic ideas or writing inspiration. So this would be a good addition.

SeventhWonder

01-31-2003, 04:19 AM

for me personally, if Stevie left the band...I don't think I would be interested in them as much as I am now. Don't get me wrong, I love Lindsey and greatly admire his work, but Stevie was the whole reason that I became a fan of FM. It is because of her that I first noticed FM, and the song Gold Dust Woman is why I went out and bought Rumours last year (my first FM album). So frankly...without Stevie FM would be a bit boring for me.

dan

Phil

01-31-2003, 06:58 AM

Do you mean as lovers?

Phil

01-31-2003, 07:00 AM

(That's in reference to becca's earlier comment concerning Lindsey and Bob Welch.)

CarneVaca

01-31-2003, 09:56 AM

I'm going go jump back in on this one. I want to be fair.

Without Stevie Nicks, singing well or poorly, Fleetwood Mac just isn't the same. She does add an aura of dreamy glamour to the band. That is undeniable. There hasn't been a Fleetwood Mac with Lindsey and no Stevie, so we really don't know what would happen there. There has been a Fleetwood Mac with Stevie and no Lindsey, and it was somewhat successful.

I still thing Sheryl Crow would be a good addition if Stevie were to leave. Sheryl is a very talented lyricist, a multi-instrumentalist and she has a great stage presence. Her sardonic lyrics really speak to me. I still get a kick out of remembering the whole nation singing "All I Wanna Do." I wonder how many people really paid attention to what Sheryl was trying to convey with the song. But no matter, because it was such a catchy tune and it was fun.

Vianna

01-31-2003, 11:31 AM

If Stevie left, I think there would soon be a different fan base. Stevie for whatever reason has always been a big drawing card for the Mac and there are those who only like the band because of Stevie and you'd lose those folks. Therefore her departure would have a serious impact on the band.

As far as I am concerned Lindsey is the irreplaceable one if anyone is. When he's not there the band has a different sound and I just don't like it as well. Not that Rick, Billy and Bob were any slouches on the guitar-it's just that I like Lindsey's sound better.

The only other incarnation I like as much as Lindsey's incarnation is Peter Green's. I'd love to see the two of them play together.

Alison

01-31-2003, 12:14 PM

I think most people are simply not interested in Fleetwood Mac without Stevie or Lindsey. I think that has been proven. It dosn't matter who you put in there, it won't be the same. Thats what the core of the fan base remember. They remember the glory days in the seventies, all the drama and heart ache.
Also Fleetwood Mac will never be hudge again like they where in the seventies, things have changed. They will do well with the new record, but never to the degree of the seventies fame.
For me it was Stevie way back in 76 that brought me in.
Alison

sodascouts

01-31-2003, 01:15 PM

Originally posted by CarneVaca
There hasn't been a Fleetwood Mac with Lindsey and no Stevie, so we really don't know what would happen there.

And there never will be, IMO. I agree with Stefan that Lindsey wouldn't want to be a part of that.

Originally posted by CarneVaca
I still thin[k] Sheryl Crow would be a good addition if Stevie were to leave.

I like Sheryl too, but I would see that as FM trying desperately to maintain itself by hopping on the coattails of an already successful musician. I think it would be lame and sad. And I can only imagine the power struggles she and Lindsey would get into regarding production...Let's just say I doubt she would step back and let Lindsey "work his magic" on her songs.

I like previous incarnations of FM, but once Stevie and Lindsey came, it changed everything. They are now both irreplacable, IMO. Without them, Fleetwood Mac fades into the woodwork as "just another band that used to be popular." With them, they've still got IT.

(This next part is directed generally, and not to a specific poster on this thread) BTW, anyone who is upset because Lindsey "gave up" his solo album as a sacrifice for FM needs to understand that Lindsey's album was NEVER gonna happen otherwise! It's this or nothing, folks! Unless you're content to cling to CD-Rs of demos that haven't been "bastardized" by Fleetwood Mac. ::rolls eyes::

CarneVaca

01-31-2003, 01:21 PM

[QUOTE]Originally posted by sodascouts
I like Sheryl too, but I would see that as FM trying desperately to maintain itself by hopping on the coattails of an already successful musician. I think it would be lame and sad.

Yeah, I know what you mean. It would come across that way. But Sheryl has a huge fan base, so the album would sell.

BTW, anyone who is upset because Lindsey "gave up" his solo album as a sacrifice for FM needs to understand that Lindsey's album was NEVER gonna happen otherwise! It's this or nothing, folks! Unless you're content to cling to CD-Rs of demos that haven't been "bastardized" by Fleetwood Mac. ::rolls eyes::

Again, I concur.

I better cut this out, or people will start thinking I've been possessed by some agreeable, kind-hearted soul.

chiliD

01-31-2003, 01:34 PM

Stevie is NOT the "be all-end all" of Fleetwood Mac, neither is Lindsey...there was a Fleetwood Mac before them, there was a Fleetwood Mac "after" them, whether Mick wants to admit it or not. That they're once again Fleetwood Mac members is a sad, sad reality. Just means that they're nothing without Fleetwood Mac. And, the ultmate in abhorrance is that Mick buys into the fact that he, himself, doesn't believe that Fleetwood Mac could live without Lindsey & Stevie...ultimately, Peter Green did the right thing and got the hell away from Mick and his viewing everything "Fleetwood Mac" through "green" glasses, instead of the music.

For the fame & fortune that coincided with Lindsey & Stevie joining Fleetwood Mac, in a whole plethora of ways it was the worst thing that could've happened to Fleetwood Mac.

Johnny Stew

01-31-2003, 01:41 PM

Originally posted by chiliD
For the fame & fortune that coincided with Lindsey & Stevie joining Fleetwood Mac, in a whole plethora of ways it was the worst thing that could've happened to Fleetwood Mac. It was the best of times... it was the worst of times.

Wow... I really like that! I should write a book, and use that for the first line of the first chapter! :laugh:

Johnny Stew

Mac Fan

01-31-2003, 01:48 PM

I'd really hate it if, Stevie left.(I alos hate the fact that Chris has left)

Bella Figura

01-31-2003, 02:10 PM

I agree with MacFan, at first I was not really that upset when Chris decided to retire, I had always favored Stevie's and some of Lindsey's music over Chris and it was what she wanted and I commende in thought, Mick, John, Stevie and Lindsey for not pressuring her into doing something she didn't want.

but I was really saddened when a new promo pic hit the Internet with just the four, it's posted here in this forum somewhere. It was like it hit home, no Christine sitting towards the left back stage, posed like a queen singing out her ballads. and no Everywhere or Songbird or You Make Loving Fun in concert. no quickie bathroom breaks for me!! It's depressing!!!

I love seeing Stevie solo and I would love to have purchased Lindsey's Gift of Screws and seen him in solo concert but no matter what the debate, the FM stage has always felt a little emptier without former members of the band be it Peter Green, Bob Welch, Rick Vito....and now Christine

I've experienced it first hand before, I was at a Tango concert and Lindsey was missed...

Mac Fan

01-31-2003, 02:21 PM

Originally posted by Bella Figura
I agree with MacFan, at first I was not really that upset when Chris decided to retire, I had always favored Stevie's and some of Lindsey's music over Chris

Same here. I was really shocked when I found out that Chris had left(I think it was before I became a fan)
I have always prefered Lindsey's and stevie's music over Chris, but I love the songs that Chris wrote.

EnchantedStorms

01-31-2003, 04:53 PM

The Rumours line-up definitely has a certain chemistry between the five...and I love them all when they're together. But I don't think I'd be in any hurry to rush out and buy any solo albums by Mick or John or even Christine...although I'd eventually get around to buying Christine's someday, lol. I don't think ANY of the five are replaceable within the group. But solo, I love (most of) Stevie's and (most of) Lindsey's work just as much as I do FM's with the two of them in it. Now, lol, if the two of them were to start work on BuckinghamNicks II.....I think I'd kiss the moon. :D The other incarnations of FM just don't hold the same appeal, for me, although I certainly like a lot of it. I just wouldn't rate it as among my favorite music.

:D That's MY opinion. LOL!

~Angela~:wavey:

sodascouts

01-31-2003, 06:02 PM

Originally posted by EnchantedStorms
I'd be in any hurry to rush out and buy any solo albums by Mick or John

Are you sure? 'Cause if you pay Mick $90 you can get his latest solo "work" sent right to your home with a pair of 3-D glasses and no doubt a humongous close-up of his face....

I mean, come on. He's a drummer, and he's not Don Henley or even Micky Dolenz. :-) He can NOT sing and he's not so hot on songwriting either! I believe Lindsey called 'The ZOO' "embarrassing." I tend to agree.

As for John, I've never heard his "solo" record...and I never will.

Skylark

01-31-2003, 06:42 PM

Hi Nancy!
John Solo? Never knew!!! He is endearing to me
playing acoustic bass and singing harmony with
Lindsey on NGBA and playing for Chris's Songbird!!!
They are spendid together on Cool Water!!! Bye, Sky:)

Phil

01-31-2003, 07:21 PM

Bella Figura, your comment about Christine's departure ("no Everywhere or Songbird or You Make Loving Fun in concert. no quickie bathroom breaks for me!! It's depressing!!!") really made me laugh. Very entertaining!

wetcamelfood

01-31-2003, 07:48 PM

Originally posted by chiliD
Stevie is NOT the "be all-end all" of Fleetwood Mac, neither is Lindsey...there was a Fleetwood Mac before them, there was a Fleetwood Mac "after" them, whether Mick wants to admit it or not. That they're once again Fleetwood Mac members is a sad, sad reality. Just means that they're nothing without Fleetwood Mac. And, the ultmate in abhorrance is that Mick buys into the fact that he, himself, doesn't believe that Fleetwood Mac could live without Lindsey & Stevie...ultimately, Peter Green did the right thing and got the hell away from Mick and his viewing everything "Fleetwood Mac" through "green" glasses, instead of the music.

For the fame & fortune that coincided with Lindsey & Stevie joining Fleetwood Mac, in a whole plethora of ways it was the worst thing that could've happened to Fleetwood Mac.

Amen ChiliD!

Just the usual disclaimer: This is not to say I/we don't like SN an/or LB. It's just our opinion.

I personally thought BTM/Time was a MUCH needed musical breath of fresh air for FM AS A BAND. Yes, I still bought OOTC & enjoyed it and yes I EVEN bought AND ENJOYED & STILL DO ENJOY "Street angel" which is more than (what it seems) many SN fans do (though I know many other SN fans do like it too of course) even though LB & SN were not in FM at that point because I/we do like their music but it really was (and probably still should be) the best thing for them all musically if they were off doing their solo projects and FM had moved forward with other people if the "Time" lineup was not to continue any further. (I also like the Enchanted box, TISL etc. as well, just so that's "covered" too)

Unfortunately though, as Chili says, it's a shame that Mick wants to go back on the philosophy that he USED to GO OUT OF HIS WAY to say which was "all that mattered" to him was to "keep FM together whatever the cost (etc.)" (so to speak). Roughly a decade ago, he said "OK you want to leave, fine, we'll get other people and go on" and they did go on and made some GREAT music which is all that matters (to me). I (personally) don't care what lineup/members "the people remember". The only question I ask myself is: "Do "I" like the music?" if the answer is "Yes" (which it was, and is) then I am happy. That to me, is what constitutes "chemistry" (though I know others here view chemistry as something different and I respect that :) ).

Yes, I will buy the new FM album and yes, I will most likely enjoy it very much but AS AN OVERALL BAND sound, I think they've well covered this ground already. Maybe they will surprise us with something different musically, here's hoping :) but I think it would have to be PRETTY DARN different in order to convince me that they are planning to take a DRASTIC "turn towards left field" and that "it's all about the music" and not trying to "relive glory days".

Roughly ten years later, Mick's way of dealing with it in contrast is "OK you want to leave, fine, I'll ask Peter Green if he wants to reform the other lineup of FM that I'll accept/acknowledge and if he won't do it (which he most likely wouldn't...) then I'll do the odd Zoo/Mojo (or whatever it is that he's calling his "side" band these days) show but will most likely be waiting at home by the phone for your call and when you guys want to get back together and reform as close to the "Rumours" days as we can get it, even if it is another decade before you call, I'll be ready". Which is a sad state as far as what musical creativity FM used to be about AS A BAND (I think).

Now the other usual disclaimer: This is not to say anyone should think like me (and/or ChiliD for that matter) about this, it's JMHO. I/We am/are glad that many of you are happy with the current lineup etc. :)

John

ERigby818

02-01-2003, 01:04 AM

I love Stevie and Lindsey equally. I'd never choose between them. I love their solo music equally, though Stevie has a lot more of it so I probably listen to her music the most. However, what I like even more than their solo work is their work together...and to me, their work together is at its best when it's enriched with the luscious harmonies of Christine (which I'm gonna miss sooooooo much, much more than her songs though I will miss those too), and the unmistakeable Mick percussion and John bass. So I guess to me the Rumours line-up really is IT...I just wasn't crazy about Time and BTM. I do think they are good albums...they just didn't do anything special for me the way nearly everything the Rumours lineup did. What Lindsey's touch did to Stevie's and Christine's music is truly irreplaceable...and so is Stevie's voice. Let's put it this way: I like Time and BTM, but I never listen to them anymore. As for the pre BN stuff, Peter Green and Bob Welch are great talents, and I do listen to their material, but I'll take Lindsey's music over theirs any day.
Philosophically, I can totally respect what ChiliD is saying. But the problem isn't that Stevie and Lindsey aren't anything without FM...Stevie has gone beyond proving herself as a successful accomplished solo artist and I honestly believe Lindsey could have been more (commercially) successful as a solo artist than he was if he really wanted to be. The problem is that Mick fails to acknowledge the post BN lineups, as though he is ashamed. That's just ridiculous!:distress:
-Sonia

Phil

02-01-2003, 04:37 AM

wetcamelfood, I have just read your posting and without wishing to offend you (Jesus I've had to resort to it as well!), it simply reads as one major disclaimer. For fear of incurring the wrath of Christ knows who, you've had to pussyfoot your whole way around whatever it was you wanted to say (ie state your opinion) and ended up with a stifled, longwinded post. I don't mean to single you out - it's just that your post is the most recent example of what I consider to be a case of "conciliation overload"!
If the members of the Ledge Forums truly are a diverse and democratic bunch who are genuinely accepting of each other's differences, then why doesn't everyone feel empowered to speak their minds without fear of retribution or recimination?
That said, I am not suggesting that sensitivity or civility be checked at the door - spewing forth with venomous diatribes against one another or foaming at the mouth with insults a plenty should not be condoned but we do need to remember that we're all consenting adults and capable of taking responsibility for our actions and more importantly, our reactions.
We may disagree with each other concerning all manner of topics but at the end of the day, why should anyone really give a **** whether or not I despise Christine or want to shag Stevie and Lindsey? It's of no consequence to anyone else what I believe just as other members' choices don't affect or impact on me.
I can respect that some of you appreciate the "Behind The Mask" and "Time" albums but I still think they're a load of old crap. Do you know what I mean kids?
What disturbs me of late is that I have noticed a certain Ledge member being scrutinised and maligned for of all things, expressing an honest and forthright opinion. It seems to have escaped the attentions of many that this person has contributed greatly to the various Ledge forums with well written and insightful postings that stimulate thought and generate much commentary. The fact that most of the discussion degenerates into negativity and in some cases, even hositility, is more a reflection of others' inability to comprehend literary submissions and embrace diversity. This vilification of character, to my mind, constitutes offensive behaviour at its most extreme, but hey, what would I know?
So it is with that I would like to extend the spirit of friendship to all of those forum members I have offended to date, including DOR, to whom I apologise unreservedly for my ealier rather uncooth mutterings. I'm sure we'll get along just fine in future, after all, we are both Aussies.
On that note, I will now cast my choices in the "Fave Christine songs" thread to prove that I do possess a certain regard for the ol' broad. See you all there my friends.

DownOnRodeo

02-01-2003, 06:29 AM

So it is with that I would like to extend the spirit of friendship to all of those forum members I have offended to date, including DOR, to whom I apologise unreservedly for my ealier rather uncooth mutterings. I'm sure we'll get along just fine in future, after all, we are both Aussies.
Apology accepted Phil. So you're Aussie? - then I guess that disproves my theory of you being a disgruntled ex of Christine's ... ;)

wetcamelfood

02-01-2003, 08:32 AM

If you check through the calendar at the top of the main ledge board page, you will notice that there ARE many people here that are under 18 years of age and as far as I know that means that we are NOT ALL adults here. I'm sure many "under 18's" here are very mature for there age etc. but if you really wanted to, you could go back through some old posts here and find some people taking offense to, shall we say, "less popular opinions" here and as I have some ledgie friends here that I know would not agree with what I said above, I wanted to make it clear that I wasn't curtly saying "this is the way it is, end of story" as whether it is intentional or not, those kinds of posts (of which you can find as well I'm sure) to me sound very "know it all-ish" which I personally don't like and I don't wish to have my posts come across that way, hence why I respect others opinions and don't call anyone names/pick on anyone (or as you call it "single anyone out") for their opinions differing from mine, but that's just me. I do not tell anyone else how they should have their posts "come across" as they have the right to choose how they want their posts to come across just as you and I do and as I am not breaking any rules (as far as I know) by handling my posts the way that I am, I will continue to post them the way that I have been.

In addition, as I had quoted ChiliD and made many references to what he had to say on the subject and as it appears as though we are in the minority as to how (at least) I (but possibly "we", counting ChiliD as I can't speak for ChiliD of course) feel on the subject, surely it couldn't have been THAT hard to figure out "what my point was" in the midst of my "defensive statements".

With all of this being the case, I don't see why me wanting to be careful and not wanting to upset people that are my friends here (or even those that I am not as familiar with such as yourself) would upset you so much anyways but it obviously has and as you have apologized to another ledgie in your post for whatever you felt as though you needed to apologize for, I wish to do the same to you here, I AM sorry that my being "defensive" (for lack of a better phrase) in my post had/has upset you in some way. :)

Either accept it or don't accept it, the choice is yours, but this is all I wished to do in the first place was state my opinion on the original "leaving" topic at hand which I have done so I will now leave this thread.

John

Mac Fan

02-01-2003, 08:38 AM

Thanks for that post, John.

David

02-01-2003, 12:30 PM

Originally posted by becca
I think it's pretty impossible to not notice if Lindsey Buckingham, Stevie Nicks or Christine McVie are not on a FM album. That's about all anyone can say. they are all very identifiable and strong front 'men'. Stevie did leave and it seems people didn't accept Bekka Bramlett as being as strong. I will sure find it odd to have FM without Christine as she has been on so many of their albums for such a long period, so in that way maybe I will notice her absence more than not having Stevie on one. A lot of the Stevie Nicks stuff that is among her best she did solo, but almost all of McVie's most accomplished songs have has been with FM. I can't agree to say her best have all been with Buckingham though, but he does bring a lot to her material as to Stevie's.
Bekka was pretty widely despised by fans of Stevie & Lindsey, although the general mass of concertgoers probably didn't care about her one way or the other. That was a bad couple of years for all the members of Fleetwood Mac, as well as for the _idea_ of Fleetwood Mac; the public just wasn't hip to it at that point. I sat in those arenas in 1994 watching Stevie sing (quite well, I might add) & I saw half-empty venues. Her popularity waned, Lindsey's popularity practically dissipated, & Fleetwood Mac's popularity was a contradiction in terms.

Most of the time I devote to the Mac these days is spent listening to old concert tapes, which is sort of a blessing. I don't really think any of the Mac people are at the top of their game anymore, so I prefer to buy albums I missed (like the "Jumpin' at Shadows" release from 2002) & replay the distant past, which is when I fixated on all of them & responded the strongest. New albums & tours aren't eliciting much enthusiasm in me, but I'm a lot more sensitive than I used to be toward the hordes of people who _are_ excited. Everyone's got a boat that wants floating, & as far as Fleetwood Mac goes, mine happens to be Christine McVie, about whom I agree with so many great critics over the years who were perspicacious enough to notice her charm & ability & very unusual style. Maybe it's because I listen to so much jazz that I respond to her; she strikes me as the Stan Getz of Fleetwood Mac.

becca

02-01-2003, 11:47 PM

Christine as the Stan Getz of FM is a really interesting idea. :^)

I think Stevie Nicks has done well enough with the solo career that as of Bella Donna's release she really didn't need FM ever again. I don't think you can say the same about any other member. Christine did so-so with two solo albums seperated by fifteen years almost (hard to call it an attempt at a solo career as much as one solo debut before joining FM and one side project because everyone else was doing on), and the rest of the solo outings could be described best as of interest to the existing fan base only or a cult following (Spencer, Kirwan, Tramp, Buckingham, John McVie, Mick Fleetwood). Bob Welch more or less had to have a solo career after leaving and the band Paris bombing, so he had one and produced two hit albums as bumpers relying fairly heavily on FM recorded songs and personelle. Stevie Nicks' audience began with FM but she doesn't need it to get heard or played and hasn't since 1981. I can't really say the same for the others. I never heard a Buckingham solo song played anywhere ever on any mass medium, or even any of his Tusk album tracks except for seeing the title track video once in a blue moon.

I think it can still be Fleetwood Mac though without anyone but Fleetwood and McVie. Christine having been on the most albums next to them makes her a little less dispensable.

EnchantedStorms

02-02-2003, 02:57 AM

Originally posted by sodascouts
Are you sure? 'Cause if you pay Mick $90 you can get his latest solo "work" sent right to your home with a pair of 3-D glasses and no doubt a humongous close-up of his face....

I mean, come on. He's a drummer, and he's not Don Henley or even Micky Dolenz. :-) He can NOT sing and he's not so hot on songwriting either! I believe Lindsey called 'The ZOO' "embarrassing." I tend to agree.

As for John, I've never heard his "solo" record...and I never will.

LOL, Nancy.....I said I *DON'T* think I'd be in any hurry to buy them. In fact, on second thought....I KNOW I wouldn't. :laugh:

~Angela~:wavey:

jwd

02-02-2003, 12:48 PM

Well holy **** I think I'd cry my eyes out :distress: but on the positive side it would give her more time for her solo career and to work with the likes of Sheryl Crow and John Shanks. As far as FM goes....well I think Mick could DRUM up a replacement! :laugh:

Joe :wavey:

Nicks Fan

02-02-2003, 09:46 PM

I pondered what to say about this post so here goes.

Lindsey is a great guitar player. He is a maniac on stage.
Stevie is a great singer and seems to get better with age.
John bass is killer. Nuff Said.
Mick is an awesome drummer. I think though he had foolishy belived that the band could go on without key players (Don't get me wrong I did Enjoy BTM and Time) I think Mick would do just about anything to keep his band alive no matter how many people were /were not in the bands lineup.

Christine: Well her voice and songwriting skills make it a tough to anticipate a new album knowing that she will be missing from the lineup.

I guess we will just have accept the fact that the band is functioning without Chris.

seteca

02-02-2003, 10:30 PM

Originally posted by Nicks Fan
Lindsey is a great guitar player. He is a maniac on stage.
Stevie is a great singer and seems to get better with age.
John bass is killer. Nuff Said

I'm sure you didn't intend it but that part of your post actually makes a really awesome poem!lol!:)

:wavey: :wavey: :wavey:

chiliD

02-02-2003, 11:23 PM

Originally posted by Nicks Fan
I guess we will just have accept the fact that the band is functioning without ________ (insert name from below in blank)

And that's what I've been saying since 1970.

PETER GREEN (1970)
JEREMY SPENCER (1971)
DANNY KIRWAN (1972)
BOB WELCH (1974)
LINDSEY BUCKINGHAM (1987)
RICK VITO (1990)
BILLY BURNETTE (1995)
STEVIE NICKS (1990)
CHRISTINE McVIE (2002)

I cannot stress enough how personnel changes in Fleetwood Mac are so damned commonplace that somebody coming or going is really a non-issue for me. The only "issue" is that is just seemed like a big backward leap when they reformed an old incarnation rather than moving forward with "new blood". And, so I guess my own motto is kind of paraphrased from the quoted line above as:

I guess I will just have accept the fact that the band IS functioning. :laugh:

As I posted on another board a couple of years ago:

Fleetwood Mac is dead; long live Fleetwood Mac

ERigby818

02-03-2003, 02:25 AM

...I think that would be interesting. I was just listening to that Tonight Show performance of Sheryl Crowe's C'mon c'mon with Natlaie Maines and Stevie, and I was thinking, if these three made and album together, or maybe even with more female singer-songwriters, I'd totally run out and get it (as long as Sheryl didn't dominate). I would totally dig that, like Stevie joining a female Traveling Wilburys (whom I love, btw) with other women who are succesful artists in their own right and share a somewhat similar style or at least share an admiration for Stevie. She'd be like the Roy Orbison of the Wilburys, the one from the older generation.
What if Lindsey joined another band? I'd run out and buy a cd of him working his magic on someone else's material. I'd eat it up even if he just produced some band as a side project...that's what Chris Stein of Blondie did for years after Blondie's breakup (before their 2000 reunion) ...he was the brains behind Blondie and he produced several bands (I can't remember any of their names) and played guitar on their albums. I would dig it if Lindsey did that. Debbie Harry joined a jazz band.
I mean, doesn't Mick apparently have another band, Mojo?
I love Stevie and Lindseys solo work and love their Mac work even more but I'm all in favor of artists who do well in bands and solo to experiment with other folks...Kinda like Crosby Stills Nash and Young, who were all in successful bands (Byrds, Buffalo Springfield, Hollies) before.
I'd love to hear if anyone likes (or doesn't like) this idea.
-Sonia